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View Full Version : Bayonne sign Lauaki, Chisholm, Heymans, Tialata and Rokocoko



TRF_Hulkster
16-05-11, 01:52 PM
http://www.espnscrum.com/PICTURES/CMS/15400/15465.2.jpg


Bayonne have bolstered their ranks for next season by capturing All Blacks Sione Lauaki and Neemia Tialata.

http://www.espnscrum.com/francetop14-2010-11/rugby/story/139914.html

psychic duck
16-05-11, 01:54 PM
Lauaki should of stayed with Clermont, he's done well there and they are a much better team and don't have a circus going on behind the scenes,

Amobokoboko
16-05-11, 01:59 PM
Idd, he had a good season with ASm so far ( still in the run for the championship) not sure if tialata will be an added value for Bayonne.

Curious about the frontrow of the Canes next year.

Sam Owen
16-05-11, 02:16 PM
Ahh so thats were he is, I was wondering where Sione was playing. I wonder if hes still good?

Amobokoboko
16-05-11, 02:26 PM
He does start every game ( but that's maybe because they paid big money for him)

Charles
16-05-11, 02:43 PM
lolz at Tialata. He's gonna get murdered in the scrums in France...Lauaki is not too bad but he butchered at least two 2 on 1s against Biarritz. Should take off the blinkers sometimes...

Gavin
16-05-11, 02:43 PM
Lauaki has been playing well for Clermont and I find it strange on why he is moving; perhaps Clermont need to free up a bit of money.

Logorrhea
16-05-11, 03:02 PM
Always thought Lauaki was a bit overrated myself. A bit of a flat track bully that dissapears when his physicality is neutralised. Kinda like an intelligent, slightly fatter Denis Leamy.

Charles
16-05-11, 03:17 PM
Lauaki has been playing well for Clermont and I find it strange on why he is moving; perhaps Clermont need to free up a bit of money.

He's moving because athough he's got lots of muscle he's a bit short on the one between the ears...

Darwin
16-05-11, 10:32 PM
lolz at Tialata. He's gonna get murdered in the scrums in France...Lauaki is not too bad but he butchered at least two 2 on 1s against Biarritz. Should take off the blinkers sometimes...
Personally I don't think Tialata will get murdered in the scrums at all, as he is a very solid scrummager. Indeed Tialata remains one of the stronger scrummaging props in NZ - his biggest issue is his complete lack of mobility around the park. He has issues with his knees, meaning he usually isn't able to train properly, and therefore his fitness levels aren't that high. However, he still does the basics (scrummaging, lineout lifting, hitting rucks) at a high level.

Sam Owen
16-05-11, 10:37 PM
Well it looks like the general consesus feels that hes going good and hardly surprising. I always found him a barnstorming runner however he had a reputation for only being barnstorming against New Zealand teams lol.

TRF_Hulkster
16-05-11, 11:02 PM
Tialata will be a good signing, but will only be good if he stays fit. From what I have seen of Lauaki in the Top 14, can be brillaint or can be dire. Maybe a change of scenery will do him some good.

Darwin
16-05-11, 11:18 PM
Tialata will be a good signing, but will only be good if he stays fit. From what I have seen of Lauaki in the Top 14, can be brillaint or can be dire. Maybe a change of scenery will do him some good.

A perfect description of Lauaki when he was in NZ as well.

ranger
17-05-11, 12:24 AM
Personally I don't think Tialata will get murdered in the scrums at all, as he is a very solid scrummager. Indeed Tialata remains one of the stronger scrummaging props in NZ - his biggest issue is his complete lack of mobility around the park. He has issues with his knees, meaning he usually isn't able to train properly, and therefore his fitness levels aren't that high. However, he still does the basics (scrummaging, lineout lifting, hitting rucks) at a high level.

Thats what i was thinking. 40 odd test matches but hes going to get "murdered" in a domestic comp? please.

Shaggy
17-05-11, 12:25 AM
I think my old ears heard on NZ's Radio Sport that Brumbies and Wallabies lock, Mark Chisholm has signed for 3 or 4 years too ... i'll see if my eyes are more attentive than my ears, and provide a link :)

TRF_Hulkster
17-05-11, 12:35 AM
Ambitious Bayonne sign Wallaby lock Chisholm (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5igX5FYpHU9WRGE1Uo_OhDRMrs5Iw?docId=CNG.b8e24 8e01f0016c2b08efefe5b618571.981)

Shaggy
17-05-11, 12:50 AM
Ambitious Bayonne sign Wallaby lock Chisholm (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5igX5FYpHU9WRGE1Uo_OhDRMrs5Iw?docId=CNG.b8e24 8e01f0016c2b08efefe5b618571.981)

Thanks ... I see I got the length of the contract wrong ... 2 years with a 1 year extension option

... he's always been quite a mobile lock, so its a "good buy" for Bayonne ... and "Good Bye" to the under performing ACT Brumbies

Charles
17-05-11, 02:34 AM
Thats what i was thinking. 40 odd test matches but hes going to get "murdered" in a domestic comp? please.

Considering that Carl Hayman (supposedly the best in the world) is getting done every week, it is indeed probable that Tialata will receive the same treatment. SH props usually find it very difficult to adapt to T14 scrummaging...

ranger
17-05-11, 04:54 AM
Whatever

TRF C A Iversen
17-05-11, 05:30 AM
Whatever

Agreed. If they're all so useless then who's buying them then and why? Obviously someone who knows a little more about the reality of the issue than any of us, and they don't mind buying the right talent from whatever the part of the world they are from.

TRF_Olyy
17-05-11, 08:27 AM
I thought the general consensus was that Tialata was cr*p anyway?
I don't think i've heard a good word said about him on here, before this thread - just people being gutted when he's included in All Blacks squads and getting done in a Hurricanes shirt

Amobokoboko
17-05-11, 08:37 AM
In the 08-09, 09-10 he was decent. But he has become a softy.
If the Canes can clean theri team a bit they can start building as from next season.

Darwin
17-05-11, 09:39 AM
I thought the general consensus was that Tialata was cr*p anyway?
I don't think i've heard a good word said about him on here, before this thread - just people being gutted when he's included in All Blacks squads and getting done in a Hurricanes shirt
That's the general consensus from those that want their props to run the 100m in 11 seconds flat, sidestep like backs, and drop kick goals from 50m.... ;)
I'm not suggesting that he is a great prop, just that he is strong in what I would consider core propping duties: scrummaging, lineout work, hitting breakdowns. It is his lack of mobility and general laziness around the park that are his major weaknesses. He is probably the second best scrummaging tight-head prop in the country (behind Owen Franks), so I would be surprised if he gets 'murdered' every week in French domestic rugby (though to be honest I don't watch any Top 14 rugby, so have no idea what the style/level of scrummaging is). Tialata won't make the AB's this year if everyone is fit, but if there is an injury to either of the Franks brothers or John Afoa I wouldn't be surprised to see him called up to the AB's.

TRF_Olyy
17-05-11, 09:41 AM
Ah right, I don't know why but I thought he was considered a poor scrummager

You learn something every day :p

Sam Owen
17-05-11, 09:45 AM
When I watch the 'Canes and Tialata is playing, I dont even notice him. Hes not a standout player IMO. I do understand prop forwards arent usually the glamour boys but some do get your attention.

He was an All Black though and to me that commands some respect, its not a jersey you just get being mediocre.

Logorrhea
17-05-11, 10:21 AM
Considering that Carl Hayman (supposedly the best in the world) is getting done every week, it is indeed probable that Tialata will receive the same treatment. SH props usually find it very difficult to adapt to T14 scrummaging...
Shame on you, youknow how upset they get when you dont mention how awesome everything in the lower half of the planet is.

Darwin
17-05-11, 10:22 AM
Ah right, I don't know why but I thought he was considered a poor scrummager

You learn something every day :p

I think the idea that Tialata is a poor scrummager is a common misconception, largely brought about by the fact he was yellow carded against Italy in 2009 after the AB's scrum collapsed 4-5 times in a row on their own line. However the yellow card was later annulled by the IRB, and the ref (Dickinson) was stood down from the IRB referees panel and sent for remedial scrum training. All this suggested that Tialata wasn't really at fault! Interestingly, a week later the AB's scrum (featuring Tialata) dominated the French scrum in Marseille, at one stage driving the French off their own ball 5m out from their line, leading to a try by Jerome Kaino....

TRF_Hulkster
17-05-11, 10:54 AM
People above have summed him up, he's not a flashy prop, similar to the old school props of just doing tight work and not being spectacular in the loose.

Charles
17-05-11, 10:55 AM
Whatever

What a clever, well argumented retort. I am well and truly beaten.

Amobokoboko
17-05-11, 11:08 AM
Well, just watch some Bayonne games next season and make up your mind yourselves.
This is not a 'let's diss Neemia topic'

Off topic. he has some good graphic design skills

ranger
17-05-11, 11:09 AM
What a clever, well argumented retort. I am well and truly beaten.

Well mate, i didn't want this non issue to turn into some sort of childish NH/SH ****fight so i decided to leave it and not argue back at all. Even still, this happened:


Shame on you, youknow how upset they get when you dont mention how awesome everything in the lower half of the planet is.

I mean come on, i suggest that a 40 cap veteran may be able to hold their own in a domestic competition and leave it there. Cue hemisphere spite anyway. Well done TRF.

TRF_nickdnz
17-05-11, 12:09 PM
Neemia Tialata isn't a great prop, as ranger and I have said consistantly, but it's no because of his scrummaging. The big problem with him has always been that he is 135kgs and hits the line like a kitten with hemophilia. His scrummaging will be fine. The remarks about Hayman just stinks of pure arrogance. Other than Toulouse (who's best two scrummagers in the last decade have to be Omar Hasan and Census Johnson) there are few teams that have a noticeably great scrum. Hayman had 49 test caps in which he was generally rated as the best scrummager in the world and dominated most international scrums. He was also brilliant for Newcastle. What are you suggesting, France has got such good second rows that international standard props aren't good enough? Why does this not seem to translate in international level? (2009 France got dicked in the scrum) and why if the local talent is so great, do clubs pay such big money for overseas talent?

Woldog
17-05-11, 12:13 PM
If Tialata played like he did for the Barbarians consistently then he would be world class, he was on fire that game but I agree he does hit the line with all the force of a three year old swinging a whifflebat.

Logorrhea
17-05-11, 12:15 PM
whatever

Charles
17-05-11, 01:36 PM
Well mate, i didn't want this non issue to turn into some sort of childish NH/SH ****fight so i decided to leave it and not argue back at all. Even still, this happened:



Ok, my bad :) I thought you were being not very nice...

ZeFrenchy
17-05-11, 04:06 PM
Neemia Tialata isn't a great prop, as ranger and I have said consistantly, but it's no because of his scrummaging. The big problem with him has always been that he is 135kgs and hits the line like a kitten with hemophilia. His scrummaging will be fine. The remarks about Hayman just stinks of pure arrogance. Other than Toulouse (who's best two scrummagers in the last decade have to be Omar Hasan and Census Johnson) there are few teams that have a noticeably great scrum. Hayman had 49 test caps in which he was generally rated as the best scrummager in the world and dominated most international scrums. He was also brilliant for Newcastle. What are you suggesting, France has got such good second rows that international standard props aren't good enough? Why does this not seem to translate in international level? (2009 France got dicked in the scrum) and why if the local talent is so great, do clubs pay such big money for overseas talent?

I'm not a scrum specialist, but having seen Hayman play a few times, I think I can make things a bit clearer.
He is not being destroyed. He has said himself that scrummaging techniques in NZ and France are the exact opposites, so he has had trouble adapting (more than one full season apparently...). I think that the main problem is that he hasn't dominated as he was expected to, so the Toulon president has publicly criticized him in the press, which hasn't made things better.
So, that the scrummaging style in France is different makes that he is less effective (due to his partners' technique, mostly), bu I guess he could still dominate a french scrummaging unit if he had kiwis around him.
Again, no scrum expert, so I may be wrong.

Aout
18-05-11, 11:55 AM
Why does this not seem to translate in international level? (2009 France got dicked in the scrum) and why if the local talent is so great, do clubs pay such big money for overseas talent?


I'm not sure, are you talking about the scrum which schooled the South African one in 2009 (which was considered as the most powerful/best scrum in the world) ? Are you talking about the scrum which dominates the NH (except when the ref is deciding otherwhise, i.e. against England) ? If there's only one thing France is doing well at the moment, it is scrummaging.

ZeFrenchy
18-05-11, 07:42 PM
Midi Olympique, the same rugby newspaper that has published all three moves before they were official, mentions Rokocoko moving to Bayonne as well.

TRF_stormer2010
18-05-11, 07:50 PM
Any chance then that Joe Pietersen might return to SA? The Stormers want him back. Or at least 1 Stormers fan wants him back.

Amobokoboko
19-05-11, 04:57 AM
Midi Olympique, the same rugby newspaper that has published all three moves before they were official, mentions Rokocoko moving to Bayonne as well.

It will be a nice team to follow next year.

psychic duck
23-05-11, 04:05 PM
http://www.rwc2007.irb.com/imgml/peoples/225x225/51308.accred.jpg

Article translated by me from Bayonne website: http://www.abrugby.fr/actu/detail.aspx?NUM_ACTU=2788

The All Black international wing Joe Rokocoko (1.89m, 98kg), has signed for the next two seasons (with an option of a third) for Bayonne.

Was seen at one point as the successor for Jonah Lomu, Rokocoko who will be 28 in June has played 68 matches with the All Blacks. Elected one of the best players on the planet in 2003, he has since played in two World Cups and is in the Graham Henry's provisional All Blacks squad for the World Cup later this year. He won't join Bayonne until the end of the tournament.

"He is a young player with experience, he is still only 27, says Christian Gajan, the director of rugby at the club. We are getting what we wanted, the 10 or so players who are leaving to be replaced by 5 or 6 players high quality players with experience. Joe has an advantage, as well as playing wing, he can play centre, it is a great signing for the club".

For several weeks, Christian Gajan has been in talks with Rokocoko, who plays in Super Rugby for the Auckland Blues: "He knows all about the Top 14 and how Bayonne are doing. We feel he has passion and good mentality and hasn't come here on holiday".

Bayonne have now nearly finished their recruitment, with just one or two to be confirmed now, after the signings already announced of Cédric Heymans, Sione Lauaki and Neemia Tialata. "We are still in talks with one or two experienced players, we will have a squad of 30 to 35 professionals, we will train with 42 players including players from the youth setup. There is not going to be any more foreign players than there were last season". Gajan added.

TRF_Olyy
23-05-11, 04:06 PM
Still can't believe he's only 27

Decent signing for Bayonne

ZeFrenchy
23-05-11, 04:19 PM
Midi Olympique, the same rugby newspaper that has published all three moves before they were official, mentions Rokocoko moving to Bayonne as well.

And they were right.
Perhaps an administrator could merge the Rokocoko/Bayonne thread into this one?

psychic duck
23-05-11, 04:22 PM
Still can't believe he's only 27

Decent signing for Bayonne

yes, when players make their debut so young it seems like they've been around for ages, look at Wilkinson most people think he's like 35 on his last legs but he's still just 31.

Likewise the Bergamasco brothers have been around for ages yet are only 28 and 32.

and Schalk Burger is still just 28

on Rokocoko, I'm don't know why Lauaki, Heymans, Rokocoko, Chisholm are all attracted to play for a team with such a circus going on behind the scenes.

Also I think they're signings are all flashy, but they need some quality to do the unglamorous work up front

When Latham and Gear were at Worcester, they were big name signings but ineffective because they never got the ball in attack because Worcester hadn't good enough players to give them the ball.

teams should invest in a big hard nosed pack first to become decent, a quality fetcher at number 7 and goal kicker to become quite good, and then some creativity and a finisher to become good

Amobokoboko
23-05-11, 07:16 PM
I think marketing, anyway good signing for the club.

KillerMcOne
23-05-11, 07:56 PM
Look likes Bayonne is going to have a strong team in the next season.
I wonder why he was not signed by one of the top clubs

psychic duck
23-05-11, 08:31 PM
To get the full picture of Bayonne next season here is what their squad will look like: (apart from a couple of players will be released and perhaps another two signed)

FB Cédric Heymans (France, 54 caps)
WG Yoann Huget (France, 7 caps)
CT Thibault Lacroix (France, 2 caps)
CT Lionel Mazars (France, 2 caps)
WG Joe Rokocoko (New Zealand, 68 caps)
FH Benjamin Boyet (France, 5 caps)
SH Cédric Garcia (Spain, 3 caps)
PR Aretz Iguiniz
HK David Roumieu
PR Neemia Tialata (New Zealand, 43 caps)
LK Mark Chisholm (Australia, 58 caps)
LK Troy Flavell (New Zealand, 22 caps)
FL Guillaume Bernad
FL Abdelatif Boutaty (Morocco, ? caps)
N8 Sione Lauaki (New Zealand, 17 caps)
Replacements:
HK Victor Manukula
PR Pierre-Philippe Lafond
LK Rob Linde
FL Julien Puricelli (France, 4 caps)
SH Julien Audy
WG Sam Gerber
FB Pépito Elhorga (France, 18 caps)
PR Clément Baïocco
Reserves:
HK François Da Ros
PR Denis Avril (France, 1 cap)
PR Renaud Boyoud (France, 3 caps)
PR Tonga Lea'aetoa (Tonga, 20 caps)
PR Walter Desmaison
FL Francois Carillo
FL Jean-Jo Marmouyet
N8 Dwayne Haare
CT Garth Ziegler (Zimbabwe, ? caps)
WG Marvin O'Connor
FB Joe Pietersen

TRF_Hulkster
23-05-11, 09:01 PM
Add to that that Byron Kelleher is likely to join there too. Could be interesting.

Darwin
23-05-11, 09:48 PM
No surprise to see Rokocoko sign to play in France, as it was clear he wasn't going to sign with the NZRFU. I'm sure his decision to go to Bayonne may have been influenced by the number of other New Zealanders that have signed to play there. He certainly isn't the player he was when burst onto the scene, but he still shows flashes of brilliance, is probably among the most powerful wings around, and has a good work-rate. I expect he will do well in France.

ZeFrenchy
23-05-11, 10:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip-pA1iN8YU&feature=channel_video_title

A sample...

TRF_nickdnz
24-05-11, 04:25 AM
:( In my opinion, on form he was the greatest winger around. 17 tries in one year. He was the AB go to man. I guess it'll be good to see him get some extra cash, but I'd love it if he had a couple more games for the All Blacks. I predict he'll do well in France, and without the pressure of the All Blacks, maybe he'll refind his mojo.

Smurf
28-05-11, 10:44 PM
Well Rokocoko is basically THE best (and most famous) player to ever sign in our team.. i bet even on an average day he will bring a lot to the squad, in both experience, skills, and aura.

