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View Full Version : New move to drop the Springbok



Prestwick
23-06-07, 09:27 PM
http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/Rugby/0...2135058,00.html (http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/Rugby/0,,2-9-838_2135058,00.html)

Looks like the charge to sabotage SA's sporting chances via political meddling continues on unabated!

March of the beauracrats!

MunsterMan
23-06-07, 09:43 PM
If I was South African i would not want it changed. When you mention South Africa a Springbok jumping around is one of the first things that enters my head, i had to Google protea to find out what it is.

Prestwick
23-06-07, 10:09 PM
Its simple politics Munsterman. To be utterly blunt and non-pc the victors are airbrushing out the vanquished's culture, identity and past and are re-writing history.

This isn't about "standard logos" or whatever, it is because the politicians in power right now never liked the existing logo in the first place.

DC
23-06-07, 11:08 PM
dont the boks already have the protea and the springbok on thier badge, i think its the soccer team that needs to make their badge more like the great springboks!

Prestwick
23-06-07, 11:27 PM
They do, but the government want them to drop the Springbok and keep the Protea.

O'Rothlain
24-06-07, 12:13 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Protea_flower02.jpg/800px-Protea_flower02.jpg
Here's a Protea, in case you are like me. Pretty gay. "Hey, we're the Protea's!" F___in' South African Politics. I feel for you lot.
Why can't the SARU seperate from the gov't? USA Rugby is not part of the American Government...Why couldn't they just be independant? It's as queer as an opal fruit.

shiznit
24-06-07, 01:53 AM
i would probably keep out of this one... so far weve heard the opinions of a couple of poms and a couple of yanks. while its sad that SA would lose the bok it really has nothing to do with us.

while i hate when politics and sport mix(esp the quota system) at the end of the day there govt is representitive of there people which gives them a mandate to do these things.

am i right in saying the rulling party won by a healthy margin too?? its upto the people to let the govt know that they wont have a bar of it.

intrudey
24-06-07, 01:55 AM
sa are never gonna win another worldcup the way things are going especially with the quota system

O'Rothlain
24-06-07, 02:43 AM
i would probably keep out of this one... so far weve heard the opinions of a couple of poms and a couple of yanks. while its sad that SA would lose the bok it really has nothing to do with us.

while i hate when politics and sport mix(esp the quota system) at the end of the day there govt is representitive of there people which gives them a mandate to do these things.

am i right in saying the rulling party won by a healthy margin too?? its upto the people to let the govt know that they wont have a bar of it. [/b]
Boooooooo... :toss:
It has to do with the Rugby Community, when it concerns RUGBY...that's why we're debating the issue on a Rugby Forum...
Is that all I am to you...a "Yank?" I thought we had more than that...? :wah:

goranski
24-06-07, 04:13 AM
bloody yanks can discuss rugby too, we're not just about god, gridiron and the flag :D



personally i think all these quotas and 'get rid of the bok' movements are bull**** - the government in south africa always plays the race card and imposes its own reverse racism - keep politics out of sport, especially rugby

BigTen
24-06-07, 06:17 AM
Ultimately it is up to South African rugby to decide on issues that relate to South African rugby and not the government.



The South Africans have a world-wide brand of "Springboks" and to do away with that would be like shooting yourself in the foot. The name has history, tradition and marketability.



I could never imagine the New Zealand government demanding that the All Blacks change their name and even if they did there would be a huge outcry; and rightfully so.



SA Rugby should frow some balls and tell the government where to go on this one and at the same time should also tell them where they can put their Springbok quota system.



"...keep politics out of sport, especially rugby..." goranksi.



A bit naive there, Goranski, sports and politics will always be intermixed. You would be particularly foolish to even think that they can be separated. It would be good if they could, especially in South Africa, but it is going to take some major work for SA Rugby to fight the government on this one.



But don't worry as fans we will always refer to them as the Springboks or as the 'Boks and we will pass that down to other fans and even to our kids and grandkids. We will make it the unofficial name and simply ignore the "official" new name that the government gives to them. It will be just like all of the English football clubs that have unofficial nicknames that the clubs eventually adopt as their official nicknames. Eventually there will be a new government in South Africa that decides that it is okay for the name to be returned to the Springboks or SA Rugby will just be brave enough to change it.



