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Melhor Time
03-10-09, 05:32 PM
Thoughts on Chelo Bosch?

A fantastic return today with a try, a drop goal and good play in general. He had a sad past season missing almost the entire season with a bad shoulder injury. Argentina needed him when Contepomi and Hernandez were injured but he was injured too.

My question is: Does he have the skills to be fullback? Today he was great there against the French champions, Perpignan. Argentina have a lot of options at 10 and 12 (Hernandez, Contepomi, Fernandez and Urdapilleta) with Bosch covering both but options further back are not so strong. Maybe, Bosch would be suited to playing 15 for Argentina? On paper, it looks good as Horacio Agulla could move back to wing which would make the team stronger. Biarritz will likely keep him there now over Brusche and the others.

Also, thoughts on Mattias Viazzo (Bourgoin centre)? Could he be the required back up option at 13 for los Pumas?

Juan VdS
03-10-09, 06:19 PM
Chelo played very well against Perpignan. He kicked well, ran good lines, remained calm under the high ball, was very well positioned and distributed very well. Along with Yachvili they capitalized Perpignan's errors in the set pieces (their line-out was extremely faulty).

As for your question, yeah I think Bosch should play fullback for Los Pumas. Agulla is good, but he is WAY better when he plays on the wing.

My back line would be:

9) Lalanne
10) Hernandez
11) Camacho
12) Contepomi / Fernandez (Felipe is great but I think Santiago Phelan should give Fernandez some continuity at #12).
13) Tiesi
14) Agulla / Borges
15) Bosch / Amorosino

Hernandez has been improving a lot since he plays in SA. He now runs more with the ball and he's becoming incredibly unpredictable.

Matias Viazzo is a fine centre as well, and should be called as back up to cover outside centre. Tiesi is prone to suffering of all sorts of injuries, and since Manuel Contepomi retired we haven't had depth in that position.

Melhor Time
03-10-09, 11:43 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Oct 3 2009, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=414744')</div>
Chelo played very well against Perpignan. He kicked well, ran good lines, remained calm under the high ball, was very well positioned and distributed very well. Along with Yachvili they capitalized Perpignan&#39;s errors in the set pieces (their line-out was extremely faulty).

As for your question, yeah I think Bosch should play fullback for Los Pumas. Agulla is good, but he is WAY better when he plays on the wing.

My back line would be:

9) Lalanne
10) Hernandez
11) Camacho
12) Contepomi / Fernandez (Felipe is great but I think Santiago Phelan should give Fernandez some continuity at #12).
13) Tiesi
14) Agulla / Borges
15) Bosch / Amorosino

Hernandez has been improving a lot since he plays in SA. He now runs more with the ball and he&#39;s becoming incredibly unpredictable.

Matias Viazzo is a fine centre as well, and should be called as back up to cover outside centre. Tiesi is prone to suffering of all sorts of injuries, and since Manuel Contepomi retired we haven&#39;t had depth in that position.[/b]

Fantastic post, muchos gracias. I agree with all of it. I think Agulla is a good fullback but given Argentina&#39;s lack of wingers I think he should play wing. Argentina have Camacho as a new young and very good looking wing. Borges is passed his best and is not likely to be their for the World Cup. Rafael Carballo is not playing in France anymore. He is supposed to be signing to play in New Zealand but nothing confirmed can be found anywhere on the internet. Aramburu is playing in the French second division now and is, at best, back up to Borges and Carballo. he is not a centre. Tiesi is far superior, and hopefully, Viazzo will be picked ahead of him. Mauro Comuzzi is playing well in the URBA compeition and will be in the Pumas squad. I think he is very good. Amorisino is not a wing, but is a fullback who can cover flyhalf. He is a certainty to play on the bench. His form is promising most of all because he is playing well at centre rather than wing.

Dr. Felipe Contepomi is recovering still and is a few weeks away from debuting for Toulon. He will not be in the Pumas for November. Possibly only for the final test vs Scotland. It is too much of an ask to play in the earlier two vs England and Wales. Santiago Fernandez and Marcelo Bosch will be the options. Its too hard not to pick Fernandez at 12 after his great match vs England in Salta.

About Hernandez playing for Natal Sharks, I think that he looks better because of the game plan. Stade Francais liked to use him as a kicker more than anything else. He was under instructions last season from Ewen McKenzie to kick the ball into the sky at all opportunities. Thats nto how they play in South Africa, which is why is was happy to take a pay cut and go there. He will be epic in Super 14. Dan Carter and Matt Giteau will at long last have a quality flyhalf to play against in South Africa.

My selection for England is:

14 Agulla 15 Bosch 11 Camacho
13 Tiesi, 12 Fernandez
10 Hernandez, 9 Lalanne

20 Figuerola
21 Comuzzi
22 Amorisino

No need for a flyhalf on the bench as Fernandez / Bosch can cover Hernandez. Its a balanced team with attacking flair and kicking options at 10, 12 and 15. The backs are lighter than traditionally but I don&#39;t see any issue in this.

Nico Vergallo is third choice scrumhalf now and may not even make the squad. Viazzo sould though.

Forwards are self explanatory based on the Salta test and current form:

7 Leguizamon, 8 Fernandez Lobbe, 6 Fessia
5 Albacete, 4 Carizza
3 Ayerza, 2 Ledesma, 1 Roncero

16 Vernet Basualdo
17 Figallo
18 Lozada
19 Campos

Juan VdS
04-10-09, 12:37 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Oct 3 2009, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=414826')</div>
Fantastic post, muchos gracias. I agree with all of it. I think Agulla is a good fullback but given Argentina&#39;s lack of wingers I think he should play wing. Argentina have Camacho as a new young and very good looking wing. Borges is passed his best and is not likely to be their for the World Cup. Rafael Carballo is not playing in France anymore. He is supposed to be signing to play in New Zealand but nothing confirmed can be found anywhere on the internet. Aramburu is playing in the French second division now and is, at best, back up to Borges and Carballo. he is not a centre. Tiesi is far superior, and hopefully, Viazzo will be picked ahead of him. Mauro Comuzzi is playing well in the URBA compeition and will be in the Pumas squad. I think he is very good. Amorisino is not a wing, but is a fullback who can cover flyhalf. He is a certainty to play on the bench. His form is promising most of all because he is playing well at centre rather than wing.

Dr. Felipe Contepomi is recovering still and is a few weeks away from debuting for Toulon. He will not be in the Pumas for November. Possibly only for the final test vs Scotland. It is too much of an ask to play in the earlier two vs England and Wales. Santiago Fernandez and Marcelo Bosch will be the options. Its too hard not to pick Fernandez at 12 after his great match vs England in Salta.

About Hernandez playing for Natal Sharks, I think that he looks better because of the game plan. Stade Francais liked to use him as a kicker more than anything else. He was under instructions last season from Ewen McKenzie to kick the ball into the sky at all opportunities. Thats nto how they play in South Africa, which is why is was happy to take a pay cut and go there. He will be epic in Super 14. Dan Carter and Matt Giteau will at long last have a quality flyhalf to play against in South Africa.

My selection for England is:

14 Agulla 15 Bosch 11 Camacho
13 Tiesi, 12 Fernandez
10 Hernandez, 9 Lalanne

20 Figuerola
21 Comuzzi
22 Amorisino

No need for a flyhalf on the bench as Fernandez / Bosch can cover Hernandez. Its a balanced team with attacking flair and kicking options at 10, 12 and 15. The backs are lighter than traditionally but I don&#39;t see any issue in this.

Nico Vergallo is third choice scrumhalf now and may not even make the squad. Viazzo sould though.

Forwards are self explanatory based on the Salta test and current form:

7 Leguizamon, 8 Fernandez Lobbe, 6 Fessia
5 Albacete, 4 Carizza
3 Ayerza, 2 Ledesma, 1 Roncero

16 Vernet Basualdo
17 Figallo
18 Lozada
19 Campos[/b]

De nada amigo. ;) I am glad we think alike about Argentina&#39;s back line. If you have a thorough look at it, you can see why we&#39;re no longer a team that limits itself to just fielding hard nosed-forwards. We have some seriously talented backs now, and moreover, they are versatile and young -- which is a critical point in my eyes because Felipe Contepomi is aging and we can&#39;t afford to rely too much on him.

Lalanne: We finally have found our first choice scrum-half. This was a position we had been having problems with ever since Gus retired. Neither Figuerola nor Vergallo performed well in their first tests, but Lalanne showed great decision making and gave our backline quality ball to toy with.

Hernandez: His confidence is boosting up after a streak of good games for the Natal Sharks. If he brings his A game to Los Pumas, then we&#39;ll always have an edge over the opposite team.

Camacho: Fresh talent, this guy is explosive and performed very well against the French Barbarians in Vélez.

Fernández: Santiago is improving on leaps and bounds. I&#39;ve had the chance to watch him unfold his wide range of skills for Hindú at first hand, and he is quite a complete player, perfectly capable of playing either #12 or #10.

Tiesi: An explosive centre, with deceptive turn of pace, and terrific defense. He&#39;s been unfortunate in the past with so many injuries but his time has come; and with Viazzo around that&#39;s one area less to worry about.

Agulla: Great winger, capable of playing fullback -- which is a bonus: we need wingers that are reliable under the high ball, in case we face a team that employs the boot too much.

Bosch: His performance against Perpignan speaks for itself. Just give him a couple more games to develop his game even more!


Your selection regarding the forward pack is flawless, and I agree with all of it.

Back row: Lobbe and Legui will switch roles as the game goes on. Leguizamon has worked on his inconsistency at the breakdown and is not a penalty machine anymore, and his running game is of the best 8&#39;s in the world. Lobbe is quite an underrated player... good at the lineout, quick in the turnover and ferocious in defense. Genaro Fessia is going to be the first choice blindside flanker, that&#39;s for sure. His physicality and fitness are quite remarkable.

Second row: This is the only area I&#39;m slightly worried about. Albacete was the best lock in the TOP14, and his monstruous work rate and lineout dominance are beyond question. But the problem is... who will cover #4? Carizza is good, but he hasn&#39;t had many games to prove himself... and besides him, I don&#39;t see anybody else who could be first choice #4 material (maybe Lozada). Then again, all he needs is more minutes on the pitch and the issue will be sorted out swiftly.

Front row: Explosive and world class. With Ayerza being able to play at either side of Ledesma, and Roncero&#39;s taste for defense and hard tackling, we&#39;re good to go. Ledesma is class, but he&#39;s 36 and I&#39;m unsure as to whether he&#39;ll make it to the next RWC -- but we&#39;ve got Vernet Basualdo to cover him.

The team is finally shaping up and I&#39;m looking forward to seeing them in action.

gingergenius
04-10-09, 11:11 AM
what happened to Corleto and Borges? always thought they were good wingers, especially Ignacio

Melhor Time
04-10-09, 01:28 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Oct 4 2009, 07:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=414854')</div>
what happened to Corleto and Borges? always thought they were good wingers, especially Ignacio[/b]

Unfortunately Ignacio Corleto had to retire after having a shoulder injry that could not heal. His final match was the Top 14 semi final in Bordeaux for Stade Francais vs Toulouse in 2008. He missed the entire 2008-2009 season as surgery and recovery simply failed to get him into appropriate conditions to continue playing.

Lucas Borges is playing for Albi in the Top 14. He is getting plenty of game time, but Albi are in last place. He had a great game vs the French Barbarians in June but was not picked vs England.

Juan

I am worried about the second row, but not so much. I recently rewatched Scotland vs Argentina from 2005 when Argentina won and the second row was Pablo Bouza and Ignacio Fernandez Lobbe. Neither are great in the lineouts. Fernandez Lobbe, was of course, outstanding aroung the park. Bouza was very average and was playing for Harlequins who were in the English second division at the time. Carizza was on thr bench. Both Albacete and Alvarez were injured. Still Argentina did fine in the lineouts. It was Juan Fernandez Lobbe&#39;s first test in Europe and he was probably the best player. He was still based in Argentina. Los Pumas won the game and Scotland had a better set of forwards than they do now, considerably better I think.

Alvarez was never a major jumper. He got 5 or so takes per match. Albacete takes over 10. He doesn&#39;t lose throws directed at him. He steals enough too. He simply needs some support. A guy who is a good ball carrier and can take 5 or so lineouts per match. This is Carizza clearly who is over 2 metres in height. Juan Fernandez Lobbe will tell him what to do around the park.

Juan VdS
04-10-09, 01:48 PM
I agree. With Albacete and Corcho Fernandez Lobbe there, everything should be fine. We must also take into account the tremendous lifting Genaro Fessia does in the lineout and that despite not being quite tall himself (188 cm), he often jumps and receives the ball with ease. This set piece in particular will be fearsome if we work in our maul. We have 5 attritional ball carriers that will bash holes in the other team&#39;s defense and make the hard yards.

Melhor Time
27-10-09, 12:38 AM
I can&#39;t believe he is out injured for 6 months!

He had 4 games after returning from a 12 month shoulder problem and now is out for 6 months thanks to ligament damage in his knee. This is just tragic.

Juan VdS
27-10-09, 12:42 AM
Good lord. Chelo is SO unlucky...

He was playing very well, and was definitely going to make an impact for Los Pumas as fullback. :(