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Steve-o
09-06-08, 10:11 AM
After last weeks performance the Grand Slam champions Wales have alot to prove. The Springboks looked very organised and played effective rugby against their out-classed opponents, Wales.

Having a new coaching staff, 10 changes to the team that won the WC last year and reverting back to the 'old' rules for the 1st time this year, the Boks looked unaffected and stood up the verbal threats coming from the Welsh camp with a convincing 26 point victory on Saturday, 43-17.

The general concensus across Welsh and Saffa blogs, forums and newspapers were that the Boks simply looked stronger, faster, fitter and more 'streetwise'. For the first time in his coaching term with Wales people are doubting Gatland's tactics, doubting the Welsh team, and NH rugby in general. The Boks had an average on 21 international caps, while Wales had an average of 38.

The difference is this...



http://www.keo.co.za/2008/06/09/southern-h...e-to-hold-sway/ (http://www.keo.co.za/2008/06/09/southern-hemisphere-to-hold-sway/)




The Springboks’ decimation of the Welsh at the breakdown proved why the three Sanzar sides are light years ahead of their northern counterparts.

A 26-point victory is a pleasing start to a new era, but Peter de Villiers and his assistants will be particularly chuffed with the Boks’ performance at the breakdown. It hardly mattered that the hosts were bullied in the scrums. The real fight was won at the collisions where the Dragons were a few weight classes shy of the South Africans.

Wales coach Warren Gatland admitted as much after the game. Gatland is demanding a bigger effort in the second Test, but effort is not going to be decisive. The Boks are coming off another taxing Super Rugby season where the battle at the breakdown is more intense than in any other regional competition in the world. The Welsh are not exposed to this sort of brand in the European competitions, and this is why they struggled to make any impression at the tackle point last Saturday.

Any coach will tell you that the breakdown is the most important facet of the game. The number of scrums and line-outs pale in comparison to the number of rucks. The Wallabies don’t usually possess a strong scrum, but their abilities at the breakdown ensure they remain competitive.

Wales battled to match the physicality of the South Africans in Bloemfontein. On defence, they did their best to spoil, but ineffectively so. On attack, they conceded too many turnovers. This is why their overall effort appeared disjointed - they were never able to build any momentum.

The Boks were exactly the opposite, outmuscling the Welsh at the point of contact. Luke Watson was influential with his attack on the ball carrier which yielded several turnovers. Juan Smith and Pierre Spies were prominent in driving over the advantage line, as were the tight forwards. As well drilled as the Welsh defence was, the Celtics just didn’t have the strength nor the technique to quell the incessant South African surge.

The Boks were successful in France last year because of their superiority in the collisions. Reverting back to the old laws for this last week’s fixture saw a similar approach. The Boks neglected to spin it wide because they knew the Welsh were going to be more vulnerable closer to the point of contact. The Welsh backline has some big defenders who snuffed out many an attack last Saturday. But the Boks used their wings sparingly, a strategy, as backward as it sounds, that paid dividends.

Although this match was played under the old laws, the influence of the ELVs was patent. The Boks looked the far fitter side, and while it wasn’t the most expansive display, the hosts tried to keep the ball alive in contact. Given their physical dominance, they may well have rumbled up the middle for eighty minutes, but there was a significant difference in how the big men looked to offload after being hit in a tackle.

The Boks are already preparing for the switch back to the ELVs following the 21 June Test against Italy. The ELVs will go global at the end of the year and don’t be surprised if the northern nations battle to adapt. Given that European competitions are far less intense in terms of speed and physicality at the breakdown, it follows that the respective Test sides will also struggle to compete against South Africa, New Zealand and Australia when the three teams tour the UK in November.

[/b]



People can call this arrogant or whatever, you can sugar coat these facts as much as you want but much was said on the field on Saturday and this will be shown again in the game this weekend.



Personally I'm looking forward to the game this weeked, as it's anyone's guess (AGAIN) what team PdV will possibly play. My bet is he'll probably play the strongest possible side to get some combinations and partnerships going.



My pick:

15 - Jantjies

14 - Chavhanga

13 - Steyn

12 - De Villiers

11 - Habana

10 - Grant/James

9 - Januarie

8 - Kankowski

7 - Smith

6 - Watson

5 - Matfield

4 - Botha

3 - BJ Botha

2 - Smit

1 - van der Linde



16 - du Plessis

17 - BEAST!!!

18 - Rossouw

19 - Bekker

20 - Pienaar

21 - Ndungane

22 - Grant/James



Admitedly this isn't the strongest 15 but I think he'll probably mix it up again.

Not too sure about who the replacement backs are gonna be. I wish Bobo wasn't in the squad... he can only cover 13, and it not even that good at that. If Percy doesn't start he won't be on the bench IMO.

sanzar
09-06-08, 10:17 AM
Yeah, I was as surprised as anyone with last weeks result. Wales had a few missing, sure, but the boks were no better off with the massive changes in player and management staff since the RWC and the sudden reversion to the old rules. Really, apart from the home ground advantage (and crowd wise this was one of the least intimidating Bok crowds I've ever seen - with barely anyone making a sound most of the match) Wales really had it all in their favour. They really need to stand up this week if they want any sort of recognition for the 6 nations triumph.

Jer1cho
09-06-08, 10:20 AM
I think the 15 you chose is damn strong... That is a tri-nations winning team. I dare to even say the team that will finally whoop New Zealand in their own back yard.... (just add Spies)

Anyway. Wales at Loftus, against on form Boks, with a win under the belt...

South Africa 55
Wales 13

silent_shadow
09-06-08, 10:47 AM
I'm sure Pienaar won't be there. Bolla, like it or not, played well and probably deserves another chance. Why not Spies ahead of Rossouw? Steyn starting ahead of Jacobs I can't imagine either with Jacobs playing well. Maybe Grant to sit out? But he deserves a spot because of Super 14 form I guess. In any case I won't want to be the coaching team...
I have a feeling the scores will be similar this week. Both teams' attack and defense will improve and it'll probably be a more exciting game with a good crowd in.
Hopefully our wings will get more of the ball this game.

nicolaas777
09-06-08, 10:50 AM
hey guys...im new here :P

my xv would be:

15 jantjies
14 chavanga
13 steyn
12 de villiers
11 habana (duh)
10 james
9 januarie

8 spies
7 smith
6 watson
5 matfield
4 botha
3 beast
2 smit
1 steenkamp

16 du plessis
17 van der linde
18 bekker
19 kankowski
20 pienaar
21 grant
22 erm...probably percy

i think it's a pretty damn good team :)

candybum
09-06-08, 10:52 AM
To me its hard to see any changes because they all played pretty well aye, like it would be stink dropping them. In saying that i love to see Steyn out there because he's the mantis lol

Steve-o
09-06-08, 11:25 AM
I'm sure Pienaar won't be there. Bolla, like it or not, played well and probably deserves another chance. Why not Spies ahead of Rossouw? Steyn starting ahead of Jacobs I can't imagine either with Jacobs playing well. Maybe Grant to sit out? But he deserves a spot because of Super 14 form I guess. In any case I won't want to be the coaching team...
I have a feeling the scores will be similar this week. Both teams' attack and defense will improve and it'll probably be a more exciting game with a good crowd in.
Hopefully our wings will get more of the ball this game. [/b]

Thing about Pienaar is that he can play 9, 10 or 15; and Conradie did play well but Pienaar is a class above him. Lets be honest about Conradie here, I'm sure the coach was pleased with his performance but he's still a 30 year man with 11 caps to his name. He's not a future prospect at all, and will be humbled by Oz and NZ imo.

I chose Rossouw because he can cover 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; and to be honest I haven't seen Spies play 6 or 7, so he is considered a specialist 8th man in this line up. Not saying he can't play flank, just never seen him there. I would rather have Wickus on than Rossouw but with that 3 year contract in England he fell out of a Bok spot. And in some ways I enjoy the physicality Rossouw brings, bit of a meat head but he does the bashing up stuff well.

Lets also be honest about Jacobs vs Steyn. Jacobs is playing the best rugby of his life at 29 or 30 (?) and has lost a yard of pace. Steyn won the most promising young player award in 2007, he has so much talent. He needs game time though, and this game is the last competitive game we got before the Tri-Nations.

Macsen
09-06-08, 12:22 PM
* tumbleweeds of silence for the Welsh contingent *

I hope to see a much improved Welsh performance next Sat. Although SH rugby is clearly superior, I don't think the result should be interpreted as indicative of a huge divide between NH and SH rugby. Truth is that if Wales had turned in a performance like that at the Six Nations we would have lost to Scotland or Italy. There was a total lack of discipline and by the time we found our feet we were already 10+ points behind. Fitness should also be a concern - Wales did well in the Six Nations by outlasting the other team in the second half. I don't know if it was the altitude or what but they looked out on their feet at the end and let in some soft tries. Time to invest in a training base atop Mt Snowdon maybe.

Cymro
09-06-08, 12:25 PM
Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!

BLR
09-06-08, 12:32 PM
Although SH rugby is clearly superior, I don't think the result should be interpreted as indicative of a huge divide between NH and SH rugby.[/b]
Those two parts of the sentence are largely at odds with each other.

Macsen
09-06-08, 12:34 PM
Those two parts of the sentence are largely at odds with each other. [/b]
How? I'm saying SH is better, but not 26 points better. :)

Bull
09-06-08, 12:42 PM
Really, apart from the home ground advantage (and crowd wise this was one of the least intimidating Bok crowds I've ever seen - with barely anyone making a sound most of the match) Wales really had it all in their favour.[/b]

Agreed the crowd as well as the attendance was disappointing but I expect that to be different this coming Saturday. I think there will be at least 40000 people if not a sell out and the Loftus crowd is one of the loudest most intimidating out there.

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 12:42 PM
Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. :P

Jer1cho
09-06-08, 01:10 PM
+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. tongue.gif
[/b]

Well, we managed 43 last week, add the confidence, add Loftus, at least another 12 points worth... :P

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 01:15 PM
Haven't you heard? It's become a well known fact that Gatland was just lulling zee Boks into a false sense of security, so come the second test, we'll obliterate you with the flick of an eyebrow...a MAGIC one that is! :mellow:

D:

Wales 20 - SA 32

Cymro
09-06-08, 01:17 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. :P [/b][/quote]

Ok we can let Stoddart come off the bench and ruin the game again <_<

BLR
09-06-08, 01:28 PM
<div class='quotemain'>Those two parts of the sentence are largely at odds with each other. [/b]
How? I&#39;m saying SH is better, but not 26 points better. :)
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, the 6 nations champions against a Bok team formulated from some extremely underperforming South African Super 14 teams while thier national system seems to not be in the best shape in regards to the politics in thier country...it should have been far more evenly matched but it shows the difference in class between the two different teams....

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 01:29 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. :P [/b][/quote]

Ok we can let Stoddart come off the bench and ruin the game again <_<
[/b][/quote]
Oh, did you mean off the bench? Fair enough then.

Steve-o
09-06-08, 02:06 PM
Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
I&#39;ll you give you Welsh boys one thing, you&#39;re very optimistic.
Why do you guys lambast over Edwards and Gatland so much? Throw me concerts and give them awards. They still have much to prove
So much praise is not very constructive

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 02:14 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
I&#39;ll you give you Welsh boys one thing, you&#39;re very optimistic.
Why do you guys lambast over Edwards and Gatland so much? Throw me concerts and give them awards. They still have much to prove
So much praise is not very constructive
[/b][/quote]
How many coaching set-ups in the World would have taken Wales from a WC pool-stage exit to a Grand Slam? None bar Edwards and Gatland in World rugby at the moment. Besides, a loss to the World Champions, in their own back yard, missing many key players, having to get used to the altitude and conditions and having to get used to the Ed+Gat style of play after the majority of this Welsh squad went back to Lyn Jones (he&#39;s the epitomy of a **** coach, so you know) at the Ospreys doesn&#39;t change that much. You guys seem to be taking it way overboard as if Wales are suddenly nobody&#39;s again. If you come to Cardiff in the Autumn and beat our full strength side, then I&#39;ll admit I was wrong, but until then...

Cymro
09-06-08, 02:18 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
Good thing too. If James started, Habana would make mincemeat of him, and Mark Jones did a good job containing him on Saturday, so it would be pretty stupid to let him start.

+ Jericho, 55 points? LULZ, not likely. :P [/b][/quote]

Ok we can let Stoddart come off the bench and ruin the game again <_<
[/b][/quote]
Oh, did you mean off the bench? Fair enough then. [/b][/quote]

Spot on!

shazbooger
09-06-08, 03:39 PM
All this talk of lack of dicipline and half strength sides is a bit dull. The penalties come from pressure, the Welsh always had a lightweight pack but its one thats good enough to survive against the opposition in the North. Down South its a different ball game.

The Munster pack struggled to Match the AB&#39;s in and around the fringes and you guys experience the same a few hours later but you didnt cope with it as well and the conditions didnt allow you to hide.

The odd break aside you were outclassed but before I dismiss the Welsh entirely I keep remembering how dangerous they are with quick ball. That is the key, if you get quick ball and plenty of it, it will be a fun game for the neutral. I just dont think your physical enough to get that quick ball you need.

Steve-o
09-06-08, 03:43 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
I&#39;ll you give you Welsh boys one thing, you&#39;re very optimistic.
Why do you guys lambast over Edwards and Gatland so much? Throw me concerts and give them awards. They still have much to prove
So much praise is not very constructive
[/b][/quote]
How many coaching set-ups in the World would have taken Wales from a WC pool-stage exit to a Grand Slam? None bar Edwards and Gatland in World rugby at the moment. Besides, a loss to the World Champions, in their own back yard, missing many key players, having to get used to the altitude and conditions and having to get used to the Ed+Gat style of play after the majority of this Welsh squad went back to Lyn Jones (he&#39;s the epitomy of a **** coach, so you know) at the Ospreys doesn&#39;t change that much. You guys seem to be taking it way overboard as if Wales are suddenly nobody&#39;s again. If you come to Cardiff in the Autumn and beat our full strength side, then I&#39;ll admit I was wrong, but until then... [/b][/quote]

Everybody this side of Texas is took the 6N grand slam victory with a big grain of salt. You guys went crazy when you beat the 6N teams (who were plagued with injury problems, you can&#39;t deny that one) but when you&#39;s get your ass handed to you when you&#39;re the one&#39;s suffering from injuries you guys act surprised and start turning to all sorts of excuses. Much the same excuses you guys didn&#39;t have much sympathy for during the other teams 6N&#39;s campaign. And I&#39;m sure nobody in SA is giving the Welsh any sympathy because we had just as many obstacles to face (*refer to the 1st post of this thread*).

Edwards had hordes of male groupie after the 6N as defense was your strong point but as soon as Wales faced a team that had some form of attacking prowess, he says the Welsh players are "a bit rusty". Everybody was going on how Gatland said that the Welsh boys were gonna take the Boks on physically, and everybody ate that one up to.. Sorry but there are quite a few coaches above Gatland and especially Edwards, they both did a great job at the Wasps but still have much to prove on the international stage.

Maybe it&#39;s me but I&#39;ve never heard or seen a nation go so &#39;gaga&#39; over a coach before after not proving much.

But that&#39;s just &#39;ol cynical me talking

Macsen
09-06-08, 03:54 PM
Point taken Steve-o, but maybe you should listen to your own advice. We went &#39;gaga&#39; after five victories, you&#39;re going &#39;gaga&#39; after one. :P

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 04:00 PM
Everybody this side of Texas is took the 6N grand slam victory with a big grain of salt. You guys went crazy when you beat the 6N teams (who were plagued with injury problems, you can&#39;t deny that one) but when you&#39;s get your ass handed to you when you&#39;re the one&#39;s suffering from injuries you guys act surprised and start turning to all sorts of excuses. Much the same excuses you guys didn&#39;t have much sympathy for during the other teams 6N&#39;s campaign. And I&#39;m sure nobody in SA is giving the Welsh any sympathy because we had just as many obstacles to face (*refer to the 1st post of this thread*).

Edwards had hordes of male groupie after the 6N as defense was your strong point but as soon as Wales faced a team that had some form of attacking prowess, he says the Welsh players are "a bit rusty". Everybody was going on how Gatland said that the Welsh boys were gonna take the Boks on physically, and everybody ate that one up to.. Sorry but there are quite a few coaches above Gatland and especially Edwards, they both did a great job at the Wasps but still have much to prove on the international stage.

Maybe it&#39;s me but I&#39;ve never heard or seen a nation go so &#39;gaga&#39; over a coach before after not proving much.

But that&#39;s just &#39;ol cynical me talking
[/b]
Did you even watch the 6N? Tell me which teams that we beat were "plagued with injury problems", honestly, go ahead. That said, the rest of your post regarding Wales&#39; injury problems is of little relevance because you got the first part wrong. I don&#39;t think we played a 6N team that was "plagued with injury problems". Even France, who had been experimenting throughout the 6N, decided to play a full-strength side for the final game and got stuffed after some pretty uninspiring stuff from their first team.
Like I said, the Edwards-Gatland style of play had been squeezed out of the squad over the last few months, especially the Ospreys contingent (not Shane though, who is still a little legend) who had to suffer under Lyn Jones&#39; reign (or should that be &#39;rain&#39;? of ****). The defence definately wasn&#39;t helped by this, or the fact the breakdown was relentlessly whored by the Saffa&#39;s far better forwards and our pathetic midfield was cut to pieces on a number of occasions (Parker can die). Like I said, if you beat us convincingly next week, I&#39;ll concede and have no problems with your comments; only with Wales. I don&#39;t think it (a 30+ pt mauling) will happen, but I&#39;m sure they&#39;ll be prepared to prove me wrong. B)

Oh, right, and onto the coaches...Shaun Edwards joined Wales and we started off against a crap England team, conceding one try only down to the fact they weren&#39;t clinical. After a fresh start two weeks ago under Gatland and Shaun, we came up against the World Champions (apparantly suffering due to injuries like us, although the fact is their replacements are better than Wales&#39; (which doesn&#39;t bode well for our depth)), who stuffed us. Repeating myself now: come next week: you stuff us again, then I&#39;ll admit that the SH is in fact ahead of the NH and that Wales aren&#39;t as good as I think (yet).
Now, tell me: Who on Earth could do to Wales what Gatland and Edwards did?

Cymro
09-06-08, 04:05 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Wales will give a bigger and better performance! Edwards and Gatland will ensure this! I reckon a SA victory but within 10 points with Wales giving a good account for themselves!

Gatland needs to bring in Delve for Dafydd Jones and Fury for Cooper! Would like to see Tom James get a run but it wont happen!
[/b]
I&#39;ll you give you Welsh boys one thing, you&#39;re very optimistic.
Why do you guys lambast over Edwards and Gatland so much? Throw me concerts and give them awards. They still have much to prove
So much praise is not very constructive
[/b][/quote]
How many coaching set-ups in the World would have taken Wales from a WC pool-stage exit to a Grand Slam? None bar Edwards and Gatland in World rugby at the moment. Besides, a loss to the World Champions, in their own back yard, missing many key players, having to get used to the altitude and conditions and having to get used to the Ed+Gat style of play after the majority of this Welsh squad went back to Lyn Jones (he&#39;s the epitomy of a **** coach, so you know) at the Ospreys doesn&#39;t change that much. You guys seem to be taking it way overboard as if Wales are suddenly nobody&#39;s again. If you come to Cardiff in the Autumn and beat our full strength side, then I&#39;ll admit I was wrong, but until then... [/b][/quote]

Everybody this side of Texas is took the 6N grand slam victory with a big grain of salt. You guys went crazy when you beat the 6N teams (who were plagued with injury problems, you can&#39;t deny that one) but when you&#39;s get your ass handed to you when you&#39;re the one&#39;s suffering from injuries you guys act surprised and start turning to all sorts of excuses. Much the same excuses you guys didn&#39;t have much sympathy for during the other teams 6N&#39;s campaign. And I&#39;m sure nobody in SA is giving the Welsh any sympathy because we had just as many obstacles to face (*refer to the 1st post of this thread*).

Edwards had hordes of male groupie after the 6N as defense was your strong point but as soon as Wales faced a team that had some form of attacking prowess, he says the Welsh players are "a bit rusty". Everybody was going on how Gatland said that the Welsh boys were gonna take the Boks on physically, and everybody ate that one up to.. Sorry but there are quite a few coaches above Gatland and especially Edwards, they both did a great job at the Wasps but still have much to prove on the international stage.

Maybe it&#39;s me but I&#39;ve never heard or seen a nation go so &#39;gaga&#39; over a coach before after not proving much.

But that&#39;s just &#39;ol cynical me talking

[/b][/quote]

Urm .... :lol2tn:
Are we looking for sympathy? Hell no but you seem to think so ...

I dont think any of &#39;Us Welsh&#39; have denied anything from the South Africa win! Of course the side is affected by injuries! Gavin Henson who is the pinical player in the defence is injured, this guy commands the defence line. Lee Byrne who is our only decent fullback is missing through injury, our icon Nugget is injured. Of course injuries affect a team and its nature. Wales dont have the depth and strength that many of the sides in the world have. Take SA for instance, you loose Du Preez and Burger but you have someone equal as good to replace them! Im not making excuses and far from it, we played poorly and end of and South Africa deserved the win.

Regarding the coaches, I think what they have acheived with Wales is pretty amazing. To take a squad not long before a 6 Nations campaign, get them to gel and play a certain style of rugby is pretty darn good. Edwards has installed the same defence that brought Wasps the Guniess Prem title this season, and he did the job for Wales during the 6 Nations. But of course the defence was pretty non existent in the game and especially at the breakdown!

Gatland major fault was starting Cooper, Dafydd Jones and Sonny Parker. But then again with the &#39;vast&#39; resource of players we have here in Wales had no choice. Time after Time, SA backs were just runnign through the welsh backs like a hot knife through butter, the main problem? Parker and his mind which lead to others having to attempt to cover up his mistakes in the midfield!

Wales are going to struggle unless they change as I ahve said before, if Gatland sticks with the same side then it will be a similar scoreline, but if he rings the correct changes then it may be a different game, which will still lead to a Boks victory!

