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View Full Version : Would you like to see less foreign players in NH rugby?



scuubasteve
17-09-07, 06:13 AM
Its yet another great debate that divides the world in two (mainly North vs South).

Nearly every rugby fan must have an opinion (hopefully) on how they feel about the large number of foreign players now taking part in the European rugby leagues.

Nows your chance to have a say, numerically.

Bullitt
17-09-07, 06:40 AM
How about another option; "No, I couldn't give a toss where the players come from, only that they play for my team."

This thread will turn into another cock waving contest.

scuubasteve
17-09-07, 07:25 AM
Take a step outside the single team nutshell mate.

I'm merely interested to see if people see this as being the big issue that alot of press has dubbed it.

You obviously think it isn't.

If I could add your suggested option I would.
Maybe also a second poll question titled "How big is your cock, really? To take away any confusion for all those who may take the reasoning for this thread the wrong way.

RC
17-09-07, 07:31 AM
I can't add a vote to any of those.
As far as the Welsh regins are concerned - yes, we do bring in foreigners, but - i don't think we bring too many.
The way we structure our foreigners system is so those guys are the ones that will be bolstering our regions when the welsh boys are on international duty.
I think Ospreys epitomise this idea. When internationals are not on we've got a squad full of Welsh boys and most of the foreigners sit the games out or on the bench.
Take the RWC for example, we've lost 13 players altogether - that's a first team, nearly. So when those 13 are out we bring in the 'B' team that did so well last year. Cue Stefan Terblanche etc.

stormmaster1
17-09-07, 10:22 AM
got to say i want to see the SH strs in real action. There is no reason home grown talent can't prosper with their presence.

melon
17-09-07, 11:19 AM
I'm surprised Teh Mite hasn't had an episode of rage and closed this thread. He seemed pretty close to it in his first post.

I think SH players both help to provide a greater spectacle and at the same time help the younger players coming through and develop the already established players a little more.

TongaFan
24-09-07, 05:55 PM
I think anything that helps to increase the standard of rugby has to be a good thing. If the youngsters are talented enough they will still break into the first team. And the increasing competition for places should help to drive them to become better players.

Duckz
06-10-07, 10:09 PM
nah, its going to be great watching all these amazing SH players run rings around people, like latham for example.

zyc
21-01-08, 12:06 AM
I'm new in the rugby world, so I don't have much knownledge about the issue. For that reason my opinion about this is based on info my coach and some experienced foreign players in the local club I play told me and with the experience of football.

What is the profile of the foreign players in europe? I supose (like in football) that most of them are from poor countries of southern hemisphere and, in the case of rugby, some of those countries don't even have professional leagues (south america... great players in argentina... but no money for them there, so they fly to Europe...).

Analysed that, there are two points of view to be considered: the league ones and the national team ones. For the first one the answer is "ok, bring the foreigners as long they play well!". For the second, of course is just a "no".

But to change this "lots of foreigners situation", the main actions should be taken by the countries of origin of those players, not by the countries of destination: Argentina should make a strong league for example. This happens with football here in Brazil: the players go to Europe verry young because the salaries there are 5 times bigger because of financialy weak clubs.

Today money talks folks and in rugby wouldn't be different in most of the cases.

that's my opinion...

nam97
21-01-08, 03:44 AM
Yes, it does matter. I'm selfish so it does **** me off that all our glorious talents are heading North. They should stay, and help our own players enhance their own skills, not the other way round. But of course, this is reality and money is reality.

stormmaster1
21-01-08, 11:26 AM
less of an issue for the argentines. Their union doesn't want a proffesional league. so if you want to be a proffesional union player and you're argentinian, then you have to play in Europe. For the SA, Aussie, Kiwi and pacific players it's the strength of the pound and the Euro, plus the fact that contracts are mostly done through the union not financially independant clubs.

shazbooger
22-01-08, 09:52 AM
Personally I'd really like to see less foreign players in NH rugby. Fewer Welshmen, fewer Englishmen, fewer Scotsmen, fewer Frenchmen and **** it fewer Italians :)

stormmaster1
22-01-08, 01:29 PM
Personally I'd really like to see less foreign players in NH rugby. Fewer Welshmen, fewer Englishmen, fewer Scotsmen, fewer Frenchmen and **** it fewer Italians :) [/b]



"I'm not racist. I hate everybody"

dullonien
22-01-08, 02:58 PM
I voted for yes because it blocks the places of home grown talent.

I'm only talking from a Welsh perspective here (possibly Irish and Scottish aswell), as england and france have enough professional sides to allow more foreigners into their leagues.

With the fact that Wales have only 4 regions, there simply isn't enough space for a lot of foreigners. I have no problem with a few very high quality imports such as Tiatia, Holah and Marchall at the O's, but do they need any more than that? imo Walker is blocking the place of Brew, Vaughton or even Mustoe. Terblanch is ok for when internationals are being played, but I'd prefer a young home grown player instead.

The same goes for Blues, Rush, Molatika and Blair are very good players that improve the Blues team as a whole, helps bring a different way of playing/thinking and should help the youngsters improve. No more is needed imo.

Scarlets have too many foreign journeymen in their team, either sign quality foreigners instead, or blood some youngsters. I'd go as far as saying Easterby might not be needed any longer, with the likes of Dafydd Jones needing more game time to get him back to where he was before injury. King is their only real quality foreigner at the moment.

Dragons have been forced to use youngsters, as they haven't the cash to sign quality foreign players. In their case, a few more may drastically improve their performances in the short term, and give a better environment for the youngsters to enter professional rugby.

That's my opinion on matters, and I think the same can be applied to Irish and Scottish teams, as they are in the same boat as Wales with very few professional teams. Quality not quantity is the way it should be in the Celtic nations.

stormmaster1
22-01-08, 03:08 PM
I voted for yes because it blocks the places of home grown talent.

I'm only talking from a Welsh perspective here (possibly Irish and Scottish aswell), as england and france have enough professional sides to allow more foreigners into their leagues.

With the fact that Wales have only 4 regions, there simply isn't enough space for a lot of foreigners. I have no problem with a few very high quality imports such as Tiatia, Holah and Marchall at the O's, but do they need any more than that? imo Walker is blocking the place of Brew, Vaughton or even Mustoe. Terblanch is ok for when internationals are being played, but I'd prefer a young home grown player instead.

The same goes for Blues, Rush, Molatika and Blair are very good players that improve the Blues team as a whole, helps bring a different way of playing/thinking and should help the youngsters improve. No more is needed imo.

Scarlets have too many foreign journeymen in their team, either sign quality foreigners instead, or blood some youngsters. I'd go as far as saying Easterby might not be needed any longer, with the likes of Dafydd Jones needing more game time to get him back to where he was before injury. King is their only real quality foreigner at the moment.

Dragons have been forced to use youngsters, as they haven't the cash to sign quality foreign players. In their case, a few more may drastically improve their performances in the short term, and give a better environment for the youngsters to enter professional rugby.

That's my opinion on matters, and I think the same can be applied to Irish and Scottish teams, as they are in the same boat as Wales with very few professional teams. Quality not quantity is the way it should be in the Celtic nations. [/b]



Got to agree there. The french and english clubs are more numerous and so there are more places for foreigners. They also seem to have more financial indepedance.

187
22-01-08, 10:31 PM
i couldn't vote because i don't agree with any of those options. what happened to the plain old "YES" option?

i would vote yes. i'd like to see it become more like soccer, however i'd like the games to be more available on TV around the world. even the div2 matches of some competitions as there are some good players in those teams.

sambãd5
22-01-08, 11:30 PM
its good for the struggling teams. look at the warriors in the nrl. they use to be mainly a nz team. but then they got a whole heap of aussies in their team (and some nzers who played all their carrer in oz) and it got them going. once their on a roll, they win more matches, more intrest in the team, more money on the team, more money to spend on coaches, and retian players etc.

so the bigger teams in the nh dont need them, yes it is perfectly acceptable to have 1,2 or even 3 non-natives in the team, but theres no point for team or country to have a large section of the team to be imports, especially for a substantial time.

redunderthebed
23-01-08, 05:53 AM
How about another option; "No, I couldn't give a toss where the players come from, only that they play for my team."

