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View Full Version : Patterson: "Magner's League > Guinness Premiership"



Sir Speedy
16-07-08, 09:17 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7510444.stm

Seems to me he's bitter he got no game-time at Gloucester.

Bullitt
16-07-08, 09:20 PM
lol, bless him. He really sucked last season.

Sir Speedy
16-07-08, 09:27 PM
lol, bless him. He really sucked last season.
[/b]
He should have just left the Premiership with dignity by keeping his gob shut. His only strength is his goalkicking and he proved that to be flawed when under pressure against Munster in the Heineken Cup quarter-final. The fact he was 2nd choice to Ryan "O'Gara's understudy" Lamb ever since he joined shows a lot.

Bullitt
16-07-08, 09:31 PM
In fairness, Lamb has bucket loads of talent, it's his attitude and his bottle which are in doubt.

An Tarbh
16-07-08, 09:31 PM
Bit of a pointless parting shot to be honest, doubt he'd be saying that had he not choked in the HEC quarter final as his season would have gone in a completely different direction.

Magners League will never have credibility in the eyes of some as there's no promotion or relegation so hence no pressure on teams to tighten up their play at crucial stages in the season but that's a moronic argument given the number of teams at our disposal so all a bit pointless really, fact is the ML can't be that bad given how competitive teams are in the HEC and I wager they'd more than hold their own in the GP or the Top 14 but we're never going to get that.

Thingimubob
17-07-08, 12:27 AM
he does seem a bit bitter doesn't he? I've never bought into the whole 'Premiership Rugby is miles ahead of Magners Rugby' theory, but I still don't believe it's true the other way round either. But the Magners isn't as weak as some make out, as An Tarbh said, the Celtic teams are more than competitive in the Heineken, with 3 Quarter Finalists last season, with one going on to win it. Same with the Welsh teams in the EDF, not as if they get hammered regularly by all the English teams.

gingergenius
17-07-08, 12:36 PM
in a way he's right. this season's HC winners came from the Magner's league after all...

however it smells fishy when someone with a reputation like Paterson comes down to play for Gloucester, completely flops and then leaves and blames it on the league...

How about this: The Magner's League, AND the Guinness Premiership are both fantastic leagues capable of producing highly exciting, physical and tense rugby and don't really need to score points off each other with useless comparisons... There are 3 outstanding leagues in Europe, there's no point comparing them...

Prestwick
17-07-08, 12:56 PM
Oh dear, with all this dick waving going around, you don't see the French coming on here yelling "my god! our league is so much better than the GP/ML/Super 14", do you?

No, thats because they don't have to, 'cos they know their league is at the very least one of the finest around. It has the best fights for a start!

cyRil
17-07-08, 12:58 PM
If the teams took it seriously the Magners would be a decent league. As it is, it's a joke.

Prestwick
17-07-08, 01:01 PM
Now, I didn't really want to say that..but..

..I'm just going to say I'm happy to be regular spectator of a league that provides exciting, nail biting rugby that entertained over two million punters and many more millions of television viewers last year. The best? Maybe not but it does the job in my opinion.

I'll definetely be getting a four match ticket package for this season.

An Tarbh
17-07-08, 01:01 PM
If the teams took it seriously the Magners would be a decent league. As it is, it's a joke.
[/b]

It's only Munster who consistently don't take it seriously.

Prestwick
17-07-08, 01:04 PM
Would you suggest that Munster only do enough to qualify for the HEC? Does that detract from the hard work Leinster, Ulster and Connacht put in?

crispy
17-07-08, 01:05 PM
If you listen to the audio interview he doesn't sound bitter at all and he hardly slammed the GP, it was an off hand comment, the BBC is just stirring things.

An Tarbh
17-07-08, 01:14 PM
Would you suggest that Munster only do enough to qualify for the HEC? Does that detract from the hard work Leinster, Ulster and Connacht put in?
[/b]

Yeah they do but it doesn't detract from Leinster or any of the Irish sides as whenever they meet they're full strength going at it hell for leather, so if anything it gives the Welsh and Scottish sides a more inflated finish.

Prestwick
17-07-08, 01:19 PM
I was kind of thinking more along the lines of tarred with the same brush, that fans abroad think that all Irish provinces operate along the same lines when the reality is different?

Gavin
17-07-08, 02:02 PM
Munster do the business to qualify for the HEC because they know that they are strongest in that competition. They concentrate more on the HEC because, perhaps in the fans minds, it's worth more.

