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View Full Version : End of automatic relegation?



Saint N Sinner
16-02-06, 12:04 PM
Tis here... (http://sport.guardian.co.uk/rugbyunion/story/0,,1710680,00.html)

It would be a shame if the system is scrapped.

MightyQuin
16-02-06, 12:33 PM
Certainly was dramatic "theatre" last season - weren't there 5 teams on the last day who could potentially have finished bottom?

I hear the latest premiership fix up though is to automatically promote Quins and the Cornish Pirates making a 14 team premiership, then pull up the ladder.

Not sure how Rotherham, or even more so, Bedford (who are currently in 2nd place in ND1 between Quins and Pirates) would feel about that though.

Saint N Sinner
16-02-06, 12:41 PM
Didn't it mention that if this went ahead it would'nt go ahead until 2009?

Still, any fix in the GP is disgraceful...its about competition...if it was scrapped then if a team had been playing very poorly but had a chance of recovering from the bottom would they care as much if relegation wasn't an issue?

14 teams?

Jeeze...

MightyQuin
16-02-06, 01:13 PM
I can see their argument about not getting young English players on the pitch - who's gonna risk a 19 year old possible talent when you can hire half of South Africa (who don't count as overseas players ... obviously :blink: ) to possibly save you from a million pound loss.

On the other hand - would anyone have cared about Wuss v Saints, or Quins v Sale on the last day of the season if nothing was actually riding on them?

Obviously as a supporter of a team in ND1 I'm in favour of promotion / relegation ... as I was last season to be honest. I was pleased there was no RFU / premiership change of rules to keep Quins up, that would have been even worse than being relgated felt at the time.

Saint N Sinner
16-02-06, 01:17 PM
On the other hand - would anyone have cared about Wuss v Saints, or Quins v Sale on the last day of the season if nothing was actually riding on them?[/b]

Exactly, it keeps excitement in the game.

I have supported the relegation rule for a long time, sure it hurts if you do go down but...at the end of the day, you are playing rugby, its not a little freindly game played by 3ft high jockeys in pimp's outfits.

Like I said it brings the game alive, imagine the amount of people watching the Quins Vs Sale match? And not to mention the Wuss game...

MightyQuin
16-02-06, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Air Ben@Feb 16 2006, 02:17 PM
its not a little freindly game played by 3ft high jockeys in pimp's outfits.


have you not seen Dawson on Question of Sport recently?!?! :lol:

Saint N Sinner
16-02-06, 01:27 PM
have you not seen Dawson on Question of Sport recently?!?! laugh.gif[/b]

Good point :P


But you get my point though...

I assume.

harrison2468
16-02-06, 02:42 PM
If anyone thinks that scrapping relegation will stop teams from playing loads of overseas players, than they are sadly foolish. Relegation costs millions, but so does missing out in the HC. Teams will still look to bring in foreign talent.

Also, Andrew is the whinest c*** ever to grace rugby - shut the f**k up! Relegation is vital to keep the games competitive and attractive to supporters, as well as making things more interesting at the bottom end. There are many other things that can be done to help improve the situation - but this ain't one IMO. However, we all know how good the RFU is! :angry: Can't even co-operate with the clubs.

SaintsFan_Webby
16-02-06, 05:18 PM
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.

However, if they did ringfence the Prem, I could see sides such as Bedford becoming feeder clubs for the bigger teams around them, such as Northampton and Leicester.

Which might not be the worst thing in the world.

Titan
16-02-06, 07:08 PM
On the one hand, the clubs want to rignfence the ZP....and on the other, they are more than happy to raid ND1 for their best young players. Talk about having your cake and eating it.

Rugby is still stuck in the dark ages I'm afraid. :(

Saint N Sinner
16-02-06, 07:31 PM
Club's in ND1 will stop playing such entertaining rugby if there wasn't a big prize at the end.

Lets face it, ND1 champions dont care about the trophy as they are more insterested in being promoted.

harrison2468
16-02-06, 09:04 PM
The ringfencing is always mentioned, but will only happen if Leeds or Bristol (or Wuss/ Irish) go down. :mellow:

Bullitt
16-02-06, 09:14 PM
Because Duckworth invests so much money into the sport, they'd never let Wuss stay down.

DonBilly
16-02-06, 10:08 PM
I think that an important aspect of the professional game in England is that it is managed by two different groups, one for the Professional Elite currently gathered in the so called GP and another one for the so called National Division one. This creates antagonism in the professional game, I don't understand why this is not managed by a same organization. The promotion and relegation would be within a larger pool of professional teams and although this is somethinh all the clubs like to avoid as muchg as possible it would not be a near to death drama. I think this is important to keep promotion and relegation in sports, this is part of our background in the NH.

MightyQuin
17-02-06, 08:43 AM
I hear the ND1 teams now want to scrap relegation from that division ... seems a bit hypocrital given the opposition they voiced when the premiership suggested the same thing!

I just think the organisers of all the rugby events need a good slap!!!

SaintsFan_Webby
17-02-06, 08:44 AM
If they were going to close the Prem off, I could see the 14 clubs being...

Northampton
Leicester
Wasps
Sale
Gloucester
Worcester
Bath
Bristol
Harlequins
Newcastle
Saracens
London Irish

Leeds (only assuming they don't get relegated)
Cornish Pirates (to keep that part of the world happy)

Although a few teams like Bedford, Plymouth, Rotherham and Exeter could stake a claim for a place.



This is assuming it ever happens of course.

DonBilly
17-02-06, 08:58 AM
I don't know what's the situation with respect to the big cities in England but in France a sensible forecast can be that the big cities (Paris, Lyon, Marseille, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Grenoble, Nante, Nice, Toulon,...) will end up with a team in the Elite although not present yet. What we see is that the Rugby scene is quite dynamic and removing the Relegation/Promotion would stall this.

The situation may be different in England and Rugby may be considered to be the sport of the medium cities which cannot afford a good Football club and that there's no wil to popularize it in the desert areas. It seems to me that the GP want to reproduce the Rugby League situation which is well developped around the M62 and struggle to get out of this area.

getofmeland
17-02-06, 09:57 AM
I feel that the premiership should be increased to 14 teams, when you look at the Super 14, it gives a bit more competion, but honestly dont want to see the premiership cut off from the National Division, as it would take something away from the competion, as when you have a situation like we had last year and the way its going this year, it produces an effect where teams perform better and fans get the benifits of a fantastic games of rugby... you also have the chance to see an upset in the league, like last year with the quins

MightyQuin
17-02-06, 10:11 AM
that was no upset - Quins have finished near the bottom for the last 5 years!!!

Not sure about returning to a 14 team premiership though - I would almost prefer to see the premiership and ND1 reduced to only 10 teams in each, with 2 up / 2 down (and 1 down to ND2). This would free up another couple of weeks for players, and also mean less weekends when teams have to field weaker sides due to international call ups.

It would also add to the competitiveness of the ND1 by adding another 2 strong teams, and getting rid of the bottom half who are much weaker. It might also end the fear that being relegated from the premiership would be the end, as it would raise the profile of ND1 - or "premiership 2" as it could become.

oh well - just a thought!

DonBilly
17-02-06, 10:41 AM
I think that England should be much more ambitious, this is the first nation in the world by the number of players. England should be able to get many more strong teams full of English players. I am pretty sure that this will attract more people to the stadiums.

Regarding the number of clubs 14 would be a good compromise but I think that then they should get rid of the Powergen cup like the French did with their own cup.

To free weekends I would change the organization of the H-cup, I would organize it like the Champions cup used to be or actually the way the FA Cup is organised. I.e. home and away matchs with direct elimination.

harrison2468
17-02-06, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by MightyQuin@Feb 17 2006, 11:11 AM
that was no upset - Quins have finished near the bottom for the last 5 years!!!

Not sure about returning to a 14 team premiership though - I would almost prefer to see the premiership and ND1 reduced to only 10 teams in each, with 2 up / 2 down (and 1 down to ND2). This would free up another couple of weeks for players, and also mean less weekends when teams have to field weaker sides due to international call ups.

It would also add to the competitiveness of the ND1 by adding another 2 strong teams, and getting rid of the bottom half who are much weaker. It might also end the fear that being relegated from the premiership would be the end, as it would raise the profile of ND1 - or "premiership 2" as it could become.

oh well - just a thought!
That is a very good idea!

My personal one, as I have posted before, is to increase to 14 teams, but in a Super14 format - so the teams only play each other once. At the end, have the top 4 teams fight it out for the title. Also, scrap the wildcard. With the Cup, change the style back to how it used to be - a direct knockout involving the lower teams, with the bigger teams coming in later.