This isn't really too much of an issue.

Prestwick
24-06-07, 11:58 AM
i would probably keep out of this one... so far weve heard the opinions of a couple of poms and a couple of yanks. while its sad that SA would lose the bok it really has nothing to do with us.

while i hate when politics and sport mix(esp the quota system) at the end of the day there govt is representitive of there people which gives them a mandate to do these things.

am i right in saying the rulling party won by a healthy margin too?? its upto the people to let the govt know that they wont have a bar of it. [/b]

So, because I'm a "pom", I have no right to feel cheated or disappointed by the fact that one of the biggest and most recognisable brands in world sport is going to be scrapped because its "not PC"? And I have no right of reply? Tosh sir, absolute tosh. I bet you voted for Helen Clark too (who, incidentally, says bugger all at the Commonwealth Heads of State meetings because, oh, we wouldn't want to antagonise anyone! Get some backbone you lazy Kiwis!)

This is not what the people want. The government want to settle scores basically with what they see as the last remenants of the old order in South Africa and to be frank, I bet the people couldn't care less. However, we hear the magic word "apartheid" and suddenly, bam! It becomes a cause célèbre amongst the luvvies wanting to change for change sake.


SA Rugby should frow some balls and tell the government where to go on this one and at the same time should also tell them where they can put their Springbok quota system.[/b]

I pray that they do. I honestly pray that they do.

goranski
24-06-07, 05:16 PM
"...keep politics out of sport, especially rugby..." goranksi.



A bit naive there, Goranski, sports and politics will always be intermixed. You would be particularly foolish to even think that they can be separated. It would be good if they could, especially in South Africa, but it is going to take some major work for SA Rugby to fight the government on this one.



But don't worry as fans we will always refer to them as the Springboks or as the 'Boks and we will pass that down to other fans and even to our kids and grandkids. We will make it the unofficial name and simply ignore the "official" new name that the government gives to them. It will be just like all of the English football clubs that have unofficial nicknames that the clubs eventually adopt as their official nicknames. Eventually there will be a new government in South Africa that decides that it is okay for the name to be returned to the Springboks or SA Rugby will just be brave enough to change it.



This isn't really too much of an issue.

[/b]



i'm not saying sports and politics aren't connected - it's just that they shouldn't be and their relationship should be minimized IMO for the sake of everyone



all too often throughout history we've seen the ugly and disgusting side of how governments use sports to their own advantage for the sake of their own image and political ends



personally i don't connect politics or feelings of national pride with my interests therefore they don't play a role



again i think it's ridiculous that an animal in my local zoo is a racist image

O'Rothlain
24-06-07, 06:50 PM
Yeah...that's only because "Crackers" aren't kept in the St. Louis Zoo...I know, I've been there.


:bleh!:

goranski
24-06-07, 09:02 PM
never come across a springbok with such title...

shiznit
24-06-07, 09:33 PM
im not putting the boot into poms and yanks... im just saying weve yet to hear from some actual yarpies as of yet.

it would be real sad if the bok were to go... but unless there people stand up and do something about it then you can only assume that the majority is fine with it. we will soon see...

something else on this topic... i remember that Nelson Mandella actually gave the boks a dispensation from this change. what the hell has changed??

BokMagic
24-06-07, 11:36 PM
The reason why nobody`s heard from us Saffas here yet, is because it`s winter over here, and I reckon most Saffas are doing exactly what the govt. is doing right now, hunting springbok! Well anyway, that`s my exuse- been hunting some real 4-legged springboks this weekend that is.

Anyway, well the present govt. can go ahead and drop the symbol if that is what they really want to do- but to us real Bok fans, they`ll ALWAYS be the mighty Boks. I mean, my old hometown used to be called Port Elizabeth, the "official" name nowadays is Nelson Mandela Metropole. Now, I have the greatest amount of respect for former pres. Mandela- a bloke who actually went out to bat for the retention of our beloved Springbok on many occasions, but to me and all of my mates, it`s STILL Port Elizabeth. As it is according to most road maps.

