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Steve-o
17-06-08, 09:28 PM
South Africa vs Italy



Not much build up to this one. Add any news concerning both teams here



Schalk fit and raring to play

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&am...72608572C441251 (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=194&art_id=vn20080617072608572C441251)



Boks have good recipe - Mallett

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&am...23402951C479571 (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=194&art_id=vn20080617123402951C479571)

Incredible Schalk
17-06-08, 11:13 PM
THHEEEE man is back B)

Dont have a clue what strength of side Italy will send them out, think Mallett hinted at a weakened younger side. Would expect the Boks to go on a similar path, well play some new guys but also keep some successful combinations going in preparation for the tri nations. Would say the Boks by 50.

Sir Speedy
17-06-08, 11:27 PM
Italy by 50. <_<


If SA put out a strong side though, then SA by 60 - 70 points.

gingergenius
17-06-08, 11:40 PM
THHEEEE man is back B)

Dont have a clue what strength of side Italy will send them out, think Mallett hinted at a weakened younger side. Would expect the Boks to go on a similar path, well play some new guys but also keep some successful combinations going in preparation for the tri nations. Would say the Boks by 50.
[/b]

Based on the most recent 6Nations, I&#39;d say Italy will get ****** on.

They have an outstanding pack, 1-8 all of their players are up there with the best.

They usually have a half decent 9.

10 has been a huge problem for them, as has goalkicking. However Andrea Marcato, naturally a fly-half, played really well for them at fullback and is young, so I reckon should be given a go.

Outside 10 there&#39;s nothing at all. They desperately need to try some youngsters to find someone with ideas/ pace.

Steve-o
18-06-08, 08:02 AM
I&#39;m also thinking Boks by 40 or 50.
Schalk Britz will most probably be on the bench, but he will definitely play. He&#39;s got a promising future this guy, he&#39;s just the type of hooker you want in loose play.
PdV said he&#39;s using these June Tests to prepare for the Tri Nation ELV&#39;s, so less players will be commiting to the rucks and quick ball will be emphasized. Hopefully our backs can get some continuity going, Wales rush defence and the 10 meters less space than the ELV&#39;s added some urgency, i like when our feathers are ruffled, but did achieve too much. Hopefully Steyn gets a run at 13

Jer1cho
18-06-08, 08:05 AM
When is the team getting announced?

In other news, no Du Preez for the Tri Nations. :(
http://supersport.co.za/rugby/article.aspx...r%20with%20Boks (http://supersport.co.za/rugby/article.aspx?id=258299&headline=Fourie%20won`t%20tour%20with%20Boks)

Steve-o
18-06-08, 03:47 PM
When is the team getting announced?

In other news, no Du Preez for the Tri Nations. :(
http://supersport.co.za/rugby/article.aspx...r%20with%20Boks (http://supersport.co.za/rugby/article.aspx?id=258299&headline=Fourie%20won`t%20tour%20with%20Boks)
[/b]
Meh, no Du Preez or Fourie..

The team will probably be announced just before lunch tomorrow.

Camberabero
18-06-08, 10:10 PM
ITALIA
15 Andrea MARCATO (Benetton Treviso, 7 caps)
14 Kaine ROBERTSON (Montepaschi Viadana, 30 caps)
13 Andrea MASI (Biarritz Olympique, 40 caps)
12 Gonzalo GARCIA (Cammi Calvisano, esordiente)
11 Matteo PRATICHETTI (Cammi Calvisano, 8 caps)
10 Luke MCLEAN (Cammi Calvisano, esordiente)
9 Simon PICONE (Benetton Treviso, 15 caps)
8 Josh SOLE (Montepaschi Viadana, 28 caps)
7 Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 6 caps)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Cammi Calvisano, 22 caps)
5 Carlo Antonio DEL FAVA (Ulster Branch, 28 caps)
4 Santiago DELLAPE’ (Biarritz Olympique, 50 caps)
3 Carlos NIETO (Gloucester RFC, 26 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Cammi Calvisano, 11 caps) - capitano
1 Michele RIZZO (Carrera Petrarca Padova, 1 cap)

a disposizione
16 Fabio ONGARO (Saracens, 53 caps)
17 Ignacio ROUYET (Montepaschi Viadana, esordiente)
18 Tommaso REATO (Femi CZ Rovigo, 1 cap)
19 Jaco ERASMUS (Montepaschi Viadana, 2 caps)
20 Pablo CANAVOSIO (Castres Olympique, 18 caps)
21 Enrico PATRIZIO (Carrera Petrarca Padova, 3 caps)
22 Riccardo PAVAN (Overmach Cariparma, esordiente)

