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View Full Version : More All Blacks heading to France?



nam97
07-10-07, 03:56 AM
What's the news on this?

Apparently Jerry Collins and Keith Robinson are going to Tolouse next year.
Also, Mils Muliaina and Joe Rokocoko to Stade Francais.

My god, is this true? Never would have thought these guys would even contemplate leaving. Must be trying to avoid the welcoming party back to NZ following this morning's defeat.

But if anyone can verify this it would be great. I really hope it's just rumors. They're all pretty much in their mid 20's and have heaps more to offer in NZ.

big harty
07-10-07, 05:31 AM
wow i dont understand y players would head over 2 europe so early in there careers, fairnuff in the twighlight yrs but surely those player would want 2 possible have a shot at another worldcup given what happened yesterday.

nam97
07-10-07, 06:29 AM
Yeah, I hope it's just a 2 year stint like McAlister's. This news just compounds a horrid performance. Really hit me hard.

jawmalawm24
07-10-07, 06:52 AM
I can't verify that but I think our boys deserve to go overseas to earn some real money instead of staying here playing 2-3 times more rugby for 2-3 less pay. Any players that leaves our shores will be sorely missed hope it is just a rumour and doesn't become fact cause we could still do with these players in Nz rugby.

nam97
07-10-07, 06:57 AM
This is why we need a f***ing international season like Football has. This foreign player debacle is a joke. I'm sure France won't like it also with Michalak at the Sharks next year. We really need to sort this out fast. I'd have no quams over it if they were still elgible to play for their own country. Something needs to be done about it.

nik
07-10-07, 07:04 AM
These players are in their prime, they know this is the time when they can cash in the most.

Yes all this news is compounding, the loss, players leaving.

I guess 1 positive thing from all this is that Robbie Deans is most likely going to be the new ABs coach now. I think he is the only coach in NZ who knows about finals footy.

Also with so many players leaving, he will have 4 years to unearth some new talent.

nam97
07-10-07, 07:09 AM
Fair enough. But the main thing I suppose is that the bulk will be back in 2011, and will probably be more familiar with NH rugby. You see, this is what ****** me off, the general trend down here is that we have no idea what goes on up in the NH and this is why we need an international all round season. So we can enjoy Rugby from everywhere.

esoj
07-10-07, 07:12 AM
quite a lot are just going over in 2 year stints to return for the 2011 cup so hopefully if more do go that is what happens. there is some exciting talent in the air nz cup too so some of those guys will proabbly get a chance now in super 14 and beyond before the 2011 cup

SaintsFan_Webby
07-10-07, 07:57 AM
I can't verify that but I think our boys deserve to go overseas to earn some real money instead of staying here playing 2-3 times more rugby for 2-3 less pay.[/b]



Just have to question this - do you really think they would play more rugby staying in New Zealand? The seasons in England and France are very long in comparison to those down south, and have a number of different competitions crammed into them.



Trust me, if they head overseas then they will be earning their pay rise, at least in terms of the quantity of rugby they would play.

YKNGR
07-10-07, 08:00 AM
really sad seeing all our players going to other countries, really amazes me what money can do, even leave your team and your country and the pride of your country, just for money. :huh:

Caledfwlch
07-10-07, 09:41 AM
1) you get payed to do something you love - rugby
2) There's more money there than an average person can earn in a lifetime.



Don't be stupid into thinking that national pride in the jersey is everything. Make no mistake, i think that its ridiculous that so many ABs are heading overseas. But thats life and money for you. Most of them can still come back for the next world cup.

esoj
07-10-07, 10:02 AM
<div class='quotemain'> I can&#39;t verify that but I think our boys deserve to go overseas to earn some real money instead of staying here playing 2-3 times more rugby for 2-3 less pay.[/b]



Just have to question this - do you really think they would play more rugby staying in New Zealand? The seasons in England and France are very long in comparison to those down south, and have a number of different competitions crammed into them.



Trust me, if they head overseas then they will be earning their pay rise, at least in terms of the quantity of rugby they would play.

[/b][/quote]

I don&#39;t know about that. super 14, home tests , tri nations, air nz cup, end of yeat tour all adds up and is certainly a lot of rugby getting close to playing 12 months of the year.

Bullitt
07-10-07, 10:17 AM
In the NH, it&#39;s not uncommon for our players to be playing 40+ games a year. The only reason any Kiwis or Convicts wouldn&#39;t be playing that many is because none of them would have international duty. When you consider 25-30 league games, up to 6-8 cup games and potentally 9 HEC games, then add in the pre-season tours, you&#39;re looking at a f***load more games then down in the non-World cup side of the planet.

jawmalawm24
07-10-07, 10:27 AM
<div class='quotemain'> I can&#39;t verify that but I think our boys deserve to go overseas to earn some real money instead of staying here playing 2-3 times more rugby for 2-3 less pay.[/b]



Just have to question this - do you really think they would play more rugby staying in New Zealand? The seasons in England and France are very long in comparison to those down south, and have a number of different competitions crammed into them.



Trust me, if they head overseas then they will be earning their pay rise, at least in terms of the quantity of rugby they would play.

[/b][/quote]

No question about it look at Umaga he got paid millions for 10 games with a 2nd division team where as if he stayed in Nz he would have to play 5+ full seasons with a 1st division Air New Zealand Cup, Super14 and International team to come close to the same amount.

I think its way too much rugby our players have to play Npc, Super14, Internationals and than some even play for other representative teams so it nearly fills up the whole year.

esoj
07-10-07, 11:03 AM
In the NH, it&#39;s not uncommon for our players to be playing 40+ games a year. The only reason any Kiwis or Convicts wouldn&#39;t be playing that many is because none of them would have international duty. When you consider 25-30 league games, up to 6-8 cup games and potentally 9 HEC games, then add in the pre-season tours, you&#39;re looking at a f***load more games then down in the non-World cup side of the planet. [/b]

I think it would be pretty close actually.

13 super 14 games (15 if team makes it to final) 10 air nz cup games (12 if team makes final) 10+ internationals (3 warm up home tests 6 tri nation games plus end of year tour) ranfurly shield games 3-4(if team is holder games played outside air nz cup) other rep team games/club rugby 5 games. that is certainly a decent amount of rugby in anybody&#39;s books.

Cymro
07-10-07, 12:23 PM
NZ will have to chance their policy on picking players like McAllister

snoopy snoopy dog dog
07-10-07, 12:59 PM
Don&#39;t be stupid into thinking that national pride in the jersey is everything. Make no mistake, i think that its ridiculous that so many ABs are heading overseas. But thats life and money for you. Most of them can still come back for the next world cup.[/b]
The NZRU should be slaughtered over this. How could they let so many of their star players be out of contract at the same time?

In the not too distant future the NZRU are going to have to re-evaluate whether or not overseas players can play for the All Blacks. Hopefully they&#39;ll push for the implementation of a global calender which will result in the rugby playing seasons north and south of the equator being aligned and thus Kiwis playing in Europe being eligible for All Blacks selection.

Their current policy isn&#39;t working and money is winning out. The NZRU will have to cut their cloth and realise, much like the Brazilian Football Association, that they can&#39;t stop their players moving where the money is so they may as well embrace it and work towards a proper solution.

Benji40
24-10-07, 04:17 PM
"Apparently Jerry Collins and Keith Robinson are going to Tolouse next year.
Also, Mils Muliaina and Joe Rokocoko to Stade Francais."

Is it true ???

Dmx#1
24-10-07, 04:43 PM
"Apparently Jerry Collins and Keith Robinson are going to Tolouse next year.
Also, Mils Muliaina and Joe Rokocoko to Stade Francais."

Is it true ??? [/b]

I really hope this not true but if it is, the only positive thing i&#39;ll be able to get out of this is that they&#39;ll be getting the money they deserve.

M Two One
25-10-07, 06:13 AM
A buddy of mine told me that the rumor of Muliaina and Rokocoko to Paris is false as mentioned by a magazine or something. It was speculated after the constant splurge by French sides over the course of the year.

No other information other then that. Collins and Robinson to Toulouse wouldn&#39;t actually surprise me though.

Canadian_Rugger
25-10-07, 03:20 PM
The same thing has been happening in European Ice Hockey with the NHL for the past 25 years. Highly successful professional clubs in Europe such as Sweden&#39;s Vastra Frolunda, Swiss HC Davos, Jokerit, Sparta Praha, Krefeld Penguins, MoDo, Slavia Praha, Dynamo Moscow, etc are having their best players purged by NHL for millions of dollars. Example being Jaromir Jagr who is being paid 10 million a season to play in the NHL. No European clubs can pay him this much because they don&#39;t have the money and in the end national pride gets thrown aside when dollars start flashing. Not even Metallurg Magnitogorsk, a russian superleague team that is most comparable to the NHL as far as European salaries are concerned, could hold onto Evgeni Malkin, who before signing for Pittsburgh, was considered the best player outside the NHL.



Fact is money will always win and if the NZRU can&#39;t compete it is going to have to drastically alter the way it runs the professional game if they are going to hold onto their players. The best possible way to do this is thrugh franchising. The reason NHL teams as well as North American sports team in general have so much money is because they are run by billion dollar franchises and not controlled by their respective unions. If you want to compete with European teams your going to need private investment to come in and make a substantial impact. Also your going to need to work with the IRB with the other national unions to ensure that the international game does not fall prey. The NHL and the IIHF were up until recently on completely different pages but now they are starting to work together and hockey as an international sport is being restored to its former glory.

DonBilly
26-10-07, 04:15 PM
The same thing has been happening in European Ice Hockey with the NHL for the past 25 years. Highly successful professional clubs in Europe such as Sweden&#39;s Vastra Frolunda, Swiss HC Davos, Jokerit, Sparta Praha, Krefeld Penguins, MoDo, Slavia Praha, Dynamo Moscow, etc are having their best players purged by NHL for millions of dollars. Example being Jaromir Jagr who is being paid 10 million a season to play in the NHL. No European clubs can pay him this much because they don&#39;t have the money and in the end national pride gets thrown aside when dollars start flashing. Not even Metallurg Magnitogorsk, a russian superleague team that is most comparable to the NHL as far as European salaries are concerned, could hold onto Evgeni Malkin, who before signing for Pittsburgh, was considered the best player outside the NHL.



Fact is money will always win and if the NZRU can&#39;t compete it is going to have to drastically alter the way it runs the professional game if they are going to hold onto their players. The best possible way to do this is thrugh franchising. The reason NHL teams as well as North American sports team in general have so much money is because they are run by billion dollar franchises and not controlled by their respective unions. If you want to compete with European teams your going to need private investment to come in and make a substantial impact. Also your going to need to work with the IRB with the other national unions to ensure that the international game does not fall prey. The NHL and the IIHF were up until recently on completely different pages but now they are starting to work together and hockey as an international sport is being restored to its former glory.

[/b]



It&#39;s also a question of market size. Western Europe is significantly bigger and richer than NZ. To give an example in the first round of the Top14 Stade Franšais - Clezrmont will be played in the Stade de France (80 000 seats) like one week ago the RWC final! It will be furthermore broadcasted on TV in France and many other countries... How can you compete?

Martin1813
26-10-07, 05:04 PM
Yes but games at Stade de France are exceptions rather than the rule.

There will be only 3 games in the stadium in the regular season and and few one for H-Cup and knockout stage of Top14.

for the rest of the season, Stade franšais will play home games at 12,000 seated Jean-Bouin Stadium...

Ripper
26-10-07, 09:06 PM
<div class='quotemain'> In the NH, it&#39;s not uncommon for our players to be playing 40+ games a year. The only reason any Kiwis or Convicts wouldn&#39;t be playing that many is because none of them would have international duty. When you consider 25-30 league games, up to 6-8 cup games and potentally 9 HEC games, then add in the pre-season tours, you&#39;re looking at a f***load more games then down in the non-World cup side of the planet. [/b]

I think it would be pretty close actually.

13 super 14 games (15 if team makes it to final) 10 air nz cup games (12 if team makes final) 10+ internationals (3 warm up home tests 6 tri nation games plus end of year tour) ranfurly shield games 3-4(if team is holder games played outside air nz cup) other rep team games/club rugby 5 games. that is certainly a decent amount of rugby in anybody&#39;s books. [/b][/quote]



lol, incumbent All Blacks haven&#39;t played more than 6 games (if even that) in a single NPC season since 1998, let alone the pre-season or club rugby.



It&#39;s probably more like 13 Super 14 games, 8 Tests started plus a couple off the bench and possibly a months worth of NPC depending on how much of an extended vacation they take at the end of the Tri Nations.

Gone
08-12-07, 06:52 PM
If rokocoko come in Stade francais..
It&#39;s the party!! =)
:) :)

habib
07-02-08, 10:21 PM
i&#39;m french and i&#39;m very happy to see great player like oliver,keleher in france because its best championship in world

Matpel
21-02-08, 11:28 AM
European market is a lot bigger in terms of consumers

melon
21-02-08, 11:32 AM
European market is a lot bigger in terms of consumers [/b]
I&#39;m cetainly glad that was clarified!

sambãd5
21-02-08, 12:23 PM
your cruel melon, leave the poor bloke alone. i mean, he has to get at least one post in each subforum before we can get angry at his 5 word posts!

FabioCapello
09-04-08, 01:58 PM
Too many NZ players (or from others countries) is not so good for french rugby in general!

@po
23-04-08, 11:29 AM
Too many NZ players (or from others countries) is not so good for french rugby in general!
[/b]

Yep, some position are empty now (for national team) like props...

mabi59
26-04-08, 09:59 AM
Hello
Dan Carter could play next saison in Toulouse Rugby Team, nice news
I hope that it will arrived.
Bye