So yeah, as far as I am concerned, and I think I speak here for the majority of Bok supporters- both black and white- the Boks will always remain the Boks in our hearts, minds and speech. No matter what a couple of politicians might or might not decide in a meeting.

Viva Amabokoboko!

Juggernaut
25-06-07, 12:25 AM
And to most of us mate. No matter the bull**** name they come up with, Spring boks will live forever.

Long Live the Springboks.

Ripper
25-06-07, 05:14 AM
im not putting the boot into poms and yanks... im just saying weve yet to hear from some actual yarpies as of yet.

it would be real sad if the bok were to go... but unless there people stand up and do something about it then you can only assume that the majority is fine with it. we will soon see...

something else on this topic... i remember that Nelson Mandella actually gave the boks a dispensation from this change. what the hell has changed?? [/b]



Heres what the South Africans on The Silver Fern forum have to say...




Once they have their qoutas and the ANC is satisfied they can change the Bok emblem to be honest. At least our Bokkie will be remembered for the good old days. The new emblem they should use Luke Watsons head for all I matter. http://www.daimenhutchison.com/silverfern/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/angry.gif [/b]




Some difficult questions and you are spoton. Well they way they force the qoutas they may aswell take the Bokkie away. At least we will remember the Bokkie with dignity.[/b]




Its not about rugby and it never was, its about political power.

Rugby is still seen, correctly or incorrectly, as the 'white man's sport' and as such is a legitimate target for any ANC politician with an agenda and an axe to grind.

The fact that the government has far better things to spend their time and money on, such as the provision of basic services, education and health care to the people that actually voted them into power in the first place, doesn't even cross their minds.[/b]




Taking awaythe Springbok is the last straw for me. I have supported my country, transformation, BEE and everything to get unified. But I dont feel welcome in my country anymore. Everything need to go black. No oppertunitys for my child to be judged on his performance. How do you explain that to a kid. Because we buggered up now you need to pay the price? Because of that you will struggle to find education and jobs? Dont get me wrong. I love SA and their people, but I am going to move to NZ to give my chidren equal oppertunity. It is not about me anymore. I was blessed with great fortune in business and will withdraw all that money to invest in NZ where I will built a future for my family. I dont feel welcome in SA anymore.

And you know what will make me feel the saddest? There will be black families who I helped built houses and get education that will be without a job now.

Im not turning my back on SA, Im just securing a future for my kid.

See you soon Ferners[/b]




Fuller,

In your naievity, you are making the incorrect assumption that the ANC is acting in what it perceives are the best interests of SA rugby. The ANC doesn't give a **** about rugby as a sport and can see the game only as a festering sore in its campaign for complete obedience across all sectors of SA's economic, intellectual, civil and social fabric.

Rugby's success is a threat to the ANC's soccer-centric view of the world, and particularly in light the controversies around the upcoming SWC in SA, they could do without the negative comparisons to a healthy and successful 'white mans sport' in rugby showcasing them as the incompetant tossers they are.[/b]




A moving piece, Mossel....but I know exactly what you feel. I feel it to. My brother immigritated to Sydney with his family 7 years ago and has been nagging me over the years to move over there with him.
But I am die hard South African with deep roots and loyalties to my homeland. Visited my bro in Sydney many times and what a beautifull city...but I could,nt see my self living there.Could,nt see my self living anywhere. But I also feel just like you, unwelcomed in my own country. I have responded to my brothers vigourous appeals to emigrate that I will never live anywehere else. This year has been the first time I have seriously considered emigrating and I would love to visit New Zealand as a prospective home. The crime, the violence, the "if its white, its not right" attitude of our government, penalties in business for not having a correct number of black managers, the srikes...the obstacles our children face when they finish school. Working and studying hard when we parents know they are only going to get passed over in the working world by the reverse racism policies of the government.

The Springboks as we know it are not going to survive much longer. The political momentume is building. I dont give a **** for colours and quotas and could,nt care less whether the Bok starting line is 15 black players, 15 white players or any number in bewteen as long as it is our best side on the day...

These were the words of Nelson Mandela on his inuagaration. " I will never accept white domination over black, I will never accept black domination over white. I support a free, non racial South Africa" and to that we cheered.