This thread will turn into another cock waving contest. [/b]

Quite right.

If we are going to be an international game our leagues in NH and SH must reflect this.

Steve-o
23-01-08, 06:55 AM
<div class='quotemain'> How about another option; "No, I couldn&#39;t give a toss where the players come from, only that they play for my team."

This thread will turn into another cock waving contest. [/b]

Quite right.

If we are going to be an international game our leagues in NH and SH must reflect this.
[/b][/quote]
The problem is that&#39;s one way traffic.



When this happens an unbalancing occurs.



Simple math really

Vambo
23-01-08, 08:49 AM
Yes. I do think there are too many.
I can understand why though. Why would a club that loses a load of its players to international duty for two chunks of the season (6 Nations & Autumn Intenationals) see any attraction in having yet more home grown players when it could buy in journeyman pros from the SH who will not be lost to international duty?

Muse_Cubed
16-03-08, 02:21 PM
If they remain longtime servants to the club I&#39;m all for it. It&#39;s just the one or two year rentals/coming over during twilight years for a quick buck that I can&#39;t stand.

Tigersmad
20-03-08, 02:35 PM
rugby union in the world will only get worse, its rugby league with rucks and mauls any1 agree?

dullonien
20-03-08, 03:42 PM
which makes it completely different!

Dozzy_X
20-03-08, 05:00 PM
I think its good to see overseas players, you can&#39;t deny that they have improved the premiership no end, and i dont believe the England team is suffering from lack of home grown talent, thats the RFU and their silly ideas of coaching positions. I&#39;m all for it

stuc
20-03-08, 05:14 PM
difficult to say because they make the show!!

erwanseb
13-05-08, 03:59 PM
Rugby is no different than any other economic activities, migrants are just pursuing the best career opportunities on offer, like any of us would do.

A few may prefer to stay in their home country regardless of the salary difference, it is a personal choice.

But rugby clubs like any corporation are chasing highly skilled workers worldwide and there are not many borders left in a globalized world to stop the trend.

Investment bankers on Wall street (although laying off at the moment) just do the same.
Boeing, Airbus, Microsoft , Google are recruiting worldwide.

Dubai population is composed at 80% of migrants.

There are very few economic activities left where there is a national preference, except civil service (police, army) and defense industry.

Cymro
13-05-08, 04:52 PM
The overseas players in Wales are monitored as you can only sign 4-5 NWQ (Non Welsh Qualified Players)

The likes of Marshall, Holah, Rush, Tito have helped developed the Welsh sides ten fold. Marshall has pushed Phillips this season and the improvements have been great. Holah has brought the best out of some of the youngsters like Ben Lewis, Tito has sorted out the Blues linout this season and Rush adds the expereince at 8 that the Blues has needed.

Thingimubob
13-05-08, 04:59 PM
Like RC said, it is possible to breed home grown talent, and have a number of SH Stars as well. But, there&#39;s gotta be some kind of limit (and as far as I know, the Welsh Regions do have a limit), or as someone said, we&#39;ll go down the road that Football has gone down, and while the top clubs will be strong, in the long run, NH Rugby will go down the pan. I mean, if you want to use football as an example, just look at England! Was reading something about the Premier League is getting boring, because only 4 teams stand any chance of winning it, because they&#39;re rich enough to sign all the best foreign players, as well as using their home grown players. And if you look at the Champions League, all 4 of these teams got the 1/4 finals, 3 to the semi&#39;s, and now it&#39;s an all English final. Great for English football? No. The national side didn&#39;t qualify for Euro 2008. Do we want to see that happen to NH Rugby? I definitely don&#39;t.

mike-o-l
13-05-08, 05:36 PM
It does help players but it always seems to increase in Numbers. at the moment its more of the Southern Hemisphere teams feeling the pinch but soon you could see more foreigners than locals in a team.

