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O'Rothlain
09-12-07, 03:23 PM
Now that we have a growing number of "Yanks" on the board, I thought it was time to make an honest assesment of the State of Rugby in America. Let's hear you opinions on your club, your rival clubs, which cities have the best rugby, what you think about the USA Eagles and our current development program.

DC
09-12-07, 04:39 PM
Best rugby by far is the Midwest and the West.. Midwest and Western teams annually compete at the High School championships.

The development program is OK. It is good to see they are emphasizing more youth teams, BUT it is very had to get into them (from first hand experience) because the country is just so big and it is hard to get scouted enough to make the team. Once college rolls around it gets easier but from a high school standpoint unless you are on a good team you will most likely not be invited to try out for the youth teams (even if you are a great great player, if you dont play on a good team you will never get scouted)

snoopy snoopy dog dog
09-12-07, 04:47 PM
Now that we have a growing number of "Yanks" on the board, I thought it was time to make an honest assesment of the State of Rugby in America. Let's hear you opinions on your club, your rival clubs, which cities have the best rugby, what you think about the USA Eagles and our current development program.[/b]
I don't know if this is necessarily what you're looking for but I thought this was quite interesting when I read it a couple of days back:


USA Rugby has announced that it plans on holding eight test matches in 2008 and 12 in 2009. The US plans on attending the Churchill Cup throughout June, hosting Irish provincial side Munster and a club from the UK in August, as well as playing three games in November, which have yet to be confirmed. In the works is the expansion of the NA4 to eight representative teams (four from the US and Canada) in 2009 and then adding two teams from Argentina shortly thereafter. There was also talk of establishing a Five Nations America's tournament between the USA, Canada, Chile, Uruguay and Argentina in the near future.

[/b]
Link:Melville optimistic about future (http://www.americanrugbynews.com/artman/publish/national/Melville_optimistic_about_future.shtml)

As we saw in the World Cup, there is talent in the USA if it's given the right coaching and enough game time together. Expanding the international schedule and creating a new higher quality club tournament can only be of benefit.

Steve-o
09-12-07, 05:35 PM
Link:Melville optimistic about future (http://www.americanrugbynews.com/artman/publish/national/Melville_optimistic_about_future.shtml)

As we saw in the World Cup, there is talent in the USA if it's given the right coaching and enough game time together. Expanding the international schedule and creating a new higher quality club tournament can only be of benefit.

[/b]



USA did show some talent in this years' WC but a worrying factor is that something like only 2 of the starting 15 were born in the USA. Would be great to see more home grown talent. Maybe next generation if these plans for USA rugby go through

O'Rothlain
09-12-07, 06:54 PM
The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
I think we're heading in the right direction. Even though a lot of these players are foreign born, they do play their rugby here...this adds greatly to the wealth of knowledge at their home clubs. The Rugby Super League is great, but you can see a difference between the clubs with money and those without. When I lived in San Diego, I got to train some with OMBAC...they have money, great coaching and great facilities. I then played with the Sain Louis Bombers. We had a great coach, but struggled with facilities. OMBAC had international position coaches, while STL had coaches who had grown up in the program. I am not knocking our coaches, they are all great, but they do it for free after their full time jobs.

SaintsFan_Webby
09-12-07, 07:07 PM
The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
[/b]

I still think US sides might struggle against the top amateur sides in the UK to be honest. A lot of them have massive heritage from when rugby was entirely amateur.

The likes of Manchester, Otley, Blackheath, Redruth, Preston Grasshoppers, Fylde, London Scottish, Rosslyn Park, Cardiff, Neath, Pontypridd, Currie, Melrose, Heriots...the list is huge. These were the breeding grounds for many of Britain's top players during the amateur era. I'm not if every single one of those is fully amateur (some may be semi-pro), but I imagine they would be able to put out sides that a country which is only just starting to embrace rugby fully could find the going tough against.

In 15-20 years of course, once more money has been ploughed into the US game, I would expect things to change.

O'Rothlain
09-12-07, 07:27 PM
<div class='quotemain'> The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
[/b]

I still think US sides might struggle against the top amateur sides in the UK to be honest. A lot of them have massive heritage from when rugby was entirely amateur.

The likes of Manchester, Otley, Blackheath, Redruth, Preston Grasshoppers, Fylde, London Scottish, Rosslyn Park, Cardiff, Neath, Pontypridd, Currie, Melrose, Heriots...the list is huge. These were the breeding grounds for many of Britain&#39;s top players during the amateur era. I&#39;m not if every single one of those is fully amateur (some may be semi-pro), but I imagine they would be able to put out sides that a country which is only just starting to embrace rugby fully could find the going tough against.

In 15-20 years of course, once more money has been ploughed into the US game, I would expect things to change.
[/b][/quote]
I said it would be "interesting." It would surely show us where we are. You definitely have heritage on your side. A really old club in the US would be one started in the 1960-70&#39;s...haha. At best a lot of clubs are still drinking socials that engage in rugby.

Bullitt
09-12-07, 07:39 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
[/b]

I still think US sides might struggle against the top amateur sides in the UK to be honest. A lot of them have massive heritage from when rugby was entirely amateur.

The likes of Manchester, Otley, Blackheath, Redruth, Preston Grasshoppers, Fylde, London Scottish, Rosslyn Park, Cardiff, Neath, Pontypridd, Currie, Melrose, Heriots...the list is huge. These were the breeding grounds for many of Britain&#39;s top players during the amateur era. I&#39;m not if every single one of those is fully amateur (some may be semi-pro), but I imagine they would be able to put out sides that a country which is only just starting to embrace rugby fully could find the going tough against.

In 15-20 years of course, once more money has been ploughed into the US game, I would expect things to change.
[/b][/quote]
I said it would be "interesting." It would surely show us where we are. You definitely have heritage on your side. A really old club in the US would be one started in the 1960-70&#39;s...haha. At best a lot of clubs are still drinking socials that engage in rugby.
[/b][/quote]

At best? Those are the best clubs!

shtove
09-12-07, 08:16 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
I said it would be "interesting." It would surely show us where we are. You definitely have heritage on your side. A really old club in the US would be one started in the 1960-70&#39;s...haha. At best a lot of clubs are still drinking socials that engage in rugby.
[/b]

At best? Those are the best clubs!
[/b][/quote]

Yip ... Hic!

Is there much schools rugby in the US? That&#39;s the Irish tradition, and it&#39;s very strong - blows your mind (and your voice, when you&#39;re cheering your team) and nails you for life.

Maybe the best comparison for US rugby is Australia - very weak until the late seventies, and then they became dominant with some of the best players of all time. But the Aussies are incredibly fcukin competitive and love to stuff it to the English/SA/NZ. That kind of national rivalry is a bit below the US, so maybe it wouldn&#39;t fire the public and make them empty their wallets.

I guess the US needs a bogey man they can compete against year in, year out. Now, who would that be? Or should US rugby give up on the Eagles and go with regions, like the MidWest/New England/Pacific states? Or even individual states?

In rugby, Ireland uses a provincial system (4) supported by tiny clubs - but that feeds upward in to a national team. In All Ireland competitions in gaelic games there is no national team (leaving the Croke Park punch ups with the Aussies aside) and the system is based on the counties (32) supported by tiny clubs. Lots of passion there.

Anyway - Merry Christmas, a chara!

Brodizzle
09-12-07, 10:57 PM
I guess the US needs a bogey man they can compete against year in, year out. Now, who would that be?
[/b]
Firepower (the Forces sponsor) have opened up a rugby academy in Russia, there&#39;s your bogey man for you...

scuubasteve
09-12-07, 11:01 PM
All looks promising for the future!

I still feel they should tote the 7&#39;s cart a little more.

Watching the US team compete very well over the weekend (in the George leg of the IRB 7&#39;s) along with nations like Kenya (who the US lost 2 in the plate final!) shows that it doesn&#39;t take as much money or time for smaller nations to foot it with the big guys in this version of the game.

Rugby 7&#39;s encompasses most of what is good about the 15man version. It is much faster and simpler than the full version making it the perfect tool to penetrate the market and gain awareness for the rugby &#39;brand&#39;. Spreading the word on the game and increasing participation in some form is the simple way to boost US rugby fortunes.

I think if they pushed 7&#39;s harder then the US game could grow faster.

This is currently the easiest way for US based players to compete professionally against other world class professional players.

Guys like Todd Clever and 19 year old Thretton Palamo look to be very impressive athletes who will benefit both physically and mentally from taking part in the 7&#39;s tournament, more so than if they were to play club rugby. Giving more kids a taste for the game would be easier if served on a more simplistic platform.

On a side note, it&#39;s great (generally and from a US rugby growth perspective) to see the flying winger Takudza Ngwenya get a pro contract. He&#39;s now signed with French Top14 side Biarritz (otherwise he was to tour with the 7&#39;s team)

O'Rothlain
09-12-07, 11:07 PM
No...Russia is so 1980 (unfortunately).
The IRB need to form some sort of Al Quada (sp) Rugby Club.
http://www.september11news.com/Oct7OsamahTV4.jpg
Now, we&#39;ll have a reason to boost rugby!!!

shtove
09-12-07, 11:28 PM
No...Russia is so 1980 (unfortunately).
The IRB need to form some sort of Al Quada (sp) Rugby Club.
http://www.september11news.com/Oct7OsamahTV4.jpg
Now, we&#39;ll have a reason to boost rugby!!!
[/b]



But wouldn&#39;t George W just declare victory - whatever the result - and then destroy all video evidence?

O'Rothlain
09-12-07, 11:31 PM
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1085860.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A64B3A2A6EA90B3C62 9930FDCFC4C15FBB
Poor Video Referee is going to get whacked.

danroadking
20-12-07, 05:29 PM
We just need more support… :rahh:

dundeesmiffy
20-12-07, 06:12 PM
i was wondering if rugby was big in Boston?
seeing as it has a large scottish and irish contingent?

Prestwick
20-12-07, 07:13 PM
All looks promising for the future!

I still feel they should tote the 7&#39;s cart a little more.

Watching the US team compete very well over the weekend (in the George leg of the IRB 7&#39;s) along with nations like Kenya (who the US lost 2 in the plate final!) shows that it doesn&#39;t take as much money or time for smaller nations to foot it with the big guys in this version of the game.

Rugby 7&#39;s encompasses most of what is good about the 15man version. It is much faster and simpler than the full version making it the perfect tool to penetrate the market and gain awareness for the rugby &#39;brand&#39;. Spreading the word on the game and increasing participation in some form is the simple way to boost US rugby fortunes.

I think if they pushed 7&#39;s harder then the US game could grow faster.

This is currently the easiest way for US based players to compete professionally against other world class professional players.

Guys like Todd Clever and 19 year old Thretton Palamo look to be very impressive athletes who will benefit both physically and mentally from taking part in the 7&#39;s tournament, more so than if they were to play club rugby. Giving more kids a taste for the game would be easier if served on a more simplistic platform.

On a side note, it&#39;s great (generally and from a US rugby growth perspective) to see the flying winger Takudza Ngwenya get a pro contract. He&#39;s now signed with French Top14 side Biarritz (otherwise he was to tour with the 7&#39;s team) [/b]

I agree, the USA have recruited wisely in terms of administrators with guys like Nigel Melville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Melville) and other guys like the bloke who negotiated the Adidas deal for New Zealand.

And look on the bright side, the USA are still olympic champs...but kind of like how Kurt Angle is still "olympic champ" of Wrestling..

Caledfwlch
21-12-07, 06:43 AM
The USA 7s team came down last month for the SCC 7s. Nothing special just mundane rugby. That didnt work.

Hamster
21-12-07, 10:01 AM
Got potential, I reckon Canada has more potential. Would be easier to market and target players there I reckon. Improving slighty, but they&#39;ll never beat the NFL market... Hard to talk about it, just they wont be a powerhouse team for a long time. Very long time lol. Besides, if NFL didnt exist just imagine what the Yanks would have made of rugby if they kept it lol.

Steve-o
21-12-07, 10:48 AM
I disagree. USA rugby has come along way since the beginning of the professional era. And they&#39;ve had the better of thier neighbours, Canada, in recent years. The sheer size of the US makes them high up on my future potential list. But like you said, it&#39;ll take awhile. Americans need to buy an atlas and see that there&#39;s a world outside thier &#39;world&#39;.

And about that creating a rivalry with another nation thing, I think England or Argentina will be their rivals one day. BTW which country do the US have the longest rugby history with?

Caledfwlch
21-12-07, 12:50 PM
Not a very long way. Just halfway. They&#39;re still running on a semi-pro league, aren&#39;t they?



If the Yanks had stuck to rugby, the North American championship would be called the World Series/Championship :P And they&#39;d turn it into a MASSIVE MASSIVE marketing vehicle. Like in 1984 when thy launched the first Apple, with that annoying &#39;empowering&#39; advert that had a woman smashing the &#39;Big Brother&#39;

TyphoonsRugby
21-12-07, 01:49 PM
Are there any pro clubs in the US? I&#39;d enjoy moving there to play for a season or two.

Prestwick
21-12-07, 11:20 PM
Are there any pro clubs in the US? I&#39;d enjoy moving there to play for a season or two. [/b]

As explained earlier in this thread, there is an experimental four team league called North America 4. This is going to be expanded to 8 teams before being franchised out to make the league fully professional.

http://wiki.otakubooty.com/images/a/a5/Readthread.jpg

Caledfwlch
22-12-07, 06:57 AM
Hmm. In that case they should have trialled a professional league with the existing semi pro league instead. Isn&#39;t it better to build on some foundation rather than none?

HKING
22-12-07, 05:24 PM
Objective is the development of school boy and girl rugby here in the states. As we begin to try to get rugby recognised buy our sporting organizations. That is our sates individual Athletic Associations governing what sports are played at high school and middle school levels then the change could be massive.

Right now we have an obundance of potenial rugby athletes that have been disenfranchised over our popular sports thinking their going to become the next LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavs. The sad fact that the numbers just do not add up. We produce from colleges and other institutions numbers of athlete with nothing elese to do except become bleacher bums or arm chair quarter backs. Instead we should look at rugby as something for all individuals to at least give it a go.

Major problem rugby according to most parents that I have delt with O MY GOSH MY SON IS GOING TO DIE!!!

The sad fact is once the parents see how much fun and not so dangerous rugby is they LOVE IT!

Anyway I have coached at the college level Div I in the USA at Central Michigan and then took a step back for 2 years and now got a program going for the youth in our community. Again funding being the hardest issue. I can not use any of the schools busses where I work, NOT a School sponsored activity. So our high school boy&#39;s budget is 5,000 dollars this year and all my game are over 2 hours of drive time plus renting vans to transport because this is the most selfish generation of parents I have ever met JUST my opinnion.

Well I will end by saying this country is on the verge of breaking out and when it dose World look out.
You know what Yamamoto said in WWII all we did was awaken a sleeping giant :D !

Coach King

Prestwick
22-12-07, 05:43 PM
Hmm. In that case they should have trialled a professional league with the existing semi pro league instead. Isn&#39;t it better to build on some foundation rather than none? [/b]

Very true but this league is meant to eventually be made up of teams from across North America. Canada run their own league so it was felt that with iRB money an attempt should be made to see how a cross-border league would work.

My view? They should advance towards a full 14 team franchised competition with all haste as long as they can get businessmen with the staying power and acumen to make it work.

HKING
22-12-07, 09:15 PM
Prestwick I agree it needs to be more then just 8 and it should be put into place as fast as possible so that the next 4 years we might advance rugby here even more.



King

Prestwick
22-12-07, 11:05 PM
The good thing is that both the Yanks and the Canadians know how best to promote and build a sports franchise. The thing is though I&#39;m thinking is the view of USA Rugby and Nigel Melville going along the lines of maximum autonomy for the clubs/franchises if and when they appear post NA4 or are they wanting more control al la the SRU and SANZAR?

My gut feeling that, as befits the culture of North America, that USA Rugby would rather let these guys run free and grow themselves and then happily skim off the players that are developed through a more professional system.

shtove
23-12-07, 12:32 AM
Objective is the development of school boy and girl rugby here in the states. As we begin to try to get rugby recognised buy our sporting organizations. That is our sates individual Athletic Associations governing what sports are played at high school and middle school levels then the change could be massive.

Right now we have an obundance of potenial rugby athletes that have been disenfranchised over our popular sports thinking their going to become the next LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavs. The sad fact that the numbers just do not add up. We produce from colleges and other institutions numbers of athlete with nothing elese to do except become bleacher bums or arm chair quarter backs. Instead we should look at rugby as something for all individuals to at least give it a go. [/b]

Abundance of athletes - I think that&#39;s what Melville focused on when he took up the job. But you&#39;ll still get hammered by Ireland :bleh!:

Schools rugby in Ireland has a bigish following - Leinster schools cup finals (U-18) regularly get crowds of 25,000 in Dublin. If you hook people at that stage, they&#39;ll be lifelong supporters - rugby has that quality.

Crowd chants and songs were big for us, but I guess college football in the US has the same culture. Mind you, our cheerleaders were ugly guys with megaphones who used to threaten us with a beating if we didn&#39;t sing ourselves hoarse!

DC
23-12-07, 12:33 AM
<div class='quotemain'> Are there any pro clubs in the US? I&#39;d enjoy moving there to play for a season or two. [/b]

As explained earlier in this thread, there is an experimental four team league called North America 4. This is going to be expanded to 8 teams before being franchised out to make the league fully professional.

http://wiki.otakubooty.com/images/a/a5/Readthread.jpg
[/b][/quote]

and even then the NA4 squads are not neccessarily clubs but rather provincial/divisional squads made of the best players in each half of canada and the usa.

Prestwick
23-12-07, 11:46 AM
True but thats the embryonic stage of a professional league. Next they&#39;ll be wanting to find permenant places to base the teams on and expand the number of teams to six and then finally eight find people to franchise them to.

In the case of Canada, having provincial teams might be better than simply basing them out of cities so this is pretty good practice to what should develop into a North American League.

Caledfwlch
23-12-07, 12:45 PM
So what happens to the teams in the AmberBock Super League? The old names like Belmont Shore, OMBAC etc. Are they going to be phased out, ya think?



Man this is rich, but not smooth.

HKING
23-12-07, 01:14 PM
I think that the AmerBock Super League needs to be expanded and they need to find a partner to help sponsor the development.

Objective is not not reduce, but to expand the game of rugby. The one major issue is knowledge and understanding of the game here in the USA most people have a distorted picture of the game.

The second major issue is the pure size of this country. USA Rugby had a youth conference on the game in Tenn. last year which I participated in and could afford that trip. Then this year they had another one in San Diego, Ca. No way in heck I would be able to make that trip to give my input as a youth coach.

The State Based Organizations that control sports played at schools dictates the spread or non-spread of rugby here. In the state that I live in we need to push at the NCHAA http://www.nchsaa.org/index.pl . Here is where rugby needs to be and then NFHS http://www.nfhs.org/ these two organization gorvern the spread of rugby in states and in my state in particular. USA Rugby has gone to the conference for NFHS, I think they should approach each state high school association, this I think would have a better effect on the spread of the game at the national level. Each state should develop a team of coordinators to develop a line on attack and GO FOR IT :cheers: .

Being a PE teacher at the middle school level in NC, I see their are more students not involved in sport today then could be. Also the inactivity of our kids at all levels needs to change, one reason why I started a rugby team in my neck of the woods. The past 2 years has been a war with trying to educate people about the game an grow our club.

I think as a Nation we could be doing much better, but some times I feel that the captains at the helm are not pushing hard enough.

Just MHO.

Coach King
Hurricanes Youth RFC, Raeford, North Carolina

Canadian_Rugby_Guy
23-12-07, 09:13 PM
Wrong Canada is in a retarded situation. Nigel Melville proverbially rapes Graham Brown (canada ceo) up the ass in terms of putting a face on their respective country&#39;s rugby programs internationally. The USA is starting to show more initiative, and even though Canada&#39;s thrashed the US in the last few encounters, has more professionals and Canada East and West are showing overall better in the NA4, it could all change very rapidly due to the fact that the gentlemen who head Rugby Canada are hair-brained idiots with no clear procedure for selecting a new coach and are bickering old women who can&#39;t see past the tips of their noses when it comes to developing the sport. Our dominance won&#39;t last until this board either picks up the pace or gets the f*** out and lets someone else take charge.

cmbnd10
20-01-08, 07:28 AM
When will we find out what teams are added to NA4?

Canadian_Rugger
21-01-08, 05:30 AM
Canada has plenty of quality rugby players... and the skill of players here is generally higher then that of the players in the states... this is due too high school rugby being immensely popular in Canada and most clubs now having an established junior program... The problem in Canada lies in the way the game is administered. In rugby many people still view rugby as more of a social activity then an actual sport.... people especially the old guard do not want to let go of the amateur past and this has hindered our development...



I played in a tournament against a few american teams and American rugby is very forward oriented... they do not play with a lot of flair... mostly a lot of pick and gos, mauls, and crash ball... the avg canadian&#39;s has better basics then the avg american rugby player.. and whoever said the American team has had the better of Canada the past few years ehm u might wanna check that out. Our juniors regularly thrash the American juniors... and our senior men have put over 50 points on the Americans the past few times we have played them.

O'Rothlain
21-01-08, 02:46 PM
Canada has plenty of quality rugby players... and the skill of players here is generally higher then that of the players in the states... this is due too high school rugby being immensely popular in Canada and most clubs now having an established junior program... The problem in Canada lies in the way the game is administered. In rugby many people still view rugby as more of a social activity then an actual sport.... people especially the old guard do not want to let go of the amateur past and this has hindered our development...



I played in a tournament against a few american teams and American rugby is very forward oriented... they do not play with a lot of flair... mostly a lot of pick and gos, mauls, and crash ball... the avg canadian&#39;s has better basics then the avg american rugby player.. and whoever said the American team has had the better of Canada the past few years ehm u might wanna check that out. Our juniors regularly thrash the American juniors... and our senior men have put over 50 points on the Americans the past few times we have played them.

[/b]
I agree with you...American Rugby is Forward Oriented. I try to coach differently, but when on the field, even I always gravitate back to a forwards game. We ran banger after banger off of the ruck. I felt a bit sorry for the backs who I noticed were just standing waiting while the forwards were beating the **** out of eachother.

thegoods14
31-01-08, 03:13 AM
I think a big problem with rugby in the U.S. is how little media attention it gets. During the world cup, on Sportscenter they showed like a 25 second clip of the France v. New Zealand game. If they televise it more between March and August it will give all the rednecks a full contact sport to watch during American football&#39;s off season.

melon
31-01-08, 03:47 AM
I think a big problem with rugby in the U.S. is how little media attention it gets. During the world cup, on Sportscenter they showed like a 25 second clip of the France v. New Zealand game. If they televise it more between March and August it will give all the rednecks a full contact sport to watch during American football&#39;s off season. [/b]
Well there we go. That&#39;s the problem. You say if they televise it, it will give the rednecks a full contact sport to watch during the off season. That attitutude will get this great game of ours nowhere in the USA.

Sure, we need to start off small to gain the initial exposure which would then attract more people and as a result a new target audience, but having the attitude that it will only appeal to rednecks in the off season of American Football will get rugby no where.

I can see where you&#39;re coming from and what you do say is unfortunately true. Thats where it will probably have to start to gain a larger audience.

But then again, there is college/university over in the USA. I seriously think thats where the key is for the growth of Rugby.

redunderthebed
31-01-08, 07:56 AM
. Americans need to buy an atlas and see that there&#39;s a world outside thier &#39;world&#39;.
[/b]

That is the problem with any sport coming into America and trying to get a foothold in the market.You watch ESPN sportscenter there is whole world of sports going on but you wouldnt know about it its all about Baseball,Gridiron,Ice Hockey and Basketball only on a few occasions is sports events outside america are mentioned.

RC
31-01-08, 11:42 AM
Yeha, there are problems in american rugby, but from what i&#39;ve seen in just the past few years, there are some real positives to be had as well.
You&#39;ve had a few of your players move to Europe (Hercus, Ngwenya etc.) and they&#39;ve been given a chance to play very high quality rugby consistently. To even experience HEC rugby for one season as a pro must do you a world of good.
But, looking more to a fundemental point of view, i am seeing so many more american teams touring wales these days.
I mean, Canada (ever since i can remember as a school boy) has always sent teams of all ages here to play, but in the past 2 or 3 years i&#39;ve seen a meteoric rise of kids from high school and i&#39;ve had plenty of encounters with male and female rugby tours from universities as well.

Maybe what america needs is an icon, a rugby hero.

Nate, where are you?

Brodizzle
31-01-08, 12:44 PM
Get Jonah playing in the US and there&#39;s your icon, I&#39;m sure even the yanks know him...

RC
31-01-08, 01:54 PM
Yeah, I mean it sounds like a stupid idea, but how much Croatia enjoy tennis before Ivanisevic came through Wimbledon as a wildcard and won it in a storming final.
If America had a person they could relate to like that (e.g. Someone skinning Habana and others on a regular basis) then i&#39;m sure the news would quickly be picking up on this american protege, thus hopefully encouraging an interest in the country.

O'Rothlain
31-01-08, 03:59 PM
I&#39;m right here, and I&#39;m so ready to be that Icon.

Ha.

Yeah, problem with American Rugby is few players here know of international rugby. You can&#39;t really talk teams, or competitions, let alone players. Oh, everyone knows about the Haka, but seriously, it&#39;s still hard to have a real conversation about international rugby. The sport itself is growing, but I feel it&#39;s a bit out of touch with the rest of the rugby community. It&#39;s a bit isolated. Most teams adopt their foreign coach or players favourite teams or whatever, but can&#39;t really tell you anything other than "Oh, South Africa are the best rugby team ever, wouldn&#39;t you say?" And, no offense, I&#39;m like "No." Then they reply with "that&#39;s not what so and so said" and I have to be all like, well why don&#39;t you go look it up and read. Then they looked all shocked and confused as if rugby information were still to be passed down by oral tradition as if we are stuck in 250BC.

We&#39;re a bit out of touch here. "Jonah Lo-who? " That&#39;s what you&#39;d most likely get.

RC
31-01-08, 05:22 PM
I&#39;ll sort that out!
Come summer time, i&#39;ll teach all of you!!!
Mwahaha...ahem.


Ooh, there should be an advert advertising magners league games on Setanta sport...you know, a time when there will be lots of people watching. It doesn&#39;t cost much to have an advert on during the superbowl, does it?

melon
31-01-08, 10:12 PM
I&#39;ll sort that out!
Come summer time, i&#39;ll teach all of you!!!
Mwahaha...ahem.


Ooh, there should be an advert advertising magners league games on Setanta sport...you know, a time when there will be lots of people watching. It doesn&#39;t cost much to have an advert on during the superbowl, does it?
[/b]
Nah, only US$2.4 Million for a 30 second slot. Works out at 80 grand a second. Peanuts.

thegoods14
31-01-08, 10:27 PM
Yeah, I mean it sounds like a stupid idea, but how much Croatia enjoy tennis before Ivanisevic came through Wimbledon as a wildcard and won it in a storming final.
If America had a person they could relate to like that (e.g. Someone skinning Habana and others on a regular basis) then i&#39;m sure the news would quickly be picking up on this american protege, thus hopefully encouraging an interest in the country.
[/b]

I agree with that. If the U.S. team won some high profile games against big teams, it would at least make the papers. Look at it this way, before Lance Armstronag started to win all of those Tours, all the TV time it got was a few hours on Saturday afternoon. Now, every stage is televised and shown twice sometimes three times a day. Also, someone mentioned Setanta sports. Im pretty sure that it is a station that you have to buy extra like HBO. So some people wouldn&#39;t have access to it to watch the Intl. rugby games.

DR749
15-02-08, 04:41 PM
I have been involved on a limited basis in rugby in the Midwest of the US. My college was in Div I (Palmer) and I currently help out as a trainer/team doctor (chiro) and physio for a Div III team in the midwest (the Fox Cities Gargoyles). I would love to work with a DI team in the UK, it would be my goal. Rugby seems pretty strong here, we have youth, women and high school teams that are already developed. But it seems to be stagnent.



I would love to see a pro series develop, but I look at the pro Lacrosse league, or even the pro soccer league and it still a very niche market. A summer time sport like rugby would be great, but we also had the XFL, an "extreme" version of the NFL that failed after one year, run by one of the biggest marketing firms in the way of the WWE, the wrestling group.



Someone asked about rugby on the east coast, due to the Scottish and Irish immigrents. I know I was checking out the Seacoat rugby team in New Hampshire when I planned to move out that way for a chiropractic practice. That seemed to be a pretty big organization.



Logistics will always be an issue. We would have to set up regional divisions first and play more locally, with maybe the top teams from each division then traveling cross country for some sort of playoff. If we go full-on national right off the bat, the travel I feel would be a big hurdle. What is nice about rugby that you dont see with other professional stick and ball sports in the US is sponsorship. If we get the major sponsors on board, it would make things much more easy.



Doc

DR749
15-02-08, 05:39 PM
I forgot to mention that pro rugby is getting more attention here in the states. The Munster v Eagles game appeared to be quite popular and I had heard talks that the All Blacks and England were planning a game here. The World Cup games were available on the Vs cable network along with Setanta. So, public awareness of the sport is at least there, something to grow with.

RC
22-02-08, 12:12 AM
...and I had heard talks that the All Blacks and England were planning a game here. [/b]

Now that is actually a very good idea.
If you&#39;re looking for a way to try and get a sport integrated into a country that doesn&#39;t fully accept it, you&#39;ve got to promote it with some teams who are already established in the sport and can put on a good display.
I mean, look at what the NFL have done in Britain. They played in Wembley (was it the giants and dolphins? Can&#39;t quite remember...) and it totally sold out. They have already scheduled another game for next season in wembley and even Cardiff is bidding for a game the season after.
Rugby League has done the same thing by bringing a weekend of games to wales. Where the sport should be big, but it just hasn&#39;t kicked off yet.

So whoever had the idea of bringing England and the All Blacks to play there should stick to this plan and not only that, but then try and get the bigger teams (like new zealand etc.) to play the eagles on a regular basis.
The last top 10 team i can remember going out to USA to play against te Eagles was Wales a few years back in the summer, and not even then did they send out a full team.
This is not how rugby should be treated in America. The America vs Wales game was not hugely popular and it goes to show - either go all in or not at all.
Would wembley have sold out if it was 2 teams from NFL Europe playing?
Hardly.

Flyin Ryan
13-03-08, 01:28 AM
^ You can get people to show up for the circus, that&#39;s not the hard part. It&#39;s getting people to care about where the circus came from or where it goes to next that&#39;s the hard part.

I think people need to sit down and figure out what the goal is. If the goal is to create a winning World Cup side, we can buy off enough good young players to immigrate and create a killer side alongside the few players we develop in the NA4/8 competition that is played in front of 14 spectators. But that doesn&#39;t necessarily mean anyone here would care, and I don&#39;t think anyone in the rugby universe really wants a world champion in the sport whose populace couldn&#39;t give f*** all about it. Heck, I&#39;d love to play the sport just for fun but the closest club to me is 60 miles away and it&#39;s not like I live in the sticks either.

If the goal is to grow the sport, do it through the colleges, get on smaller TV coverage, get Sevens in the Olympics cause people will then watch it and go "wow, this sport is a lot like football but is very free-flowing" as their introduction to the game. There&#39;s no silver bullet. Soccer thought after the 1994 World Cup that they could create a pro soccer league and people will flock to it with little to no effort. There was a novelty factor but after that wore off the league had significant growing pains and became a punchline to jokes, and I don&#39;t think any American on this board would state rugby is anywhere close to soccer&#39;s stature in this country currently.

Get regular rugby on TV and the sport will receive a novelty interest from watchers. For this to happen, Setanta is going to have to give up their PPV money, and I&#39;m not holding my breath. NA4: even if you make it NA8, the tournament is nothing more than a welfare check unless there&#39;s TV coverage and an audience develops that follows it.

O'Rothlain
13-03-08, 06:31 PM
Rugby in America is on course. It&#39;s not going to take off and be mainstream anytime soon. I honestly believe we need to focus on the task at hand and quit starring off so far into the future wishing it were today.
We must improve rugby on the grass root level. USA Rugby would be wise to offer coaching clinics, ect for current coaches. Let&#39;s improve our game, raise awareness and we&#39;ll see great results. The sheer number of people that know a little about rugby today, compared to 10 years ago when I started is amazing enough to me. We are a growing sport and people are starting to take notice. We just have to give it time and all improve our game, our techniques and our strategies.

Busko
15-03-08, 06:57 PM
I think the problem with rugby in the US is pretty much the same problem football (or as they for mysterious reasons call it Soccer) was facing.

After the football world cup something started moving for it, a new tournament has been held and after ten years of very intelligent development it&#39;s starting to be profitable (e.g. it&#39;s not losing millions monthly and people are suddendly starting to populate the stadiums).

And i think american rugby enthusiasts can be pretty optmistic, all is needed is a serious management and a "on the game" approach, organizing from the children playin&#39; after school to the national championship.

jeffb
15-03-08, 10:52 PM
Would Americans watch Rugby League. Would that not appeal more to the Amercan public, more than Union??



Jeff

fcukernaut
16-03-08, 02:16 AM
The last top 10 team i can remember going out to USA to play against te Eagles was Wales a few years back in the summer, and not even then did they send out a full team.[/b]

It&#39;s not quite to your point but the best team to come to north america outside the All Blacks in the early 1900&#39;s had to be the Maori in 2003. It was a stacked team with guys like Carl Haymen, Greg Feek, Christian Cullen, Ron Cribb, Rico Gear and Troy Flavell. Just thought I&#39;d throw that tidbit out there. Mind you they only played Canadian teams.

snoopy snoopy dog dog
20-03-08, 07:09 PM
It looks as though the Eagles have found their new head coach:

Former Wales caretaker coach Scott Johnson is set to take charge of the United States team.

BBC Wales understands his appointment will be confirmed this weekend, a fortnight after he turned down a chance to join the Cardiff Blues.

The Australian has been offered the head coach&#39;s role of the American Eagles by USA Rugby chief executive Nigel Melville.

[/b]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_unio...lsh/7307336.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7307336.stm)

He&#39;ll be a high calibre appointment who&#39;ll bring the Eagles skill levels way up.

excitation
24-04-08, 01:56 AM
I disagree. USA rugby has come along way since the beginning of the professional era. And they&#39;ve had the better of thier neighbours, Canada, in recent years. The sheer size of the US makes them high up on my future potential list. But like you said, it&#39;ll take awhile. Americans need to buy an atlas and see that there&#39;s a world outside thier &#39;world&#39;.

And about that creating a rivalry with another nation thing, I think England or Argentina will be their rivals one day. BTW which country do the US have the longest rugby history with?
[/b]


Better then the Canadians?

You are joking right? the qualifier for the last world cup Canada stomped the US by 50 points... actually Canada has beaten the US by a 90 point spread the last two international tests.

University of British Columbia just beat the #1 ranked US college team UC Berkley, with basically has 15 times the student population and is the best US team by far. So&#39; you&#39; better check you stats and read up as you said the US should do.

O'Rothlain
24-04-08, 05:39 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
I disagree. USA rugby has come along way since the beginning of the professional era. And they&#39;ve had the better of thier neighbours, Canada, in recent years. The sheer size of the US makes them high up on my future potential list. But like you said, it&#39;ll take awhile. Americans need to buy an atlas and see that there&#39;s a world outside thier &#39;world&#39;.

And about that creating a rivalry with another nation thing, I think England or Argentina will be their rivals one day. BTW which country do the US have the longest rugby history with?
[/b]


Better then the Canadians?

You are joking right? the qualifier for the last world cup Canada stomped the US by 50 points... actually Canada has beaten the US by a 90 point spread the last two international tests.

University of British Columbia just beat the #1 ranked US college team UC Berkley, with basically has 15 times the student population and is the best US team by far. So&#39; you&#39; better check you stats and read up as you said the US should do.
[/b][/quote]
I always forget they have a country up there until they beat us in rugby...

USA_Rugby
24-04-08, 09:26 AM
http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/canada-am...t-tshirt-sm.jpg (http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/canada-americas-hat-tshirt-sm.jpg)


lol

RC
24-04-08, 09:34 AM
Woah, if the comments are true, that America really have contracted Scott Johnson to be their national coach then they really are starting to take these things a little more seriously.
It&#39;s great to see they are throwing a bit more money at the game, because America are surely a team that has to be recognised soon.

Wales will be touring America in the summer of &#39;09, i wonder if gatland will stick to the same "we&#39;re only sending 1st teams on tour" attitude, but I&#39;m sure Scott will relish the opportunity to play against Wales.

Macsen
24-04-08, 11:20 AM
Wales will be touring America in the summer of &#39;09, i wonder if gatland will stick to the same "we&#39;re only sending 1st teams on tour" attitude[/b]Will he have a 1st team to send with so many of them in the Lions? :P

RC
24-04-08, 11:28 AM
Ahh, very good point.
The Lions tour totally slipped my mind.
Lol.

Project Janus
14-05-08, 08:24 PM
Hey all! I&#39;m a new member here. I&#39;ve got about three seasons of rugby under my belt so far. I&#39;m 17 and a highschool player. Our side took the New England championship this year and I saw a lot of teams this year at the tournament and I have to say that there are a lot of incredible athletes coming out of New England. Even from just three years ago there has been a huge growth in the number of teams joining NERFU. This is all U-19 so they have plenty of times to grow into potential national team candidates. Hell, one of the kids on my side last year was invited to attend the U-19 national team camp during his first year of play.

Rugby is growing in leaps and bounds across America and I bet we&#39;ll be a force to be reckoned with within the next 10 years.

Daray236
19-05-08, 10:25 PM
I can tell rugby is growing here because we are starting to get more youth teams. It might be just be because I live in the Washington D.C. area, but it&#39;s getting more attention.

On a related note, it&#39;s getting more media attention as well. Last Friday, after months of diligently searching for any rugby related T.V. programs, I found an hour program with the highlights of the "USA Rugby College Play-Offs The Super Sixteen" on ESPN University, and I just found out that they will be airing the full match of the championship final on Thursday, even though they are airing it at 10 PM (East Coast Time). :lazy:
Thank god for DVR.

Justink
19-05-08, 10:51 PM
I think Rugby is certainly growing, and will continue to grow in the US. Here in NC, a good number of clubs are established, and more people are starting to play. I think there are two things that need to be done to increase Rugby&#39;s popularity in the US: First, parents of youth players need to be shown that their son won&#39;t get killed if they play. 2. More media coverage is needed, and on channels that the average person gets, that way more people will be intrigues by the sport and they won&#39;t have to spend the researching about it like I did. :D I think that Rugby will certainly become pretty popular in the next 10 to 15 years.

aubie95
04-09-08, 01:13 AM
Huge move for exposure in the U. S. of A.

Bledisloe Cup in the Mile High City?

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/2039873


Although I still contend that the IRB and the USRFU should get their act together and air the 6 nations, Tri-Nations, and Super 14 at a minimum on ESPN or Fox Sports, hell even Versus with the NHL. What ridiculous logic is held that putting a sport on pay-per-view will gain new fans?? Idiotic. It&#39;s the definition of "short term thinking".

Prestwick
04-09-08, 01:17 AM
Er...Denver? :blink:

Thats like the least known city outside of the United States, coming up just behind Anchorage and whatever state capital is in North Dakota...

aubie95
04-09-08, 01:22 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Sep 3 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=345611')</div>
Er...Denver? :blink:

Thats like the least known city outside of the United States, coming up just behind Anchorage and whatever state capital is in North Dakota...[/b]


Agree. It wouldn&#39;t be my first choice either, but I guess it&#39;s more about exposing world class rugby to an American crowd than showcasing an American city. Denver does have a fairly decent Rugby community, but no where near as interesting as the San Francisco Bay area or the Northeastern corridor.

Prestwick
04-09-08, 03:11 AM
Well, got to start from somewhere I guess.

nam97
04-09-08, 03:15 AM
There was a story floating around a while back where the All Blacks were gonna play Ireland in the States. Think they said something about Giants Stadium in New York, that would be epic.

DonBilly
04-09-08, 07:45 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wairarapa_cullen @ Sep 4 2008, 05:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=345629')</div>
There was a story floating around a while back where the All Blacks were gonna play Ireland in the States. Think they said something about Giants Stadium in New York, that would be epic.[/b]

I think this project has been cancelled and was supposed to be organised in Boston.

RC
25-10-08, 11:49 PM
A game in the Giants Stadium would have been in a good place, good transport there from the city and I think it&#39;s capacity is around 80,000.
But to take the game to Boston would be far more relevant in regards to the whole Irish contingency.


Does anyone happen to know where Wales will be playing against the Eagles next summer?
I&#39;d love to know if it&#39;s on the (north) east coast - i&#39;d definitely try to make that game.

frntline
23-11-08, 09:32 AM
thought i mite just put a few words in. USA is actually doing alot with youth programs and even more in college sides and I think with Scott Johnson as coach it will help alot.

And speaking on the youth behalf its doing really well. My Illinois select side toured England and Wales this past summer and went 2-2 and only lost the first game by a conversion. So I&#39;d say we were arnt doing that bad with the youth programs.

Oh and RC we played 2 sides around Swansea Porthcrawl and Gorseinon. Loved Wales so much plan on moving back in 2 years met some amazing people there to.

QLD
23-11-08, 09:41 AM
An international match between two full strength teams would be great for the rugby community in the US as long as:

It&#39;s played under the ELVS so the US public dont have to sit through a penalty ****fest.
Its not going to be a farce like the 1987 RL state of origin game.

frntline
23-11-08, 10:12 AM
yeah it would be great cause whenever someone comes to plan our national side they never bring the full starting side not even munster : ( but the Bledisloe Cup is always a chance :D

NHH
18-03-09, 04:16 PM
Well there is a Wales vs Eagles game on June 6th this year (following a Wales vs Canada match on May 30th which I can hopefully get to see). They&#39;re playing at Toyota Park in Illinois which can seat around 20 000 people. Not sure how big rugby is in Illinois but hopefully the game helps the sport grow there. Hopefully it does the same in Southern Ontario too when they play Canada. Rugby is already growing here but it still needs quite a bit of work. Both Jr and Sr teams went undefeated all season last year and there is already 40+ juniors that want to play but for some reason there is only 14 Srs on the roster right now and nobody else seems to want to play.
My local club (North Halton Highlanders) are travelling to Ireland in august. It will be interesting to see how they fair against Irish teams.

frntline
20-03-09, 02:18 AM
yeah its pretty big but for the munster game and the Churchill cup we only got like 10,000 - 12,000 in attendance.

Wizard From Oz
20-03-09, 04:17 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Sep 3 2008, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=345611')</div>
Er...Denver? :blink:

Thats like the least known city outside of the United States, coming up just behind Anchorage and whatever state capital is in North Dakota...[/b]

Wow does that mean Topeka beat three cities home in the survey.........woooooooo hooooooo things are looking up :P

M Two One
22-04-09, 07:11 PM
Tra la la la la ..

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8449/usarugby.png

Charles
17-01-11, 10:17 AM
This thread resurrects from the dead, in light of the recent exhibition thread...I don't know if we have a lot of americans on the forum apart from O'Roth but it's always good to have some input from guys in the country, so feel free to chip in.

As one of the biggest potential market in the world, coupled with an already notorious ability to produce freak athletes, the US is a very interesting topic in the oval planet.


Since the last thread, rugby has seen some improvements, mainly its success in 7's and growth of the game domestically particularly at age grade level. The inclusion in the Olympics will certainly offer a huge boost to 7's in terms of tv exposure and more inportantly training facilities/money for the players as the USOC has come flying to aid since the news of the inclusion went public.
The diffusion on fta tv of the first Collegiate Sevens Championship is certainly a step in the right direction as well. However, getting varsity status in colleges would be a major, MAJOR step forward, both in commercial and sport tems...One just has to see the number of people asking if colleges offer rugby scolarships to know some guys are really into the sport.


The following text is from a very very good blog called

www.gainline.us

and is some kind of statement about the game in the US. I think it is spot on.

Read on

Principles for an American Rugby Policy

The purpose of identifying and enmeshing bedrock principles within charter and policy is not to prescribe an organization's activity, but to ground it, to lend experience and even wisdom to ongoing activity and new ventures. In an effort to elucidate the few principles on which any successful rugby policy in America must be grounded, I recently reviewed writings on the 2009 season and then backtracked further, while also drawing on the work of colleagues at Rugby Magazine, American Rugby News, and elsewhere. I've also benefited from speaking with many players, coaches, and officials; but any errors of commission or omission must be my own.

1. The nucleus of American rugby is the team, and itspurpose is to provide competition for its members.

The main role of third parties (e.g., referees, league officials, vendors) is to promote competition. Commerce is a byproduct of serving teams.
Decisions about competition are best made by those authorities closest to the competitors, because the game encompasses the diversity of a continental nation.
To the extent that it directs resources away from team competition without delivering practical benefits, the claims of unions on teams are limited.

2. The leading resource for growth and improvement is the school system, which requires rugby to adopt a mainstream approach to sports.
Junior high, high school, and college teams sanctioned by school authorities enable rugby to systematically access valuable public resources.
Rugby teams, varsity or otherwise, that emulate mainstream sports in providing advanced coaching, facilities, sports science, etc. obtain more of the most valuable resource: athletes. School teams also benefit from scholastic brands.
Elite (i.e., representative or national) teams that replicate the varsity structure better prepare athletes since superior training is more practical than tougher competition. Olympic 7s represents the apotheosis of varsity training and support.

3. The sport is too small for a large number of full-timers, so union administrative and commercial initiatives should be measured according to benefits for teams.
The playing community, even if energized by successful national teams, diminishes its focus when asked to endlessly pay for athletes, coaches, and officials. The game will become ‘professional’ only when subsidies are no longer necessary.
The purpose of union initiatives is to generate financial returns to seed the growth and improvement of team competition.
The most important commercial opportunities lie in 7s because it is an Olympic sport with a privately managed international tournament, posing no risk to teams.

Dunnske
17-01-11, 11:10 AM
Canada has dominated the US in rugby hands down. Both countries have a LONG way to go but they will get there maybe not in this life but the next. Having lived in Canada before for 6 years but an Aussie through and through i can see that Canada has the opening for Rugby to take off because the CFL is not nearly as popular and over promoted as the NFL and Rugby could fill that gap.

Having said that Rugby will never rise above NFL in the US, or the NHL in the Canada.

darkozone
17-03-11, 05:09 PM
Canada has dominated the US in rugby hands down. Both countries have a LONG way to go but they will get there maybe not in this life but the next. Having lived in Canada before for 6 years but an Aussie through and through i can see that Canada has the opening for Rugby to take off because the CFL is not nearly as popular and over promoted as the NFL and Rugby could fill that gap.

Having said that Rugby will never rise above NFL in the US, or the NHL in the Canada.

Your right, it will never rise above, but there is a posibility of there being no NFL Football this year; which means a lot more of the RWC games will be seen on american TV. (Thank you NBC!) That may mean more people get to see rugby. What you have to realize is that rugby does have a very big following here in the US, the problem is the media won't put it on TV. Rugby is really restricted to DirecTV or Digital Cable owners, since the only way you can watch it is through Fox Soccer Plus (which is what I do) or a extra sports station from the provider. The provider stations suck too, because all the games are live, so there's a huge time difference. Of course you can record the games (which I do) but then if you get on TRF, ESPN Scrum, or something, you'll see the score of the game before you can watch it.