Can you imagine the All Blacks in 15 years fielding a team with a couple of van der Merwes and Fourie in there http://www.daimenhutchison.com/silverfern/smf/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/lol.gif

Good luck Mossel, I have heard of several expats who are leading fruitfull, happy lives in the land of the long white cloud.[/b]

kbourke88
25-06-07, 05:26 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Protea_flower02.jpg/800px-Protea_flower02.jpg
Here's a Protea, in case you are like me. Pretty gay. "Hey, we're the Protea's!" F___in' South African Politics. I feel for you lot.
Why can't the SARU seperate from the gov't? USA Rugby is not part of the American Government...Why couldn't they just be independant? It's as queer as an opal fruit.
[/b]



Better than a soft English Rose!! HAR HAR HAR!!



:bleh!:

Juggernaut
26-06-07, 05:08 AM
Good luck Mossel, I have heard of several expats who are leading fruitfull, happy lives in the land of the long white cloud.[/b]



Greg Rawlinson made it to the All Blacks, Clyde Rathbone made the Wallabies...

Come on over folks. Aussies need more props while we need more.........hhhmmm, actually we dont need you guys. :P

mimic
30-06-07, 03:22 PM
We need their props, and maybe a few of their backs. Our coaching staff would do wonders.

Prestwick
30-06-07, 04:15 PM
Better than a soft English Rose!! HAR HAR HAR!!



:bleh!:

[/b]

You sir, are an absolute imbecile. Thank you ever so much for taking this subject so seriously, why, I would have thought with such tact and mastery of conversation, you would have been at the forefront of efforts to establish world peace.

Ponce.

Air4life
30-06-07, 05:02 PM
F*** usless Goverment!!! There is so much **** in that country which needs some urgent attention (erm.. crime, uneployment etc...) Why the F*** do they want talk about rugby emblems for???

TALK ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G5bXsF2qQs <---SHOCKING!

O'Rothlain
30-06-07, 06:11 PM
F*** usless Goverment!!! There is so much **** in that country which needs some urgent attention (erm.. crime, uneployment etc...) Why the F*** do they want talk about rugby emblems for???

TALK ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G5bXsF2qQs <---SHOCKING! [/b]
Charles Nqakula is a Moron. How has he not been disposed? What a freakin&#39; retarded comment.

QKXV
01-07-07, 12:07 AM
51 murders a day, 151 rapes and 347 robberies but look on the bright side?

I can&#39;t believe what I just saw, I am furious and deeply saddened for those who have to get on with it. I have left my country for the simple reason that I wanted to travel, I&#39;ve been away for more than 5 years, the more I see this kind of crap the more I get the feeling I will not return to make a living there again.

BokMagic
01-07-07, 09:13 PM
51 murders a day, 151 rapes and 347 robberies but look on the bright side?

I can&#39;t believe what I just saw, I am furious and deeply saddened for those who have to get on with it. I have left my country for the simple reason that I wanted to travel, I&#39;ve been away for more than 5 years, the more I see this kind of crap the more I get the feeling I will not return to make a living there again. [/b]

I hear what you`re saying mate, but realy, what you are seeing in the press is NOT the true picture of the way things are at home, seriously.

Sure, there is a massive problem with crime in general in SA, yet I leave my home unlocked when the family goes away to the family farm for a weekend of hunting. The thing is, if you go to the crime capitals of SA, the Hillbrows and Yeovilles of Jo`burg, inhabited by 1,000,00`s of illegal Nigerian druglords, sure crime is high, but that really ain`t the way things are all over here.

Sue, Charles Nqakula is an absolute idiot, but that statement was made almost a year ago. He`s since distanced himself from it, and this was due to some serious pressure applied by the president, Thabo Mbeki. Once again just an example of sensationalist reporting.

For the record, as a qualified pharmacist, I`ve been offered numerous positions abroad, in the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, yet I still choose to live right here, in this so-called "crime infested" country, with my wife and 2 small kids. Do I believe that there`ll be a future for my kids in SA, even though they`re white? Hell yeah, otherwise I`d have been on the 1st plane over to the States ayeons ago, especially considering the type of money they`re offering over there- like 10 times what I`m earning over here.

Sure, there are many greater problems than sporting symbols facing us over here in SA, I fully agree with that. And for me, the Boks will always be my beloved Boks, no matter what the politicians decide, but this crazy, confused, magnificent and beautiful country that is SA offers the type of lifestyle for us average income-earners that only the rich and famous can hope for overseas. This country gave birth to me, and I`ll love and cherish it `till the day I die. And yes, if you`re willing to put in the effort over here, this country could still be great.

O'Rothlain
02-07-07, 04:26 AM
<div class='quotemain'> 51 murders a day, 151 rapes and 347 robberies but look on the bright side?

I can&#39;t believe what I just saw, I am furious and deeply saddened for those who have to get on with it. I have left my country for the simple reason that I wanted to travel, I&#39;ve been away for more than 5 years, the more I see this kind of crap the more I get the feeling I will not return to make a living there again. [/b]

I hear what you`re saying mate, but realy, what you are seeing in the press is NOT the true picture of the way things are at home, seriously.

Sure, there is a massive problem with crime in general in SA, yet I leave my home unlocked when the family goes away to the family farm for a weekend of hunting. The thing is, if you go to the crime capitals of SA, the Hillbrows and Yeovilles of Jo`burg, inhabited by 1,000,00`s of illegal Nigerian druglords, sure crime is high, but that really ain`t the way things are all over here.

Sue, Charles Nqakula is an absolute idiot, but that statement was made almost a year ago. He`s since distanced himself from it, and this was due to some serious pressure applied by the president, Thabo Mbeki. Once again just an example of sensationalist reporting.

For the record, as a qualified pharmacist, I`ve been offered numerous positions abroad, in the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, yet I still choose to live right here, in this so-called "crime infested" country, with my wife and 2 small kids. Do I believe that there`ll be a future for my kids in SA, even though they`re white? Hell yeah, otherwise I`d have been on the 1st plane over to the States ayeons ago, especially considering the type of money they`re offering over there- like 10 times what I`m earning over here.

Sure, there are many greater problems than sporting symbols facing us over here in SA, I fully agree with that. And for me, the Boks will always be my beloved Boks, no matter what the politicians decide, but this crazy, confused, magnificent and beautiful country that is SA offers the type of lifestyle for us average income-earners that only the rich and famous can hope for overseas. This country gave birth to me, and I`ll love and cherish it `till the day I die. And yes, if you`re willing to put in the effort over here, this country could still be great.

[/b][/quote]
Now that&#39;s how you give a f___ing patriotic speach, dammit!
God Bless South Africa.

Prestwick
02-07-07, 09:14 AM
I&#39;ll leave the debate over law & order in South Africa to Bokmagic and QKXV (i.e. the South Africans :D) but I still don&#39;t agree with the proposal of dropping of the Springbok.

QKXV
02-07-07, 01:20 PM
<div class='quotemain'> 51 murders a day, 151 rapes and 347 robberies but look on the bright side?

I can&#39;t believe what I just saw, I am furious and deeply saddened for those who have to get on with it. I have left my country for the simple reason that I wanted to travel, I&#39;ve been away for more than 5 years, the more I see this kind of crap the more I get the feeling I will not return to make a living there again. [/b]

I hear what you`re saying mate, but realy, what you are seeing in the press is NOT the true picture of the way things are at home, seriously.

Sure, there is a massive problem with crime in general in SA, yet I leave my home unlocked when the family goes away to the family farm for a weekend of hunting. The thing is, if you go to the crime capitals of SA, the Hillbrows and Yeovilles of Jo`burg, inhabited by 1,000,00`s of illegal Nigerian druglords, sure crime is high, but that really ain`t the way things are all over here.

Sue, Charles Nqakula is an absolute idiot, but that statement was made almost a year ago. He`s since distanced himself from it, and this was due to some serious pressure applied by the president, Thabo Mbeki. Once again just an example of sensationalist reporting.

For the record, as a qualified pharmacist, I`ve been offered numerous positions abroad, in the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, yet I still choose to live right here, in this so-called "crime infested" country, with my wife and 2 small kids. Do I believe that there`ll be a future for my kids in SA, even though they`re white? Hell yeah, otherwise I`d have been on the 1st plane over to the States ayeons ago, especially considering the type of money they`re offering over there- like 10 times what I`m earning over here.

Sure, there are many greater problems than sporting symbols facing us over here in SA, I fully agree with that. And for me, the Boks will always be my beloved Boks, no matter what the politicians decide, but this crazy, confused, magnificent and beautiful country that is SA offers the type of lifestyle for us average income-earners that only the rich and famous can hope for overseas. This country gave birth to me, and I`ll love and cherish it `till the day I die. And yes, if you`re willing to put in the effort over here, this country could still be great.

[/b][/quote]

Again your eloquent posts gets me right were it matters mate, thanks. Sure the media always gives a distorted indication of what&#39;s going on, all I get here is mostly bad news, if it&#39;s not media it&#39;s the folks or my friends telling me they&#39;ve become victims of crime. My heart pulls strongly South, I am as patriotic as the next South African. Ultimately I am still going back, my folks are getting older and with no one else to look after them or their properties I&#39;ve got little option anyway. At times I seriously wonder if it would be the best for my kid though.

BokMagic
02-07-07, 07:25 PM
Good man yourself QKXV, and cheers for coming back to SA in the future. I honestly believe that we need our skilled people back here in SA, building a brighter future for all. And I do believe that if your children wil put in the effort, they too will be rewarded.

But then again, that`s just the way I see things. I can honestly also understand why so many Saffers feel negative about our country. Hell, just look at what happened to our northern neighbours, Zimbabwe.

But the difference is, Zim`s got an idiot dictator for life running it, who ran the country right out of all of it`s natural resources, screwing over their economy 6-0 in the process. Our other northern neigbours, Namibia, now there`s a whole different story. Still have some family over there- white farmers no less- and they`re enjoying an even better lifestyle than what they had under SA rule before independence. And just like in SA, their economy`s busy growing at a rapid rate.

BokMagic
11-07-07, 09:02 PM
For those still interested in this topic- no lesser a man than former president Nelson Mandela himself has stepped up to the plate to bat for our beloved Bok, giving his complete support to the Springbok as the emblem of the national rugby team. I may not be Catholic, but my goodness, can`t the Pope canonise Madiba right now? `Cause he`s a living, breathing saint, the saint of Springbok rugby that is. First Pienaar`s no6 jersey at RWC1995 final, then his full backing for our RWC2011 bid, now coming out in full support of the Bok symbol. Might just throw a bit of a spanner in the works of the idiots who came up with this stupid proposal to drop the Springbok in the 1st place.

In other news, Charles Nqakula`s been voted off the ANC executive after his little tirade earlier this year. You know, the one mentioned on this thread earlier. Together with him, several other of the more leftist members of the ruling party. Reading behind the lines, the future is looking better and better over here guys.

paulj
20-07-07, 12:44 AM
Hope the young good players from south africa leave and join the ozzies and nz like some other expats.

O'Rothlain
20-07-07, 01:19 AM
For those still interested in this topic- no lesser a man than former president Nelson Mandela himself has stepped up to the plate to bat for our beloved Bok, giving his complete support to the Springbok as the emblem of the national rugby team. I may not be Catholic, but my goodness, can`t the Pope canonise Madiba right now? `Cause he`s a living, breathing saint, the saint of Springbok rugby that is. First Pienaar`s no6 jersey at RWC1995 final, then his full backing for our RWC2011 bid, now coming out in full support of the Bok symbol. Might just throw a bit of a spanner in the works of the idiots who came up with this stupid proposal to drop the Springbok in the 1st place.

In other news, Charles Nqakula`s been voted off the ANC executive after his little tirade earlier this year. You know, the one mentioned on this thread earlier. Together with him, several other of the more leftist members of the ruling party. Reading behind the lines, the future is looking better and better over here guys.

[/b]
Hooray!

Juan le Roux
20-07-07, 07:54 PM
the goverment must not interver with rugby and try to change things just because they can get away with it politics and rugby dont mix well