Not only that, Bayonne is "famous" in France for having many negociations going on with starplayers, and basically signing NONE. Now that the circus behind the scene is over, signups like Rokocoko, Heymans or Chilsholm, might start to attract other players (not signup only for the money).. so it's indeed a great move for us, both in marketing and on the field.
Basically each of those new signups, have around the same amount of international caps as the rest of the squad combined.. says enough ^^

As for Tialata, we all hope he isn't gonna be butchered like Rodney "Rodzilla" Blake has been, when he played in Bayonne last season.. he couldn't adapt to the "vice/cheating" of the french scrums (blame it on the french referees i guess), and spent his season eating grass..
Then again, their Curriculum Vitae are completely different, again a nice addition to our scrum (since we have no international props/hooker)

All in all, the AB (short for Aviron Bayonnais, Bayonne) fans are thrilled, and very very excited to be able to witness such great players in our stadium next year, bring it on ! :)

TRF_Hulkster
02-06-11, 03:30 PM
Mike Phillips linked with Bayonne move (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13630398.stm)

Byron Kelleher's move has fallen through.

Henson also linked to Bayonne.

TRF_Hulkster
07-06-11, 07:17 PM
Good news for Bayonne fans ... Phillips won't be signing because of his wage demands.

Amobokoboko
07-06-11, 09:43 PM
Well Rokocoko is basically THE best (and most famous) player to ever sign in our team.. i bet even on an average day he will bring a lot to the squad, in both experience, skills, and aura.

Not only that, Bayonne is "famous" in France for having many negociations going on with starplayers, and basically signing NONE. Now that the circus behind the scene is over, signups like Rokocoko, Heymans or Chilsholm, might start to attract other players (not signup only for the money).. so it's indeed a great move for us, both in marketing and on the field.
Basically each of those new signups, have around the same amount of international caps as the rest of the squad combined.. says enough ^^

As for Tialata, we all hope he isn't gonna be butchered like Rodney "Rodzilla" Blake has been, when he played in Bayonne last season.. he couldn't adapt to the "vice/cheating" of the french scrums (blame it on the french referees i guess), and spent his season eating grass..
Then again, their Curriculum Vitae are completely different, again a nice addition to our scrum (since we have no international props/hooker)

All in all, the AB (short for Aviron Bayonnais, Bayonne) fans are thrilled, and very very excited to be able to witness such great players in our stadium next year, bring it on ! :)

some good signing idd, pity Lauaki is leaving ASM ( still my fav Top 14 team)

Smurf
08-06-11, 01:02 AM
Good news for Bayonne fans ... Phillips won't be signing because of his wage demands.

Well apparently it is not over yet.

According to ppl I know, the Bayonne "board" is going to meet tomorrow (that is, in about 10-12 hours), the main topic of the meeting being Mike Phillips.
Since Byron Kelleher's pre-contract has been "broken", hence (most probably) a financial compensation for the club, and the fact that it seems Mike Phillips has lowered his demands.. the ball is on our side.

I'd personally love to see him play in the squad, but hey, who wouldn't ^^

Anyway, we'll probably know more in the next few hours/few days !

TRF_Hulkster
12-06-11, 05:48 PM
Ospreys' Mike Phillips on verge of Bayonne move (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13743283.stm)

ZeFrenchy
13-06-11, 11:15 AM
I don't despise Mike Phillips as much as some people around here do.
He doesn't have the straghtest or quickest pasks of all international halfbacks, but I think he is more than good enough for club level.

What seems odd is all this money being pumped into a side that doesn't play the Heineken Cup...

TRF_Hulkster
13-06-11, 08:18 PM
Phillips signed today ... HERE (http://www.abrugby.fr/actu/detail.aspx?NUM_ACTU=2809)

TRF_nickdnz
14-06-11, 03:00 AM
I don't despise Mike Phillips as much as some people around here do.
He doesn't have the straghtest or quickest pasks of all international halfbacks, but I think he is more than good enough for club level.

What seems odd is all this money being pumped into a side that doesn't play the Heineken Cup...

It's not all that strange when you think about French clubs. Toulon and Racing Metro 92 spent truck loads of money whilst they were still in D2, buying players like Anton Oliver, Andrew Mehrtens, Tana Umaga, George Gregan etc. Even clubs who are trying to get into the second devision and aren't fully professional will spend money on player like Jonah Lomu and Isitolo Maka.