"Everybody was going on how Gatland said that the Welsh boys were gonna take the Boks on physically, and everybody ate that one up to"

Sorry but that is quite poor to bring that out, SA are big boys who will bully, they did the job in the game and Wales had to man up to them but failed and failed miserably. Now to go on and say we ate it up is not really true at all. So what was Gatland meant to say, lads we dont need to take the boks on physically we can just imagine it. Something that the great Steve Black would have said!

But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! I also dont think any of us are saying that South Africa did not deserve a win, far from it! South Africa came, saw and conqured!

Steve-o
09-06-08, 05:16 PM
Looks like the Welsh brigade in out to get me again... :lol:

Cymro




Urm .... :lol2tn:
Are we looking for sympathy? Hell no but you seem to think so ...

I dont think any of &#39;Us Welsh&#39; have denied anything from the South Africa win! Of course the side is affected by injuries! Gavin Henson who is the pinical player in the defence is injured, this guy commands the defence line. Lee Byrne who is our only decent fullback is missing through injury, our icon Nugget is injured. Of course injuries affect a team and its nature. Wales dont have the depth and strength that many of the sides in the world have. Take SA for instance, you loose Du Preez and Burger but you have someone equal as good to replace them! Im not making excuses and far from it, we played poorly and end of and South Africa deserved the win.

[/b]

So, you&#39;re telling me that Du Preez and Conradie are on the same level (skill, vision, strength, passing, pace, kicking)? God help you.. Conradie is EASILY the 5th choice scrummie in SA, include Claasens (Bath) & de Kock (Sarries), and you looking at the 7th choice scrummie right there aye.




Regarding the coaches, I think what they have acheived with Wales is pretty amazing. To take a squad not long before a 6 Nations campaign, get them to gel and play a certain style of rugby is pretty darn good. Edwards has installed the same defence that brought Wasps the Guniess Prem title this season, and he did the job for Wales during the 6 Nations. But of course the defence was pretty non existent in the game and especially at the breakdown!
[/b]

Yes good job, like I said already they did a "great job" (direct quote there) at Wasps. He still hasn&#39;t done enough on the international stage to get all these rave reviews, concerts and awards IMO.





Gatland major fault was starting Cooper, Dafydd Jones and Sonny Parker. But then again with the &#39;vast&#39; resource of players we have here in Wales had no choice. Time after Time, SA backs were just runnign through the welsh backs like a hot knife through butter, the main problem? Parker and his mind which lead to others having to attempt to cover up his mistakes in the midfield!

Wales are going to struggle unless they change as I ahve said before, if Gatland sticks with the same side then it will be a similar scoreline, but if he rings the correct changes then it may be a different game, which will still lead to a Boks victory!

"Everybody was going on how Gatland said that the Welsh boys were gonna take the Boks on physically, and everybody ate that one up to"

Sorry but that is quite poor to bring that out, SA are big boys who will bully, they did the job in the game and Wales had to man up to them but failed and failed miserably. Now to go on and say we ate it up is not really true at all. So what was Gatland meant to say, lads we dont need to take the boks on physically we can just imagine it. Something that the great Steve Black would have said!
[/b]

Oh come on, Cymro where were you when all those pre-match comments were flying around? Comments from the Welsh players and coaching staff, and members on this forum. About how this team won&#39;t get bullied like in previous years, etc, putting out your biggest back row ever and making it obviously clear. Even Gatland and Jones (he&#39;s the captain right?) said that they were embarressed that they talk up their physical attributes and didn&#39;t back them up on the field. Smit even thanked the Welsh for getting his "boys" all rallied up with the constant verbal challenges.





But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! I also dont think any of us are saying that South Africa did not deserve a win, far from it! South Africa came, saw and conqured!

[/b]

Really? Go and read the thread that covered last weeks game, members from other NH countries have pointed it out as well (one on this very thread!).



Sir. Speedy




Did you even watch the 6N? Tell me which teams that we beat were "plagued with injury problems", honestly, go ahead. That said, the rest of your post regarding Wales&#39; injury problems is of little relevance because you got the first part wrong. I don&#39;t think we played a 6N team that was "plagued with injury problems". Even France, who had been experimenting throughout the 6N, decided to play a full-strength side for the final game and got stuffed after some pretty uninspiring stuff from their first team.
Like I said, the Edwards-Gatland style of play had been squeezed out of the squad over the last few months, especially the Ospreys contingent (not Shane though, who is still a little legend) who had to suffer under Lyn Jones&#39; reign (or should that be &#39;rain&#39;? of ****). The defence definately wasn&#39;t helped by this, or the fact the breakdown was relentlessly whored by the Saffa&#39;s far better forwards and our pathetic midfield was cut to pieces on a number of occasions (Parker can die). Like I said, if you beat us convincingly next week, I&#39;ll concede and have no problems with your comments; only with Wales. I don&#39;t think it (a 30+ pt mauling) will happen, but I&#39;m sure they&#39;ll be prepared to prove me wrong. B)
[/b]

As far as I know England and Italy had pretty extensive injury lists, the other teams lesser so who didn&#39;t help their cause as, like you said, were pretty uninspiring. Many agree it was a crap 6N, and Wales were good but untested.
But again you&#39;re not looking at the Bok side of things. PdV (expansive and more linking between backs and forwards in open play) plays a much different style then Jake White (set piece based, big forwards), some players only had a week and a half to slot in as they were in Australia playing in the S14 semi. But you didn&#39;t hear that one aye?






Oh, right, and onto the coaches...Shaun Edwards joined Wales and we started off against a crap England team, conceding one try only down to the fact they weren&#39;t clinical. After a fresh start two weeks ago under Gatland and Shaun, we came up against the World Champions (apparantly suffering due to injuries like us, although the fact is their replacements are better than Wales&#39; (which doesn&#39;t bode well for our depth)), who stuffed us. Repeating myself now: come next week: you stuff us again, then I&#39;ll admit that the SH is in fact ahead of the NH and that Wales aren&#39;t as good as I think (yet).
Now, tell me: Who on Earth could do to Wales what Gatland and Edwards did?

[/b]
Do what? Guide a non-injury affected team in a poor 6N with a fairly simple tactics (strong defense, ball retention) against teams that had no attacking form? 3 coaches form SA spring to mind: Heyneke Meyer, Jake White & Nick Mallett.

Look I never doubt what Gatland did, he was lucky in some ways, any coach will take that, but SERIOUSLY he hasn&#39;t done enough on the international stage yet to have all this praise heaped on him all the time. You guys make it sound like these 2 guys have the perfect tactics, coaching style, and generally don&#39;t doubt what they say. IMO that&#39;s silly, but you guys do what you want because from reading other forums and blogs it seems the whole nation is infatuated with him because he brought you some kind of success.



Macsen




Point taken Steve-o, but maybe you should listen to your own advice. We went &#39;gaga&#39; after five victories, you&#39;re going &#39;gaga&#39; after one.

[/b]

Weak attempt mate. Quote me where I go &#39;gaga&#39; over De Villiers, Gold and Muir. No concerts for them!!!

Cymro
09-06-08, 05:37 PM
Stevo-o

Yes the Welsh Mafia is now officially out <_<


So, you&#39;re telling me that Du Preez and Conradie are on the same level (skill, vision, strength, passing, pace, kicking)? God help you.. Conradie is EASILY the 5th choice scrummie in SA, include Claasens (Bath) & de Kock (Sarries), and you looking at the 7th choice scrummie right there aye.[/b]

So Gareth Cooper is like Wales first choice scrum half <_< ? Phillips, Peel, Andy Williams are ahead of him. But what im saying and you know what im saying you have someone who can easily step up to the mark as you have the resources to do so. Im not telling you that Conradie is the same as Du Preez and I dunno how you figure that out, probably because I said something along the lines of if Du Preez gets injured then you have someone who can step up ... its bloody true mate! From what I watched of the game Conradie seem to have a good one!


Oh come on, Cymro where were you when all those pre-match comments were flying around? Comments from the Welsh players and coaching staff, and members on this forum. About how this team won&#39;t get bullied like in previous years, etc, putting out your biggest back row ever and making it obviously clear. Even Gatland and Jones (he&#39;s the captain right?) said that they were embarressed that they talk up their physical attributes and didn&#39;t back them up on the field. Smit even thanked the Welsh for getting his "boys" all rallied up with the constant verbal challenges.[/b]

Come where? <_<

and yes Ryan Jones is our captain!

Where was I, trying to keep a level head and see things through the murky windscreen of life! Wales did not put out the biggest backrow, had they put Delve instead of Dafydd Jones then yes we would have had a big back row! I just have to think that last saturday&#39;s result was a blip on the radar. And before you go off on one, what im saying is "Wales wont play as poor as they did in the last game!" I very much doubt that Wales got play any poorer than they did!
Wondered if the players came out in one piece after the the hair dryer treatment of Edwards and Gatland!


Really? Go and read the thread that covered last weeks game, members from other NH countries have pointed it out as well (one on this very thread!).[/b]

I dont have the time to go through looking but it would be helpful to direct me to these comments! What you also you dont seem to understand and I dunno how to put it into your head! Wales does have a depleted squad from the 6 Nations, whether or not you like it mate its the fact, it is an excuse that used when things go wrong but on this occassion it is the truth. The injuries lead to crap players getting picked, touring and then embarrassing Wales in front of the World Stage. But as I have said time after time, South Africa deserved the win and will probably win next week!

silent_shadow
09-06-08, 05:37 PM
<div class='quotemain'> I&#39;m sure Pienaar won&#39;t be there. Bolla, like it or not, played well and probably deserves another chance. Why not Spies ahead of Rossouw? Steyn starting ahead of Jacobs I can&#39;t imagine either with Jacobs playing well. Maybe Grant to sit out? But he deserves a spot because of Super 14 form I guess. In any case I won&#39;t want to be the coaching team...
I have a feeling the scores will be similar this week. Both teams&#39; attack and defense will improve and it&#39;ll probably be a more exciting game with a good crowd in.
Hopefully our wings will get more of the ball this game. [/b]

Thing about Pienaar is that he can play 9, 10 or 15; and Conradie did play well but Pienaar is a class above him. Lets be honest about Conradie here, I&#39;m sure the coach was pleased with his performance but he&#39;s still a 30 year man with 11 caps to his name. He&#39;s not a future prospect at all, and will be humbled by Oz and NZ imo.

I chose Rossouw because he can cover 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; and to be honest I haven&#39;t seen Spies play 6 or 7, so he is considered a specialist 8th man in this line up. Not saying he can&#39;t play flank, just never seen him there. I would rather have Wickus on than Rossouw but with that 3 year contract in England he fell out of a Bok spot. And in some ways I enjoy the physicality Rossouw brings, bit of a meat head but he does the bashing up stuff well.

Lets also be honest about Jacobs vs Steyn. Jacobs is playing the best rugby of his life at 29 or 30 (?) and has lost a yard of pace. Steyn won the most promising young player award in 2007, he has so much talent. He needs game time though, and this game is the last competitive game we got before the Tri-Nations.
[/b][/quote]

Pienaar&#39;s versatility adds nothing new to the lineup. We already have Grant (10, 12) and Percy (15, 13, even 10, 12 if need be). What&#39;s more Pienaar&#39;s shown he&#39;s nothing special at flyhalf and definitely not suited to fullback. Jantjes can cover wing. Bolla played much better and you have to reward the players who played well. You can&#39;t pick Pienaar on reputation alone. Also who said Bolla will play against Aus and NZ? I still don&#39;t rate him highly but he played well and deserves another chance.

I think sitting Steyn out will be the best thing that happens to him. Dick always made sure he played the full 80 minutes even if it was to the detriment of his team and he&#39;d always constantly praise Steyn and his abilites. Too much praise I&#39;d say, It&#39;s no wonder Steyn started trying to do too much on his on. Maybe when he gets his chance this game or the next he&#39;ll be more motivated and play better.

The combinations all showed potential on Saturday, it would be stupid to make too many changes to them. Consistency is key in rugby.

loratadine
09-06-08, 05:58 PM
i think we all need to be realistic here

south africa 103
wales 0

Gavin
09-06-08, 06:07 PM
Can&#39;t really see Wales producing anything in this test. Wouldn&#39;t mind seeing James Hook starting to see what he can do in the heat and lack of oxygen and perhaps Fury ahead of Cooper. South Africa will win again by at least 20 points.

Steve-o
09-06-08, 06:45 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> I&#39;m sure Pienaar won&#39;t be there. Bolla, like it or not, played well and probably deserves another chance. Why not Spies ahead of Rossouw? Steyn starting ahead of Jacobs I can&#39;t imagine either with Jacobs playing well. Maybe Grant to sit out? But he deserves a spot because of Super 14 form I guess. In any case I won&#39;t want to be the coaching team...
I have a feeling the scores will be similar this week. Both teams&#39; attack and defense will improve and it&#39;ll probably be a more exciting game with a good crowd in.
Hopefully our wings will get more of the ball this game. [/b]

Thing about Pienaar is that he can play 9, 10 or 15; and Conradie did play well but Pienaar is a class above him. Lets be honest about Conradie here, I&#39;m sure the coach was pleased with his performance but he&#39;s still a 30 year man with 11 caps to his name. He&#39;s not a future prospect at all, and will be humbled by Oz and NZ imo.

I chose Rossouw because he can cover 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; and to be honest I haven&#39;t seen Spies play 6 or 7, so he is considered a specialist 8th man in this line up. Not saying he can&#39;t play flank, just never seen him there. I would rather have Wickus on than Rossouw but with that 3 year contract in England he fell out of a Bok spot. And in some ways I enjoy the physicality Rossouw brings, bit of a meat head but he does the bashing up stuff well.

Lets also be honest about Jacobs vs Steyn. Jacobs is playing the best rugby of his life at 29 or 30 (?) and has lost a yard of pace. Steyn won the most promising young player award in 2007, he has so much talent. He needs game time though, and this game is the last competitive game we got before the Tri-Nations.
[/b][/quote]

Pienaar&#39;s versatility adds nothing new to the lineup. We already have Grant (10, 12) and Percy (15, 13, even 10, 12 if need be). What&#39;s more Pienaar&#39;s shown he&#39;s nothing special at flyhalf and definitely not suited to fullback. Jantjes can cover wing. Bolla played much better and you have to reward the players who played well. You can&#39;t pick Pienaar on reputation alone. Also who said Bolla will play against Aus and NZ? I still don&#39;t rate him highly but he played well and deserves another chance.

I think sitting Steyn out will be the best thing that happens to him. Dick always made sure he played the full 80 minutes even if it was to the detriment of his team and he&#39;d always constantly praise Steyn and his abilites. Too much praise I&#39;d say, It&#39;s no wonder Steyn started trying to do too much on his on. Maybe when he gets his chance this game or the next he&#39;ll be more motivated and play better.

The combinations all showed potential on Saturday, it would be stupid to make too many changes to them. Consistency is key in rugby.
[/b][/quote]

I guess it depends who you would like to see play in this years Tri-Nations and/or how you use these games. PdV still could use the next Test to experiment, I expect alot of changes. Maybe it&#39;s my bias as a Sharks supporter or because I think they&#39;re in another class, but I&#39;d rather like to see Steyn and Pienaar get more game time at international level than Conradie and Jacobs.

I think Pienaar showed potential at 10 in the S14 this year and I don&#39;t think he has played 15 this season, but no player ever got a chance to shine with Muir&#39;s ruthless rotation policy, that for some reason didn&#39;t apply to Terblanche.. He had the vision but the execution wasn&#39;t always there. Over cooked kicks going directly out was his major flaw but in the loose he helped create some excellent tries. One that stands out is that full field length try against the Chiefs started by Deysel and finished by Kankowski, Pienaar had the ball the just about longest time and his decision-making and line running were superb. Eddie Jones likened him to Stephan Larkham when he was a technical advisor for the Boks during the WC but Naas Botha doesn&#39;t think he should be the future 10. Tough one .

Although Peter Grant, dare I say, is starting to look more and more Henry Honiball. Very confrontational, good ball carrier, good defense, good all-round game and just generally tough. I think Grant has a bright future as a Bok 10, I would definitely like to see him get plenty game time this weekend.

shazbooger
09-06-08, 06:54 PM
But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game............................................. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! [/b] I woke my baby daughter laughing out loud at that one.

If you dont want people to think your making excuses.............. stop making excuses. It wasnt the ref, it wasnt indicipline, they actually were that much better then you. In the same way that Ireland were beaten by the better team on Saturday, you guys were beaten (more convincingly), by a far superior team on the day. Ireland can harp on about our form two years ago, and you guys can harp on about your form a year ago, it doesnt change the fact that you&#39;ve gone down there looking for respect, and are about to get sent home with your tail between your legs if you dont get your **** together.

Cymro
09-06-08, 07:14 PM
<div class='quotemain'> But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game............................................. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! [/b] I woke my baby daughter laughing out loud at that one.

If you dont want people to think your making excuses.............. stop making excuses. It wasnt the ref, it wasnt indicipline, they actually were that much better then you. In the same way that Ireland were beaten by the better team on Saturday, you guys were beaten (more convincingly), by a far superior team on the day. Ireland can harp on about our form two years ago, and you guys can harp on about your form a year ago, it doesnt change the fact that you&#39;ve gone down there looking for respect, and are about to get sent home with your tail between your legs if you dont get your **** together. [/b][/quote]

:bravo: Played son, Played

Mate go and read my posts, im not making excuses and it shows how much you actually read and understand! Yes Ive said we have injuries and yes it does effect a team, what team is not affected by injuries? I cant say I have blamed it soley on injuries the ref etc but I do feel you have jumped the gun with me!

Of course we were beaten by the better team! With a scoreline like that you would be worried that the Boks did not play well.

I think you are a tad deluded mate if you think Wales were unlucky, far from it! It&#39;s people like yourself who make me think is it worth posting anything! I cant seem to post my opinon before someone has to come in and throw some stupid comments in. Im not taking it off you mate because the fact is im openly happy to criticise Wales performance, far more than some! If you go back to the first test thread you may also see that.
Maybe you should think and stop before posting mate!

Again, played South Africa and Im looking forward to the 2nd test and see if Wales will improve!

P.S. Hope you dont start making exucses that it was my fault for your baby daughter getting woken up <_<

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 07:49 PM
Right, back to the topic since these arguements will continue until next week and beyond if we keep at it. <_<

My Welsh team:

Roberts
Jones
Shanklin
Hook
Williams
Jones
Fury

Jenkins
Hibbard
Jones
Gough
AW Jones
Delve
J Thomas
Jones

Score:

32 - 20 to SA, that&#39;s if we can get our act together, since our result last week will have knocked our confidence down a few levels. >.<

Cymro
09-06-08, 08:01 PM
Right, back to the topic since these arguements will continue until next week and beyond if we keep at it. <_<

My Welsh team:

Roberts
Jones
Shanklin
Hook
Williams
Jones
Fury

Jenkins
Hibbard
Jones
Gough
AW Jones
Delve
J Thomas
Jones

Score:

32 - 20 to SA, that&#39;s if we can get our act together, since our result last week will have knocked our confidence down a few levels. >.< [/b]

Pretty much the side I would pick to be honest!

Thingimubob
09-06-08, 09:09 PM
Steve-o
Hang on, you say you&#39;re going &#39;gaga&#39; over PdV, but weren&#39;t you one of the one&#39;s slating him because of the team he picked? A lot of South African fans have definitely changed their tune! Sorry if you weren&#39;t one of them, memory isn&#39;t fantastic atm, too much stuff crammed in there about (weirdly enough) the history of the South African Apartheid and the American Civil Rights movement (yes, GCSE History sucks).
But yeah, we&#39;re not making excuses, we were a bit headless and all over the place last Saturday, and were easily out-classed by the Boks. But, what we&#39;re saying is injuries really hurt us, which just showed that we have crap strength in depth, and that the ref didn&#39;t help a lot by missing at least a number of forward passes/knock ons that led to tries. One was so bleedin&#39; obvious I honestly think Pearson and the Touch Judges should book an appointment at an opticians just to check that they&#39;re eyes are alright...

But yeah, the Wales 22 should be
15. Jamie Roberts - didn&#39;t do too much wrong on Saturday so deserves to keep his place
14. Mark Jones - Kept Habana in check, and was decent on the ball, so should still be there.
13. Tom Shanklin - barely got any decent clean ball last week, so was driven backwards mostly because of static passes. Should keep his place because he&#39;s when he&#39;s got the space he&#39;s a dangerous threat.
12. Andrew Bishop - Parker was ****, spart from boffing a couple of Boks to set up Roberts&#39;s try, so Bishop (who&#39;s actually a natural 12) should be given his first Cap.
11. Shane Williams - Probably the best Welsh player on the pitch, scored a great try, and we all know he&#39;s on fire atm
10. Stephen Jones - did his best to stem the tid,e and did enough to secure his place ahead of Hook
9. Warren Fury - Cooper is ****, so lets give Fury a chance.
8. Ryan Jones © - Well, it&#39;s not as if Gatland&#39;s gonna leave out his Captain, but he seriously needs to lead form the front with a better performance.
7. Jon Thomas - I like Dafydd Jones, but we need to bring in Delve at 6., because we need the physicality that Delve brings.
6. Gareth Delve - see above.
5. Ian Gough - didn&#39;t do an awful amount last Saturday, but we need to keep with him
4. Alun Wyn Jones - same as Gough, they both need to pick up in their line out performances too.
3. Adam Jones - strong scrummager, did well against Steenkamp
2. Richard Hibbard - physical player, showed a fighting spirit (literally) that was missing from the rest of the team.
1. Gethin Jenkins - by far our best prop, smashed Mujati in the scrum, and held his own when van der Linde came on.

Subs
16. Rhys Thomas
17. Duncan Jones
18. Ian Evans
19. Dafydd Jones
20. Gareth Cooper
21. James Hook
22. Tom James

One too many mistakes from Hook puts him on the bench, Stoddard shouldn&#39;t be let near the Welsh shirt until he learns to Kick and Tackle.

Incredible Schalk
09-06-08, 09:32 PM
Scotland had 8 players out injured for the game in Wales.

Anyway look forward to this game, it will either be a 40 point gap or a reasonably close game i feel. Some questions have to be asked of PDV if he doesnt atleast bring Kankowski into the 22 and Steve i wouldnt say Conradie is the 7th choice. Fair enough he was kept out of the Stormers by a superb Januarie but he is a very useful player. Im not going to say he&#39;s the best but hes very underated and was superb on saturday i thought.

Sir Speedy
09-06-08, 09:33 PM
Why should we expect much more from Dave Pearson? :rolleyes:

Cymro
09-06-08, 09:36 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...lsh/7444921.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7444921.stm)

News was that Parker may be doubtful but they are saying he maybe fit :(

JT has a broken nose and Hook got battered in training!

Macsen
09-06-08, 09:37 PM
One thing I&#39;d ask Wales to do is cut out the stupid celebrations before they score a try. These were evident in the World Cup and the Six Nations. Put the ball on the ground and then do a little salute or dance or whatever, especially if you&#39;re 20 points behind and liable to get smashed off the ball if you stick around too long.

shtove
09-06-08, 09:59 PM
<div class='quotemain'> But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game............................................. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! [/b] I woke my baby daughter laughing out loud at that one.

If you dont want people to think your making excuses.............. stop making excuses. It wasnt the ref, it wasnt indicipline, they actually were that much better then you. In the same way that Ireland were beaten by the better team on Saturday, you guys were beaten (more convincingly), by a far superior team on the day. Ireland can harp on about our form two years ago, and you guys can harp on about your form a year ago, it doesnt change the fact that you&#39;ve gone down there looking for respect, and are about to get sent home with your tail between your legs if you dont get your **** together. [/b][/quote]
Ha ha - nice one! Tiny ickle baby probably does less whinging than certain supporters around here.

SA are looking good. RWC final was a bit thin on entertainment, but they were fairly jazzy throughout the tournament, and if black players really front up then they can dominate for ages.

As it stands, the quota players did okay against Wales, but it was the second half rearrangement with the usual white suspects that really did the biz.

Cymro
09-06-08, 10:18 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...lsh/7444921.stm

News was that Parker may be doubtful but they are saying he maybe fit :(

JT has a broken nose and Hook got battered in training!

mike-o-l
10-06-08, 05:22 AM
My SA team

Guthro Steekamp- Had a useful game, just needs to work on his scrumming
John Smit- Good leader, throwed well last week
CJ Van De Linde- Plenty of expierance, good scrummer
Bakkies Botha- Good in the line outs, can really ruff up the Welsh again
Victor Matfield- Bekker Just didn&#39;t do enough to retain his place
Luke Watson- Good runner, had a good game last week
Juan Smith- Always a top performer. Played well last week
Ryan Kankowski- Had an amazing super 14, Spies had his chance, now it&#39;s Kankowski
Enrico Januarie- Puts the opponents under a lot of pressure.
Butch James- Controls the back line well, Had a great game with the boot.
Bryan Habbana- Didn&#39;t play amazingly but was solid on defence
Jean De Villiers- Creates so much on attack
Adrian Jacobs- Solid last week, Useful replacement for fourie
Tonderai Chavanga- deserves another chance
Conrad Janties- Player well and with Jame kicking so well, Percy is not needed for his goal kicking

Jer1cho
10-06-08, 05:31 AM
Not good.... hope they are all fit... 6 Boks missed the training session yesterday.

http://www.24.com/sport/?p=rugby_article&i=846765

Geez, as good and fast as Chavhanga is, he is pretty darn useless if he just gets injured the whole time. You cant get injured in every game you play in... C&#39;mon!!!!

Steve-o
10-06-08, 06:44 AM
Not good.... hope they are all fit... 6 Boks missed the training session yesterday.

http://www.24.com/sport/?p=rugby_article&i=846765

Geez, as good and fast as Chavhanga is, he is pretty darn useless if he just gets injured the whole time. You cant get injured in every game you play in... C&#39;mon!!!!
[/b]
Pietersen has been training with the squad, along with Britz, so luckily we got an able right wing replacement if needed.

Boggle
10-06-08, 07:37 AM
Too bad Pietersen has been rather **** the whole season though.

hope he gets his act together.

Jer1cho
10-06-08, 07:45 AM
Well, it&#39;s still not clear whether these players are actually injured. So lets just hold thumbs. As much as i like Chavhanga, an average wing available for every game is better than a brilliant wing who plays 3 games a year....

Steve-o
10-06-08, 08:28 AM
Yeah, if I remember correctly Pietersen didn&#39;t score a single try in the S14, and he played most of the games. Was solid in defence though.
But remember we also got O. Ndungane who was in the original 30 man squad, and who played his brother out of a Bok spot.
Both wingers aren&#39;t as exciting and explosive as Chavhanga but are very able wingers (and Sharks players :D )

dullonien
10-06-08, 11:39 AM
Why is so much being made of our injuries? What difference would it have made? Henson could of kept the score down by actually tackling de Villers, but it was the forwards who didn&#39;t turn up (apart from Gethin). The only player we were missing up front was Martyn Williams, and he wouldn&#39;t of been able to do anything, as we were lacking physicality, not a constructive player like him.

Wales didn&#39;t help themselves last week, hardly put a few fazes together, should of still scored 3 tries though (Dafydd Jones deserves to be dropped for butchering a three man overlap on it&#39;s own, let alone that I didn&#39;t notice anything else he did). I thought Delve did well after coming on, deserves a chance.

In the front row, I&#39;m glad Hibbard will get his chance, needs to hit his targets though! Rhys Thomas should start on the tighthead, he&#39;ll hold in the scrum and offer more in open play i.e. hitting rucks etc. In the second row I think Evans needs to come in for Gough, he offers a better lineout and ball carrying option.

In the backs, I&#39;d make three changes. The first is obvious, Furry for Cooper. Don&#39;t think I need to explain that one! I&#39;d replace Hook for Jones, as he deserves his chance, he also offers a better attacking & kicking game (debatable). Finally, I&#39;d replace Parker with one of Bishop or Stephen Jones. Apart from his contribution in Roberts&#39; try, Parker was abysmal! He shipped on poor ball all game to Shanklin, taking him out of the game altogether! I&#39;d personally go for Bishop, for his defensive abilities, and because he&#39;s a natural 12.

Therefore my Welsh team for sat:

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Richard Hibbard
03 Rhys Thomas
04 Alun-Wyn Jones
05 Ian Evans
06 Ryan Jones
07 Jonathan Thomas
08 Gareth Delve

09 Warren Furry
10 James Hook
11 Shane Williams
12 Andrew Bishop
13 Tom Shanklin
14 Mark Jones
15 Jamie Roberts

Prestwick
10-06-08, 11:40 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game............................................. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! [/b] I woke my baby daughter laughing out loud at that one.

If you dont want people to think your making excuses.............. stop making excuses. It wasnt the ref, it wasnt indicipline, they actually were that much better then you. In the same way that Ireland were beaten by the better team on Saturday, you guys were beaten (more convincingly), by a far superior team on the day. Ireland can harp on about our form two years ago, and you guys can harp on about your form a year ago, it doesnt change the fact that you&#39;ve gone down there looking for respect, and are about to get sent home with your tail between your legs if you dont get your **** together. [/b][/quote]
Ha ha - nice one! Tiny ickle baby probably does less whinging than certain supporters around here.
[/b][/quote]

Yeah, get with the Anglo-Irish program. We&#39;ve seen so much disaster in the last four years that we&#39;re reduced to shrugging our shoulders and ordering another round from the bar...thats how a man takes a defeat.

Sir Speedy
10-06-08, 02:03 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> But what annoys me the most about the post above is that you seem to think that the &#39;Welsh Boyos&#39; on this forum are throwing excuses around about the game............................................. The fact is we have a squad with mass amount of injuries, thats a fact whether or not you like it! [/b] I woke my baby daughter laughing out loud at that one.

If you dont want people to think your making excuses.............. stop making excuses. It wasnt the ref, it wasnt indicipline, they actually were that much better then you. In the same way that Ireland were beaten by the better team on Saturday, you guys were beaten (more convincingly), by a far superior team on the day. Ireland can harp on about our form two years ago, and you guys can harp on about your form a year ago, it doesnt change the fact that you&#39;ve gone down there looking for respect, and are about to get sent home with your tail between your legs if you dont get your **** together. [/b][/quote]
Ha ha - nice one! Tiny ickle baby probably does less whinging than certain supporters around here.
[/b][/quote]

Yeah, get with the Anglo-Irish program. We&#39;ve seen so much disaster in the last four years that we&#39;re reduced to shrugging our shoulders and ordering another round from the bar...thats how a man takes a defeat.
[/b][/quote]
So Wales are successful? 2 out of 5 years we&#39;ve been good and that makes us successful whereas Ireland have been good and excellent from 04 - 07? Nothing to say about England because they&#39;re ****e and will remain that (:P), but Ireland have surely had more consistency than Wales these past 4 - 5 years?

danny
10-06-08, 08:05 PM
Things will be even tougher for Wales this weekend in my opinion. The best hope for Wales is to avoid contact as much as possible and do whatever it takes to get quickball. No1 channel in the scrums straight to the scrum half(not Cooper hopefully) quick line outs, tap penalties and simply play a frenetic game. This is the only way for Wales to play and not get stuffed. I certainly hope they can do it as it would be good for the NH.

dullonien
10-06-08, 08:57 PM
Things will be even tougher for Wales this weekend in my opinion. The best hope for Wales is to avoid contact as much as possible and do whatever it takes to get quickball. No1 channel in the scrums straight to the scrum half(not Cooper hopefully) quick line outs, tap penalties and simply play a frenetic game. This is the only way for Wales to play and not get stuffed. I certainly hope they can do it as it would be good for the NH. [/b]

Thought I&#39;d highlight that. The only area Wales were totally dominant of Saturday was in the scrums. Gethin Jenkins destroyed his oposite number (though I&#39;m expecting a change at tighthead for SA).

It&#39;s be nice to see the ball getting past the centres more than twice or thrice, well past the backrow without a mistake would be an improvement. I don&#39;t think chucking the ball around at every opotunity will work, it&#39;s also not Gatlands way of playing. We need to continue with the &#39;gotta go forward before we go wide&#39; tactics. We can&#39;t run bad ball, not against a defence like South Africa&#39;s! Last week, we were forced to run bad ball, resulting in the likes of Shanklin going backwards (how often did you see that in the 6 nations?)

I&#39;m not entirely sure how or if we can change things. Can our forwards can give us some go foreward ball? Hopefully the likes of Delve and Hibbard can help with that, Delve proved he&#39;s got both the power and pace required with his time on the pitch last week. We deffinetely need Ryan Jones to up his game, he made some good yards last week, but followed them up with some stupid errors!

I&#39;m expecting roughly a 15pt loss, something along the lines of 30-15 to SA, all depending on the team Gatland picks.

Macsen
10-06-08, 09:15 PM
So Wales are successful?[/b]
I&#39;d say Wales are very successful given the resources available to us. It&#39;s actually probably more of an achievement for a country like Wales to win the Grand Slam than a country like South Africa to win the World Cup. Our one advantage is we never realise how much the odds are stacked against us. :cheers:

Cymro
10-06-08, 09:20 PM
Anyone from the Welsh contingent catch the Western Mail yesterday?

Andy Howell&#39;s the Welsh Rugby editor made another meal of his article and what made me laugh more was the ratings he gave to the Welsh players, I question does he watch the same game I did? He rated majority of them to high and rated Parker 6 above other players who were better than him!

I expect Wales to include the following players for the next test in the starting lineup

Hibbard
Delve
Fury
Bishop

Bench:
Tom James

Incredible Schalk
10-06-08, 09:24 PM
<div class='quotemain'>So Wales are successful?[/b]
I&#39;d say Wales are very successful given the resources available to us. It&#39;s actually probably more of an achievement for a country like Wales to win the Grand Slam than a country like South Africa to win the World Cup. Our one advantage is we never realise how much the odds are stacked against us. :cheers:
[/b][/quote]


Well you cant do any better than a world cup. The interesting thing now will be if South Africa can do what NZ have done for so long. Go on a winning streak at home for 4 or 5 years and constantly win away from home, it will be tough but i think they can do it. They still need to prove they can beat the biggest sides, home and away which involves winning the tri nations something they did very tightly only in 2004 (which was amazing considering the previous 5 years).

danny
11-06-08, 06:06 AM
<div class='quotemain'> Things will be even tougher for Wales this weekend in my opinion. The best hope for Wales is to avoid contact as much as possible and do whatever it takes to get quickball. No1 channel in the scrums straight to the scrum half(not Cooper hopefully) quick line outs, tap penalties and simply play a frenetic game. This is the only way for Wales to play and not get stuffed. I certainly hope they can do it as it would be good for the NH. [/b]

Thought I&#39;d highlight that. The only area Wales were totally dominant of Saturday was in the scrums. Gethin Jenkins destroyed his oposite number (though I&#39;m expecting a change at tighthead for SA).

It&#39;s be nice to see the ball getting past the centres more than twice or thrice, well past the backrow without a mistake would be an improvement. I don&#39;t think chucking the ball around at every opotunity will work, it&#39;s also not Gatlands way of playing. We need to continue with the &#39;gotta go forward before we go wide&#39; tactics. We can&#39;t run bad ball, not against a defence like South Africa&#39;s! Last week, we were forced to run bad ball, resulting in the likes of Shanklin going backwards (how often did you see that in the 6 nations?)

I&#39;m not entirely sure how or if we can change things. Can our forwards can give us some go foreward ball? Hopefully the likes of Delve and Hibbard can help with that, Delve proved he&#39;s got both the power and pace required with his time on the pitch last week. We deffinetely need Ryan Jones to up his game, he made some good yards last week, but followed them up with some stupid errors!

I&#39;m expecting roughly a 15pt loss, something along the lines of 30-15 to SA, all depending on the team Gatland picks.
[/b][/quote]
yes Wales did do well in the set scrums last week but they delivered slow ball. Against SA impressive defence Wales were constantly hit back in the tackle due to slow ball. All I was saying was you need to generate pace from every part of the pitch to give yourself even a chance of turning things around. Gatland is a smart coach and he will know it will be suicide to run straight at the Boks again, so dont be surprised to see my tactics being used by the Welsh. As for Shanklin he did have some bad ball last weekend but the guy has been off form for a while. I dont think we would have seen him struggle like that a few years ago. Perhaps he needs a break as he has played a lot of hard rugby for a lot of years and it looks like its taking its toll.

Jer1cho
11-06-08, 08:21 AM
Cant wait for the second test!!! Curse it only being Wednesday. :(

Steve-o
11-06-08, 08:42 AM
I feel your pain Jer1cho :P
Luckily there&#39;s a rugga show on sabc 2 tonight at 10
Just a mid-week quick fix!

Boggle
11-06-08, 09:10 AM
Britz and Pietersen have joined the bok squad :bana:



http://www.supersport.co.za/rugby/article....d&id=257495 (http://www.supersport.co.za/rugby/article.aspx?headline=Pietersen,%20Brits%20join%20 Bok%20squad&id=257495)



apparently John Smit is being released to play in the French top 14 semis, so he&#39;ll miss the Itly test and Britz is seriously being contending for selection (rightfully so too). My prediction of a Italy test for Britz doesn&#39;t seems all the more likely now, even if he does just come off the bench.

Macsen
11-06-08, 12:23 PM
Cant wait for the second test!!! Curse it only being Wednesday. :( [/b]
Thank God it&#39;s only Wednesday...

Steve-o
11-06-08, 02:19 PM
Britz and Pietersen have joined the bok squad :bana:



http://www.supersport.co.za/rugby/article....d&id=257495 (http://www.supersport.co.za/rugby/article.aspx?headline=Pietersen,%20Brits%20join%20 Bok%20squad&id=257495)



apparently John Smit is being released to play in the French top 14 semis, so he&#39;ll miss the Itly test and Britz is seriously being contending for selection (rightfully so too). My prediction of a Italy test for Britz doesn&#39;t seems all the more likely now, even if he does just come off the bench.
[/b]
Britz does definitely deserve a spot, as you say.
He&#39;s a freak!

Jer1cho
11-06-08, 02:57 PM
Britz does definitely deserve a spot, as you say.
He&#39;s a freak!
[/b]

Sure does. I&#39;m just hoping Chavhanga is not injured, and still stays first choice...

Boggle
11-06-08, 03:21 PM
Holy crap, I&#39;m surprised you could read what I wrote there.
Grammarfail to the max, soz.

I blame it on having just woken up coupled with the excitement of the news. :P

Steve-o
11-06-08, 03:58 PM
Lol, bru that posted around 12! To be fair though, you only beat me by an hour and a half :P

danny
11-06-08, 04:30 PM
Lol, bru that posted around 12! To be fair though, you only beat me by an hour and a half :P
[/b]
Is that Leonardo DiCaprio in blood diamond?

Incredible Schalk
11-06-08, 05:16 PM
Brits was the best hooker in the Super 14, it would have been ridiculous if he didnt get a call up. Pietersen is out of form and doesnt do much anyway except run in tries, hopefullly Chavanga will be fit.

Steve-o
11-06-08, 06:04 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Lol, bru that posted around 12! To be fair though, you only beat me by an hour and a half :P
[/b]
Is that Leonardo DiCaprio in blood diamond?
[/b][/quote]
Nah he&#39;s Rhodean "huh"

danny
11-06-08, 06:57 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Lol, bru that posted around 12! To be fair though, you only beat me by an hour and a half :P
[/b]
Is that Leonardo DiCaprio in blood diamond?
[/b][/quote]
Nah he&#39;s Rhodean "huh"
[/b][/quote]
ya, I get your drift bru!(then drags agressively on a cigarette)

Cymro
11-06-08, 08:56 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_unio...lsh/7444921.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7444921.stm)

Talks emerging that Hook may play either 12 or 15?

Surley Bishop should come in at 12? But there are doubts over his defence! Roberts deserves another shout at fullback!

Team is announced tomorrow at 11:30am BBC Wales

Sir Speedy
12-06-08, 08:12 AM
Cool, I&#39;ll be sure to catch it live. Lets hope Hook doesn&#39;t play fullback, his talents will be wasted there.

dullonien
12-06-08, 08:53 AM
Surley Bishop should come in at 12? But there are doubts over his defence![/b]
Can&#39;t believe there would be doubts over his defence, one of the best tackling 12&#39;s I&#39;ve seen!

There&#39;s an even more bizare story coming from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7444921.stm) today, Hook moving to fullback and Jamie Roberts moving to 12! I&#39;m sure Roberts could be converted to 12 in time, but not for the first time (anyone know if he&#39;s played there before?) against the Boks!

Cymro
12-06-08, 10:04 AM
<div class='quotemain'> Surley Bishop should come in at 12? But there are doubts over his defence![/b]
Can&#39;t believe there would be doubts over his defence, one of the best tackling 12&#39;s I&#39;ve seen!

There&#39;s an even more bizare story coming from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7444921.stm) today, Hook moving to fullback and Jamie Roberts moving to 12! I&#39;m sure Roberts could be converted to 12 in time, but not for the first time (anyone know if he&#39;s played there before?) against the Boks! [/b][/quote]

Roberts only has played Wing / Fullback as far as I know!

But there are doubts over Bishop&#39;s defence and it has been underlined by a few pundits and commentators on games I have seen. I reckon hes a better bet at 12 for Wales!

Jer1cho
12-06-08, 10:06 AM
Is rugby the Welsh national sport?

dullonien
12-06-08, 10:13 AM
Is rugby the Welsh national sport? [/b]
Yes

Macsen
12-06-08, 10:23 AM
Is rugby the Welsh national sport?[/b]
Officially yes, but im terms of the number watching and playing it&#39;s taken a back seat to football.

Cymro
12-06-08, 10:35 AM
<div class='quotemain'>Is rugby the Welsh national sport?[/b]
Officially yes, but im terms of the number watching and playing it&#39;s taken a back seat to football.
[/b][/quote]

You what!

Come off it more people watch Welsh rugby more than Welsh football and its the same at international level!





Also: Test Team Selection Delayed until 12pm GMT

Jer1cho
12-06-08, 10:36 AM
Officially yes, but im terms of the number watching and playing it&#39;s taken a back seat to football.[/b]

Sort of the same situation here i guess... only viewership difference is massive!!!!!

*scratches head wondering how the hell soccer is the national sport when they are ranked near 100*

Cymro
12-06-08, 11:05 AM
Wales team to face South Africa: James Hook (Ospreys); Mark Jones (Scarlets), Tom Shanklin (Blues), Jamie Roberts (Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Gareth Cooper (Gloucester); Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhys Thomas (Dragons), Ian Gough (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Gareth Delve (Gloucester), Ryan Jones (Ospreys, capt).
Replacements: T Rhys Thomas (Blues), Duncan Jones (Ospreys), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Dafydd Jones (Scarlets), Warren Fury (London Irish), Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Tom James (Blues).

Not impressed, im going to have a moment befoe commenting on this team!

shazbooger
12-06-08, 11:13 AM
Would any other team have looked impressive. Hook at fullback is a huge gamble (if you ask me) but as the pack picks itself, and you dont have any scrumhalves left your a little stuck for options in the areas you really wanted to change. Its unfortunate really but cant be helped.

From the sounds of it they have been given a right going over by the coaches so you can expect a more fiery performance from the pack. Not sure if it&#39;ll make that much of a difference but here&#39;s hoping.

Macsen
12-06-08, 11:16 AM
*scratches head wondering how the hell soccer is the national sport when they are ranked near 100* [/b]
YES!!! We&#39;re ranked 53! You can only beat us at the unpopular sports that no one cares about, nyah nyah. :P

:wah:

Cymro
12-06-08, 11:26 AM
Wales team to face South Africa: James Hook (Ospreys); Mark Jones (Scarlets), Tom Shanklin (Blues), Jamie Roberts (Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Gareth Cooper (Gloucester); Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhys Thomas (Dragons), Ian Gough (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Gareth Delve (Gloucester), Ryan Jones (Ospreys, capt).
Replacements: T Rhys Thomas (Blues), Duncan Jones (Ospreys), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Dafydd Jones (Scarlets), Warren Fury (London Irish), Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Tom James (Blues).

