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blackbird762p
10-06-08, 09:59 AM
I am a fully converted All Black supporter.I am still staying in South Africa like MANY MANY other South Africans that are supporting the men in Black.Why? Well we prefer seeing and supporting a side that's chosen on merrit and with no political interference.That's the right wouldn't you agree? My point is this.After seeing the SA wings during the Super 14 I am really NOT convinced that it's the best that this country has to bring to the table.However the ugly face of quota's in SA rugby is showing it's face in all of the sides.Still sad and so wrong.Why play sport when you can't play your best players? We are converting more and more Bok supporters to support the men in Black and it's only then that they really see what a good side is all about.
:bravo:

Steve-o
10-06-08, 11:15 AM
I also noticed there are a few All Black supporters in Cape Town and Durban mainly. A friendly guy sporting a AB jersey helped me out with my place kicking last week. First one I've seen in Pretoria though.

I think the black community has helped SA rugby immensely though. The 1st black person to play in a Bok jersey was a winger, and that was in the rocky 80's no less.
Our current wing combo of Habana and Chavhanga is the best possible pairing for the Boks. After them it's the Ndungane's, Pietersen and Nokwe. All black.
So no I think the black wingers are picked on merit.
I've yet to see a world class black Bok forward though.

Dmx#1
10-06-08, 11:22 AM
Oh well if some South Africans didn't discrminate towards blacks in the first place you wouldn't have this so called 'quota problem' would you? *rolls eyes*
Not that I'm saying that New Zealanders all sing together and walking towards the horizon holding hands every day.

Gay-Guy
10-06-08, 11:30 AM
Yeah I thought the current SA wngs were the best available. The last white wings were um....forgettable when it came to pace. Roussow looked like a lock on the end of the backline and De Villiers was definitely out of place as he looked like a blindside flanker at the end of the backline. The current crop of wingers however DO seem to be comfortable with their pace.

silent_shadow
10-06-08, 11:46 AM
Those 2 aren't the best available? Please do tell who should be in there? I can't think of any good white wings in any case.

Jer1cho
10-06-08, 11:57 AM
Oh well if some South Africans didn't discriminate towards blacks in the first place you wouldn't have this so called 'quota problem' would you? *rolls eyes*
Not that I'm saying that New Zealanders all sing together and walking towards the horizon holding hands every day.[/b]

2 wrongs don't make a right do they? It has been 14 years now since our so called "freedom" so in all fairness, the gap is closing fast for these quota policies, as well as the "Black Economic Empowerment Act" I personally think it's ridiculous.

Back to the OP:

We as true Springboks, still support our team no matter what. Come on man, we won the freaking world cup!!! Twice!!! With only competing in 4 overall. Thats pretty good i reckon. With regards to the team we have now, i think the only player there who can thank his skin color is Conradie, who is out to prove everyone wrong...

Now, to have Bryan Habana on one wing (one of the best finishers in the game today - and probably the best winger we have ever had) and Tonderai Chavhanga (the fastest rugby player on the planet) on the other, i hardly think that is a second string choice.

To say that "only then we will see what a good side is all about" if we support the All Blacks is one of the most ridiculous statements i have ever heard. There is no other country i would ever support, and i don't care how good they are, or what their selection policies are. I am a "white" African, and although i have said some things i am not proud of (which is why i was banned for a while here, and have a warning) when one of those "quota players" cross that line, i am screaming my lungs out, supporting my country.

I think that even with our current political crisis, and blatant racism towards the "white" minority in this country, our full-of-quota team is still a lethal force in the rugby world, and still play their hearts out for their countries, screwed up or not. That, my friend, is what i think a true team is all about.

gingergenius
10-06-08, 12:46 PM
I am a fully converted All Black supporter.I am still staying in South Africa like MANY MANY other South Africans that are supporting the men in Black.Why? Well we prefer seeing and supporting a side that's chosen on merrit and with no political interference.That's the right wouldn't you agree? My point is this.After seeing the SA wings during the Super 14 I am really NOT convinced that it's the best that this country has to bring to the table.However the ugly face of quota's in SA rugby is showing it's face in all of the sides.Still sad and so wrong.Why play sport when you can't play your best players? We are converting more and more Bok supporters to support the men in Black and it's only then that they really see what a good side is all about.
:bravo:
[/b]

you're pathetic. how can you not support your own country?

For all the South Africans complaining about the quota, look at it from perspective.

1) You're lucky that there wasn't a lot more violence and unrest towards whites when the blacks came to power.

2) Until recently, England and France regularly put out sides with equal/ more black players than their South African opposition. For a country who's majority population is black that's ridiculous.

3) You're world champions and you just stuffed the most fancied side in the northern hemisphere. What's there to moan about?

4) Wings need to be quick. Look at every single person who's ever run a sub 10 second 100m and I'll say no more. Even most English wingers are black or mixed race. I wouldn't moan about that postition having black occupants, out of all the others...

To me going as far as supporting another country just because your own isn't picking white players reeks of racism. You're like the aristocracy after a revolution complaining about why they never get any priveleges any more.

Jer1cho
10-06-08, 12:52 PM
I still cant get over how he thinks Habana is a quota player... Thats like saying Jonah Lomu was only in The All Black team because he was Tongan. Stupid post.

stval
10-06-08, 02:30 PM
quotas are a huge influence in our soccer team. nuf said...

Jer1cho
11-06-08, 09:11 AM
quotas are a huge influence in our soccer team. nuf said...[/b]

LOL. Nice one. Imagine what the black population would say if a quota system was passed to make the soccer team half white. HAHAHA

KZNSharksFan
11-06-08, 09:35 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
I am a fully converted All Black supporter.I am still staying in South Africa like MANY MANY other South Africans that are supporting the men in Black.Why? Well we prefer seeing and supporting a side that&#39;s chosen on merrit and with no political interference.That&#39;s the right wouldn&#39;t you agree? My point is this.After seeing the SA wings during the Super 14 I am really NOT convinced that it&#39;s the best that this country has to bring to the table.However the ugly face of quota&#39;s in SA rugby is showing it&#39;s face in all of the sides.Still sad and so wrong.Why play sport when you can&#39;t play your best players? We are converting more and more Bok supporters to support the men in Black and it&#39;s only then that they really see what a good side is all about.
:bravo:
[/b]

you&#39;re pathetic. how can you not support your own country?

For all the South Africans complaining about the quota, look at it from perspective.

1) You&#39;re lucky that there wasn&#39;t a lot more violence and unrest towards whites when the blacks came to power.

2) Until recently, England and France regularly put out sides with equal/ more black players than their South African opposition. For a country who&#39;s majority population is black that&#39;s ridiculous.

3) You&#39;re world champions and you just stuffed the most fancied side in the northern hemisphere. What&#39;s there to moan about?

4) Wings need to be quick. Look at every single person who&#39;s ever run a sub 10 second 100m and I&#39;ll say no more. Even most English wingers are black or mixed race. I wouldn&#39;t moan about that postition having black occupants, out of all the others...

To me going as far as supporting another country just because your own isn&#39;t picking white players reeks of racism. You&#39;re like the aristocracy after a revolution complaining about why they never get any priveleges any more.
[/b][/quote]

Hardly racist is it?

You should know that white students are discriminated against through legislation by the govt. Such moves are making it increasingly hard for skilled white people to find work, even ahead of unskilled black ones.

In short, don&#39;t be so condescending about people you obviously know little about!

gingergenius
11-06-08, 06:00 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
I am a fully converted All Black supporter.I am still staying in South Africa like MANY MANY other South Africans that are supporting the men in Black.Why? Well we prefer seeing and supporting a side that&#39;s chosen on merrit and with no political interference.That&#39;s the right wouldn&#39;t you agree? My point is this.After seeing the SA wings during the Super 14 I am really NOT convinced that it&#39;s the best that this country has to bring to the table.However the ugly face of quota&#39;s in SA rugby is showing it&#39;s face in all of the sides.Still sad and so wrong.Why play sport when you can&#39;t play your best players? We are converting more and more Bok supporters to support the men in Black and it&#39;s only then that they really see what a good side is all about.
:bravo:
[/b]

you&#39;re pathetic. how can you not support your own country?

For all the South Africans complaining about the quota, look at it from perspective.

1) You&#39;re lucky that there wasn&#39;t a lot more violence and unrest towards whites when the blacks came to power.

2) Until recently, England and France regularly put out sides with equal/ more black players than their South African opposition. For a country who&#39;s majority population is black that&#39;s ridiculous.

3) You&#39;re world champions and you just stuffed the most fancied side in the northern hemisphere. What&#39;s there to moan about?

4) Wings need to be quick. Look at every single person who&#39;s ever run a sub 10 second 100m and I&#39;ll say no more. Even most English wingers are black or mixed race. I wouldn&#39;t moan about that postition having black occupants, out of all the others...

To me going as far as supporting another country just because your own isn&#39;t picking white players reeks of racism. You&#39;re like the aristocracy after a revolution complaining about why they never get any priveleges any more.
[/b][/quote]

Hardly racist is it?

You should know that white students are discriminated against through legislation by the govt. Such moves are making it increasingly hard for skilled white people to find work, even ahead of unskilled black ones.

In short, don&#39;t be so condescending about people you obviously know little about!
[/b][/quote]

1) white people in south africa are generally more wealthy and therefore have more oppurtunities. Why is it wrong that a black who&#39;s had less oppurtunities gets more leeway in the system? In England universities are more likely to give places to students from state school than private school for the same reason

2) All the immigrant zimbabweans did was look for work, and they get burnt and killed and all the rest. The immigrant whites come in and steal the land and oppress the locals, and what do they get? A few less university places? Look at things in perspective and be glad you foreigners haven&#39;t been kicked out of the country.

3) I&#39;ll condescend anyone who doesn&#39;t support their own country&#39;s rugby team....

Steve-o
11-06-08, 06:24 PM
Hmm, I see you&#39;ve never met a umemployed homeless Zimbabwean before!

Not that I condone what&#39;s been happening

nicolaas777
12-06-08, 12:26 PM
i thought this was a RUGBY forum..?

Gay-Guy
13-06-08, 12:23 AM
Lets just get it out there....."Quota systems in international sport suck"....sport is COMPETITION at international level and the very best should go forward.

Replying to the topic of this thread....Habana, Chavagna and Peteirsen aren&#39;t just the best wingers in S.A at the moment...they are OBVIOUSLY the best wingers at the moment. They are far away from being quota choices for black or coloured athletes.

With Conradie he may not be the first choice halfback all the time but he is in the top 4 most of the time. That means he is in CONTENTION for the top spot...which is NOT QUOTA!

Apart from these examples the others would probably be classed as quota if they are second stringers at provincial level. You have to be at least first choice in the S14 franchise to look like you may perhaps be higher than a quota player.

However we are not talking about those other positions in this thread...this thread is about the wings and the possibility that the current S.A wingers are only there as quota players. To believe that the current S.A wings are simply quota players is to be devoid of any understanding of what is required for wing play which perhaps hints of not understanding the whole game of rugby in itself. It could also smack of a belief system that is deeper, more akin to an older worldview in S.A that implies that blacks or coloured will never be as good as whites despite any evidence that suggest otherwise.

Boggle
13-06-08, 05:48 AM
1) white people in south africa are generally more wealthy and therefore have more oppurtunities. Why is it wrong that a black who&#39;s had less oppurtunities gets more leeway in the system? In England universities are more likely to give places to students from state school than private school for the same reason

2) All the immigrant zimbabweans did was look for work, and they get burnt and killed and all the rest. The immigrant whites come in and steal the land and oppress the locals, and what do they get? A few less university places? Look at things in perspective and be glad you foreigners haven&#39;t been kicked out of the country.

3) I&#39;ll condescend anyone who doesn&#39;t support their own country&#39;s rugby team.... [/b]



I love it how non south africans allways know better then us.

But hey, keep it up, maybe you&#39;ll teach us something about the country we&#39;ve been living in for our entire lives.

Jer1cho
13-06-08, 05:59 AM
1) white people in south africa are generally more wealthy and therefore have more oppurtunities. Why is it wrong that a black who&#39;s had less oppurtunities gets more leeway in the system? In England universities are more likely to give places to students from state school than private school for the same reason

2) All the immigrant zimbabweans did was look for work, and they get burnt and killed and all the rest. The immigrant whites come in and steal the land and oppress the locals, and what do they get? A few less university places? Look at things in perspective and be glad you foreigners haven&#39;t been kicked out of the country.

3) I&#39;ll condescend anyone who doesn&#39;t support their own country&#39;s rugby team....

[/b]

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. What the hell gives you the right to judge us? You are saying we are lucky we didn&#39;t get kicked out, and "oh the poor people were oppressed"....

50 Murders every day, and around 60 rapes a day. We live like prisoners in our own houses, the cities were taken over, and are inhabitable due to poverty and the fact that you will probably get murdered within a day of living there. You think we are not paying for our forefather&#39;s mistakes???

Steal the land and oppress the people? Read up on our history, White people built every city in this country, and discovered gold. Now our city names are being changed, because if a white person farts in this country, then it&#39;s a symbol of ****ing apartheid!

So, please, you have no idea what is going on here, and no right to judge us when you are too ignorant to see past what happened, instead of what&#39;s happening now.

2 WRONGS DON&#39;T MAKE A RIGHT!!!!!

BLR
13-06-08, 06:09 AM
This is a volatile subject but please try to keep the topic onto the Quota...it could flare up pretty ugly otherwise...

Jer1cho
13-06-08, 06:21 AM
This is a volatile subject but please try to keep the topic onto the Quota...it could flare up pretty ugly otherwise...[/b]

Agreed. Quota&#39;s suck, but are a reality. Case Closed.

Steve-o
13-06-08, 07:29 AM
Quotas do suck, since I was 11 years old regional rugby trials have had quotas. Many of my good friends, good rugby players, have been over looked because of quotas. I remember at one stage their were 3 black players with PROVINCIAL club colours in our B team! They were good enough to crack the Natal side but not our schools XV.
Point is all the big wigs have said quotas are banished, however now they have the power to say that all selections are on merit because they don&#39;t have a written policy anymore saying there has to be 4 black faces. Now they have free reign to pick 14 quota players and say in the coaches opinion they are the best.
The recent happenings in the Protea&#39;s camp shows that, firstly, quotas are still around and if the Protea&#39;s coach wasn&#39;t honest with his players, we wouldn&#39;t have uncovered the silent agenda being pushed in cricket.
There ARE quota players in the Bok team, but they not on the wings.

BOLLA CONRADIE < RORY KOCKETT

Jer1cho
13-06-08, 09:03 AM
Please close this thread.

BLR
13-06-08, 09:34 AM
Okay, this thread has run its course, all that has been said is said and we really don&#39;t want to go down a certain direction.

:locked: