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View Full Version : Bakkies Botha - Best Lock In The World?



NeilSpitzberg
21-01-08, 01:58 PM
Is Bakkies Botha currently the best lock in the world?

I remember watching him in the world cup final 07, and he completely destroyed Simon Shaw and Ben Kay.

shazbooger
21-01-08, 02:33 PM
Nope, he's part of the best lock combination in the world but Victor Matfield is the best.......... by a long way.

NeilSpitzberg
21-01-08, 02:46 PM
Nope, he's part of the best lock combination in the world but Victor Matfield is the best.......... by a long way.
[/b]

Yeah, but Matfield is not as strong as Bakkies, nor does he have the same physical presence on the pitch. Did you see how Simon Shaw - who is at least 6'8, get completely overpowered by B.Botha in the world cup.

Incredible Schalk
21-01-08, 07:05 PM
You will probably get grilled for this thread but you wouldnt be far wrong. Matfield is the more recognised but in the loose Botha is the better ball carrier and always does an excellent job in the lineout. He was one of the few shining lights of the disastrous 2003 Bok team and has developed alongside big Vic to create by far the best lineout combination in the world.

nam97
21-01-08, 07:23 PM
Matfield's the orchestrator. Bakkies is just his big lumbering brainless grunt who likes a cheap shot or two.

Matfield is the best lock in the world. Shame he's leaving the Boks, will miss watching him play.

Steve-o
21-01-08, 08:32 PM
I remember Botha cleaning Kay off the ruck with his head during the WC. Straight in the ribs! Classic

Matfield and Botha are the best lock combination in the world for a reason. They both bring their contribution EQUALLY. The one doesn't disadvantage the other.

He has won everything a South African based player can win

187
22-01-08, 03:00 AM
yeah much respect to these two. but bakkies doesn't deserve his own thread! i reckon ali williams is better than him.

Dozzy_X
22-01-08, 03:48 AM
mmm i rate matfield over bakkies and chris jack over ali williams. who r we kidding, they're all pretty good.

danny
22-01-08, 07:55 AM
matfield is a class above Botha in all aspects of his play. Dont get me wrong Botha is an excellent lock its just that Matfields performance in the WC has put him in the "greats" bracket. Also dont get me started on cissy Williams.

shazbooger
22-01-08, 10:29 AM
They both bring their contribution EQUALLY. [/b] Yeah as you'd expect from any pairing. Its just Matfield brings his contribution a little ......... eh ............. MORE equally.

Ahhhh from an outsiders point of view. If Ireland were playing South Africa, and Botha wasnt playing I wouldnt see it making too much of a difference, if Matfield was out it would be a big loss.

Steve-o
22-01-08, 11:45 AM
<div class='quotemain'> They both bring their contribution EQUALLY. [/b] Yeah as you&#39;d expect from any pairing. Its just Matfield brings his contribution a little ......... eh ............. MORE equally.

Ahhhh from an outsiders point of view. If Ireland were playing South Africa, and Botha wasnt playing I wouldnt see it making too much of a difference, if Matfield was out it would be a big loss.
[/b][/quote]
That&#39;s actually pretty true. His ability in set pieces, namely line outs, nudges him ahead. Matfield is more of a specialist

I got a lil excited there lol. Botha&#39;s achievements still make him stand head and shoulders above most of his competitors though

candybum
22-01-08, 12:19 PM
I see Matfield more of a leadership type player than Bakkies, and Bakkies more of a action type player. However they are pretty equal in both skill and ability as a lock forward. I guess the likes of Chris Jack and Ali Williams lack the physical presence that both Bakkies and Victor commands, but compensates this to being more skillful/athletic(?) (Ali Williams).

KZNSharksFan
27-01-08, 12:29 PM
matfield is a class above Botha in all aspects of his play. Dont get me wrong Botha is an excellent lock its just that Matfields performance in the WC has put him in the "greats" bracket. Also dont get me started on cissy Williams.
[/b]

You have to remember that Botha is there to do specific, very specialized jobs, as is Matfield. Botha is there primarily for his mongrel instinct which intimidates the opposition as well as his ability to play as a fourth (slightly slower) loose forward- clearing out rucks etc. Matfield obviously is the Lineout kingpin. Interestingly, all great lock pairings have been made up of t players who work in tandem perfectly. ie Colin Meads with Sam Strahan, Frik Du Preez with Pieter Naude

melon
27-01-08, 01:26 PM
Dan Vickerman is better than Bakkies Botha.

Matfield is in his own league, slighty above the rest.

jawmalawm24
27-01-08, 01:32 PM
Bakkies Botha is awesome if you want brute strength outa your lock and good runups but all round I&#39;d easily give it to Victor Matfeld no one is on his level and its pretty much automatic when he jumps at the lineouts.

Nat
15-02-08, 02:14 PM
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.

KZNSharksFan
16-02-08, 06:06 AM
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.
[/b]

You&#39;re an idiot. And i had better not get a warning for saying that because it is totally justified

SaintsFan_Webby
16-02-08, 07:30 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.
[/b]

You&#39;re an idiot. And i had better not get a warning for saying that because it is totally justified [/b][/quote]

And yet you haven&#39;t actually justified or explained it in the slightest. :rolleyes:

melon
16-02-08, 02:29 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.
[/b]

You&#39;re an idiot. And i had better not get a warning for saying that because it is totally justified [/b][/quote]

And yet you haven&#39;t actually justified or explained it in the slightest. :rolleyes:
[/b][/quote]
A +warning then lol?

melon
16-02-08, 09:43 PM
In terms of explosive running of the ball, I&#39;d put Bakkies over Matfield, but thats all really.

KZNSharksFan
17-02-08, 02:25 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.
[/b]

You&#39;re an idiot. And i had better not get a warning for saying that because it is totally justified [/b][/quote]

And yet you haven&#39;t actually justified or explained it in the slightest. :rolleyes:
[/b][/quote]

Well his absurd comment justifies it, does it not? Read the whole page and you will see it further up

SaintsFan_Webby
17-02-08, 02:53 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.
[/b]

You&#39;re an idiot. And i had better not get a warning for saying that because it is totally justified [/b][/quote]

And yet you haven&#39;t actually justified or explained it in the slightest. :rolleyes:
[/b][/quote]

Well his absurd comment justifies it, does it not? Read the whole page and you will see it further up [/b][/quote]

No opinion is absurd until someone provides a decent counter argument. Something which you have spectacularly failed to do so far.

Orcaral
28-02-08, 09:27 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This thread is a joke...Bakkies Botha is nowhere near the level of international rugby...to think that he is a good player is to admit to a cocaine problem...thats just far out hahaha. Victor Matfield is good..but yeah I would say that Chris Jack (NZ)...oh it pains me to say it being an Aussie is the best lock in the world. Dan Vickerman a close 2nd.
[/b]

You&#39;re an idiot. And i had better not get a warning for saying that because it is totally justified [/b][/quote]

And yet you haven&#39;t actually justified or explained it in the slightest. :rolleyes:
[/b][/quote]

Well his absurd comment justifies it, does it not? Read the whole page and you will see it further up [/b][/quote]

No opinion is absurd until someone provides a decent counter argument. Something which you have spectacularly failed to do so far.
[/b][/quote]

I&#39;ll help :)

To clarify, I&#39;m a kiwi, so I&#39;m am not biased.

No where near international level? Guess being a frontline Springbok since pretty much 2002 doesn&#39;t count then. While not the stand-out loose locks like Ali Williams or Victor Matfield, Botha does the hard graft in the ruck and mauls, hits hard in the tackle, consistent at line-out time and is a huge presene on the field. While I wouldn&#39;t count him as one of the &#39;best&#39; locks in the world, Botha is most certainly ainternational quality lock, and consistently plays to that level. And this is from the view of SA&#39;s biggest rival.

For the best locks, I&#39;d put Matfield and Ali Williams up there. Williams has been on fire in 2007, and continueing that in 2008. One of the few All Blacks to play bloody well in Cardiff. Haven&#39;t seen Matfield this year so can&#39;t comment on his form, but over the last few years he has definately been up there.

I don&#39;t know where you got Chris Jack from, because you can&#39;t have been watching much of his games. While he&#39;s been consistent, he hasn&#39;t had any standout performances for the All Blacks in the last year or two. Always will be a class player, but best in the world? Not for the last 2 years anyway.

man007
28-02-08, 09:39 PM
Botha is a great lock , but his full power is seen when he plays with Victor Matfield , that is one of the best locks pair that ive seen in this modern rugby, their power in the lineout is amazing , and they played together a long time, and nothing is better in a pair of locks that they know each other ,and they are the living proof of that , but personally a like more Victor Matfield ,cause he is smart in his game , where botha is most wild.

Jonah
07-04-08, 02:13 PM
HELL NO

Now that Matfield has left the Africa (at least for a while), B Botha won&#39;t be as intimidating as before.

You know what combination can bring into a team...and Bakkies Botha is a lonely tiger at the moment

s33f
10-05-08, 05:25 PM
Matfield - Williams - Bakkies Botha