Italy is used to have a very effective pack but for the test in Cape Town there will be many changes due to club commitment or injury of Castrogiovanni, Cittadini, Lo Cicero, Perugini, Bortolami , Bergamasco Mauro and Mirco (inside centre) and Parisse (captain).
McLean will play at ten (@Calvisano he plays fullback) and Masi come back at 13.
Marcato is too light to play flyhalf for Mallett&#39;s ideas....
Garcia is a good inside centre, a revelation of super 10.
Pratichetti is strong and he&#39;s got pace.
The damage limitation strategy will not be effective against the world champs...but we&#39;re confident and we hope to score a try at least.
We&#39;ll try to keep possessions when we need it and avoid penalties.
SA will score 8 tries at least.
We hope to have some chance in the second half and get them. We would like to see some improvement in our offensive game with our new pivot and our backs.
We know very well that we&#39;re going to lose with a big margin but we want to gain a little respect from South Africa.
Losing with Honor....
SA 65 - ITA 17
Forza Azzurri ! :cheers: :bravo: :fb: :bonne-de:

silent_shadow
19-06-08, 02:04 PM
15. Conrad Jantjes
14. Odwa Ndungane
13. Gcobani Bobo
12. Jean de Villiers
11. Bryan Habana
10. Francois Steyn
9. Ricky Januarie
8. Ryan Kankowski
7. Juan Smith
6. Luke Watson
5. Victor Matfield &copy;
4. Bakkies Botha
3. CJ van der Linde
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Tendai Mtawarira

16. Schalk Brits
17. Brian Mujati
18. Andries Bekker
19. Joe van Niekerk
20. Schalk Burger
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Peter Grant.

I dislike a few things about this team. Firstly what has Steyn done to deserve a start a flyhalf? I bet Dick had a big part in that. And what is Bobo doing there? Aren&#39;t Jacobs and Jean the favourite centre pairing? And Jacobs isn&#39;t even on the bench. You;d think they&#39;d need time to click before we face the ABs.

Steve-o
19-06-08, 04:13 PM
Yay for Kankowski... Nay for Bobo...
I hope Steyn f***s up big time at 10, because if not it&#39;ll just be another position they can rotate him to.

silent_shadow
19-06-08, 06:35 PM
5 forwards and 2 backs on the bench... obviously took after Province. ;) I just realised though that we have no proper goal kickers in the starting line up. Can Steyn even kick in front of the 50m mark?
Do you know of any game where Steyn ever played well at flyhalf? He might play well against Italy, but NZ would crush him, and us just like they did last year when Steyn came on. All good South African flyhalves have been dependable players who did the basics right. Steyn&#39;s too unpredictable. He may have the skills of a Dan Carter, but his decision making is poor. Maybe in the future he&#39;ll grow into one, but he&#39;s really not suited towards it at the moment.
I think he just likes the idea of being a flyhalf- glamour boy, central to the backline etc. But he better mess up there because I think his talent will be wasted.

Prestwick
19-06-08, 08:00 PM
I predict that there will be about 200 fights during this match..

..who&#39;ll win? Who cares! DING-DING-DING!

silent_shadow
19-06-08, 08:24 PM
Hopefully it won&#39;t rain on Saturday, I&#39;d like to see us try play an expansive game in preparation for the ELVs. Sometimes comprehensively beating a minnow team is a great way to get your side to click. It worked for us against Namibia so maybe it&#39;ll work again.
I think Jean must be rested. Since the start of the Super 14 he&#39;s been playing 80 minutes of every match, that must be a record for him and with the great form he&#39;s in I want him to be fresh for the tri-nations. Maybe Grant to come on at half time and Steyn to move to 12...

rodri_arg91
19-06-08, 10:01 PM
15 Andrea MARCATO (Italy)
14 Kaine ROBERTSON (Nez Zealand)
13 Andrea MASI (Italy)
12 Gonzalo GARCIA (Argentina)
11 Matteo PRATICHETTI (Italy)
10 Luke MCLEAN (Australia)
9 Simon PICONE (Italy)
8 Josh SOLE (New Zealand)
7 Robert BARBIERI (Canada)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Italy)
5 Carlo Antonio DEL FAVA (South Africa)
4 Santiago DELLAPE’ (Argentina)
3 Carlos NIETO (Argentina)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Italy) - cap
1 Michele RIZZO (Italy)


I like Italy , i like this team, but its difficult to think of it as a NATIONAL side
cheers to the italians anyway :)

Boggle
19-06-08, 10:03 PM
I&#39;m also not happy about Steyn at flyhalf, so he thinks that where he wants to play. in the position he&#39;s been the most **** at ?



and somehow Grant get&#39;s shuffled down to the 3rd choice ? :huh:


I&#39;m really -really- scared that they&#39;re busy turning Steyn into the next Brent Russel, talent like that shouldn&#39;t be averaged out by playing him at every single position possible, pretty soon we&#39;ll see him packing down with the scrum as the worlds most mobile hooker, taking dropshots from ontop of the ruck.

BLR
20-06-08, 03:17 AM
Former Perth Spirit boy playing starting flyhalf for the Italians, w00!

InsaneAsylum
20-06-08, 03:30 AM
good luck to italy although i have a feeling they are going to be hurting after 80 minutes.

how does McLean qualify? italian mother?

BLR
20-06-08, 04:18 AM
good luck to italy although i have a feeling they are going to be hurting after 80 minutes.

how does McLean qualify? italian mother?[/b]
McLean doesn&#39;t sound too Italian to me. :D

I would assume the Italians don&#39;t have the strictest of rules about who can represent the country, probably just played a season over there and managed to cut it so he is in the squad.

InsaneAsylum
20-06-08, 05:32 AM
lol can probably say "chow, come stay"


both my parents are italian, i have an italian surname, and i&#39;m not very good at rugby. do you think i&#39;ll get a game for italy? :D

BLR
20-06-08, 06:05 AM
both my parents are italian, i have an italian surname, and i&#39;m not very good at rugby. do you think i&#39;ll get a game for italy? :D[/b]
Not likely, they want good players regardless of thier background I&#39;d say...if you&#39;re not good at rugby try a country that isn&#39;t a good rugby nation, you&#39;d be thier version of Jonah. ;)

Maccaweeny
20-06-08, 07:06 AM
You&#39;d have to be better than Masi

Incredible Schalk
20-06-08, 12:38 PM
His mothers Italian. He has never even played flyhalf for his club side, Calvisano. He hasnt played 10 since high school i think it was. :blink:

Tamarro
20-06-08, 10:21 PM
It will be because I am a big supporter of italy but me the result I foresee it this way: SA 37 - ITA 20, take also me as a crazy person. :)

however italy has too serious lacks: parisse, castrogiovanni, lo cicero, bortolami, perugini..........they are all strong players and their lack will feel him during the game.....


forza azzurri!!!!!!!!!

Incredible Schalk
21-06-08, 10:39 AM
Italy are missing there 4 best players, Parisse especially is a huge loss. I hope the Boks can put a performance together over 80 minutes rather than 20 minutes against Wales.

Steve-o
21-06-08, 11:02 AM
Italy are missing there 4 best players, Parisse especially is a huge loss. I hope the Boks can put a performance together over 80 minutes rather than 20 minutes against Wales.
[/b]
Parisse is considered the best no.8 in Europe hey? Such a pity for Italy, because it&#39;s gonna take the best to counter KANKOWSKI! :D

Incredible Schalk
21-06-08, 11:23 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Italy are missing there 4 best players, Parisse especially is a huge loss. I hope the Boks can put a performance together over 80 minutes rather than 20 minutes against Wales.
[/b]
Parisse is considered the best no.8 in Europe hey? Such a pity for Italy, because it&#39;s gonna take the best to counter KANKOWSKI! :D
[/b][/quote]


Yup, Parisse is a bit of a superstar, very similar player to Kankowski without as much pace.

Steve-o
21-06-08, 12:36 PM
Just watched the Rondebosch v Bishops game and it looks like conditions are wet in the cape. Hopefully the rain holds off

silent_shadow
21-06-08, 12:45 PM
Well I live in Newlands and I haven&#39;t seen any rain. It&#39;s overcast and there might be light drizzle but I don&#39;t think it&#39;ll rain much.

Sir Speedy
21-06-08, 02:26 PM
14 - 0 to SA. Their forward pack is dominating as we all knew it would.

Gavin
21-06-08, 02:31 PM
14 - 0 to SA. Their forward pack is dominating as we all knew it would. [/b]

They are dominating, but the Italian scrum is doing very well.

Sir Speedy
21-06-08, 02:33 PM
How is Marcato doing? I&#39;m not really watching the game properly - all I&#39;ve seen from him is a penalty kick missing touch and him trying to redeem himself by playing aerial ping-pong for about 2 minutes. <_<

Gavin
21-06-08, 02:39 PM
How is Marcato doing? I&#39;m not really watching the game properly - all I&#39;ve seen from him is a penalty kick missing touch and him trying to redeem himself by playing aerial ping-pong for about 2 minutes. <_< [/b]

Andrea Marcato is playing ok. Isn&#39;t really the best weather for the game. It seems to me that Marcato and McLean are switching positions constantly.

Sir Speedy
21-06-08, 02:47 PM
Wow, he&#39;s doing brilliantly under the high ball for a player with, what, 4 tests under his belt? Half of those being starts? :blink:

Incredible Schalk
21-06-08, 02:51 PM
Utter garbage, the conditions have ruined the game and Steyn at 10 kicks far to much. Italy have been the usual, no attacking threat but a reasonable defense. Marcato has been ok, he just kicks though.

Gavin
21-06-08, 02:55 PM
Nearly all of the starts, and mainly at fullback. Seems weird to me having Marcato playing fullback when he plays flyhalf for his club, and McLean playing flyhalf when he plays fullback for his club :blink: But that is what Mallet is doing and it is sort of working. Really sad to see Kankowski taken off in a neck brace, hope he is alright but it seemed to be just in case it was a neck injury. Also that yellow card should not have been given out, it was a shoulder high tackle and just unfortunate how Kankowski&#39;s neck moved.

silent_shadow
21-06-08, 03:00 PM
Brilliant try in the beginning from Steyn. The conditions really aren&#39;t that bad, the drainage is very good at Newlands and I&#39;ve seen more expansive games in far worse conditions. The problem is no other back is getting the ball and it&#39;s making this a very boring game.

Gavin
21-06-08, 03:14 PM
Steyn is not a flyhalf, he is a center or fullback. Just seems like he is out of position and takes too long to kick.

silent_shadow
21-06-08, 03:24 PM
BEAST SCORES!
Steyn passed for the 1st time in the game and almost messed the try up...

Grant at 10 and Steyn at 15. Now that&#39;s what I&#39;m talking about.

Incredible Schalk
21-06-08, 03:32 PM
What can Malett take out of this game? his side dont even attempt to run the ball. I always wonder what the backs do in training do they just do aimless kicks at a wall for an hour

Tamarro
21-06-08, 03:54 PM
SA 26 - 0 ITA

:D

Incredible Schalk
21-06-08, 03:56 PM
completely butchered two tries near the end but what this showed was..Ndungane is rubbbish,Steyn is definetely not a 10 and finally that the Bok players havent been listening to PDV when he said to play with their heads up. If they play like that the All Blacks will pummel them, will Smit and co be back?

Bull
21-06-08, 03:57 PM
What a poor match. The Bokke didn&#39;t seem like they wanted to play, Italy were really only spoiling the ball the whole time. I thought the ref should have given a number of yellow cards for all the negative play. Steyn was okay, De Villiers was quite, was Bobo on the field? Ndungane was okay-ish, Habana did pretty well and Jantjes was ****.

I hope everyone can see now that the Beast can scrum for ****, he got owned by the Italians 3rd string prop(s). Time to bring in Heinke van der Merwe.

Lot&#39;s of work to do before the Tri-nations.

silent_shadow
21-06-08, 03:57 PM
I feel sorry for the poor crowd that turned up to watch this. Imagine having to pay lots of money to sit in a cold, wet Newlands and watch a lackluster performance from SA.
Mujati played well when he came on. ;) In fact the scrum was at its best with Mujati at 3 and CJ at 1. It&#39;s probably because Cj isn&#39;t a tighthead.
Ndungane was pretty poor, although he didn&#39;t get much ball and the conditions weren&#39;t suitable. Brits played very well when he came on on debut. When Grant came on the backline actually got some ball and moved around a bit and it was great having Steyn at 15 with his big boot and counterattacking.

Incredible Schalk
21-06-08, 04:01 PM
On the positive side though Van Niekerk was superb and on balance i would have him ahead of Spies. Brits as you say also made a big impression when he came on, Du Plessis was great again as was Matfield.

silent_shadow
21-06-08, 04:23 PM
Big Joe did play well when he came on. Kankowski will probably miss out then. It&#39;s a shame as he hasn&#39;t played much, but he should&#39;ve made the most of that time. He&#39;s also not very good in wet conditions and we could have a lot of that in New Zealand.
I&#39;m really worried about our scrum though. I don&#39;t think anyone knows what the best front row is, that&#39;s the problem with rotation.

Tamarro
21-06-08, 04:42 PM
you imagine however if italy didn&#39;t have all these absences.......

let&#39;s say it however, they have both played badly: south africa has too underestimated the adversary and italy has not been enough aggressive.....

springbok90
22-06-08, 09:57 AM
i was a little worried that we couldnt pile a few more points on against italy, although holding them scoreless is good to, cant for the tri-nations then we can see whos really good

Boggle
22-06-08, 03:33 PM
Well I think the fact that we took only one shot at goal altered the score a bit, but then against Italy I guess they we&#39;re trying for as many tries as possible rather then taking the 3 points when it presents itself.



Bobo was so utter rubbish I allmost shat myself.

He was just horrible, not one good move during the entire game (apart from a tackle) I&#39;m -sure- we&#39;ve got some better partners for De Villiers, even with the absense of Fourie and Jacobs.



It&#39;s a shame about Kankowski, he&#39;s first Bok game under Pieter De villiers and he doesn&#39; get to show much due to one of the worst looking tackles I&#39;ve ever seen, it looked as if though his body snapped in half when he was hit, made my skin crawl.

Steve-o
22-06-08, 07:30 PM
Unconvincing <-- just about sums it up...

Thank goodness the whole SA now knows that Bobo is ****. He never was Bok quality, never will be. Barrett should be in the mix at 12, De Villiers at 13 or even the other around. Or even De Villiers at 12 and Steyn at 13.
Until Jannie Du Plessis and Heinke van der Merwe get selected, our scrum is gonna suck.

This whole post is a case of de jevu (sp?)

Gavin
22-06-08, 09:20 PM
i was a little worried that we couldnt pile a few more points on against italy, although holding them scoreless is good to, cant for the tri-nations then we can see whos really good [/b]

To be fair the conditions didn&#39;t really suit a free flowing game. Bobo played rubbish and Steyn kicked the ball far too much.

Steve-o
23-06-08, 08:15 AM
i was a little worried that we couldnt pile a few more points on against italy, although holding them scoreless is good to, cant for the tri-nations then we can see whos really good
[/b]
In some ways I share your concern but I really don&#39;t think it&#39;s a coincidence that the Boks scored 2 quick and relentless tries in under 20-25 minutes in all 3 Tests.
Atleast that&#39;s what I hope.

silent_shadow
23-06-08, 12:07 PM
JdV&#39;s centre partner is really worrying me. I think NZ will target Jacobs if he plays and his defense has never convinced me. Maybe he&#39;ll be good as an impact player but I think we need someone else there. I&#39;d actually like Grant to be tried out there. His defense is solid, he knows JdV well and I like the idea of 2 flyhalves at 10 and 12. But then he couldn&#39;t really be used as a backup flyhalf. Steyn wouldn&#39;t be too bad, but he still doesn&#39;t pass enough.
JdV is an outside centre, he&#39;s got the pace and the creativity, he can play as a wing, but not a flyhalf. Doubt they&#39;ll move him there unfortunately.

Here&#39;s a backline I&#39;d like too see, but probably won&#39;t:
15 - Steyn/Percy
14 - ?
13 - JdV
12 - Grant/Steyn
11 - Habana
10 - Butch
9 - Januarie

Our defense would be rock solid with the exception of the right wings who I&#39;m unsure of. And we&#39;d have a good mixture of dependable (Januarie, Butch, Grant, Percy) and flair players (Steyn, Habana, JdV, hopefully 14)
I really wish we had Barritt or M. Steyn I think they could slot in at 12 quite well.

Steve-o
23-06-08, 12:35 PM
Not sure why you want Steyn at 12 if you don&#39;t rate his passing? I know Meyer Bosman was in the 30 man squad before he got injured, I rate him highly at 12, and he has played 10 for the Cheetahs many times.

silent_shadow
23-06-08, 02:45 PM
Not sure why you want Steyn at 12 if you don&#39;t rate his passing? I know Meyer Bosman was in the 30 man squad before he got injured, I rate him highly at 12, and he has played 10 for the Cheetahs many times. [/b]

Well we don&#39;t have many options there. Steyn at least played very well at 12 in the WC and he did actually pass the ball occasionally. He has a bit more space to work with than at flyhalf and Butch at 10 takes pressure off him and means he doesn&#39;t have to dictate play in the backline. I also think playing next to Butch and JdV will help him.
His passing is the biggest problem, I still think his future is at fullback, but I don&#39;t think he&#39;ll be a bad centre if he works on distribution.

colonnello77
28-06-08, 11:09 AM
what do you think about italy and mainly young italians Mclean, Garcia, Marcato?