They need to make a limit on the number in your starting five teen and in the 22. Its at the stage where the Premier league was ten years ago. Many top teams were headed by Foreigners. Now look at it, there&#39;s maybe on English player in Arsenal.

Europe has been for the last few years a place for players who couldn&#39;t get into there National teams could get payed well. But now its turning to a place here star players are going and thats a big risk to the Southern Hemisphere game.

Last point is my only problem about Quotas of International Players is players who play for Fiji, Samao, Tonga, Argentina and teams like Georgia will not have a professional league to play in. They would struggle to keep up with the European (with Pro leagues) and SANZAR nations in terms of quality of Rugby.

DonBilly
03-06-08, 08:12 AM
In principle I am not against having good players comming from abroad. It is benefitial to the team, the players and the fans. This contributes also to opening the minds.

On the other hand what we are seeing nowadays is that actually many foreigners are employed by the clubs because they are cheaper than the local players and it&#39;s no more a question of good or bad players.

Quotas can be put in place but before that the European Union rules must be amended for sport and even though I am not sure that this exception cannot be broken by the European Court. These quotas then should be applied to all nationalities, e.g. an Irish guy playing for an English club should be counted like an Argie playing for a French club since many of the SH players have a European passport thank to their ancesters.

Jer1cho
03-06-08, 08:35 AM
I wouldnt mind seeing more NH players in the Super 14. Michalak&#39;s addition to the Sharks was pretty cool imo. I think it would be awesome to see some top notch NH players grind it up down here. :P

nam97
03-06-08, 11:21 AM
I wouldnt mind seeing more NH players in the Super 14. Michalak&#39;s addition to the Sharks was pretty cool imo. I think it would be awesome to see some top notch NH players grind it up down here. :P
[/b]

Same here, although we didn&#39;t see much of him.

We need more SH - NH interaction &#39;cos I (and many more I&#39;m sure) hardly know anything about the players up North. Apart from watching the mid year and end of year tests, that isn&#39;t enough.

I can always follow the leagues up North but I generally lose interest as I have no real team to support.

Hamster
03-06-08, 11:28 AM
Would be good to see some NH come down and play in the South for once!!

errlloyd
06-07-08, 01:34 AM
I voted ignorance cause it seemed the shortest option and I don&#39;t need to defend it. But honestly so long as the rugby is good I am happy. What I don&#39;t really like so much is big wallet teams. For example Munster are not a big wallet team they are good although they have foreign players, the players came to them. Toulon and Stade are big wallet teams.



Btw whats with all the Lupus sigs, wasn&#39;t it lupus eventually ?

KZNSharksFan
06-07-08, 04:31 AM
I think its unfair that the rich clubs in europe get to buy all the best players :wah: . Screw it, lets disband professionalism in rugby

peppers07
06-07-08, 09:37 AM
I read some where that the IRfU also have a limit on the number of foreign players the four provinces can buy. I think its a maximum of about 6 or 7 per sqaud

Bullitt
06-07-08, 09:58 AM
Tat&#39;s all dependant on loopholes; In the GP for example, the teams are allowed 1 forigen player, which is basically NZ, Aus & the Americas. SA and the PI&#39;s cannot count into these as under european trade laws it counts as discrimination.

Another loophole is residency/spousal residency, so Matt Burke (having been in England for so long) was technically English when he retired despite all his Wallabies caps, The Lobbe brothers are fine because they have european wives and Bruce Reihana has a French mother co can play as though he is Les Bleu.

It&#39;d be very easy for a team of XV to be made up of forigen players exploiting the system, just look at Worcester!

Still, the main reason so many SH guys come here (in England at least) is because of the elitist attitude of the RFU; They believe the development of top players is the sole responsability of the clubs and make minimal investmant into nurturing the youngsters. Playing for England is of highest importance to Baron and co, while the clubs just want a return on their investment that makes it not worth developing youngster who will swan of for pointless SH tours and autumn tests. So for example a Kiwi, who ineligable for the AB because of their selection policy then spends the full season at the club, is a much more sound investment.