Sir Speedy
17-07-08, 02:08 PM
Munster do the business to qualify for the HEC because they know that they are strongest in that competition. They concentrate more on the HEC because, perhaps in the fans minds, it's worth more.
[/b]
Well, it is worth more. The Magner's League is worthless (well, not entirely) because at the end of the day, only a few sides try in it. You have the Dragon's and Connacht who try so they can qualify for Europe, and you have Leinster who try to please their fans after being knocked out of Europe. The Ospreys are the Welsh equivelant of Munster; neither try.

Gavin
17-07-08, 02:11 PM
It depends where you come from. People may rate the Currie Cup over the Super14 because the Currie Cup is all South African. In the Magner's League it's Celt's against Celt's, probably something tribal from 2000 years ago.

stormmaster1
18-07-08, 09:47 AM
Magner's v GP.

2 very different competitions. IMO the GP is more competitive, but by that i simply mean more sides have more at stake, so losing is a worse result than for many in the MAgner's. The GP is imo more physical and more defensive while the MAgner's is more open (so considered a better spectacle by some).



None of this makes either competition better than the other.



With regards to Paterson's somments, he also said the Magner's suited his style better. Could be that there is less pressure to succeed at Edinburgh than in an ambitious Gloucester side, or simply that he is a less physical player and suits a more open game better. Added to that the fact he made no real impact in the competition.

Bullitt
18-07-08, 09:52 AM
Basically what he was saying by "the Magners League is better, for my game" really meant "I actually start more games and the number of penalties conceded per match means more pops at goal..."

Gavin
18-07-08, 10:25 AM
The Guiness Premiership to the Magner's League is what gammon is to bacon - thicker, juicier and harder to get into.

Bullitt
18-07-08, 10:28 AM
Oooh, nice analogy.

Gavin
18-07-08, 10:37 AM
Oooh, nice analogy. [/b]

Oh thank you my dear :D

Thingimubob
18-07-08, 01:40 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Would you suggest that Munster only do enough to qualify for the HEC? Does that detract from the hard work Leinster, Ulster and Connacht put in?
[/b]

Yeah they do but it doesn&#39;t detract from Leinster or any of the Irish sides as whenever they meet they&#39;re full strength going at it hell for leather, so if anything it gives the Welsh and Scottish sides a more inflated finish. [/b][/quote]

Very true tbh - for example, Cardiff have done the double over Munster two seasons in a row over the last two seasons, but when they met in the Heineken in the 06/07 season, Munster finished them off easily enough home and away.

danny
18-07-08, 07:25 PM
The prem is a better league in the fact that its competitive and all the teams(within reason-sorry Leeds etc) are trying to win the thing. The magners on the other hand seems to be a better environment to prepare for the HC. No pressure of relagation and the opportunity to rest key players for their country and Hc. The ideal would be to have a shortened league program with more time for preparation but that would mean clubs missing out on precious dosh.

Incredible Schalk
19-07-08, 11:05 PM
He never actually said the Magners league was better, he just said it suited his style better which is an elusive runner. Remember that try he score against Bath, thats what he can do but wasnt given the chance. People need to read before jumping to conclusions.

Prestwick
20-07-08, 02:02 AM
Thats the problem with Dean Richards, hell bent on amassing the biggest collection of backs the world has ever seen.

Fear the might of the Gloucester black helicopters, coming to take away your backs whether you like it or not!

Thingimubob
23-07-08, 12:39 AM
Thats the problem with Dean Richards, hell bent on amassing the biggest collection of backs the world has ever seen.

Fear the might of the Gloucester black helicopters, coming to take away your backs whether you like it or not! [/b]

heh true, any side who recruits Mathew Watkins from the Scarlets must be on soem hell bent &#39;must buy every back no matter if they&#39;re utter ****&#39; mission.

DR749
24-07-08, 06:48 PM
The fact that this keeps coming up each year.....Magners trying to compare to Guinness Premiership only reinforces that the Magners League is not quite up to the GP yet. If it was better, you wouldnt have numerous people trying to prop it up and say it was. It would benefit from its reputation, not spin doctors.



For the record, I am a fan of both. Good games and bad games are seen in both Leagues. I would love it if they just combine and have a huge league with maybe some divisions.



Doc

atreides7887
07-08-08, 02:16 PM
How much of a difference do you think end of year playoffs would make to the Mangers league. Rumor was after the EDF runs out they might be going for something like that.

Vambo
07-08-08, 02:33 PM
How much of a difference do you think end of year playoffs would make to the Mangers league. Rumor was after the EDF runs out they might be going for something like that.
[/b]

I think it&#39;d make a big difference.

Fa'atau82
07-08-08, 03:21 PM
Instead of having league play-offs, the 3 dominating european leagues (GP, ML and Top14) should get together and should discuss having the top 2 teams from each league in a Heineken Cup seeding play-off, but league format.

So lets say these teams are.. Gloucester, Wasps, Cardiff, Munster, Toulouse and Stade Francais.

So you have 6 teams, they all play each other once league format and their position (1-6) determines their group seeding for the Heineken Cup the following season.

So lets say it looks like this after the play-off.. toulouse winning and Stade coming last.

Toulouse
Wasps
Gloucester
Munster
Cardiff
Stade Francais

You could go down another two play-off/European places and do the same with lets say.. Leicester, Harlequins, Leinster, Ospreys, Perpignan and Biarritz. The same rule applies and the play-off positions decide what group they will go into. The winners of the play-offs would not be put in with the other winner, so lets say Leicester can&#39;t be paired with Toulouse, but they will be paired with Stade. Like the 1st plays 6th.

So now you have..

Toulouse, Ospreys
Wasps, Biarritz
Gloucester, Leinster
Munster, Harlequins
Cardiff, Perpignan
Stade Francais, Leicester

Add any other Heineken Cup teams (i.e Treviso, Montauban, Sale.. etc) would have to win their league or finish in a Heineken cup slot. The draw would be random for 3rd and 4th group seeds.

Then add last Euro slot teams.. drawn randomly to the 3rd and 4th places in the group (seeds 13-24)

So now you get..

Toulouse, Ospreys, Sale, Treviso.
Wasps, Biarritz, Edinburgh, Newport Dragons.
Gloucester, Leinster, Clermont, Calvisano.
Munster, Harlequins, Montauban, Ulster.
Cardiff, Perpignan, Bath, Llanelli Scarlets.
Stade Francais, Leicester, Glasgow, Castres.

As you can see, very fair groups and on current form.

I can see more European rugby as the way forward.

monkeypigeon
18-09-08, 03:12 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fa&#39;atau82 @ Aug 7 2008, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=339875')</div>
Instead of having league play-offs, the 3 dominating european leagues (GP, ML and Top14) should get together and should discuss having the top 2 teams from each league in a Heineken Cup seeding play-off, but league format.

So lets say these teams are.. Gloucester, Wasps, Cardiff, Munster, Toulouse and Stade Francais.

So you have 6 teams, they all play each other once league format and their position (1-6) determines their group seeding for the Heineken Cup the following season.

So lets say it looks like this after the play-off.. toulouse winning and Stade coming last.

Toulouse
Wasps
Gloucester
Munster
Cardiff
Stade Francais

You could go down another two play-off/European places and do the same with lets say.. Leicester, Harlequins, Leinster, Ospreys, Perpignan and Biarritz. The same rule applies and the play-off positions decide what group they will go into. The winners of the play-offs would not be put in with the other winner, so lets say Leicester can&#39;t be paired with Toulouse, but they will be paired with Stade. Like the 1st plays 6th.

So now you have..

Toulouse, Ospreys
Wasps, Biarritz
Gloucester, Leinster
Munster, Harlequins
Cardiff, Perpignan
Stade Francais, Leicester

Add any other Heineken Cup teams (i.e Treviso, Montauban, Sale.. etc) would have to win their league or finish in a Heineken cup slot. The draw would be random for 3rd and 4th group seeds.

Then add last Euro slot teams.. drawn randomly to the 3rd and 4th places in the group (seeds 13-24)

So now you get..

Toulouse, Ospreys, Sale, Treviso.
Wasps, Biarritz, Edinburgh, Newport Dragons.
Gloucester, Leinster, Clermont, Calvisano.
Munster, Harlequins, Montauban, Ulster.
Cardiff, Perpignan, Bath, Llanelli Scarlets.
Stade Francais, Leicester, Glasgow, Castres.

As you can see, very fair groups and on current form.

I can see more European rugby as the way forward.[/b]


So you&#39;re just gonna kick the Italians out? they add more than you think to the competition. Who&#39;ll cook the pasta???