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View Full Version : Eddie O'Sullivan - His Legacy



An Tarbh
20-03-08, 10:15 AM
So Eddie O'Sullivan, largely lauded as the most successful coach in Irish rugby having guided the golden generation throughout his tenure. Well ******** to that.

Here's your record Eddie:

Let's start with the Southern Hemisphere Sides:

Argentina: P6, W3, L3 - 50% record not too bad, not too good.

Australia: P7, W2, L5 - 28% record, not the best

New Zealand: P5, L5 - 0%, dismal

South Africa: P4, W2, L2, 50%, again not too bad, not too good

Northern Hemisphere Sides, only using England, France and Wales here.

England: P7, W4, L3 - 57%, one of his better records

France: P9, W1, L8 - 11%, his most dismal record, generally clueless as to what gameplan to employ against the French

Wales: P8, W6, L2, 75%, his best record but Wales have gone through more troughs and peaks throughout Eddie's tenure so not the best barometer to judge him by.

So overall then: P47, W18, L25 - giving him a 38% success rate, now that's a failure even by Irish standards.

Yes there were 3 triple crowns but two of them should have been grand slams, no championship, no southern hemisphere away win and two failures at the world cup both preceeded by contract extensions.

How can this team be called the most successful with that record when the team of the 80s won 3 championships. Eddie's people certainly know how to spin, he learnt well from Woodturd on the Lions tour, shame he didn't pick up anything for on the field.

Well it's been 3 long years but now he's finally gone and thanks to Browne's incompetence it's made the task for a new coach all the more tougher.

peppers07
20-03-08, 10:55 AM
it would be inreall if the IRFU were able to get Jake White but England will probably get him if they fire Ashton

An Tarbh
20-03-08, 11:19 AM
well if the talk of Johnson going in as England manager are true then maybe Ashton will get a stay of execution giving the IRFU a window to get someone like White.

shazbooger
20-03-08, 08:17 PM
Why not also mention the fact that Ireland have failed to beat the SH teams in about a kallion attempts before we started to win with him in charge? He may have failed to beat New Zealand but has any Irish team beaten them? I know this time, even away from home we gave them a serious run for their money and were considered unlucy we didnt get that away win.

I remember watching us play the All Blacks in Lansdowne twice. The first time just watching Lomu destroy us single handedly and happily watching the spectacle for what it was, the second feeling f***ing disgusted that we didnt stuff them in our own back yard.

I remember the days when we used to be happy with winning a game in the 5 nations. I remember when the old "ahhh sure we gave them a run for their money" seemed to be enough. It was only under Eddie O'Sullivan that the Irish rugby public actually dared to dream of wins over South Africa, Australia and England.

Jesus I've been going to Lansdowne and now Croke Park since I was 10. I remember the really really **** days, and because of them I will never forget the good days we've had over the past 7-8 years. Not all Eddie O'Sullivan's credit to take, but he was there for the majority of them.

Again I'll repeat, it was time for him to go, but you havent even tried to paint a balanced picture in the above post.

The words "lies, damned lies and statistics" come to mind.

An Tarbh
20-03-08, 09:26 PM
Why not also mention the fact that Ireland have failed to beat the SH teams in about a kallion attempts before we started to win with him in charge? He may have failed to beat New Zealand but has any Irish team beaten them? I know this time, even away from home we gave them a serious run for their money and were considered unlucy we didnt get that away win.

I remember watching us play the All Blacks in Lansdowne twice. The first time just watching Lomu destroy us single handedly and happily watching the spectacle for what it was, the second feeling f***ing disgusted that we didnt stuff them in our own back yard.

I remember the days when we used to be happy with winning a game in the 5 nations. I remember when the old "ahhh sure we gave them a run for their money" seemed to be enough. It was only under Eddie O'Sullivan that the Irish rugby public actually dared to dream of wins over South Africa, Australia and England.

Jesus I've been going to Lansdowne and now Croke Park since I was 10. I remember the really really **** days, and because of them I will never forget the good days we've had over the past 7-8 years. Not all Eddie O'Sullivan's credit to take, but he was there for the majority of them.

Again I'll repeat, it was time for him to go, but you havent even tried to paint a balanced picture in the above post.

The words "lies, damned lies and statistics" come to mind.
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3 poxy triple crowns and he's the most successful coach, the team of the 80s had 3 championships, the teams in the 70s were able to get wins in the Southern Hemisphere, even the ****e team of the early 90s was able to push the Southern Hemisphere close, 91 world cup quarter final, first test in Dunedin in 92 and it was more of the same with Eddie O'Sullivan, too many close but no cigar games, yeah we improved and I accept that but that's as much down to demographics than anything else.

You'd swear Eddie was a visionary cause he dreamt of beating southern hemisphere teams, I doubt the previous coaches went into those matches wanting to lose but they didn't have the personnel, Eddie did.

Don't even get me started on selection issues cause we could be here all year.

Lies, damned lies and statistics certainly sums up Eddie's career alright, cause in the overall scheme of things the stats don't look too bad, 78 games, 50 wins and 28 losses, not too shabby really but if you do as I've done and break it down to the individual teams at the top tier of the game then you get a more balanced view of how successful he really was as a coach.

shazbooger
20-03-08, 09:53 PM
I'm saying Eddie was the greatest coach weve ever had (though statistically he is), or that his reign was all rosie. The fact is I agree with a lot of your complaints about Eddie.

I'm just saying that if your going to try and paint a picture of 6-7 years of failure, which is what you seem to be doing, you need to try harder then that.

Ahhh this would be a good conversation over a rake of pints.

An Tarbh
20-03-08, 10:28 PM
Slight distance problem I'd imagine.

It certainly wasn't 6 years of failure, it's just that I balk at the fact that people are saying he's the most successful coach we've ever had, I made the same point to someone else about the record against the top 7 sides and his response was, oh the top 7 is changing all the time, so that's a pretty pointless argument, what utter nonsense but that's the sort of thing I'm dealing with.

I don't want him to be judged in comparison to other Irish coaches, he should be judged on what he did with the resources he had, which wasn't an awful lot if I'm honest. We've gone away from being the target win we were in the 90s which is fair enough, I too have had my fill of bad days at Lansdowne throughout the 90s to appreciate the good days and no doubt there were good days just not enough silverware to go alongside it which is where my ultimate dissappointment lies.

shtove
20-03-08, 11:35 PM
This becomes pointed because of the Gatland comparison through this year's 6N. I'm not convinced Gatland is the better coach - yet.

Eddie was responsible for a surge of relief after the dark days that started with the Millennium International in 1988 - twelve years of groans, relieved by a single RWC "almost made it, except we're Irish and chaotic" semi final. Gatland did OK, but Eddie gave us our greatest wins, far beyond the level of play that brought the bit of success in the early '80s. And he gave us our greatest tries. Ireland's win over Aus in November 06 was the best I've ever seen. Grateful for that.

But he didn't do it when it mattered. We pushed the ABs in New Zealand, and I thought that was OK because we'd step up later on. Never even got the chance. The Argentina experiences were head clutchers, but probably say more about the state of world rugby rather than Eddie. The worst part of his record is the list of defeats to France. And now Wales and England have broken the Irish curse.

I don't buy the Golden Generation idea - we still have players coming through, just need to get everyone around and start again. If Eddie really was good, then what he leaves behind should be ready for a quick change over.

An Tarbh
21-03-08, 08:32 AM
This becomes pointed because of the Gatland comparison through this year's 6N. I'm not convinced Gatland is the better coach - yet.

Eddie was responsible for a surge of relief after the dark days that started with the Millennium International in 1988 - twelve years of groans, relieved by a single RWC "almost made it, except we're Irish and chaotic" semi final. Gatland did OK, but Eddie gave us our greatest wins, far beyond the level of play that brought the bit of success in the early '80s. And he gave us our greatest tries. Ireland's win over Aus in November 06 was the best I've ever seen. Grateful for that.

But he didn't do it when it mattered. We pushed the ABs in New Zealand, and I thought that was OK because we'd step up later on. Never even got the chance. The Argentina experiences were head clutchers, but probably say more about the state of world rugby rather than Eddie. The worst part of his record is the list of defeats to France. And now Wales and England have broken the Irish curse.

I don't buy the Golden Generation idea - we still have players coming through, just need to get everyone around and start again. If Eddie really was good, then what he leaves behind should be ready for a quick change over.
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Well of all the wins we've had with this team, for me the best of them all came in Paris in 2000, something Eddie never managed in 4 attempts, not only did they play some scintilating rugby but showed enormous character to come back from 19-7 down in Paris, where previous teams have taken a pasting, but also the nerve of Humphreys to slot the winning penalty having missed an easier chance in the corresponding fixture in 1999.