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View Full Version : why did the borders reivers disappear?



lexave333
27-09-07, 12:23 PM
HELLO!
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY THERE IS ONLY TWO SCOTTISH TEAMS IN THE MAGNERS LEAGUE?

Bullitt
27-09-07, 12:30 PM
The SRU is broke and couldn't afford to keep 3 franchises running.

ecks tartan army
27-09-07, 06:26 PM
correction: they couldnt afford to keep 2 teams running. but apparently, only a few months down the line, they now can! ;)

Get In Lads!
04-10-07, 02:22 AM
I agree the Scots are under represented in the Magners, with only two teams to Wales and Ireland's four a piece, with the SRU and its financial woes preventing expansion.

I'd try to bring Scotland up to four teams by ressurecting a team in the Borders, where rugby is very popular and try to get another one in the North East, from Aberdeen and Dundee.

Cymro
04-10-07, 10:38 AM
Yea could do that is rugby popular in the North-East?

Prestwick
04-10-07, 11:01 AM
I went to University in Aberdeen (RGU not the actual bankrupt US & European holiday camp that is Aberdeen University) and I can say that because there is a huge Irish contingent there studying in the city and because Rugby is always popular to watch on a weekend in the bars, I'm sure that if it were well promoted at Aberdeen Uni, RGU and Aberdeen College with offers of cut price tickets, booze, offers, etc, you could get a good crowd to Pitodrie.

Then again.....this is Pitodrie, most depressing and desolate football ground in the whole wide world we're talking about.

Borders went under because nobody was attending. The average borders fan seems to think that they can have their cake and eat it, that is to have a professional regional team to have but never attend any matches and yet still have their dream world of amateur rugby which can continue forever.

The situation was frankly absurd, much like Wales and the Celtic Warriors regional club, and so the SRU put a stop to it. What cocked things up was that the SRU did it when they blatantly did not have enough money to start a new franchise elsewhere such as in Stirling or in Aberdeen so it turned into a cynical cost cutting measure.

skiptomylou93
14-11-07, 10:23 PM
scottish rugby is definitely in crisis , murrayfield was empty for the first round of heineken cup....

ecks tartan army
18-11-07, 09:55 AM
scottish rugby is definitely in crisis , murrayfield was empty for the first round of heineken cup.... [/b]



i wouldnt say scottish rugby is in crisis, that was inevitbale after the turmoil ER went through in the summer.



there must have been about 2000 around for Glasgows first home game and hopefully crowds will increase due to the extra media exposure the game is beginning to get in scotland.

O'Rothlain
18-11-07, 01:45 PM
http://www.premiumseatsusa.com/concert/David-Copperfield/images/david_copperfield.jpg
I thought it was David Copperfield who made the Borders Reivers disappear!

Incredible Schalk
23-11-07, 08:38 AM
I went to see the Borders last year against Ulster i think it was and they were absoloutely dire. 36-0 at home and you could almost hear traces of laughter when the 4th try was conceded. The crowd thing did baffle me, the Borders is rugby mad unlike the rest of Scotland so having a pro team seemed logical but for some reason they just couldnt draw the fans. I suppose that will have something to do with never winning :blink:

ikvat
23-11-07, 09:37 AM
Crisis is deeper and older.
Scottish rugby suffer of disaffection since a while, but why?
I spent time on some French rugby forums and the feeling is unanimously shared: French rugby fans are sad about that fact because we have a lot of consideration and love for Scottish rugby and especially for their marvelous fans.

Prestwick
23-11-07, 07:38 PM
Crisis is deeper and older.
Scottish rugby suffer of disaffection since a while, but why?
I spent time on some French rugby forums and the feeling is unanimously shared: French rugby fans are sad about that fact because we have a lot of consideration and love for Scottish rugby and especially for their marvelous fans. [/b]


I went to see the Borders last year against Ulster i think it was and they were absoloutely dire. 36-0 at home and you could almost hear traces of laughter when the 4th try was conceded. The crowd thing did baffle me, the Borders is rugby mad unlike the rest of Scotland so having a pro team seemed logical but for some reason they just couldnt draw the fans. I suppose that will have something to do with never winning :blink: [/b]

When you talk to the Scottish fans and when you go to rugby games across the country there, they are passionate about the game, incredibly so. There is nothing better than to turn up to a game in the middle of January and pick up a free cup of tea and a scotch pie, simply magical.

However, I think what happened was at the advent of profesionalism in 1996, the SRU decided to go for broke and split Scotland into four regions in which the borders got their own region.

Now, this must only mean good things you may think. A rugby mad region producing 80% of Scotland's talent for decades getting their own team to compete on an international stage. However, there are several things that have to be taken into consideration.

First of all, we have the nightmare situation which chaps like Saints fan Webby and TehMite mention on these forums: that is suddenly lumping together a region of fiercely independent clubs with distinct identities into one region. If you suddenly tell fans who support rival clubs to suddenly support a brand new super-club together, its plainly not going to work.

Secondly, the region of the Borders is also fiercely amateur. While the other parts of Europe were moving towards professionalism, the Borders stuck with their line that amateurism was best for their reason.

Beleive me, if the rugby people of the Borders wanted to support Border Reivers, they would have. It is rather ironic that for years, the Borders complained endlessly about professionalism this and Border Reivers are pointless that while trumpeting their own little club competitions in their own little Borders world and then when the SRU decide that enough was enough and knocked Border Reivers on the head, they all suddenly turn up in their droves, dismayed that they can't have their cake and eat it.

The problem was that the Borders fans liked having a biggish Rugby Club to represent them on the bigger stage but just didn't believe in the Reivers...which is a kind of contradiction in a way.

In my opinion, leave them to it. They want to ignore reality and live out their days in their little dream world of the Borders where professionalism never happened and how they are the center of the universe and this is to the detrement of Scottish rugby as a whole.

If fans had given Reivers a chance and turned up in their droves then they would have been far more successful and as a result, the talent that comes out of such an extraordinarily small region would be able to compete on the big stage for a big Scottish club day in day out. Instead, they have to go to France and England for that and the blame for that can be laid jointly at the doors of the selfish fans of the Borders and the incompetent SRU.

ikvat
24-11-07, 07:34 AM
<div class='quotemain'> Crisis is deeper and older.
Scottish rugby suffer of disaffection since a while, but why?
I spent time on some French rugby forums and the feeling is unanimously shared: French rugby fans are sad about that fact because we have a lot of consideration and love for Scottish rugby and especially for their marvelous fans. [/b]


I went to see the Borders last year against Ulster i think it was and they were absoloutely dire. 36-0 at home and you could almost hear traces of laughter when the 4th try was conceded. The crowd thing did baffle me, the Borders is rugby mad unlike the rest of Scotland so having a pro team seemed logical but for some reason they just couldnt draw the fans. I suppose that will have something to do with never winning :blink: [/b]

When you talk to the Scottish fans and when you go to rugby games across the country there, they are passionate about the game, incredibly so. There is nothing better than to turn up to a game in the middle of January and pick up a free cup of tea and a scotch pie, simply magical.

However, I think what happened was at the advent of profesionalism in 1996, the SRU decided to go for broke and split Scotland into four regions in which the borders got their own region.

Now, this must only mean good things you may think. A rugby mad region producing 80% of Scotland&#39;s talent for decades getting their own team to compete on an international stage. However, there are several things that have to be taken into consideration.

First of all, we have the nightmare situation which chaps like Saints fan Webby and TehMite mention on these forums: that is suddenly lumping together a region of fiercely independent clubs with distinct identities into one region. If you suddenly tell fans who support rival clubs to suddenly support a brand new super-club together, its plainly not going to work.

Secondly, the region of the Borders is also fiercely amateur. While the other parts of Europe were moving towards professionalism, the Borders stuck with their line that amateurism was best for their reason.

Beleive me, if the rugby people of the Borders wanted to support Border Reivers, they would have. It is rather ironic that for years, the Borders complained endlessly about professionalism this and Border Reivers are pointless that while trumpeting their own little club competitions in their own little Borders world and then when the SRU decide that enough was enough and knocked Border Reivers on the head, they all suddenly turn up in their droves, dismayed that they can&#39;t have their cake and eat it.

The problem was that the Borders fans liked having a biggish Rugby Club to represent them on the bigger stage but just didn&#39;t believe in the Reivers...which is a kind of contradiction in a way.

In my opinion, leave them to it. They want to ignore reality and live out their days in their little dream world of the Borders where professionalism never happened and how they are the center of the universe and this is to the detrement of Scottish rugby as a whole.

If fans had given Reivers a chance and turned up in their droves then they would have been far more successful and as a result, the talent that comes out of such an extraordinarily small region would be able to compete on the big stage for a big Scottish club day in day out. Instead, they have to go to France and England for that and the blame for that can be laid jointly at the doors of the selfish fans of the Borders and the incompetent SRU.
[/b][/quote]
Very interesting post, thx!
I imagine that my bold quote is the most important consideration to keep in mind on behavior fans.

ecks tartan army
24-11-07, 08:52 PM
Ian Riddoch comented this week about the differences in the problems facing Glasgow and Edinburgh at the moment than those that caused the closure of the borders. He talks about how the problem (particularly in glasgow) is that people dont know the team exists. In the borders however, everyone knew of the teams existence and even when they were playing. They just didnt go! This is a very hard problem to rectify, and nothing was happing except the reivers being a strain on SRU resources - finally the SRU decided enough was enough and pulled the plug!

Reports today though suggest a consortium wishes to open a new pro franchise playing at pitodrie.

Prestwick
24-11-07, 09:53 PM
Yeah thats been a rumour for years that a consortium of Scottish businessmen want to recreate the mythical "4th region" in Scotland, either back at Stirling or in Aberdeen at Pitodrie. Personally, because Pitodrie is a fair way out of the City center, I think it might be better to hold it in Stirling. However, there are allot of Rugby fans in both RGU and Aberdeen Uni (the latter literally only 500m away from the Stadium).

màiri
25-11-07, 09:29 PM
scottish rugby is definitely in crisis , murrayfield was empty for the first round of heineken cup....
[/b]

Well! Actually for Edinburgh matches only the West Stand is open. And honnest during the match against Toulouse it was quite full. Players said that they were happy to see such a crowed and to hear them shout like that. So it was not that bad! ;)

The problem is that we shouldn&#39;t play at Murrayfield but in a smaller stadium I guess! :unknw:
Could you imagine that 60,000 persones at each game in Murrayfield?

Anyway, i heard that the SRU was thinking about setting up a new profesional team in London, just like the London Irish. Have anyone else heard that?
I don&#39;t think that this a good solution to promote rugby in Scotland!

ecks tartan army
26-11-07, 03:18 PM
what was the attendance at that game?

Glasgow are getting around 2,000 at the moment - with 2700 for the Ulster match. and yes, Murrayfield is crap for pro rugby - went through for the Edinburgh v Ulster match and there was no atmosphere - infact we had better the following week with 100 less in attendance!

màiri
27-11-07, 08:07 PM
what was the attendance at that game?

Glasgow are getting around 2,000 at the moment - with 2700 for the Ulster match. and yes, Murrayfield is crap for pro rugby - went through for the Edinburgh v Ulster match and there was no atmosphere - infact we had better the following week with 100 less in attendance!
[/b]

There were 3,393 spectators. Honestly, not that bad! :victory: I wasn&#39;t at the stadium for that particular game but I heard that for once their was nice atmosphere... But you&#39;re right I don&#39;t really like murrayfield for Edinburgh. Even if you know it and you&#39;re used to it, seeing the stadium almost empty and hearing the echo... Not good for warm atmosphere! :(

Prestwick
28-11-07, 07:24 PM
Edinburgh through first the SRU and then their former franchise owners had been in negotiations with Edinburgh council to move to a new athletics stadium with room for a warm happy 15,000 chappies at Sighthill.

However high costs and a fickle, luvvie packed, rugby hating, dive-ball loving Edinburgh council meant that the move never happened. Of course there were petitions from various groups against the move from the existing athletics track at Meadowbank but that was..meh..didn&#39;t really have the effect of a load of upper class twits at the City Council. There had been an idea to move to...er...Livingston though...

ecks tartan army
28-11-07, 08:40 PM
Edinburgh through first the SRU and then their former franchise owners had been in negotiations with Edinburgh council to move to a new athletics stadium with room for a warm happy 15,000 chappies at Sighthill.

However high costs and a fickle, luvvie packed, rugby hating, dive-ball loving Edinburgh council meant that the move never happened. Of course there were petitions from various groups against the move from the existing athletics track at Meadowbank but that was..meh..didn&#39;t really have the effect of a load of upper class twits at the City Council. There had been an idea to move to...er...Livingston though... [/b]



livingston? dosent surprise me - they wanted to move us to PERTH! (considering were just begining to get a little fan base after the SRU lost the last one by fecking about with players!)

Prestwick
28-11-07, 08:51 PM
Well, anywhere is better than Dundee....*shiver* whenever the train stopped there all the Aberdonian passengers would tighten visibly and you could almost hear the driver nervously gun the engine of the train, anxious to get out of the damn city.

Incredible Schalk
29-11-07, 01:31 PM
Well, anywhere is better than Dundee....*shiver* whenever the train stopped there all the Aberdonian passengers would tighten visibly and you could almost hear the driver nervously gun the engine of the train, anxious to get out of the damn city.
[/b]


Completely off topic but i live half an hour from Dundee and i hate the place, filled with neds :rahh:

ecks tartan army
29-11-07, 04:42 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Well, anywhere is better than Dundee....*shiver* whenever the train stopped there all the Aberdonian passengers would tighten visibly and you could almost hear the driver nervously gun the engine of the train, anxious to get out of the damn city.
[/b]


Completely off topic but i live half an hour from Dundee and i hate the place, filled with neds :rahh: [/b][/quote]



swap Dundee for Glasgow and the same applies to me! ;)



well, it aint that bad actually. as long as you dont go into the centre on the day of a Celtic home game, or to an extent a rangers home game either.



unfortunatly weve now moved home to Maryhill - which adds a bit of excitment to your evening. you come out after the match and start worrying aboot getting back to your car - or what will actually be left of your car when you get there! :D

màiri
01-12-07, 02:12 PM
Good deal for Edinburgh who won yesterday against Ulster:

Ulster 14-20 Edinburgh

So we are now the sixth in the rankin! :fb:

Prestwick
01-12-07, 02:15 PM
Not that rankings actually means much in Rugby Purgatory (Magners League)...

An Tarbh
01-12-07, 03:34 PM
For the last f***ing time they do. :wall: :wall: :wall:

Prestwick
01-12-07, 06:33 PM
You know in the second series of the Sopranos when Chris gets shot and survives and talks about purgatory? He talks about seeing his Dad playing cards with a leprachaun and getting shot in the eye...while watching the Magners League...

màiri
02-12-07, 12:28 PM
Well mate! If you don&#39;t like the Magners League Let&#39;s stay in the Guinness Premiership forum... :ranting: