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View Full Version : SA Quotas reach a new low! Shocking!



DNAPlay
07-08-07, 08:19 AM
Aplogies for drifting off the topic of rugby, but as the quota system is a hot potato at the moment, I thought this would raise MANY eyebrows. Also I'd like to alert the international audience as to the state of South African sport at the moment. It's farcical at best...



From www.news24.com (http://www.news24.com)



Netball South Africa (NSA) announced on Monday that it had devised a new system to reward teams that comply with the required racial quotas.



NSA president Mimi Mthethwa said it had been decided that instead of docking points from teams that do not meet the quota, any team that had the required five-two ratio on court at all times would receive an additional six goals.

If they fielded a six-one ratio, they would receive three additional goals.

In close matches, this could mean the difference between winning and losing.

NSA regulations require teams to field a ratio of five to two on court at all times - either five white and two black players, or five black and two whites. In the past, teams such as Zululand and other rural areas, who have no white players, were consistently docked points, and in some cases, failed to win their section even after winning all their matches.

"We want to adopt a more positive approach," she said. "In the past, some teams were docked so many points that they went into negative territory. This way, they will keep the goals they have scored, but their opposition will benefit if they stick to the quotas. We think it makes more sense to reward teams that meet the quotas than to penalise the ones that don't." http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/More_Sp...2159954,00.html (http://www.news24.com/News24/Sport/More_Sport/0,,2-9-32_2159954,00.html)



So in essence, if teams comply with the quotas (which you'll note DOES NOT favour one specific ethnicity) you'll have a 6-6 scoreline BEFORE the match has even begun! I don't know what is more ludicrous - the fact that teams have to comply with a 5:2 ratio, irrespective of which colour is in the majority; or the awarding of goals to those that comply.



And they wonder why netball superstar Irene Van Dyk decided to become a Silver Fern...

melon
07-08-07, 08:51 AM
That really is crazily stupid. I can't describe that adequately. Wow...

SmokeyMonkey
07-08-07, 09:28 AM
Why? Why does it make difference? They should just pick the 15 best players, not the 7 best black + 8 best white or whatver. If the team just happens to be all white or all black then thats just the way it is.

RoyalBlueStuey
07-08-07, 10:42 AM
What they should be doing is throwing money at sports schemes in under-priveliged black areas. That way, with a level playing field, the meritocracy will sort itself out. Better that than trying artificially level the field at the top end.

Then again I'm sure there's plenty of more useful things to be spending money on in those areas so quotas will be the easy way out of the inequality.

DNAPlay
07-08-07, 11:31 AM
But that's the thing - there is no equality. If the ratio was 5:2, in the favour of non-whites, then it would be "fairly" understandable (still wrong, but at least we get the point) - but what equality does it serve when you say 5:2, irrespective of which colour is in the majority.



How's this for a scenario:



Team A is leading by 2 goals with a few minutes to play, when suddenly, a non-white player is injured. Coach is stuck because the only available replacements are white. Does coach replace injured player with the white player, thus gifting the opposing side three goals immediately, or does coach force injured player to continue "playing"? I'm sure most would choose the latter option, which would result in the injured player just standing around pretending to play.



It's a lose-lose-lose situation, and absolutely ridiculous.



I swear, if the powers that be were to have lobotomies, their asses would come under the scalpel. Idiots.

BokMagic
07-08-07, 06:55 PM
What they should be doing is throwing money at sports schemes in under-priveliged black areas. That way, with a level playing field, the meritocracy will sort itself out. Better that than trying artificially level the field at the top end.

Then again I'm sure there's plenty of more useful things to be spending money on in those areas so quotas will be the easy way out of the inequality.
[/b]

Absolutely spot-on there Stuey. The thing is, that`s the logical way to go about things. And logic, sadly, is not really very high on the priority list of Netball SA.

But at least it`s better than the netball system used about 3 years ago, when the national provincial championship title was decided by, yup you guessed it, "racial makeup" of the sides. I remember the one "finalist" losing by a substantial margin, but being given the title because they complied with quotas, while the other finalist didn`t. Big surprise that my wife gave up on a pretty promising provincial netball career about 5 years ago.

Juggernaut
07-08-07, 10:24 PM
Man that's so f**ked up in SA. I think everyone should just wipe the slate clean and start off fresh.

RoyalBlueStuey
07-08-07, 11:06 PM
Man that's so f**ked up in SA. I think everyone should just wipe the slate clean and start off fresh. [/b]

What have lottery to decide who lives in the mansions & therefore has excellent sporting facilities and who lives in the crime ridden ghettos & therefore has no chance? That a radical policy but yeah, might be a laugh.

The thing is sporting role model are fantastic for increasing the aspirations of people, inspiring them to pull themsleves up from where they are. It's not a particularly elegant solution but it is a tangible one. The alternative is doing it organically and setting up sports facilities in deprived areas but that takes money away from health, education, crime prevention etc etc

I've not got a solution, I understand the thinking behind the quotas and I understand how utterly unfair and unsporting they are....there are much cleverer people than me who can't come up with a better idea but ultimately quotas are aimed at helping people who live in slums and who's parents were treated like animals for most of their lives. If a couple a whiteys get passed over for selection then perhaps it's just Karma for the sportsmen who were forced to play in the negro baseball leagues, or were left out of the old South African sides no matter how good they were or the likes of John Barnes taking abuse from Everton fans, Rod Wallace (I think) taking abuse from his own fans at Rangers.

It's not fair but there's been a lot of that about

DNAPlay
08-08-07, 05:05 AM
<div class='quotemain'> Man that&#39;s so f**ked up in SA. I think everyone should just wipe the slate clean and start off fresh. [/b]

What have lottery to decide who lives in the mansions & therefore has excellent sporting facilities and who lives in the crime ridden ghettos & therefore has no chance? That a radical policy but yeah, might be a laugh.

The thing is sporting role model are fantastic for increasing the aspirations of people, inspiring them to pull themsleves up from where they are. It&#39;s not a particularly elegant solution but it is a tangible one. The alternative is doing it organically and setting up sports facilities in deprived areas but that takes money away from health, education, crime prevention etc etc

I&#39;ve not got a solution, I understand the thinking behind the quotas and I understand how utterly unfair and unsporting they are....there are much cleverer people than me who can&#39;t come up with a better idea but ultimately quotas are aimed at helping people who live in slums and who&#39;s parents were treated like animals for most of their lives. If a couple a whiteys get passed over for selection then perhaps it&#39;s just Karma for the sportsmen who were forced to play in the negro baseball leagues, or were left out of the old South African sides no matter how good they were or the likes of John Barnes taking abuse from Everton fans, Rod Wallace (I think) taking abuse from his own fans at Rangers.

It&#39;s not fair but there&#39;s been a lot of that about
[/b][/quote]



Stuey, again - have a look at the Netball system, and note that the ratio DOES NOT favour one particular ethnicity, and in so doing, segregates the non-whites as much as it does the whites. The Zulu-Land team, which represents a very poor region, contains no white players, which is very understandable. Yet the team is punished because of it. As I said earlier, if the system was favoured towards non-whites, then at least we&#39;d get the point, yet it isn&#39;t.



Where&#39;s the karma in punishing 7 non-whites for having no white teamates? Actually, it&#39;s worse - you&#39;re not so much punishing them, but rather rewarding their opponents, some of whom will be white.



There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for this, no matter how much you spin it. No body wins here.



I understand your theory behind creating sporting heroes for the underprivileged, but does one really need to cut down a thousand trees to make a toothpick? Because the above system, while will no doubt create the odd star, will also destroy many a player&#39;s promising career. That&#39;s not karma mate, just crazy. Plain and simple.

RoyalBlueStuey
08-08-07, 07:44 AM
I understand your theory behind creating sporting heroes for the underprivileged, but does one really need to cut down a thousand trees to make a toothpick? Because the above system, while will no doubt create the odd star, will also destroy many a player&#39;s promising career. That&#39;s not karma mate, just crazy. Plain and simple.

[/b]

Don&#39;t worry, I wasn&#39;t advocating the quota system as a solution...merely playing a devil&#39;s advocate role.

I can see who positive discrimination in things like police forces and locals councils might possibly be a good thing in order to be more representative but as I&#39;ve always said sport should be a meritocracy. I can see the thinking behind contriving the national team via an ethnic quota but ultimately it&#39;ll just weaken the thing it&#39;s hoping to use as a beacon.

As I said there are clever people than me who&#39;ve not come up with anything better...SA, in it&#39;s present form, is still a young country coming out of darkness. This sort of growing pain is inevitable.

MerckZ
11-08-07, 09:43 AM
Cry the beloved country...

Commander Jaco
13-08-07, 04:33 PM
I&#39;m Have no problem with colored players in the team, but I have a major problem with quota players, I wouldn&#39;t mind if the whole damn South African team was colored as long as they played the best (in other words better than any other in the country.)

wesleyfraser
16-08-07, 02:00 PM
This system might get more players of colour into a team but these systems dont get practised outside of South Africa so this point system wont help a team when it actually plays an international competion...

So this will never work...

blackbird762p
16-08-07, 02:25 PM
This system might get more players of colour into a team but these systems dont get practised outside of South Africa so this point system wont help a team when it actually plays an international competion...

So this will never work... [/b]

It&#39;t will never work point.The issue is simple.It&#39;s not about winning anymore.It&#39;s about participating.So in theory they are wasting everyone&#39;s time.

The Coach: He needs to coach a side that is not 100 % his selection etc.
The players: They now have to play with a bunch of players that doesn&#39;t deserve to be in the side on merit but they are there because the politicians require it.
The opposition: They now have to play a side that isn&#39;t in the same league as themeselfes anymore.They bash the other side and see it as practice.
The supporters: They now have to go and watch a game and "try" to support a team that&#39;s filled political agneda&#39;s etc.

So in short if the Quota system is gonna be implemented with more "impact" from next year on in SA we will see rugby go down the drain in this country.I hope this will not be the case but I have seen enough to know that the writing is on the wall. :bravo:

Substitute
16-08-07, 02:36 PM
I think it sets a dangerous precedent and a bad example if you don&#39;t pick the best players in each position and one the IRB SHOULD not allow (I believe it&#39;s in the doctrine somewhere).