Not impressed, im going to have a moment befoe commenting on this team!
[/b]

Right had a think and really really puzzled by this!

Gareth Cooper starts? WTF is going on here, a person who showed hes not international quality and shows our ambition to play a negativie game of rugby! Fury get give us quicker ball than Cooper and he showed it when he came on last test! Rhys Thomas at tighthead? In November he got a working over by the South African props and I have to admit hes not a great scrummager, are they relying soley on Geth Jenkins upfront? Reason behind Thomas selection is the fact he is more mobile round the park, but im afraid Adam Jones has impresed me enough even in the last test to still keep hold of that 3 shirt. I presume that Delve is starting at 7! Again he is a 6 / 8 where as JT can play 6/7/8! Delve is not a 7 and I dont understand he is going to play there! Jaime Roberts at 12 is an interesting one, anyone would be better than Parker and Im glad that Gatland has seen this. Hook at 15 maybe a gamble but it should pay off!

South Africa: Conrad Jantjes; Tonderai Chavhanga, Adrian Jacobs, Jean de Villiers, Bryan Habana; Butch James, Ricky Januarie; Tendai Mtawarira, John Smit (capt), BJ Botha, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Luke Watson, Juan Smith, Pierre Smith.
Replacements: Bismarck Du Plessis, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Andries Bekker, Ryan Kankowski, Bolla Conradie, Francois Steyn, Percy Montgomery.

Incredible Schalk
12-06-08, 11:37 AM
Great so see the BEAST starting B)

Steve-o
12-06-08, 11:54 AM
Like this starting XV. Conradie deserves his bench spot, i guess. Good to see some of the young players are in the team, really looking forward to see Kankowski get a run, hopefully atleast 25-30 minutes.
There are alot of Sharks supporters up in Pretoria, and I&#39;m sure they&#39;ll make Beast feel right at home :D

Bull
12-06-08, 12:01 PM
Who the hell is Pierre Smith?

nicolaas777
12-06-08, 12:32 PM
hopefully there will be a bigger and better crowd in this weekend! one who can sing ole!

loratadine
12-06-08, 12:36 PM
LOL ole haha

ummm delve is starting 8 i heared, and ryan 6 with jt moving to openside

nicolaas777
12-06-08, 12:40 PM
LOL ole haha

[/b]

what&#39;s so funny mister??

BLR
12-06-08, 12:48 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
LOL ole haha
[/b]
what&#39;s so funny mister??[/b][/quote]
Don&#39;t worry about him, he&#39;s just a Welshman. :D

dullonien
12-06-08, 12:56 PM
Well, interesting selections to say the least. I personally agree with Rhys Thomas at 3, he held his own against the Azzuri in the 6 nations, so should be fine scrum time. I thought Adam Jones went well in the scrums last week, but was nowhere to be seen in the open. We need players hitting rucks, and Gatland obviously thinks Thomas will anable us to contend in that area and is willing to sacrifice the scrums slightly.

The Beeb have confiremed that the backrow will be Jones, Thomas, Delve. So no problems there Cymro.

Can&#39;t believe Cooper kept his place, Fury looked good when he came on, deserved a start.

I&#39;m looking foreward to see Roberts at 12, he&#39;s deffinately got the size, power and pace, but will he add anything Parker didn&#39;t? Maybe he&#39;s been chosen to nail de Villers every time he get&#39;s the ball? Huge gamble!

Hook at full back will work ok. He&#39;s got the talent and ability to play well there. He gives us an extra kicking option awell.

I like the look of the bench, good to see Bishop able to come on if Gatland&#39;s little experiment doesn&#39;t come off.

loratadine
12-06-08, 01:00 PM
lol i dont know, ole ole ole ole lolol, just funny like

spose different cultures

nicolaas777
12-06-08, 01:08 PM
yea well i think they should try and sing a song with more than just one word in it, but looks like ole is all that they can sing :P

silent_shadow
12-06-08, 01:08 PM
Not a bad team. I think they should keep more consistency in the scrum though.
But please don&#39;t tell me Steyn&#39;s coming in at 10?! Butch better play well. Steyn&#39;s one of those players who can make something out of nothing, unfortunately that also means he can lose the game for his team especially at flyhalf where he doesn&#39;t have the distribution nor the brains nor the ability to cope under pressure. So let&#39;s hope he comes on at a time when we&#39;ve already won. Or I suppose I can just hope he plays well, but I can only see him as a hindrance at flyhalf. I just hope he proves me wrong...

nicolaas777
12-06-08, 01:10 PM
when we play the english again then they should sing de la rey... :P:D;)

yea steyn&#39;s gotta learn to pass.

Jer1cho
12-06-08, 01:11 PM
Kankowski? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

Chavhanga still there, yay!!!!! Happy happy day. :)

Bull
12-06-08, 01:25 PM
This match is somewhat difficult to judge, meaning I don&#39;t know how well Wales will play. It&#39;s either going to be pretty close with the Boks winning or 50+ for the Boks, either way we will win.

dullonien
12-06-08, 01:59 PM
This match is somewhat difficult to judge, meaning I don&#39;t know how well Wales will play. It&#39;s either going to be pretty close with the Boks winning or 30+ for the Boks, either way we will win. [/b]

Sounds about right. Still don&#39;t think we&#39;ll lose by 50, our defence is still to good for that (praying to god I&#39;m not proven wrong again).

Jer1cho
12-06-08, 02:03 PM
Who the hell is Pierre Smith?
[/b]

Juan Smith and Pierre Spies&#39;s adopted boy. They had problems conceiving.

Sir Speedy
12-06-08, 02:47 PM
WHAT THE F**K DOES GATLAND SEE IN COOPER? The useless ******* has been nothing but a replacement for the past 3 years for club and country (bar Newport, who are crap anyway) and he won&#39;t be going to the WC in 2011 unless he improves DRASTICALLY. As for Roberts at inside centre: I support this, because we lack inside centres and this dude is really powerful; I&#39;m more concerned about Hook at fullback (although he can&#39;t be much worse that Stoddart! <_<).

danny
12-06-08, 04:20 PM
WHAT THE F**K DOES GATLAND SEE IN COOPER? The useless ******* has been nothing but a replacement for the past 3 years for club and country (bar Newport, who are crap anyway) and he won&#39;t be going to the WC in 2011 unless he improves DRASTICALLY. As for Roberts at inside centre: I support this, because we lack inside centres and this dude is really powerful; I&#39;m more concerned about Hook at fullback (although he can&#39;t be much worse that Stoddart! <_<).
[/b]
Cooper is ****e at Prem level so against the Boks with a pack retreating he will be a joke. I think some are starting to rate Fury higher than he deserves, you realise he is third choice at L Irish. So the guy is no saviour. I saw him play live this year and he was a bit of a weak link. Dont worry about Hook he can play anywhere in the backs as he is so talented.

Sir Speedy
12-06-08, 04:23 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
WHAT THE F**K DOES GATLAND SEE IN COOPER? The useless ******* has been nothing but a replacement for the past 3 years for club and country (bar Newport, who are crap anyway) and he won&#39;t be going to the WC in 2011 unless he improves DRASTICALLY. As for Roberts at inside centre: I support this, because we lack inside centres and this dude is really powerful; I&#39;m more concerned about Hook at fullback (although he can&#39;t be much worse that Stoddart! <_<).
[/b]
Cooper is ****e at Prem level so against the Boks with a pack retreating he will be a joke. I think some are starting to rate Fury higher than he deserves, you realise he is third choice at L Irish. So the guy is no saviour. I saw him play live this year and he was a bit of a weak link. Dont worry about Hook he can play anywhere in the backs as he is so talented.
[/b][/quote]
Fury came on and was very solid against SA last week, and he&#39;s only 3rd choice at LI because he had an injury last year (I think Gatland worked with Fury with the Wasps academy, or something, so he knows that he&#39;s quite talented). Anyway, he brings a lot more than Cooper; who is so far off his game it&#39;s ridiculous!

Cymro
12-06-08, 06:22 PM
Well, interesting selections to say the least. I personally agree with Rhys Thomas at 3, he held his own against the Azzuri in the 6 nations, so should be fine scrum time. I thought Adam Jones went well in the scrums last week, but was nowhere to be seen in the open. We need players hitting rucks, and Gatland obviously thinks Thomas will anable us to contend in that area and is willing to sacrifice the scrums slightly.

The Beeb have confiremed that the backrow will be Jones, Thomas, Delve. So no problems there Cymro.

Can&#39;t believe Cooper kept his place, Fury looked good when he came on, deserved a start.

I&#39;m looking foreward to see Roberts at 12, he&#39;s deffinately got the size, power and pace, but will he add anything Parker didn&#39;t? Maybe he&#39;s been chosen to nail de Villers every time he get&#39;s the ball? Huge gamble!

Hook at full back will work ok. He&#39;s got the talent and ability to play well there. He gives us an extra kicking option awell.

I like the look of the bench, good to see Bishop able to come on if Gatland&#39;s little experiment doesn&#39;t come off. [/b]

Regarding Delve at 7, its been changed now so he is starting at 8 and I dont have a problem with the backrowm the fact of the matter is why Gatland failed to use this one in the first place!

Rhys Thomas does have scrum time issues and anyone Welsh fan who thinks not is having an absolute laugh! This man has looked poor in all games, the one he looked good in was Italy in the 6 Nation, I fail to see how people rate him at times, yes he can run round the park but I will go back to the game against South Africa in November where he was destroyed, he then got his arse handed to him during the Mangers League games (yes Dragons are not the strongest but his scrummaging was poor). It will be interesting to see him play on Saturday but if all else fails we will have to send for Super Geth to play tighthead!

danny
12-06-08, 07:02 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
WHAT THE F**K DOES GATLAND SEE IN COOPER? The useless ******* has been nothing but a replacement for the past 3 years for club and country (bar Newport, who are crap anyway) and he won&#39;t be going to the WC in 2011 unless he improves DRASTICALLY. As for Roberts at inside centre: I support this, because we lack inside centres and this dude is really powerful; I&#39;m more concerned about Hook at fullback (although he can&#39;t be much worse that Stoddart! <_<).
[/b]
Cooper is ****e at Prem level so against the Boks with a pack retreating he will be a joke. I think some are starting to rate Fury higher than he deserves, you realise he is third choice at L Irish. So the guy is no saviour. I saw him play live this year and he was a bit of a weak link. Dont worry about Hook he can play anywhere in the backs as he is so talented.
[/b][/quote]
Fury came on and was very solid against SA last week, and he&#39;s only 3rd choice at LI because he had an injury last year (I think Gatland worked with Fury with the Wasps academy, or something, so he knows that he&#39;s quite talented). Anyway, he brings a lot more than Cooper; who is so far off his game it&#39;s ridiculous!
[/b][/quote]
Actually he`s 3rd choice at Irish because Richards and Hodgeson are better scrum halves. Being in wasps academy doesnt mean ****.

dullonien
12-06-08, 07:16 PM
the one he looked good in was Italy in the 6 Nation,[/b]

But this was the last game he played for Wales against a much vaunted front row and scrum. To be honest, if we loose a bit in the scrum but compete at the break down, with Rhys Rhomas hitting more rucks than Adam Jones could only dream of doing, I&#39;ll be a very happy man.

danny
12-06-08, 08:04 PM
<div class='quotemain'>the one he looked good in was Italy in the 6 Nation,[/b]

But this was the last game he played for Wales against a much vaunted front row and scrum. To be honest, if we loose a bit in the scrum but compete at the break down, with Rhys Rhomas hitting more rucks than Adam Jones could only dream of doing, I&#39;ll be a very happy man.
[/b][/quote]
Thats so true Rhys Thomas offers much more in the loose and that is where Wales will need to be more competitive. The only are where the Boks didnt completely dominate was in the scrums so it makes sense to pick a more mobile prop. Even at club level Jones is a liability around the pitch, he is carried by the fact that he plays in a decent pack at the Ospreys, I imagine they will be looking to replace the less able forwards in that squad quite soon as they were a big factor in the dissapointing season.

Macsen
12-06-08, 08:54 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("BBC Sport")</div>
Despite Wales having beaten the Springboks only once more than 100 years ago, Hook says they can reverse last weekend&#39;s 43-17 reverse.[/b]
I know 1999 was last century, but... :blink:

Cymro
12-06-08, 09:19 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>the one he looked good in was Italy in the 6 Nation,[/b]

But this was the last game he played for Wales against a much vaunted front row and scrum. To be honest, if we loose a bit in the scrum but compete at the break down, with Rhys Rhomas hitting more rucks than Adam Jones could only dream of doing, I&#39;ll be a very happy man.
[/b][/quote]
Thats so true Rhys Thomas offers much more in the loose and that is where Wales will need to be more competitive. The only are where the Boks didnt completely dominate was in the scrums so it makes sense to pick a more mobile prop. Even at club level Jones is a liability around the pitch, he is carried by the fact that he plays in a decent pack at the Ospreys, I imagine they will be looking to replace the less able forwards in that squad quite soon as they were a big factor in the dissapointing season. [/b][/quote]

Sorry but Adam Jones has played quite brillaintly of late, many fans dont seem to understand alot about forwards play at all. What Adam Jones does well is scrummage and ruck well, dont give me ******** about him being overweight and unfit because since Gatland it has changed and it has improved his game level for CLUB and COUNTRY.

So I dont know where your ******** of &#39;liability around the pitch&#39; comes from. Hes not been a liability he has had to change under the new system and has done so. Hes hit more rucks than hes ever done before hes been able to last full games, hes been able to do everything. To call him a liability is poor to none!

The problem with Rhys Thomas he thinks he&#39;s Chirs Horsman which hes not, hes not the scrummager and his flairy attitude gets himself into hotwater more times than not, Adam Jones however has shown he can scrummage and has played well in the tight, yes hes not around the lose but people never see the tight play that goes on!

At the end of the day Rhys Thomas has been picked and nothing can be done but I am very doubtful he will have a good game!

danny
13-06-08, 07:20 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>the one he looked good in was Italy in the 6 Nation,[/b]

But this was the last game he played for Wales against a much vaunted front row and scrum. To be honest, if we loose a bit in the scrum but compete at the break down, with Rhys Rhomas hitting more rucks than Adam Jones could only dream of doing, I&#39;ll be a very happy man.
[/b][/quote]
Thats so true Rhys Thomas offers much more in the loose and that is where Wales will need to be more competitive. The only are where the Boks didnt completely dominate was in the scrums so it makes sense to pick a more mobile prop. Even at club level Jones is a liability around the pitch, he is carried by the fact that he plays in a decent pack at the Ospreys, I imagine they will be looking to replace the less able forwards in that squad quite soon as they were a big factor in the dissapointing season. [/b][/quote]

Sorry but Adam Jones has played quite brillaintly of late, many fans dont seem to understand alot about forwards play at all. What Adam Jones does well is scrummage and ruck well, dont give me ******** about him being overweight and unfit because since Gatland it has changed and it has improved his game level for CLUB and COUNTRY.

So I dont know where your ******** of &#39;liability around the pitch&#39; comes from. Hes not been a liability he has had to change under the new system and has done so. Hes hit more rucks than hes ever done before hes been able to last full games, hes been able to do everything. To call him a liability is poor to none!

The problem with Rhys Thomas he thinks he&#39;s Chirs Horsman which hes not, hes not the scrummager and his flairy attitude gets himself into hotwater more times than not, Adam Jones however has shown he can scrummage and has played well in the tight, yes hes not around the lose but people never see the tight play that goes on!

At the end of the day Rhys Thomas has been picked and nothing can be done but I am very doubtful he will have a good game!
[/b][/quote]
Hey why so defensive again? Dont be so sensitive about discussing the merits of Welsh players!!
Adam Jones has improved his scrummaging but is not up to top level rugby in the loose. Go and watch an Ospreys game live and you will see. He is overweight and that is probably the reason. Its nothing personal I just dont rate the guy.Live with it!

Cymro
13-06-08, 08:30 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>the one he looked good in was Italy in the 6 Nation,[/b]

But this was the last game he played for Wales against a much vaunted front row and scrum. To be honest, if we loose a bit in the scrum but compete at the break down, with Rhys Rhomas hitting more rucks than Adam Jones could only dream of doing, I&#39;ll be a very happy man.
[/b][/quote]
Thats so true Rhys Thomas offers much more in the loose and that is where Wales will need to be more competitive. The only are where the Boks didnt completely dominate was in the scrums so it makes sense to pick a more mobile prop. Even at club level Jones is a liability around the pitch, he is carried by the fact that he plays in a decent pack at the Ospreys, I imagine they will be looking to replace the less able forwards in that squad quite soon as they were a big factor in the dissapointing season. [/b][/quote]

Sorry but Adam Jones has played quite brillaintly of late, many fans dont seem to understand alot about forwards play at all. What Adam Jones does well is scrummage and ruck well, dont give me ******** about him being overweight and unfit because since Gatland it has changed and it has improved his game level for CLUB and COUNTRY.

So I dont know where your ******** of &#39;liability around the pitch&#39; comes from. Hes not been a liability he has had to change under the new system and has done so. Hes hit more rucks than hes ever done before hes been able to last full games, hes been able to do everything. To call him a liability is poor to none!

The problem with Rhys Thomas he thinks he&#39;s Chirs Horsman which hes not, hes not the scrummager and his flairy attitude gets himself into hotwater more times than not, Adam Jones however has shown he can scrummage and has played well in the tight, yes hes not around the lose but people never see the tight play that goes on!

At the end of the day Rhys Thomas has been picked and nothing can be done but I am very doubtful he will have a good game!
[/b][/quote]
Hey why so defensive again? Dont be so sensitive about discussing the merits of Welsh players!!
Adam Jones has improved his scrummaging but is not up to top level rugby in the loose. Go and watch an Ospreys game live and you will see. He is overweight and that is probably the reason. Its nothing personal I just dont rate the guy.Live with it! [/b][/quote]

Danny will you bugger off mate, you dont understand the word defensive, christ whether you like it or not I can attack or defend any player I like, and you cant tell me otherwise, I dont rate Rhys Thomas, never have and never will do.

I was also addressing dullonien point about Rhys Thomas!

If you dont like it then lump it mate!

dullonien
13-06-08, 08:45 AM
I also thought that Adam Jones had a very good 6 nations, but you can&#39;t tell me he was hitting rucks last week against SA. I&#39;m not sure if it was the altitude having more of an effect on him, but he was nowhere to be seen in the loose. I&#39;m sorry, but he&#39;s a throwback to amateur days, where a prop was only there to scrummage. Nowerdays props need more than that, sadly Adam Jones just didn&#39;t offer it last week.

No matter how you look at it, he is still overweight (give Gatland and co more time, then they might get him into trim), compare him to Gethin Jenkins, he&#39;s carrying no extra weight, just pure muscle (same as all modern props, Sheridan, Yapp etc.)

Gatland must agree, why else would he of dropped him in favour of Rhys Thomas.

Cymro
13-06-08, 09:12 AM
I also thought that Adam Jones had a very good 6 nations, but you can&#39;t tell me he was hitting rucks last week against SA. I&#39;m not sure if it was the altitude having more of an effect on him, but he was nowhere to be seen in the loose. I&#39;m sorry, but he&#39;s a throwback to amateur days, where a prop was only there to scrummage. Nowerdays props need more than that, sadly Adam Jones just didn&#39;t offer it last week.

No matter how you look at it, he is still overweight (give Gatland and co more time, then they might get him into trim), compare him to Gethin Jenkins, he&#39;s carrying no extra weight, just pure muscle (same as all modern props, Sheridan, Yapp etc.)

Gatland must agree, why else would he of dropped him in favour of Rhys Thomas. [/b]

Geth is no where near as slim as he was in 2005, but hes bulking up from what I gather from the stories I hear from Cardiff!
I still find him being dropped a funny thing, yes he may not always appear in the lose but I cant recall when hes really had a seriously bad international game this season!

At the end of the day I reckon Thomas is in for a more mobile game rather than his tight play!

silent_shadow
13-06-08, 09:34 AM
Steyn has apparently put his foot down and said he only wants to be considered for flyhalf. I&#39;m worried about the game tomorrow now...
In other news Peter Grant had turned down a R10million offer to play in Japan for 3 years when his contract with WP expires at the end of 2009. Good on you, Bash.

Jer1cho
13-06-08, 09:41 AM
In other news Peter Grant had turned down a R10million offer to play in Japan for 3 years when his contract with WP expires at the end of 2009. Good on you, Bash.[/b]

Yeah, he said South Africa, the green and gold, WP and braaivleis are too important to him!!! What a boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grant FTW

Sir Speedy
13-06-08, 04:03 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
WHAT THE F**K DOES GATLAND SEE IN COOPER? The useless ******* has been nothing but a replacement for the past 3 years for club and country (bar Newport, who are crap anyway) and he won&#39;t be going to the WC in 2011 unless he improves DRASTICALLY. As for Roberts at inside centre: I support this, because we lack inside centres and this dude is really powerful; I&#39;m more concerned about Hook at fullback (although he can&#39;t be much worse that Stoddart! <_<).
[/b]
Cooper is ****e at Prem level so against the Boks with a pack retreating he will be a joke. I think some are starting to rate Fury higher than he deserves, you realise he is third choice at L Irish. So the guy is no saviour. I saw him play live this year and he was a bit of a weak link. Dont worry about Hook he can play anywhere in the backs as he is so talented.
[/b][/quote]
Fury came on and was very solid against SA last week, and he&#39;s only 3rd choice at LI because he had an injury last year (I think Gatland worked with Fury with the Wasps academy, or something, so he knows that he&#39;s quite talented). Anyway, he brings a lot more than Cooper; who is so far off his game it&#39;s ridiculous!
[/b][/quote]
Actually he`s 3rd choice at Irish because Richards and Hodgeson are better scrum halves. Being in wasps academy doesnt mean ****.
[/b][/quote]
No **** there. <_< What it does mean is that Gatland has worked with him before and knows he is talented. Cooper wasn&#39;t a bad player in his day, but he looked like a player past his sell-by-date last weekend and Fury definately showed him up when he came on. What he needs is more oppurtunities, at Wales and London Irish - you can hardly say Hodgson and Richards (mind you Richards is very talented, although I don&#39;t rate Hodgson much) are better SH&#39;s when Fury has been given very little chance to prove himself; and when he did against SA he had a very solid game behind a ****e Wales pack.

Boggle
13-06-08, 05:12 PM
I&#39;m proud to hear Hugh Bladen will be commentating his 150th Test during the match as well, good gosh I&#39;ve missed his commentating, I wish he did every single game.

danny
13-06-08, 05:43 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
WHAT THE F**K DOES GATLAND SEE IN COOPER? The useless ******* has been nothing but a replacement for the past 3 years for club and country (bar Newport, who are crap anyway) and he won&#39;t be going to the WC in 2011 unless he improves DRASTICALLY. As for Roberts at inside centre: I support this, because we lack inside centres and this dude is really powerful; I&#39;m more concerned about Hook at fullback (although he can&#39;t be much worse that Stoddart! <_<).
[/b]
Cooper is ****e at Prem level so against the Boks with a pack retreating he will be a joke. I think some are starting to rate Fury higher than he deserves, you realise he is third choice at L Irish. So the guy is no saviour. I saw him play live this year and he was a bit of a weak link. Dont worry about Hook he can play anywhere in the backs as he is so talented.
[/b][/quote]
Fury came on and was very solid against SA last week, and he&#39;s only 3rd choice at LI because he had an injury last year (I think Gatland worked with Fury with the Wasps academy, or something, so he knows that he&#39;s quite talented). Anyway, he brings a lot more than Cooper; who is so far off his game it&#39;s ridiculous!
[/b][/quote]
Actually he`s 3rd choice at Irish because Richards and Hodgeson are better scrum halves. Being in wasps academy doesnt mean ****.
[/b][/quote]
No **** there. <_< What it does mean is that Gatland has worked with him before and knows he is talented. Cooper wasn&#39;t a bad player in his day, but he looked like a player past his sell-by-date last weekend and Fury definately showed him up when he came on. What he needs is more oppurtunities, at Wales and London Irish - you can hardly say Hodgson and Richards (mind you Richards is very talented, although I don&#39;t rate Hodgson much) are better SH&#39;s when Fury has been given very little chance to prove himself; and when he did against SA he had a very solid game behind a ****e Wales pack.
[/b][/quote]
Fury`s had all season to prove his worth at Irish, and hasnt done anything. If Coopers ahead of him at International level you know hes not the best.

Sir Speedy
13-06-08, 05:46 PM
Well like I said, he was injured a year ago and started the season as third choice. He&#39;d always be up against it competing against two good scrum-halves after recovering from an injury to get first choice. And picking Cooper ahead of him is just baffling imo.

danny
13-06-08, 09:02 PM
Well like I said, he was injured a year ago and started the season as third choice. He&#39;d always be up against it competing against two good scrum-halves after recovering from an injury to get first choice. And picking Cooper ahead of him is just baffling imo.
[/b]
believe me I will not defend Cooper. The guy has played like a drain for Glaws all season(when he has got a game) If you like Fury, best of luck. Personally I would like to see Wales win and I wish all of our Welsh members the best of luck. I know my sentiments will not be reciprecated but I dont mind.

Incredible Schalk
13-06-08, 09:17 PM
I&#39;m proud to hear Hugh Bladen will be commentating his 150th Test during the match as well, good gosh I&#39;ve missed his commentating, I wish he did every single game.
[/b]


Unfortunately we dont get Hugh for these test matches we get a couple or morons who call Watson -Spies. The main commentator,cant remember his name sounds like he&#39;s had a stroke.

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 10:30 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Well like I said, he was injured a year ago and started the season as third choice. He&#39;d always be up against it competing against two good scrum-halves after recovering from an injury to get first choice. And picking Cooper ahead of him is just baffling imo.
[/b]
believe me I will not defend Cooper. The guy has played like a drain for Glaws all season(when he has got a game) If you like Fury, best of luck. Personally I would like to see Wales win and I wish all of our Welsh members the best of luck. I know my sentiments will not be reciprecated but I dont mind.
[/b][/quote]
Sorry, what does the last sentence mean. I got lost there slightly. >.>

DasPadi
14-06-08, 01:03 PM
If Roberts&#39; passing and vision is up to task we could have a game on our hands. He can&#39;t be worse than Parker can he?

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 01:07 PM
If Roberts&#39; passing and vision is up to task we could have a game on our hands. He can&#39;t be worse than Parker can he?
[/b]
No. He&#39;d have to be pretty damn bad...

Penalty Wales at the breakdown...tis over! 0 - 3 to Wales.

Try to De Villiers after some neat obstruction by the ref... 7 - 3

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 01:29 PM
Neither side wants to defend by the looks of it. 14 - 10 to SA - try to both scrum halves.

Cool, I&#39;m the only one here. LALALALALALALALALALA *echo. echo. echo.*

Also, Hibbard can&#39;t throw in and Rhys Thomas can&#39;t scrummage. Both fek off nao plz.

MunsterMan
14-06-08, 01:36 PM
Coopers try was good.

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 01:37 PM
Shane Williams&#39; was much better. O.O Habana who?

rsea
14-06-08, 01:52 PM
Williams was brilliant

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 02:07 PM
Well this ref can sod the hell off - he&#39;ll be doing 30 minutes advantages next. ****.

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 02:24 PM
De Villiers is becoming Tom Shanklin&#39;s nightmare...

If we lose this now I blame it ALL on Tom Shanklin. His utter ****tyness in midifield and his Godawful touch-kicking has given SA the lead again...

23 - 21. The ref can get f***ed too, playing ridiculous advantages to SA...

SmokeyMonkey
14-06-08, 02:27 PM
FFS ref stop being such a f***ing f***wit! c***!

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 02:28 PM
Oh well, we came close at least. That certainly showed up the doubters from last week.

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 02:45 PM
ROFL. And you SH&#39;ers complain about the NH referees? This prat should be banned from officiating any game in the future. Utter bull****. Call me bitter but this ****** gifted you the game.
Shane > Habana.

SmokeyMonkey
14-06-08, 02:47 PM
Shane > Habana. [/b]

I was literally just gonna post that!

And the ref was nearly as bad as Pearson, f***ing shocking, I hope you Saffa&#39;s realise that.

You didn&#39;t beat us today the ref/scoreboard/TMO did. Unlucky boys! :bravo:

I&#39;m off out to **** some random chav.

Sir Speedy
14-06-08, 02:50 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Shane > Habana. [/b]

And the ref was nearly as bad as Pearson, f***ing shocking, I hope you Saffa&#39;s realise that.

[/b][/quote]
"Oh don&#39;t be stupid! You were never close to upsetting the great Springboks; how dare you suggest that. The referee was spot on all day and Shane Williams was ****." - Just prepare for that. :rolleyes:

noikz
14-06-08, 02:59 PM
Good game, some great defence on show, especally by the ref. ;)

dullonien
14-06-08, 03:02 PM
Thought the ref had a good first half, well apart from blocking Stephen Jones, ok then he had a **** first half! After that, my god, what a ******. Anyway enough about that.

SA just deserved to win that, their forwards were stronger, just, and their midfield were awesome again. Fair play to Reberts, he tackled like a beast, lost count of the amount of big hits he put in!

Yup, Shane was godlike again lol. That try was one of the best finishes I&#39;ve ever witnessed, to turn four defenders inside out like that, wow!

That is all for now.

Edit/ Think this post off 606 (yeah I know) sums Welsh peoples anger with the ref.


Well what an awful referee wales encountered 2day!!
First boks try hes in the way scrum 5 attcking ball!!
second try de villiers doesnt enter thru the bak hes straight in the side and he penalises wales for this offence all game especially when Jamie roberts is thrown through the side and penalty boks!! Terrible descision!!
finally try number 3 last i checked when there is a penalty for not going back 10 you r NOT allowed 2 take it quickly therefore well done to possibly the worst referee in world rugby!!
scoreline does no justice to an evn game all because of a load of rubbish from "an international referee"![/b]

Edit/ Edit/ I&#39;d like to point out that I&#39;m not actually bitter, not sure why not! I think SA were the better team and deserved the win. Wales were brave, but there&#39;s still too many mistakes in our game, linout being such a shambles it&#39;s not even funny!

shazbooger
14-06-08, 03:06 PM
Much better over last week. Good to see a pack competing up front with the Boks. Hard to maintain a physicality thats not your natural game and you did fall away in the end. Still, there was a stage there when it could have gone either way.

shtove
14-06-08, 03:13 PM
Entertaining - first 15 mins SA were playing basketball, looked they were going to walk it. The second try was a beaut, but I think Williams&#39; shaded it. Jones missing the penalty before half time - that&#39;s a no no. Januarie played a really good hurry-up game.

Wales were in with a shout, but after they mucked up the try chance under the posts on 55 mins not really. I&#39;m still disappointed with them - Gatland should have a better lineout than that, but more seriously the pack doesn&#39;t have the core strength and didn&#39;t really compare to SA when it came to scrapping on the ground.

Incredible Schalk
14-06-08, 03:23 PM
Why are Wales fans angry with the ref? he must have given Wales 10 penalties in the second half. It evened itself out although Bray is a uselss ref.

Great game, some nice tries. The games we have had today have been great to watch. Was dissapointed Chavanga in 160 minutes of rugby never got to run, Habana had to look for work and played well. Williams stepped beautifully and scored a great try.

Credit to the Welsh coaching team and the players that was an amazing turnaround. King Jean De Villiers showing why he&#39;s the best centre in the world. Really good test match and going into the tri nations the Boks seem strong. Although i think the AB&#39;s attacking is still better.

loratadine
14-06-08, 03:36 PM
What a f***ing joke of a referee, how many knocks on, hand in the rucks, and general cheating did he ping wales for but not the boks.
yes he did give us penatlies, but thats insignificant when he was given redicilous penatlies in the red zone for the boks, nd missing things like knocks on

what a dick

AND WHO IS HABANA? WHO IS HE??

f***ing shane ate him!!

BLR
14-06-08, 04:01 PM
New Zealand v France WC 07 Part 2. :D

nicolaas777
14-06-08, 04:51 PM
that really wasn&#39;t the best game from SA...wales played (much) better than last weekend but we didn&#39;t nearly do our best even if we still won by 16 points....




AND WHO IS HABANA? WHO IS HE??

f***ing shane ate him!!
[/b]

too bad he&#39;s the only guy you have...

Steve-o
14-06-08, 05:09 PM
43-17... Bloemfontein
37-21 ... Pretoria

Now, you don&#39;t lose Test matches like that because the ball, or the refs decision, didn&#39;t fall in your favour. So for FFS stop whining because crap decisions went both ways. There&#39;s no way Jones would of stopped a charging De Villiers, it was obstruction that made no difference.

Anyway, much improved performance by the Welsh. Basic errors were kept to a minimum.
Too say the Boks were trying to play a different gameplan is an understatement. They ran it out of their 22 more times than they kicked it. I&#39;m not sure I&#39;m happy with Matfield doing chips through from the wing. Our right wing is looking vulnerable with Chavhanga there, still very much a rough diamond. Bet that the Aussies and Kiwis picked that up.
With hindsight the Boks always played proper rugby and added points when they were needed.
I&#39;m not sure we can play this loose rugby in the Tri-Nations yet, I&#39;m not satisfied with the performance.

loratadine
14-06-08, 05:50 PM
we will have you in the autumn

we will have you

but yea congrats south africa

a much deserved test win

best of luck for the tri nations

gingergenius
14-06-08, 06:05 PM
43-17... Bloemfontein
37-21 ... Pretoria

Now, you don&#39;t lose Test matches like that because the ball, or the refs decision, didn&#39;t fall in your favour. So for FFS stop whining because crap decisions went both ways. There&#39;s no way Jones would of stopped a charging De Villiers, it was obstruction that made no difference.

Anyway, much improved performance by the Welsh. Basic errors were kept to a minimum.
Too say the Boks were trying to play a different gameplan is an understatement. They ran it out of their 22 more times than they kicked it. I&#39;m not sure I&#39;m happy with Matfield doing chips through from the wing. Our right wing is looking vulnerable with Chavhanga there, still very much a rough diamond. Bet that the Aussies and Kiwis picked that up.
With hindsight the Boks always played proper rugby and added points when they were needed.
I&#39;m not sure we can play this loose rugby in the Tri-Nations yet, I&#39;m not satisfied with the performance.
[/b]


I think every result we&#39;ve seen shows that atm, all the SH sides have to do is raise a finger and they take the game away. Which basically proves to me that the 6N was a poor tournament this season; there weren&#39;t any good teams in it... in fact, with the occasional exception of France and at times Ireland, I don&#39;t think there&#39;s been any outstanding team in Europe since 2003

Macsen
14-06-08, 06:59 PM
Well it was a much improved Wales from last week, buts I still don&#39;t think we were at the same level as the team that won the Grand Slam.

Looking at the other games today SA are clearly the best side in the SH but will probably narrowly lose the Tri Nations to NZ just because they have two matches at home.

Had this game been played at home and without all the injuries I think Wales would have beaten SA though. We&#39;ll soon find out!

loratadine
14-06-08, 07:24 PM
just cannot get over how good shane williams is

every time he gets the ball he looks dangerous

he surely now has to be considered as one of wales&#39; greatest players ever.

Cymro
14-06-08, 07:28 PM
Just watched the game and I am pleased with Wales effort in this test! The Boks once again showed why they are the World Champions but Wales did play well in spells!

I dont see why many of Welsh lads are moaning about the ref, the only two things was wrong was the first and last try for Wales, first one because he blocked Jones but would Jones have stopped him? Not really! The last try as someone mentioned the 10m rule but also could have given it as double movement because the player got up and moved whilst held but I cant complain because the Boks were the team that deserved the win.

At the end of the day I see Ref&#39;s obstructing loads of players from time to time and they way to stop it is to push them out of the way. Lads its not something to really blame the defeat on because ref&#39;s do make a few mistakes during games!

Now back to moan about the Welsh squad, my point was proven about Rhys Thomas, he failed to hold himself in the scrum, made mistakes in the lineout and he was just as mobile as Adam Jones was in the pack last game!

I felt Cooper did well and gave great service to the backs, Roberts looked good at 12 and Hook was a tidy player at 15. Dissapointment was to see Delve leave, bloke is unlucky with his injuries!

I feel the scoreline was not a fair reflection of the game but again the Boks played the best rugby and therefore won.

dullonien
14-06-08, 08:21 PM
Now back to moan about the Welsh squad, my point was proven about Rhys Thomas, he failed to hold himself in the scrum, made mistakes in the lineout and he was just as mobile as Adam Jones was in the pack last game![/b]



Yeah, he was deffinately pushed around in the scrum. But as you pointed out, he didn&#39;t appear in the loose enough to compensate for that. It was a mistake from Gatland not to start Adam Jones! Then again, Jones needs to be pushed for his place, he still needs to get in trim, dropping him for matches like this might be the motivation necessary!

Cymro
14-06-08, 08:39 PM
<div class='quotemain'> Now back to moan about the Welsh squad, my point was proven about Rhys Thomas, he failed to hold himself in the scrum, made mistakes in the lineout and he was just as mobile as Adam Jones was in the pack last game![/b]



Yeah, he was deffinately pushed around in the scrum. But as you pointed out, he didn&#39;t appear in the loose enough to compensate for that. It was a mistake from Gatland not to start Adam Jones! Then again, Jones needs to be pushed for his place, he still needs to get in trim, dropping him for matches like this might be the motivation necessary!

[/b][/quote]

Could not agree more, Adam is no where near the finished article but the way hes is dropping weight hopefully by next year we will see a bigger impact from him. But Adam does need pushing. But with the Horse about to regain full fitness there will be another 3 for that number 3 shirt!

Gay-Guy
14-06-08, 08:54 PM
At the end of the day I see Ref&#39;s obstructing loads of players from time to time and they way to stop it is to push them out of the way. Lads its not something to really blame the defeat on because ref&#39;s do make a few mistakes during games!
[/b]

In the Eng/NZ game the ref got in the way of the English halfback and virtually tackled him lol!

With S.A running the ball from their 22......perhaps they are seeing if they can play the expansive NZ game? It does look like they do know how to get the points when this type of running rugby from deep is not working...so at least they can fall back on that.

Cymro
14-06-08, 08:58 PM
<div class='quotemain'>At the end of the day I see Ref&#39;s obstructing loads of players from time to time and they way to stop it is to push them out of the way. Lads its not something to really blame the defeat on because ref&#39;s do make a few mistakes during games!
[/b]

In the Eng/NZ game the ref got in the way of the English halfback and virtually tackled him lol!

With S.A running the ball from their 22......perhaps they are seeing if they can play the expansive NZ game? It does look like they do know how to get the points when this type of running rugby from deep is not working...so at least they can fall back on that.

[/b][/quote]

Yes our Nige got a push :D

Thingimubob
14-06-08, 09:20 PM
just saw the game, ref wasn&#39;t superb, but meh, all sports fans like to moan about the ref. But this was the performance they should have put in last week, to maybe shake the Boks a bit. But yeah, SA showed why they&#39;re the World Champions. Shane...man, he&#39;s just brilliant, 4 Boks sent all over the place! Anybody get a GIF/Video of that? But yeah, Januerie&#39;s try was fanastic, great skill from Matfield (who looks wierd without a beard) and Watson (Still can&#39;t believe Stephen Jones only rated him 5/10 for the last test in the Times!) to create it. But yeah, I think a full strength Wales team is capable of beating them, especially in Cardiff. The Boks weren&#39;t perfect today, and were still impressive, can see them doing very well in the Tri-Nations. You have my support! Pob Lwc i chi, yr Springboks!

Incredible Schalk
14-06-08, 09:23 PM
Well it was a much improved Wales from last week, buts I still don&#39;t think we were at the same level as the team that won the Grand Slam.

Looking at the other games today SA are clearly the best side in the SH but will probably narrowly lose the Tri Nations to NZ just because they have two matches at home.

Had this game been played at home and without all the injuries I think Wales would have beaten SA though. We&#39;ll soon find out!
[/b]


I was more impressed with Wales today than in any 6 nations match. They competed superbly in what is one of the most difficult atmospheres in the world to play in against the world champions and they matched them for an hour. There&#39;s nothing to choose between the Boks and the All Blacks although i would say the AB&#39;s would edge it with their more fluent attacks. Im not to sure the Springboks will be happy, the win was good but the performance except the first 20 was very patchy and littered with mistakes and turnovers.

loratadine
14-06-08, 09:27 PM
i love shane williams

Thingimubob
14-06-08, 09:57 PM
i love shane williams [/b]

don&#39;t we all? well, ok, apart from Ripper and Prestwick, who think he&#39;s a &#39;midget&#39;. 5&#39;8&#39;&#39; isn&#39;t THAT short, just is compared to the likes of Roberts and Matfield.
heh, I even have a claim to Shane fame, my parents come from the same place as him, and my little cousin plays for Shane&#39;s old club&#39;s (Amman United RFC) u11&#39;s.

KZNSharksFan
14-06-08, 10:25 PM
just saw the game, ref wasn&#39;t superb, but meh, all sports fans like to moan about the ref. But this was the performance they should have put in last week, to maybe shake the Boks a bit. But yeah, SA showed why they&#39;re the World Champions. Shane...man, he&#39;s just brilliant, 4 Boks sent all over the place! Anybody get a GIF/Video of that? But yeah, Januerie&#39;s try was fanastic, great skill from Matfield (who looks wierd without a beard) and Watson (Still can&#39;t believe Stephen Jones only rated him 5/10 for the last test in the Times!) to create it. But yeah, I think a full strength Wales team is capable of beating them, especially in Cardiff. The Boks weren&#39;t perfect today, and were still impressive, can see them doing very well in the Tri-Nations. You have my support! Pob Lwc i chi, yr Springboks!
[/b]

It&#39;s nice to hear a welshman not blaming wales&#39; loss on the ref!! I would understand if the points margin was a bit closer! Come on, some of you guys ripped into the AB&#39;s supporters for their grievances over Wayne Barnes! They were at least justified in their moaning.


Anyway, i think Wales studied SA&#39;s game very well and disrupted them effectively. Shane williams was superb, bloody Chavhanga should not play against Aus or NZ, he can&#39;t catch consistently and he can&#39;t defend. I am very disappointed with SA, they showed flashes of brilliance, then got cocky and had their hand smacked like a naughty 5 year old. They played like it was round-bloody-one of the super 14. PDV, is really ******* me off with his new "we&#39;ll run the AB&#39;s off their feet" approach to rugby. Don&#39;t break something that works well you buffoon!!

gingergenius
14-06-08, 11:23 PM
just cannot get over how good shane williams is

every time he gets the ball he looks dangerous

he surely now has to be considered as one of wales&#39; greatest players ever.
[/b]

yes. wales have lacked a good back 3 player since ieuan(sp?) evans. A few years ago he was meh, he did the odd good thing amidst a bunch of awful ****e. Now he&#39;s world class. I still think Henson&#39;s quality as well.

A shame Williams is 31 already...

dullonien
14-06-08, 11:27 PM
Don&#39;t confuse complaining about the ref as blaming the ref for us loosing. We were perfectly within our rights to have a good old moan after being on the wrong end of two below par reffing displays.

I think every Welsh supporter here has said that SA deserved the win, they were the better team over the 80mins. Wales contributed waaay more to their loss than the ref. Our linouts deprived us of almost all our attacking platform, coupled with a poor scrum today meant we shouldn&#39;t of been within reach after 60min, let alone in the lead!

What kept us in the game? Our defence, today you saw what alot of us were harping on about before last weeks game. Wales are a physical team, who is capable of fronting up, not sure what happened last week, but today they proved themselves.

Just a pitty we can&#39;t find one hooker who can throw (though I thought SA linout jumping was quite spectacular, forcing mistakes). When we have Martyn Williams back in at 7 (still ned a proper openside cover), Phillips at scrum half who will match any SA forward for physicallity, Henson at 12 to organise our backline and create space out wide, and finally Lee Burne back as a rock at 15 who relieves pressure with a huge boot we should put up a much better fight.

Wales have got a long way to go, but were steadily progressing. It was nice to see the change in the Welsh players today, they started to believe they could win that match midway through the second half, but alas SA at home are too good at the moment, and will be for a couple more years I think.

Macsen
14-06-08, 11:27 PM
It&#39;s nice to hear a welshman not blaming wales&#39; loss on the ref!![/b]
When did you hear the other 2,399,00 other Welshmen blame the result on the ref?

loratadine
14-06-08, 11:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5toS6k2jkNQ



enough said

dullonien
15-06-08, 12:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5toS6k2jkNQ



enough said

[/b]

We still lost though :wah:



We&#39;ve seen how important Henson is on this tour imo. Shane Williams wasn&#39;t really on the end of enough backline moves. Without Henson we can&#39;t seem to create enough space out wide for the lethal finisher. 1 on 1, that&#39;s all we need to create, because at the moment he&#39;ll skin the last defender (or four) every time.

Steve-o
15-06-08, 06:21 AM
<div class='quotemain'>It&#39;s nice to hear a welshman not blaming wales&#39; loss on the ref!![/b]
When did you hear the other 2,399,00 other Welshmen blame the result on the ref?
[/b][/quote]
Actually that would be 2,949,999.
Go onto the Scrum V or 606; OR you can just read some of the previous posts on here.

And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
Habana had a soild game by all accounts, unfortunately for him he was marked out of the game (that&#39;s why we were slicing the mid field so often) but cut in field a few times and showed his strength by mixing it up with the bigger guys.

Incredible Schalk
15-06-08, 08:10 AM
I was really dissapointed with Chavanga in the two tests, especially yesterday. Showed awful technique under the high ball and got turned over a few times leading to the Williams try. I dont think he will get away with it against the All Blacks so i think he should be atleast benched. Remember he had been injured for months before going straight into the first test.

danny
15-06-08, 08:16 AM
I was really dissapointed with Chavanga in the two tests, especially yesterday. Showed awful technique under the high ball and got turned over a few times leading to the Williams try. I dont think he will get away with it against the All Blacks so i think he should be atleast benched. Remember he had been injured for months before going straight into the first test.
[/b]
yeah, Chavanga will have to go for the Tri-nations due to not only defence but his lack of workrate. I still feel he would be a good guy to bring off the bench but he must be given the ball in space to prosper.

nelson
15-06-08, 08:44 AM
chavhanga really does need the ball with enough space to really show his full potential ... to burn his speed

Gay-Guy
15-06-08, 08:53 AM
And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.

Steve-o
15-06-08, 09:14 AM
I was really dissapointed with Chavanga in the two tests, especially yesterday. Showed awful technique under the high ball and got turned over a few times leading to the Williams try. I dont think he will get away with it against the All Blacks so i think he should be atleast benched. Remember he had been injured for months before going straight into the first test.
[/b]
That&#39;s true hey, forgot about that. He was in superb form before he got injured (grade 2 hamstring tear) and didn&#39;t train on Monday or Tuesday because of small niggles from the 1st Test. Ndungane should get a run against Italy.




Beast played ok in his debut, held the scrum better than Mujati. We need to get our best props out on the park, J du Plessis and vd Merwe (2 strongest scrummagers in SA) should replace Beast and Mujati (2 most dynamic props in SA). Can&#39;t help but think our scrum is going the Australian route with the 2 Zimbabweans in the mix.

silent_shadow
15-06-08, 09:59 AM
Not the best game after the first 20 minutes. We tried to do too much I think. Chavanga has been disappointing this series, but then again Wales have closed him and Habana off very well and Habana hasn&#39;t done much better. Hopefully he&#39;ll play well against Italy and regain his confidence. Jacobs unsurprisingly gave way under pressure and did nothing on defense, I&#39;d rather have Steyn at 12 with Jean at 13. Smit was bad especially after his good game last week. And I think Percy should&#39;ve gone on much earlier or started at least. Was I the only one disappointed about Spies? I didn&#39;t think he did much last week and he was worse this week. Beast started off very well but then also played badly after the first 20 minutes. Bekker played very well when he came on. I really hate to say this, but... I missed Bolla and his quick service, it suits the game we want to play much better. Du Preez&#39;s also quite slow though so I guess it&#39;s something we&#39;ll have to handle.

Despite not playing our best, I was still never worried about losing the game. I was sure find a way to win comfortably, it&#39;s a nice habit we picked up during the WC.

Steve-o
15-06-08, 10:57 AM
I&#39;ve always been suspect about Januaries&#39; little one two skip he does to gain momentum in the pass, and he can&#39;t pass both ways without repositioning. If you dig up some threads last year you&#39;ll see I highlighted it. Pienaar is the answer for No.9
As much as I like Jacobs play at the Sharks, he got found out today, much like Conradie (the most one dimension scrumie in contention) will be during the Tri-nations. These 2 weren&#39;t international standard when they got their debuts 4-5 years ago and they aren&#39;t now.

dullonien
15-06-08, 11:03 AM
Wish we could say that our 7th choice (as some have said Conradie was) is&#39;t international class after playing like he did in the first test. It just showes how up against it we are, the srength in depth is unbelievable.

shtove
15-06-08, 12:14 PM
<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.

[/b][/quote]
That&#39;s a risky little game - Welsh dragons will breathe fire upon you.

Steve-o
15-06-08, 12:21 PM
Wish we could say that our 7th choice (as some have said Conradie was) is&#39;t international class after playing like he did in the first test. It just showes how up against it we are, the srength in depth is unbelievable.
[/b]
I think that was only me rating him as a 5th choice in SA, 7th choice including Claasens (Bath) and de Kock (Sarries) :D . It was a one off lucky game against an under performing Wales, mere coincidence imo, he&#39;s been average for years. My Western Province supporting comrades have forgotten that though and aren&#39;t even acknowledging that Kockett kicked both Januaries and Conradies ass in the S14!! :P

Thingimubob
15-06-08, 12:49 PM
<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.

[/b][/quote]

Come on, you gotta admit, he&#39;s up there with the best. And Joost van der Westhuizen (sp?) said to S4C&#39;s correspondants that Shane&#39;s probably better than Habana at teh moment, because Shane creates his own tries as well as being a superb finisher, while Habana generally needs other good players around him to create the space for him. Not taking anything away from Habana, the guy is fantastic, it&#39;s just if you think about it, Habana has had better quality players around him over the years, so doesn&#39;t exactly need to create his own tries, while Shane&#39;s been through the really bad years with Wales, so has had to be able to create his tries to help his country actually win something. And now that the players around Shane are steadily improving, he is more than capable of creating tries for himself, having easy run ins created for him and creating tries for those players around him (for example, being involved three times in the build up to Roberts try in the 1st test). So give him the respect he deserves, any decent Rugby fan can (unlike those on 606...)
And d&#39;you really think that Sivivatu or Habana could have streaked in a try from 50 meters down the line with 4 players less than a metre or two from the touchline? I don&#39;t think so.

Steve-o
15-06-08, 01:25 PM
Both Habana and Williams create tries and finish off tries after somebody else has done the hard work. Any decent rugby supporter would acknowledge that.
Williams&#39; try yesterday was NOT created by him, it was very much an opportunistic try that he finished off superbly. He was not 50 meters out, and you do know that the 1st dotted line next to the touchline is the 5m line and the 2nd dotted line is the 15m line, right? ALL of the players were well behind the 15m line. Stop stretching the truth.
Habana has a better strike rate and has done more in the last 4 years than Williams has done in his entire career, so stop acting like after 2 solid non-try scoring games all of a sudden he&#39;s not a world class player and prolific try scorer anymore.

Christ I&#39;m happy we don&#39;t have to put up with you guys (the barrel scrapers) until November.

Thingimubob
15-06-08, 02:06 PM
Both Habana and Williams create tries and finish off tries after somebody else has done the hard work. Any decent rugby supporter would acknowledge that.
Williams&#39; try yesterday was NOT created by him, it was very much an opportunistic try that he finished off superbly. He was not 50 meters out, and you do know that the 1st dotted line next to the touchline is the 5m line and the 2nd dotted line is the 15m line, right? ALL of the players were well behind the 15m line. Stop stretching the truth.
Habana has a better strike rate and has done more in the last 4 years than Williams has done in his entire career, so stop acting like after 2 solid non-try scoring games all of a sudden he&#39;s not a world class player and prolific try scorer anymore.

Christ I&#39;m happy we don&#39;t have to put up with you guys (the barrel scrapers) until November. [/b]

calm down! everyone&#39;s entitled to a bloody opinion, and I&#39;d say skinning 4 defenders is pretty creative. All I meant was atm, I reckon Shane&#39;s a bit better. And sorry I wasn&#39;t attentive enough, just thought they were a bit closer! All I meant was that I doubt Habana or SIvivatu would have reached the line in a straight sprint, and would have had to try and step inside. And when did I say Habana wasn&#39;t a world class player and not a prolific try scorer? Did I not say he&#39;s fantastic (which I&#39;ve always thought) or did you just blot that detail out for the sake of having a go at me and calling be a &#39;barrel scraper&#39;? As I said, Habana is brilliant, but atm, I think Shane&#39;s probably better. And I&#39;m not a barrel scraper, I&#39;m just expressing my opinion on Shane Williams, who&#39;s been my favourite player for god knows how long.

gingergenius
15-06-08, 02:16 PM
<div class='quotemain'> Both Habana and Williams create tries and finish off tries after somebody else has done the hard work. Any decent rugby supporter would acknowledge that.
Williams&#39; try yesterday was NOT created by him, it was very much an opportunistic try that he finished off superbly. He was not 50 meters out, and you do know that the 1st dotted line next to the touchline is the 5m line and the 2nd dotted line is the 15m line, right? ALL of the players were well behind the 15m line. Stop stretching the truth.
Habana has a better strike rate and has done more in the last 4 years than Williams has done in his entire career, so stop acting like after 2 solid non-try scoring games all of a sudden he&#39;s not a world class player and prolific try scorer anymore.

Christ I&#39;m happy we don&#39;t have to put up with you guys (the barrel scrapers) until November. [/b]

calm down! everyone&#39;s entitled to a bloody opinion, and I&#39;d say skinning 4 defenders is pretty creative. All I meant was atm, I reckon Shane&#39;s a bit better. And sorry I wasn&#39;t attentive enough, just thought they were a bit closer! All I meant was that I doubt Habana or SIvivatu would have reached the line in a straight sprint, and would have had to try and step inside. And when did I say Habana wasn&#39;t a world class player and not a prolific try scorer? Did I not say he&#39;s fantastic (which I&#39;ve always thought) or did you just blot that detail out for the sake of having a go at me and calling be a &#39;barrel scraper&#39;? As I said, Habana is brilliant, but atm, I think Shane&#39;s probably better. And I&#39;m not a barrel scraper, I&#39;m just expressing my opinion on Shane Williams, who&#39;s been my favourite player for god knows how long.
[/b][/quote]

I&#39;ll come in from a neutral POV and say at this exact point in time Shane Williams is the best wing in international rugby, on form.

However, rather than being helped by having good players around you it helps Williams that he&#39;s the only guy with speed in the Welsh backline. He doesn&#39;t play as a conventional winger, he pops up everywhere and goes looking for the ball. SA have linebreakers throughout their backline, Habana isn&#39;t their go-to guy. Williams is made to look better by the fact that he does a hell of a lot of work for Wales that other wingers don&#39;t have to do... fair play to him for it.

Habana&#39;s got the same thing as Jason Robinson had for a period in his England career - the opposition have realised he&#39;s world class and have marked him out of the game. He&#39;ll have to learn, like Robinson did, how to work around this.

shazbooger
15-06-08, 02:26 PM
I&#39;ll come in from a neutral POV and say at this exact point in time Shane Williams is the best wing in international rugby, on form.[/b] I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.

He&#39;s 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I&#39;d say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I&#39;d prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.

silent_shadow
15-06-08, 03:46 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Wish we could say that our 7th choice (as some have said Conradie was) is&#39;t international class after playing like he did in the first test. It just showes how up against it we are, the srength in depth is unbelievable.
[/b]
I think that was only me rating him as a 5th choice in SA, 7th choice including Claasens (Bath) and de Kock (Sarries) :D . It was a one off lucky game against an under performing Wales, mere coincidence imo, he&#39;s been average for years. My Western Province supporting comrades have forgotten that though and aren&#39;t even acknowledging that Kockett kicked both Januaries and Conradies ass in the S14!! :P [/b][/quote]

De Kock was terrbile when he played for us, how can you judge someone based on a totally different competition overseas? He&#39;s been below average for years. Pienaar&#39;s also too slow, so I don&#39;t see how you think he&#39;d fare better. I would&#39;ve also preferred Kockett&#39;s quick service in this game.
How about not bringing provincialism into everything? You&#39;re the only bok supporter doing it. And Januarie played MUCH better than Kockett in the Super 14, I can&#39;t think of anyone besides you who thought otherwise. Kockett was disappointing when he started in place of Pienaar. Hence, why I rate Vermaak better. Bolla had a good game simply put. Gareth Edwards himself said that Bolla played well and would be unlucky to be dropped. How about giving some credit when it&#39;s due?

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 04:15 PM
Ok, reading the Western Mail today everyone seems to think the ref was shocking; Gatland especially. The turning point was when AWJ &#39;knocked the ball on&#39; 1 metre from the SA tryline, whereas during video analysis Gatland apparantly saw hands in the ruck. But whatever. There&#39;s always the home Autumn tests with our full strength squad with a decent referee who doesn&#39;t play 2 minute advantages to SA compared to Wales&#39; 10 seconds. Prat.



<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
[/b][/quote]
So basically you&#39;re saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He&#39;s the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.



I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.

He&#39;s 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I&#39;d say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I&#39;d prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.
[/b]
Williams has scored only 1 try against you (I assume by "us" you meant Ireland) so I don&#39;t see the problem. <_<
And you&#39;d have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn&#39;t call a knock-on on SA&#39;s line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.

SaintsFan_Webby
15-06-08, 04:15 PM
How about giving some credit when it&#39;s due?
[/b]

Oh the irony. De Kock has been consistently excellent for Saracens over the last two seasons yet you dismiss him out of hand because he&#39;s playing abroad. That&#39;s equally narrow minded as any provincial rivalries.

gingergenius
15-06-08, 05:01 PM
Ok, reading the Western Mail today everyone seems to think the ref was shocking; Gatland especially. The turning point was when AWJ &#39;knocked the ball on&#39; 1 metre from the SA tryline, whereas during video analysis Gatland apparantly saw hands in the ruck. But whatever. There&#39;s always the home Autumn tests with our full strength squad with a decent referee who doesn&#39;t play 2 minute advantages to SA compared to Wales&#39; 10 seconds. Prat.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
[/b][/quote]
So basically you&#39;re saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He&#39;s the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.



I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.

He&#39;s 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I&#39;d say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I&#39;d prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.
[/b]
Williams has scored only 1 try against you (I assume by "us" you meant Ireland) so I don&#39;t see the problem. <_<
And you&#39;d have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn&#39;t call a knock-on on SA&#39;s line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.
[/b][/quote]

Fans who moan about referees are so tedious.

Also, in your attempts to make out that SW is the best winger in the world you appear to be trying to show how crap Habana is... why not reach the conclusion that they&#39;re both sick wingers, one may be a little quicker, the other may have a better step.... doesn&#39;t matter. They both score hatfuls of tries and their teams are lucky to have them.

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 05:10 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Ok, reading the Western Mail today everyone seems to think the ref was shocking; Gatland especially. The turning point was when AWJ &#39;knocked the ball on&#39; 1 metre from the SA tryline, whereas during video analysis Gatland apparantly saw hands in the ruck. But whatever. There&#39;s always the home Autumn tests with our full strength squad with a decent referee who doesn&#39;t play 2 minute advantages to SA compared to Wales&#39; 10 seconds. Prat.

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> And on Williams&#39; try, once again getting way too much after the ball got accidently kicked out the ruck onto his wing, with only Smit covering the ruck fringe (where was Chavhanga? again?) after that he showed awesome foot work and brilliant changes in direction to wrap up Watson (no.6), Spies (no.8) and Botha (no.4) before a diving tackle from Jacobs (13).
[/b]

Ummmm.....I hate to be a killer but....Williams is good but not in the class of a true paceman cos really if other wings like Habana or Sivivatu had gotten that ball then they would have simply run straight to the line and around towards the posts. Watson, Spies and Botha would never have had a chance to even dive and Jacobs would have given up the race way before the line.
[/b][/quote]
So basically you&#39;re saying Shane Williams skinned them without tremendous pace? He&#39;s the best winger in the World because he has the speed of mind to do the right thing in those situations. Habana, if he had all those defenders in front of him, would never had side-stepped his way to the line.



I agree. I dont like the guy (for no other reason then he scores against us too much), I dont like the Welsh team that much (preferred them when they lost to us all the time), not even a big fan of the Welsh contributors on the board (well some of the younger, more militant referee bashers anyway), but I dont think anyone could say that he is not the form winger in the world game at this time.

He&#39;s 31 now and its taken him a long time to get there so I&#39;d say over their respective careers, Habana has been more effective, but at the moment I&#39;d prefer Williams in my fantasy team to Habana.
[/b]
Williams has scored only 1 try against you (I assume by "us" you meant Ireland) so I don&#39;t see the problem. <_<
And you&#39;d have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn&#39;t call a knock-on on SA&#39;s line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning.
[/b][/quote]

Fans who moan about referees are so tedious.

Also, in your attempts to make out that SW is the best winger in the world you appear to be trying to show how crap Habana is... why not reach the conclusion that they&#39;re both sick wingers, one may be a little quicker, the other may have a better step.... doesn&#39;t matter. They both score hatfuls of tries and their teams are lucky to have them.
[/b][/quote]
Doesn&#39;t change the fact that Shane > Habana on current form. :rolleyes: And if you&#39;d read Gay Guy&#39;s post, he was doing the same to Shane Williams (making him out to be crap) in a way that made no sense.
Also, when a referee makes blatant errors I think I have a right to be ****** off. Or should I accept that a 37 - 21 loss is a fair reflection on the game? :lol: South Africa are better than Wales on current form, no doubt, but there were definately occasions where the referee butchered the game with 50/50 decisions or decisions that were completely unfair.
At least we&#39;re in the best position of all the NH teams right now; I can barely wait for the Autumn Tests.

Bull
15-06-08, 05:18 PM
The ref was definitely crap but I won&#39;t say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we&#39;ll be ready.

Habana > Williams

Steve-o
15-06-08, 05:18 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Wish we could say that our 7th choice (as some have said Conradie was) is&#39;t international class after playing like he did in the first test. It just showes how up against it we are, the srength in depth is unbelievable.
[/b]
I think that was only me rating him as a 5th choice in SA, 7th choice including Claasens (Bath) and de Kock (Sarries) :D . It was a one off lucky game against an under performing Wales, mere coincidence imo, he&#39;s been average for years. My Western Province supporting comrades have forgotten that though and aren&#39;t even acknowledging that Kockett kicked both Januaries and Conradies ass in the S14!! :P [/b][/quote]

De Kock was terrbile when he played for us, how can you judge someone based on a totally different competition overseas? He&#39;s been below average for years. Pienaar&#39;s also too slow, so I don&#39;t see how you think he&#39;d fare better. I would&#39;ve also preferred Kockett&#39;s quick service in this game.
How about not bringing provincialism into everything? You&#39;re the only bok supporter doing it. And Januarie played MUCH better than Kockett in the Super 14, I can&#39;t think of anyone besides you who thought otherwise. Kockett was disappointing when he started in place of Pienaar. Hence, why I rate Vermaak better. Bolla had a good game simply put. Gareth Edwards himself said that Bolla played well and would be unlucky to be dropped. How about giving some credit when it&#39;s due?
[/b][/quote]

Oh come on, didn&#39;t you see the " :P " at the end? What more must I do?! I&#39;ve always given any Stormer support sick, and probably will to the end of my days.

And just BTW Kockett & Januarie was definitely the form SA scrum-halves in the S14, Januarie would get the nod from me due to his existing international experience but Kockett should definitely be in the Bok squad. WAAAAAY ahead of Conradie.. I&#39;m not sure what you&#39;re suggesting about Kockett replacing Pienaar during the S14... Pienaar was injured for a few weeks and was kept out of a starting spot due to him being out played by Kockett, which take some doing considering Muirs rotation policy.

I&#39;m not that bias on provincialism though, I&#39;ve said I don&#39;t think Beast (who made planet rugbys S14 team of 2008), Jacobs, Conradie and Mujati cut it at international level (yet in Beast&#39;s and Mujati&#39;s case) that makes 2 Sharks players and 2 Stormers players. :blink:

It&#39;s quite clear PdV favours Cape based players, like when he added Dollie to Bok squad. A fly-half that&#39;s smaller than Shane Williams, and has only played Vodacom Cup rugby on a consistent basis, and not even a S14 cap to his name! I guess every coach has favourite players though, White liked Willemse and Miesiekind for some reason, and PdV seems to like Conradie and Jacobs.

We&#39;ll see how well those 2 hold up in the Tri-Nations, I expect Conradie to implode personally. And sure the Kiwi&#39;s and Aussie&#39;s are partically happy that he&#39;s in the squad.

Please, if any member from NZ or AUS disagree with me, do make a post. I&#39;d like to see if my bias is really that bad (not ruling it out).

Would you like your team to face Kockett/ Pienaar/ Vermaak/ du Preez/ Januarie or Conradie?

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 05:56 PM
The ref was definitely crap but I won&#39;t say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we&#39;ll be ready.

Habana > Williams
[/b]
No effect? What about when SA used hands in the ruck when we were a metre from your line? Or the time where, after a good minute advantage, Shane Williams had to be called back after SA had dropped the ball and he had kicked it forward for a possible breakaway score (still, the advantage was ridiculous)? I&#39;d say his decisions were very effective in favour of SA, especially since if he had pinged you for hands in the ruck, you would have been yellow-carded.
But whatever. I&#39;m sounding too bitter and annoying here so I&#39;ll stop. I&#39;m glad we have three tests in the Autumn against the big three. This should be a real test for us, and one or two or even three scalps would do us hella good. :D
Also Shane = Habana. Lets leave it at that. <_< (....not).

Steve-o
15-06-08, 06:07 PM
Shane Williams got called back because he stepped on the line before dispatching his kick, the touch judge raised the flag, but the ref didn&#39;t notice it immediately.

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 06:09 PM
Shane Williams got called back because he stepped on the line before dispatching his kick, the touch judge raised the flag, but the ref didn&#39;t notice it immediately.
[/b]
Was that directed at me and my long advantage quip? If so then you&#39;ve misunderstood me; I wa talking about another instance.

Steve-o
15-06-08, 06:15 PM
Yeah, I didn&#39;t read your sentence properly, I was thinking of another instance.

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 06:19 PM
Edit: Or are you talking about something else?
[/b]
I think it was the penalty which took SA 23 - 21 in front. Beforehand, SA dropped the ball and Shane Williams chipped ahead and gave chase. At least I think. Actually, watching it again, nothing was on and it was actually when SA went 20 - 15 in front. Ignore me then. :C Although I was right with the other dodgy decision: where the referee deemed AWJ had knocked the ball on, SA had in fact stolen it illegally. Nevermind though, eh? <_<

shazbooger
15-06-08, 06:38 PM
And you&#39;d have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn&#39;t call a knock-on on SA&#39;s line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning. [/b] Ahhh look man, I hear what your saying but this is the second thread in a row when youve done little but talking up Wales, complain about the referee without really looking at how bloody good South Africa are.

In the same way, the Irish could be whinging about the numerous decisions that went Australia&#39;s way earlier on Saturday (two 5 metre scrums for Ireland and two free kicks against us? Against the Aussie scrum? Give me a break). However, they either even themselves out during a game, or later in the season and they rarely have a big impact on a scoreline. I watched both games and while Wales were better in the second test, they were nowhere near good enough to beat South Africa.

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 07:05 PM
<div class='quotemain'> And you&#39;d have to be a blind man to not notice how one-sided that referee was. We probably would have lost the game later, perhaps, but if the knob didn&#39;t call a knock-on on SA&#39;s line when video analysis has proven there were hands in the ruck then we would have had a brilliant chance of closing the game out and perhaps winning. [/b] Ahhh look man, I hear what your saying but this is the second thread in a row when youve done little but talking up Wales, complain about the referee without really looking at how bloody good South Africa are.

In the same way, the Irish could be whinging about the numerous decisions that went Australia&#39;s way earlier on Saturday (two 5 metre scrums for Ireland and two free kicks against us? Against the Aussie scrum? Give me a break). However, they either even themselves out during a game, or later in the season and they rarely have a big impact on a scoreline. I watched both games and while Wales were better in the second test, they were nowhere near good enough to beat South Africa.
[/b][/quote]
Sorry, but where in this thread, apart from after the game, have I talked up Wales? To be honest, if you can&#39;t see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that&#39;s your problem I&#39;m afraid. And where have I said we&#39;re better than SA or that SA aren&#39;t a good side? If you check, you&#39;ll see I said that they are better than us...Point is, we could have won that game, simple as.
"Nowhere good enough to beat South Africa", is the overstatement of the decade. Just that instant which I&#39;ve picked on numerous times here: where the referee deemed that AWJ had knocked on the ball metres from the SA line when it had been stolen illegally is enough to prove that the ref made a dodgy and match-changing decision. In all fairness, the final score greatly flattered SA; we were much better than the scoreline suggests.

shazbooger
15-06-08, 07:51 PM
To be honest, if you can&#39;t see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that&#39;s your problem I&#39;m afraid. [/b] The scary thing is you really do believe that dont you? Then again I suppose your right ................ if when you say "one of the best" you mean one of the top ................. eh ......................10?

Sir Speedy
15-06-08, 07:54 PM
<div class='quotemain'> To be honest, if you can&#39;t see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that&#39;s your problem I&#39;m afraid. [/b] The scary thing is you really do believe that dont you? Then again I suppose your right ................ if when you say "one of the best" you mean one of the top ................. eh ......................10?
[/b][/quote]
:lol: Well you&#39;re already openly admitted that you hate Wales, so carry on buddy you&#39;re giving me a good laugh.

loratadine
15-06-08, 08:37 PM
Habana > Williams


lmaoooo what a joke? you are joking right? ye?

ummmmmm shane williams is the best winger in the world at the moment full stop

maybe its a welsh thing, but we like our wingers to entertain to jink, to step and to genuinely leave defenders looking stupid... if i want to see a "paceman" ill watch the olympics thankyou very much

i wonder if habana would score 43 tries in 56 games playing for largely a **** team that lost most of its games to be honest.

and i would agree... we aint one of the best at the moment id say its kind of like this

south africa
new zealand



australia argentina wales

england france

ireland

scotland

dullonien
15-06-08, 09:00 PM
What the hell&#39;s going on in here then?

To be honest with you, some stupid remarks are being chucked around by everyone at the moment! Comments like Gay-Guy&#39;s who obviously dislikes Shane Williams, fair enough if you do, but don&#39;t make out he hasn&#39;t been one of the best players in the world so far this year, almost every pundit and nautral believe so!

Just don&#39;t get people who have to bash someone just for the hell of it, knowing full well it&#39;ll enrage others! He&#39;s scored in almost every match since the begining of the world cup (v England being the exception), 2 in quite a few actually! Added to that he&#39;s been immense in defence, not letting anyone past. How much more does a player have to do? It&#39;s just unbelievable!

In the end, if it was meant to be a wum, then fair enough. But I really hope not, as this is the last decent rugby forum, every other is overrun with ******s and hatred, where 90% of the posts are wum&#39;s fishing for response.

Well, end of another rant. Sorry, their getting quite regular now, lol.

Cymro
15-06-08, 09:06 PM
What the hell&#39;s going on in here then?

To be honest with you, some stupid remarks are being chucked around by everyone at the moment! Comments like Gay-Guy&#39;s who obviously dislikes Shane Williams, fair enough if you do, but don&#39;t make out he hasn&#39;t been one of the best players in the world so far this year, almost every pundit and nautral believe so!

Just don&#39;t get people who have to bash someone just for the hell of it, knowing full well it&#39;ll enrage others! He&#39;s scored in almost every match since the begining of the world cup (v England being the exception), 2 in quite a few actually! Added to that he&#39;s been immense in defence, not letting anyone past. How much more does a player have to do? It&#39;s just unbelievable!

In the end, if it was meant to be a wum, then fair enough. But I really hope not, as this is the last decent rugby forum, every other is overrun with ******s and hatred, where 90% of the posts are wum&#39;s fishing for response.

Well, end of another rant. Sorry, their getting quite regular now, lol. [/b]

Sums it up really

BLR
16-06-08, 02:10 AM
I think you need to all have a big group hug and get on with it, let the results speak for themselves...

Dmx#1
16-06-08, 02:30 AM
People calm down and lets be realistic for once

Habana>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>S.Williams

nam97
16-06-08, 06:10 AM
What the hell&#39;s going on in here then?

To be honest with you, some stupid remarks are being chucked around by everyone at the moment! Comments like Gay-Guy&#39;s who obviously dislikes Shane Williams, fair enough if you do, but don&#39;t make out he hasn&#39;t been one of the best players in the world so far this year, almost every pundit and nautral believe so!

Just don&#39;t get people who have to bash someone just for the hell of it, knowing full well it&#39;ll enrage others! He&#39;s scored in almost every match since the begining of the world cup (v England being the exception), 2 in quite a few actually! Added to that he&#39;s been immense in defence, not letting anyone past. How much more does a player have to do? It&#39;s just unbelievable!

In the end, if it was meant to be a wum, then fair enough. But I really hope not, as this is the last decent rugby forum, every other is overrun with ******s and hatred, where 90% of the posts are wum&#39;s fishing for response.

Well, end of another rant. Sorry, their getting quite regular now, lol.
[/b]

It&#39;s because Willaims is Welsh and no one recognizes Welsh talent for what it&#39;s worth. Although I do agree he has been brilliant, the more I watch him the more I appreciate him. The only let down for me is that he never shows when we play him.

Steve-o
16-06-08, 06:59 AM
This thread is going nowhere atm, last 3 pages have mostly been about the ref and Williams vs Habana (not pointing a finger at any Welsh member.. promise!).
Why are we not discussing stuff like Matfields MOTM performance or Jean De Villiers&#39; 4 tries in 2 games? Seriously.

I&#39;d also like to ask a question, Wales said they were coming to SA to gain respect from the Boks. Do you feel after the 2 Test matches they have done this?

Personally I think only Shane Williams gained more respect, and your captain has lost respect. But I think the team as a whole is pretty much indifferent. I don&#39;t think public in general will remember this team. 43-17 and 37-21 don&#39;t stand out compared to previous years. Ticket sales didn&#39;t do well because alot of people feel it was too expensive for a 2nd tier team (with all due respect).

KZNSharksFan
16-06-08, 08:25 AM
Doesn&#39;t change the fact that Shane > Habana on current form. :rolleyes: Also, when a referee makes blatant errors I think I have a right to be ****** off. Or should I accept that a 37 - 21 loss is a fair reflection on the game? :lol: South Africa are better than Wales on current form, no doubt, but there were definately occasions where the referee butchered the game with 50/50 decisions or decisions that were completely unfair.
[/b]

I think you&#39;re being a bit too bloody........ welsh :wah:


To be honest, if you can&#39;t see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that&#39;s your problem I&#39;m afraid.
[/b]

Now i know you&#39;re a comedian :D

Dmx#1
16-06-08, 08:27 AM
It&#39;s funny that when NZers complain about a ref and have a legitimate argument for poor refereeing decisions everybody else tends to throw it under the rug and tell new zealanders to &#39;harden up&#39; or &#39;get over it&#39;. Was the ref as bad as Wayne Barnes performance at the World cup? No. Then shut and hack it like I&#39;ve been told to.

loratadine
16-06-08, 11:37 AM
a tier two nation :o im sorry but that is soooo disrespectful

and on a side issue i hate it when i hear things like "south africans got the most passionate fans" or "nz has the best fans"

im sorry but how many times have i got up at 8 o clock in the morn to watch new zealand to see empty seats, same can be said for the boks

now wales 95 percent of the time get sell outs

hell we even had a sell out for fiji a few years back, and get over 60,000 to see sides like japans and im telling you tickets are not cheap in wales by any stretch


and a tier two rugby nation :S please? dont be silly

sooo what are you saying to me? only south africa and nz are tier 1 at the moment ye? cos wales could beat anyone else at the moment

Incredible Schalk
16-06-08, 11:48 AM
Fiji>Wales

:D

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 11:54 AM
<div class='quotemain'> To be honest, if you can&#39;t see that we are one of the best teams in the World at the moment, then that&#39;s your problem I&#39;m afraid.
[/b]

Now i know you&#39;re a comedian :D
[/b][/quote]
Wales > All NH teams at the moment.
Wales > Ireland who came very close to beating AUS.
Wales > AUS
Wales > Scotland > Arg
Wales = 3rd in the World.

Oh no. What have I created ?!

D:

Also: Shane > Habana

*runs away*

shazbooger
16-06-08, 11:57 AM
You know about two years ago I wouldnt have been able to follow this thread as I could never tell the difference between < and >. I never knew which was greater than and which was less than. Always confused me.

gingergenius
16-06-08, 11:59 AM
a tier two nation :o im sorry but that is soooo disrespectful

and on a side issue i hate it when i hear things like "south africans got the most passionate fans" or "nz has the best fans"

im sorry but how many times have i got up at 8 o clock in the morn to watch new zealand to see empty seats, same can be said for the boks

now wales 95 percent of the time get sell outs

hell we even had a sell out for fiji a few years back, and get over 60,000 to see sides like japans and im telling you tickets are not cheap in wales by any stretch


and a tier two rugby nation :S please? dont be silly

sooo what are you saying to me? only south africa and nz are tier 1 at the moment ye? cos wales could beat anyone else at the moment
[/b]

anyone gets sellouts. No one could call English rugby fans the most passionate, but Twickenham gets sold out for every international and I&#39;ve been to 2 club games there in the last 2 years, both sellouts, and both breaking the record attendance for a club game. And those tickets cost £70+

Yeah and atm. only SA and NZ are tier 1.

I find it surprising, just because NZ flopped at the RWC everyone suddenly expected them to be less good - when they still are and probably always will be an awesome side. South Africa are the same, people said because of the quota and all this **** that they&#39;d be weaker... not at all! They&#39;re still awesome, World Cup champions after all..

Below those two sides there&#39;s a bunch of teams who could maybe get up to that level. Argentina are capable, but they just lost to Scotland so I don&#39;t know. Australia are always competitive even if they aren&#39;t the outstanding team they&#39;ve had in the past. Wales, yes could get there, but it needs a lot more than a 6N grand slam and beating SA in one half out of four. And France and England are both enigmas, they&#39;ve got young inexperienced and exciting sides and could either flop or develop into great teams.

EDIT:

hahah sees Speedy&#39;s logic. OF course Wales MUST be 3rd...

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 12:03 PM
hahah sees Speedy&#39;s logic. OF course Wales MUST be 3rd...
[/b]
Much like your logic which suggests anything Welsh must suck or will suck eventually. :rolleyes:

loratadine
16-06-08, 12:37 PM
i would honestly say that wales, australia and argentina are all fairly close at the moment, and are probably tied in 3rd position

Cymro
16-06-08, 12:42 PM
This is getting stupid could a mod end this ....

Its getting away from the match and once again getting a little bitching match between Wales and Rest Of The World.

Some of you have to step back and think before posting.

This thread is for the match not for who is better etc, open a poll / new thread for this.

Either get back to posting on how poor Welsh rugby was during this tour and how good SA were or dont post anything at all!

Thingimubob
16-06-08, 01:31 PM
The ref was definitely crap but I won&#39;t say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we&#39;ll be ready.

Habana > Williams [/b]

out of interest what did Jamie Roberts (Not Robertson, you&#39;re thinking of the Cardiff centre Jamie Robinson) do to deserve to get yellow carded? didn&#39;t see the whole match, so don&#39;t know.
And, how can a team that is atm the reining champions Grandslam Champions of the NH/6 Nations be a &#39;2nd tier side? I mean, ok, the team that ended up being played wasn&#39;t far off a second choice Wales team because of injuries, but still doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;re 2nd tier team. Seriously, half of teh posters here here are turning into WUMers, getting kinda stupid and childish.

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 01:35 PM
<div class='quotemain'> The ref was definitely crap but I won&#39;t say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we&#39;ll be ready.

Habana > Williams [/b]

out of interest what did Jamie Roberts (Not Robertson, you&#39;re thinking of the Cardiff centre Jamie Robinson) do to deserve to get yellow carded? didn&#39;t see the whole match, so don&#39;t know.
And, how can a team that is atm the reining champions Grandslam Champions of the NH/6 Nations be a &#39;2nd tier side? I mean, ok, the team that ended up being played wasn&#39;t far off a second choice Wales team because of injuries, but still doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;re 2nd tier team. Seriously, half of teh posters here here are turning into WUMers, getting kinda stupid and childish.
[/b][/quote]
Jamie Roberts slowed the ball down like, 1 metre from the Welsh line. Just like they stole it illegally on their own.

gingergenius
16-06-08, 01:38 PM
<div class='quotemain'> The ref was definitely crap but I won&#39;t say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we&#39;ll be ready.

Habana > Williams [/b]

out of interest what did Jamie Roberts (Not Robertson, you&#39;re thinking of the Cardiff centre Jamie Robinson) do to deserve to get yellow carded? didn&#39;t see the whole match, so don&#39;t know.
And, how can a team that is atm the reining champions Grandslam Champions of the NH/6 Nations be a &#39;2nd tier side? I mean, ok, the team that ended up being played wasn&#39;t far off a second choice Wales team because of injuries, but still doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;re 2nd tier team. Seriously, half of teh posters here here are turning into WUMers, getting kinda stupid and childish.
[/b][/quote]

being in the top tier puts wales on a par with SA and NZ.

case rested, Cymro&#39;s right.

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 01:40 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> The ref was definitely crap but I won&#39;t say he had an effect on the outcome of the game. I thought he should have yellow carded Jamie Robertson.

The scrums were a lot better from the Boks, I also think the ref penalised a bit unfairly at scrum time on certain occasions. The Boks have a bit to do before the Tri-Nations but I think we&#39;ll be ready.

Habana > Williams [/b]

out of interest what did Jamie Roberts (Not Robertson, you&#39;re thinking of the Cardiff centre Jamie Robinson) do to deserve to get yellow carded? didn&#39;t see the whole match, so don&#39;t know.
And, how can a team that is atm the reining champions Grandslam Champions of the NH/6 Nations be a &#39;2nd tier side? I mean, ok, the team that ended up being played wasn&#39;t far off a second choice Wales team because of injuries, but still doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;re 2nd tier team. Seriously, half of teh posters here here are turning into WUMers, getting kinda stupid and childish.
[/b][/quote]

being in the top tier puts wales on a par with SA and NZ.

case rested, Cymro&#39;s right.
[/b][/quote]
Cool. So Wales, Australia, Argentina and France are tier 2 and the rest are tier 3?
Fine with me.

Thingimubob
16-06-08, 01:48 PM
slowing the ball down? oh the irony!

dullonien
16-06-08, 01:48 PM
The thing is, Jamie Roberts was warned (incorrectly) after being pushed into a ruck by a South African, but he then offended as Sir. Speeds said. He should have been yellow carded by the ref, as he had already warned him (correctly or incorrectly). I remember commenting to a friend that Jamie Roberts was lucky not to go.

I have said and will say again, ref&#39;s should hand out more yellow cards, especially if it&#39;s in the &#39;red&#39; zone. Don&#39;t mind a warning first if it&#39;s in another area of the field, but too many tries are being illegally stopped in order to concede 3 points rather than 5/7.

Cymro
16-06-08, 02:37 PM
Roberts knew what he did like what Williams did during the Ireland game in the 6 Nations!

Back on topic, Matfield was a beast during a game, lineouts and around the park!
But why has h shaved his facial hair hardly recoginised him when I saw him!

Steve-o
16-06-08, 04:01 PM
On the tier issue, I&#39;d say Australia, France and England are definitely 1st tier.
They (FRA & ENG) are the only teams from the NH to make a WC final and/or win it. Adding to that are the only constant threats from up north, imo of course.

1st tier teams don&#39;t get knocked out of the WC in the pool stages and don&#39;t only beat the Boks once in 100 years.

The lady at the ticket office was willing to sell me a scholar (for under 18&#39;s) ticket because nobody was willing to pay so much to see Wales. Only the season ticket seats (the bottom section) were full. Sorry but that&#39;s the truth, don&#39;t shoot the messenger.

And on CURRENT FORM (seems to be the it word) Jean De Villiers is the best players in the world!!!1!1! Woooohah!

loratadine
16-06-08, 04:09 PM
lmfaooo shut up mate, you making outlandish statements trying to get a reaction out of the more volatile members like myself

de villiers is not the best player at the moment dont talk such ****

Dmx#1
16-06-08, 04:18 PM
On the tier issue, I&#39;d say Australia, France and England are definitely 1st tier.
They (FRA & ENG) are the only teams from the NH to make a WC final and/or win it. Adding to that are the only constant threats from up north, imo of course.

1st tier teams don&#39;t get knocked out of the WC in the pool stages and don&#39;t only beat the Boks once in 100 years.

The lady at the ticket office was willing to sell me a scholar (for under 18&#39;s) ticket because nobody was willing to pay so much to see Wales. Only the season ticket seats (the bottom section) were full. Sorry but that&#39;s the truth, don&#39;t shoot the messenger.

And on CURRENT FORM (seems to be the it word) Jean De Villiers is the best players in the world!!!1!1! Woooohah! [/b]
[/b][/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol2tn: :lol2tn: :lol2tn: :lol2tn: :lol2tn: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
</span></span>

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 05:30 PM
Well that was a pointless contribution. :rolleyes: France genuine threats, especially after losing by 60 points to NZ last year. England genuine threats after conceding 100+ points last year.
:lol:
Okey dokey.

Incredible Schalk
16-06-08, 05:57 PM
Well that was a pointless contribution. :rolleyes: France genuine threats, especially after losing by 60 points to NZ last year. England genuine threats after conceding 100+ points last year.
:lol:
Okey dokey.
[/b]

France had a third choice team out there lost by 30 points and then 50. Making imaginary rankings out of this team beating this team but lost to this team sort of style is completely pointless.

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 06:01 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Well that was a pointless contribution. :rolleyes: France genuine threats, especially after losing by 60 points to NZ last year. England genuine threats after conceding 100+ points last year.
:lol:
Okey dokey.
[/b]

France had a third choice team out there lost by 30 points and then 50. Making imaginary rankings out of this team beating this team but lost to this team sort of style is completely pointless.
[/b][/quote]
Sorry, I meant they conceded 60 points in one game. Regardless, Stevo-o can say "These teams came before and played well whereas Wales came before and were ****" all he likes since we aren&#39;t that team anymore. I&#39;d say that coming to SA after a long season with many key players missing and pushing the World Champions all the way away from home is very impressive. You can WUM all you like - but it gets really tedious in my opinion.

Steve-o
16-06-08, 06:52 PM
Wooh hold up Speedy, don&#39;t put words in my mouth.
I did not say Wales are crap.
I consider Ireland (my favorite NH team) 2nd tier but don&#39;t think they&#39;re crap. They&#39;re just not a 1st tier team.

You think SA were trying their hardest on Saturday? Oh dear me..

And lora, 4 tries in 2 games makes Jean De Villiers the best player in the world ON CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!
(gets annoying hey? sucks having a bit of your own medicine hey lora?)

loratadine
16-06-08, 07:44 PM
ummm well i think anyone who claims shanes the best in the world atm has every right to say that cos the truth is he is... thats not at all outlandish its the truth mate.

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 07:45 PM
Wooh hold up Speedy, don&#39;t put words in my mouth.
I did not say Wales are crap.
I consider Ireland (my favorite NH team) 2nd tier but don&#39;t think they&#39;re crap. They&#39;re just not a 1st tier team.

You think SA were trying their hardest on Saturday? Oh dear me..

And lora, 4 tries in 2 games makes Jean De Villiers the best player in the world ON CURRENT FORM!!!1!1!
(gets annoying hey? sucks having a bit of your own medicine hey lora?)
[/b]
I don&#39;t understand you though. This is the best Welsh team in ages (I&#39;d say it&#39;s a more complete side than the side that won the GS in 05) and we have so much time to improve our game. How on Earth can you call France and England 1st tier teams and not Wales? Because of past acheivements? If France beat AUS on their tour this year (they are touring AUS aren&#39;t they?) then that shows that they&#39;re in good form now (or it could means that AUS are playing ****). England only a few weeks ago, struggled to beat a pathetic Barbarians side and only last week got dominated for the last 60 minutes of the game and yet they&#39;re 1st tier?
Wales however, turn up in the second test against the World Champions and come within inches of perhaps winning the game, and they&#39;re 2nd tier? That makes no sense! While Wales used to put in good one-off performances and then get slaughtered in other games, this one under Gatland looks to maintain consistency and could be (note: Before I get bashed, I said could be) World beaters in a few years if we improve.

loratadine
16-06-08, 07:57 PM
i think this is stupid

the tiers are this in no particular order

tier 1
nz
sa
aus
eng
fra
wal
ire
arg
sco

tier 2
ita
fiji
ton
sam


etc etc

lets be realistic here, and not be completely disrespectful to the most passionate rugby nation on this planet.

Cymro
16-06-08, 08:03 PM
I reckon there are 3 tears at the moment!

SA and NZ are in tear 1 without a doubt

but then the rest are split between tear 2-3!

gingergenius
16-06-08, 08:38 PM
The OFFICIAL iRB rankings as of 16/6/08:

1. South Africa
2. New Zealand
3. Argentina
4. Australia
5. England
6. Wales
7. France
8. Ireland
9. Scotland
10. Fiji

which backs up my theory that there&#39;s the top 2 and then anyone out of the next 5 or 6 who could break into it.

Steve-o
16-06-08, 08:40 PM
Sir Speedy, you wanna be judge on the here now hey (no past), you got 80 points put on you in 2 games. 1st tier material eh? You don&#39;t just move into the tier 1 category after 6 months. Doesn&#39;t happen. France and England have been the most competitive and most consistent rugby teams from the NH.
16 points = inches of victory?
The Boks were experimenting a new game play and when it wasn&#39;t working they upped the solid hard grafting rugby and finished off the game. Everybody, other than the usual Welsh suspects, noticed that the Boks were basically always in control.

I tried very hard to be calm and non critical after the game on this thread but **** dude you and lora don&#39;t quit. If I gotta hear this whining and arrogant remarks from supporters who&#39;s team got convincing beaten in a Test series then I wish for the sake of everybodys sanity you never achieve anything worth being arrogant about.

And lora, you just to damn bias to have a constructive debate. If Wales had an ass (Newport?) your head would be in

shazbooger
16-06-08, 08:55 PM
I tried very hard to be calm and non critical after the game on this thread but **** dude you and lora don&#39;t quit. If I gotta hear this whining and arrogant remarks from supporters who&#39;s team got convincing beaten in a Test series then I wish for the sake of everybodys sanity you never achieve anything worth being arrogant about.[/b] You know you cant win. I&#39;d just give it up and move on. Its become a pointless exercise anyhoo.

Sir Speedy
16-06-08, 09:51 PM
16 points = inches of victory?
The Boks were experimenting a new game play and when it wasn&#39;t working they upped the solid hard grafting rugby and finished off the game. Everybody, other than the usual Welsh suspects, noticed that the Boks were basically always in control.
[/b]
Yep. Finished off the game with some solid hard grafting rugby after stealing the ball illegally 2 metres from their own line. Also, please tell me where I said Wales are a 1st tier team? Really, SA and NZ at their best are in a league of their own - what I said was that how the hell can you consider England and France, at the moment, tier two teams and not Wales? And please don&#39;t try and call me arrogant; if SA hadn&#39;t needed to cheat to stop us from potentially scoring at the moment I&#39;ve already described, we&#39;d have had a chance at retaining the lead and possibly winning. Apparantly though, everyone is oblivious to this as SA would obviously have regained the lead and scored a further 17 points. :rolleyes:
Oh well, I guess I&#39;m oblivious to that fact because I&#39;m an ignorant Welshman... <_<

loratadine
16-06-08, 11:25 PM
im quite enjoying our debate steve-o to be honest. just because im disagreeing with what your saying doesnt mean im blinded by welsh biasness. Granted im a proud, fiercely patriotic welshmen, but these are genuinely my opinions. I would go onto say however that in the springboks at the moment you have the best side in the world and to be fair i can only see new zealand coming close at the moment. Cant wait to see the boks nd the blacks get there teeth into each other.

nam97
17-06-08, 02:12 AM
If we&#39;re harping on about tiers than no way can Wales be in the top. Stop using the 6N success as a back bone to talk such rubbish.

Wales NEVER beat Aus, NZ and SA who are all top nations. In fact, they never even get close with the exception of getting within 5 points at Cardiff on the odd occasion. Wales were pathetic (be honest here) against a mediocre SA side over the last few weeks, how can they be ranked alongside them? Doesn&#39;t make sense.

WALES: Start winning games against SH teams outside of Millenium Stadium (which you hardly ever do anyway) and then you&#39;d have a solid case to work with.

KZNSharksFan
17-06-08, 03:05 AM
You welsh are getting a bad reputation now, starting to sound like sore losers who won&#39;t let the game go. I think your whole bloody country has small man syndrome. Wales got hammered, shane williams played well, as did de villiers. If habana had as much space as williams did and only had chavhanga marking him, it would have been a totally different story!!!!!!

2 games do not make an individual or a team great FFS :ranting:

Lets have a look at the world rankings where wales incidentally are 6th i think! SA=1st so be quiet and you can bring your silly tier **** to the party when you&#39;re in a better position to argue your nations supposed godliness! :bananarock:

Jer1cho
17-06-08, 05:43 AM
Internet working again at last, anyway, Wales were much improved. Shane Williams PWNED like 5 Boks!!!!! What a player!

Ricky Januarie had the worst game i have ever seen him play, his blunders cost 2 tries against us. Chavhanga was also terrible, and looked like he wasn&#39;t in the mood to be on that field. Juan Smit had another star performance, while John Smit also had a below average performance. Victor Matfield proved yet again why he is the best in the business. I also think that when Kankowski came on, he made a massive impact on the game, as did Francois Steyn.

But yeah, we need some players to pull up their socks, otherwise we will get a nice surprise in the Tri nations. . .

Cymro
17-06-08, 08:41 AM
You welsh are getting a bad reputation now, starting to sound like sore losers who won&#39;t let the game go. I think your whole bloody country has small man syndrome. Wales got hammered, shane williams played well, as did de villiers. If habana had as much space as williams did and only had chavhanga marking him, it would have been a totally different story!!!!!!

2 games do not make an individual or a team great FFS :ranting:

Lets have a look at the world rankings where wales incidentally are 6th i think! SA=1st so be quiet and you can bring your silly tier **** to the party when you&#39;re in a better position to argue your nations supposed godliness! :bananarock: [/b]

Stood away long enough without commenting about Shane Williams, excuses etc but im sorry it was the SH posters who brought the tiers onto here. So go and check the facts first please.

Well done for looking at the rankings its not that hard, even I look at it from time to time and wish Wales were in a better position!

No sore losers are the ones who send death threats to people much like the Polish to Howard Webb and the Kiwis to Wayne Barnes!

And no not all of us are sore losers go through this thread, if it aint to hard for you and look for the posters who have become sore losers, I think you will find one or two at the most!

Also stop making excuses to why Shane Williams look good also! Its double standards now! <_<

Cymro
17-06-08, 08:59 AM
If we&#39;re harping on about tiers than no way can Wales be in the top. Stop using the 6N success as a back bone to talk such rubbish.

Wales NEVER beat Aus, NZ and SA who are all top nations. In fact, they never even get close with the exception of getting within 5 points at Cardiff on the odd occasion. Wales were pathetic (be honest here) against a mediocre SA side over the last few weeks, how can they be ranked alongside them? Doesn&#39;t make sense.

WALES: Start winning games against SH teams outside of Millenium Stadium (which you hardly ever do anyway) and then you&#39;d have a solid case to work with. [/b]

Urm .... where shall I start?

No only a few are harping on about tiers anyone with common sense will see there are roughly 3 tiers! With SA and NZ in Tier 1 on their own! Then Tier 2 and Tier 3 are a mixture again, that change frequently! And yes we can talk about 6 Nations success because currently Wales are the best side in the Northen Hemesphire until 8th Feburary 2009 rolls round!

Calling the SA side mediocre made me laugh a little bit because you honestly think that was the Welsh first team that was sent to SA, do you think that were the player who played in Wales Sucessful 6 Nations campagin! Yes South Africa were missing players like Du Preez and Burger but Wales were missing some big guns like Henson and Peel / Phillips! Think your pathetic really for calling Wales pathetic. What was Gatland meant to do? Not tour SA or call up crappier players?
Hmm ....

Yes Wales cannot rank alongside NZ and SA because SA and NZ are clearly better than them!

And about winning games, it does not matter where you win them its along as you win them! Another childish and silly comment!

Make no bones about it here, im not defending this tour, far from it go through my posts and you will see that I dont think Wales is a Tier 1 nation. I dont think the tour was a success. I do think SA are the best side in the World. I do think Shane Williams is a great winger and Habana is equally as great. Im also defending some of the comments made because they are at times unwarrented and I clearly dont remember how many Welsh fans have sent death threats to the ref after the second test like many NZ to Wayne Barnes <_<

What this tour showed was two things, how good SA were and what a lack of depth Wales has!

loratadine
17-06-08, 10:51 AM
cant fault this, i dont think any welsh poster has denied that south africa deserved to win, granted when the match first finnished i was fuming, but when i calmed down i openly said that the boks deserved to win which they did. The only arguement ive had on here is the sh bully boys going on about wales with phrases like

pathetic
tier 2 rugby nation
little man syndrome


find it hugely disrespectful, and as a passionate welshmen its my duty to defend such remarks, and im not doing it in a stupid way like

walez iz the bezt lolz !!11!!!!11!!!1!1! im actually trying to get my point across and back it up with why i think like that. Unfortunately, it seems that us welsh fans have a bit of a stigmata around us, which could possibly be my fault for past misdemeanours, but to generalise all welsh posters, and all posts is very racist... but im sure most of you dont even consider us a race.

anyways, i think wales at home have a really good chance at beating the boks... in my opinion the gulf in class was not 16 points... and with our defensive general henson back for the autum game nd our little ginger scavenger marty williams back im pretty confident that we can run the boks very very close, and i wont lie to you, i think in the autum we can beat south africa and australlia... our physicality at home will be way too much for the aussies. Im still not to sure about new zealand this year.... our "little man" complex really kicks in bad against these guys. But lol who knows.

ok soooo heres something else im throwing about

if south africa went on a 2 heck even three year loosing streak, i would never consider them a secon tier rugby nation... got way too much respect for them, for there tradition for there heritage, for there history and there place inside rugby to come out with such derogratory and belittling bull****. Everyones going to dissagree on this. But thats my opinion, doesnt make me childish, doesnt make me biased. just the way it goes... I HATE england with a passion i make no bones about it, but i consider them tier 1, i consider scotland,ireland and argentina to be tier 1 also. the irb officialy classify wales scotland and ireland tier one, so if were dragging the official rankings into this, then ill drag in the official irb tiers.

Dmx#1
17-06-08, 11:00 AM
Wales are a tier 2 rugby nation though. The only SH team you have a chance of beating is Australia & only because they&#39;re experimenting with a new coach and team. Once Aussie, NZ and South Africa reach their peak (they have a while to go) you don&#39;t honestly think Wales to win the next world cup? I&#39;ll be surprised if they even make the finals.

Sir Speedy
17-06-08, 11:07 AM
Wales are a tier 2 rugby nation though. The only SH team you have a chance of beating is Australia & only because they&#39;re experimenting with a new coach and team. Once Aussie, NZ and South Africa reach their peak (they have a while to go) you don&#39;t honestly think Wales to win the next world cup? I&#39;ll be surprised if they even make the finals.
[/b]
That&#39;s a fair point, isn&#39;t it? I can say when Wales reach their peak then no team will beat us. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, we won&#39;t know until we reach our best. And right now, we&#39;re capable of making the semi-finals, depending on who we play in our pools and quarter-finals.

gingergenius
17-06-08, 11:40 AM
cant fault this, i dont think any welsh poster has denied that south africa deserved to win, granted when the match first finnished i was fuming, but when i calmed down i openly said that the boks deserved to win which they did. The only arguement ive had on here is the sh bully boys going on about wales with phrases like

pathetic
tier 2 rugby nation
little man syndrome


find it hugely disrespectful, and as a passionate welshmen its my duty to defend such remarks, and im not doing it in a stupid way like

walez iz the bezt lolz !!11!!!!11!!!1!1! im actually trying to get my point across and back it up with why i think like that. Unfortunately, it seems that us welsh fans have a bit of a stigmata around us, which could possibly be my fault for past misdemeanours, but to generalise all welsh posters, and all posts is very racist... but im sure most of you dont even consider us a race.

anyways, i think wales at home have a really good chance at beating the boks... in my opinion the gulf in class was not 16 points... and with our defensive general henson back for the autum game nd our little ginger scavenger marty williams back im pretty confident that we can run the boks very very close, and i wont lie to you, i think in the autum we can beat south africa and australlia... our physicality at home will be way too much for the aussies. Im still not to sure about new zealand this year.... our "little man" complex really kicks in bad against these guys. But lol who knows.

ok soooo heres something else im throwing about

if south africa went on a 2 heck even three year loosing streak, i would never consider them a secon tier rugby nation... got way too much respect for them, for there tradition for there heritage, for there history and there place inside rugby to come out with such derogratory and belittling bull****. Everyones going to dissagree on this. But thats my opinion, doesnt make me childish, doesnt make me biased. just the way it goes... I HATE england with a passion i make no bones about it, but i consider them tier 1, i consider scotland,ireland and argentina to be tier 1 also. the irb officialy classify wales scotland and ireland tier one, so if were dragging the official rankings into this, then ill drag in the official irb tiers.
[/b]

I + repped the Welsh poster I thought was talking sense. You&#39;re not all bad, but I come across it time and time again, it&#39;s not just the English who find many Welsh fans exasperating.

For all the South Africans on this topic, this is what the English have to put up with whenever they speak with a Welshman (generalising I know but whatever). They&#39;re so agressively passionate about their team, in the same way England football fans are. It blinds them from seeing the reality in front of them. It&#39;s always the referee&#39;s fault, or one player gets scapegoated, or it&#39;s the manager who&#39;s not good enough. I&#39;ve found when they win they rub it in and when they lose they moan. And then they moan more when other people, fed up to the back teeth with them, rub it in a little.

And making world cup predictions is futile. Ask any Kiwi/ Englishman about that.

Dmx#1
17-06-08, 11:49 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Wales are a tier 2 rugby nation though. The only SH team you have a chance of beating is Australia & only because they&#39;re experimenting with a new coach and team. Once Aussie, NZ and South Africa reach their peak (they have a while to go) you don&#39;t honestly think Wales to win the next world cup? I&#39;ll be surprised if they even make the finals.
[/b]
That&#39;s a fair point, isn&#39;t it? I can say when Wales reach their peak then no team will beat us. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, we won&#39;t know until we reach our best. And right now, we&#39;re capable of making the semi-finals, depending on who we play in our pools and quarter-finals. [/b][/quote]

Well the reason why I said that was due to the fact that there were Welsh fans claiming that they would make the WC finals. This was on the 6 nations topic I think.

Sir Speedy
17-06-08, 11:51 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Wales are a tier 2 rugby nation though. The only SH team you have a chance of beating is Australia & only because they&#39;re experimenting with a new coach and team. Once Aussie, NZ and South Africa reach their peak (they have a while to go) you don&#39;t honestly think Wales to win the next world cup? I&#39;ll be surprised if they even make the finals.
[/b]
That&#39;s a fair point, isn&#39;t it? I can say when Wales reach their peak then no team will beat us. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, we won&#39;t know until we reach our best. And right now, we&#39;re capable of making the semi-finals, depending on who we play in our pools and quarter-finals. [/b][/quote]

Well the reason why I said that was due to the fact that there were Welsh fans claiming that they would make the WC finals. This was on the 6 nations topic I think.
[/b][/quote]
Finals? Unless we&#39;re seeded with SA and NZ (which is impossible anyway) I think we&#39;ll get to the quarter finals at least. To the final? Well, as GG said, it&#39;s far too early to tell now. In fact, it&#39;s too early to tell 1 month before the WC starts.

loratadine
17-06-08, 12:02 PM
as i said someones dragged the official rankings in to back up there arguement of wales being tier 2

now ill bring in the OFFICIAL tiers according to the irb

the International Rugby Board, organised its member unions into "tiers".

The "Tier 1" nations were:

The participants in the Northern Hemisphere Six Nations Championship:
Wales
England
France (nicknamed Les Tricolores or Les Bleus)
Ireland
Italy (nicknamed Gli Azzurri)
Scotland
The participants in the Southern Hemisphere Tri Nations:
Australia ("Wallabies")
New Zealand ("All Blacks")
South Africa ("Springboks")
The "Tier1.5" nations are:

One geographically isolated emerging power:
Argentina (nicknamed Los Pumas)
"Tier 2" included the following:

Canada ("The Canucks")
Fiji (often called "The Flying Fijians")
Georgia (nicknamed Lelos)
Japan (nicknamed "The Cherry Blossoms" and more recently "Brave Blossoms")
Romania ("The Oaks")
Samoa (also known as Manu Samoa)
Tonga (nicknamed ʻIkale Tahi)
USA ("The Eagles")

dullonien
17-06-08, 12:10 PM
I don&#39;t understand why us Welsh are getting ridiculed for having confidence in our team? After all we won a grand slam a few months ago, if were not allowed to be optimistic after a success like that, then when are we? I think almost every Welsh fan realised after loosing so many important players it was gonna be very unlikely for us to win.

I&#39;ll say it now, I very rarely think were gonna loose before we start, it&#39;s not in my nature, and yes I thought we had a good chance against SA. Who are you guys to tell me I should give up on the sport I love?

Sorry, it&#39;s just getting quite annoying that people are basically calling me stupid that I thought Wales had a chance again SA. I was obviously an ignorant Welshman!

gingergenius
17-06-08, 12:11 PM
as i said someones dragged the official rankings in to back up there arguement of wales being tier 2

now ill bring in the OFFICIAL tiers according to the irb

the International Rugby Board, organised its member unions into "tiers".

The "Tier 1" nations were:

The participants in the Northern Hemisphere Six Nations Championship:
Wales
England
France (nicknamed Les Tricolores or Les Bleus)
Ireland
Italy (nicknamed Gli Azzurri)
Scotland
The participants in the Southern Hemisphere Tri Nations:
Australia ("Wallabies")
New Zealand ("All Blacks")
South Africa ("Springboks")
The "Tier1.5" nations are:

One geographically isolated emerging power:
Argentina (nicknamed Los Pumas)
"Tier 2" included the following:

Canada ("The Canucks")
Fiji (often called "The Flying Fijians")
Georgia (nicknamed Lelos)
Japan (nicknamed "The Cherry Blossoms" and more recently "Brave Blossoms")
Romania ("The Oaks")
Samoa (also known as Manu Samoa)
Tonga (nicknamed ʻIkale Tahi)
USA ("The Eagles")
[/b]

oh those are just the iRB&#39;s development tiers. You&#39;re not seriously telling me Argentina are worse than Italy?

Sir Speedy
17-06-08, 12:15 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
as i said someones dragged the official rankings in to back up there arguement of wales being tier 2

now ill bring in the OFFICIAL tiers according to the irb

the International Rugby Board, organised its member unions into "tiers".

The "Tier 1" nations were:

The participants in the Northern Hemisphere Six Nations Championship:
Wales
England
France (nicknamed Les Tricolores or Les Bleus)
Ireland
Italy (nicknamed Gli Azzurri)
Scotland
The participants in the Southern Hemisphere Tri Nations:
Australia ("Wallabies")
New Zealand ("All Blacks")
South Africa ("Springboks")
The "Tier1.5" nations are:

One geographically isolated emerging power:
Argentina (nicknamed Los Pumas)
"Tier 2" included the following:

Canada ("The Canucks")
Fiji (often called "The Flying Fijians")
Georgia (nicknamed Lelos)
Japan (nicknamed "The Cherry Blossoms" and more recently "Brave Blossoms")
Romania ("The Oaks")
Samoa (also known as Manu Samoa)
Tonga (nicknamed ʻIkale Tahi)
USA ("The Eagles")
[/b]

oh those are just the iRB&#39;s development tiers. You&#39;re not seriously telling me Argentina are worse than Italy?
[/b][/quote]
Italy > Scotland > Argentina. :c

Steve-o
17-06-08, 12:28 PM
You know a thread has it all when a white boy pulls the racist card amongst mostly white people and calls comments posted 2 days ago &#39;past discretions&#39;
LMAO