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lineens weegie army
21-04-08, 09:42 PM
Is it just me or has the standard of refereeing in the ML been absolutly appaling this season?



I dont know if weve just been unlucky, but I can think of 2 decent refs who have come to Firhill this season, some who are alright and some whom I wouldnt trust with a schools game. Take fridays game for example (Glasgow v Scarlets) - I know few people here will have seen it, but there were several incidents where Glasgow players kicked ahead and gave chase only to be taken out off the ball. Now im no expert on the rules, but that is illegal and punishable by a yellow (or Red in extreme cases) and if the ref deems that a try would have been scored, a penalty try.



Now with the score at 0-3, Parks hit ahead from inside the Scarlets 22, and would have scored had 2 opposing players not come together to block his path. penalty try? definatly! should one or both walk? if the ref can tell which one is at fault then yes! and Wilkinsons decision? play on! :o



Fast forward 30 minutes or so, and just before HT the Warriors are leading 13-6, but are under a lot of pressure - until Thom Evans makes a break and kicks ahead and looks favourite to gather his own kick until bam! a Scarlets player runs straight into him, making him tumble to the ground! Now not only is that cynical foul play (a red card with no discretion is it not?) but it is downright dangerous given the speed at which the players collided. Wilkinsons decision? HT! :o



Then into the second half, and the Warriors have been piling on the pressure, and the Scarlets keep giving away penalties 5 metres out (including infringments at the scrum) but Wilkinson keeps giving them another chance. and then when the Warriors do get a penalty they tap it and are tackled instantly (again, should be a penalty try? certainly given the fact they did it twice!) but Wilkinson turns a blind eye!



OK, fridays was the worst performance this season, but James Jones had a few howlers at the begining - including the 11-11 draw with Munster. with Glasgow having just scored a try, and looking very dangerous, Thom Evans is released down the wing to score in the far corner, but Jones (and his linesman) decide he had a foot in touch. This game was televised, and so Jones had the option of sending the decision upstairs - so surley to disallow the try he must have CLEARLY seen Thom's foot in touch. The TV replays clearly show this isnt the case, and so surley questions must be asked of his ability to referee a game? (This decision came at a crucial time in a game that, if given correctly, could have changed the shape of our entire season!)



Oh, and dont even get me started on Mr Changleng!



And the other thing that amases me is Touch Judges not raising the referees attention to blatant fouls (a game this season where a player was tackled high and off the ball right infront of the linesman springs to mind, amongst the various offside decisions missed)





OK, rant over (for now) but on a serious note: Who polices referees decisions? To go back to the example from Glasgow v Munster, on that occassion the decision undoubtedly affected the outcome of the game, and in the modern game coaches and players live by the decisions they make! If a coach keeps making wrong calls, he will pay ultimatly with his job (Ashton, O'Sullivan to name 2 recent victims) and if a player isnt up to scratch he will be dropped (Wilkinsons name has to be mentioned here). So why is it that when referees make calls that could, potentially, put a coach's job on the line, can he just run away and not be held accountable?

Sir Speedy
21-04-08, 09:52 PM
The standard of refereeing matches the standard of competitivity in the League. I mean, I see what you're saying, but to win the Magners League is deemed as nothing at the moment, so I don't understand as to why you're so bitter.
Changeling isn't even fit to ref at Welsh Premiership level, nevermind top club level, so that fact that he's refereeing matches in this League (and what's even more ****ing bizaare is how he was allowed to ref the Heineken Cup opener between Wasps and Munster! How the hell can a man as useless as this when it comes to reffing a game be allowed to dictate one of the most important games of the season for those two teams?) shows the standard of it.

MunsterMan
23-04-08, 09:59 PM
Jones was absolutely appalling at the weekend (why was there a Welsh ref for an Ospreys game any way?)

An Tarbh
23-04-08, 10:05 PM
Jones was absolutely appalling at the weekend (why was there a Welsh ref for an Ospreys game any way?)
[/b]

because there was an Irish ref for the game in Swansea. It just avoids having a Scottish ref which is understandable given what's on offer.

lineens weegie army
24-04-08, 04:11 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Jones was absolutely appalling at the weekend (why was there a Welsh ref for an Ospreys game any way?)
[/b]

because there was an Irish ref for the game in Swansea. It just avoids having a Scottish ref which is understandable given what&#39;s on offer. [/b][/quote]



They removed the ref &#39;impartiallyty&#39; rule last summer to allow that.



and sir speedy - im not just talking about the ML here - we had Jones for a HC match and he had absolutly no control over the game! and even the standard at 6 Nations level can be pretty appauling! (as a Scot, i have seen 2 tries in 2 years awarded by a TMO when its reasonably clear to see it wasnt a try - and if the TMO cant get it right then god help us!)

Sir Speedy
24-04-08, 04:23 PM
and sir speedy - im not just talking about the ML here - we had Jones for a HC match and he had absolutly no control over the game! and even the standard at 6 Nations level can be pretty appauling! (as a Scot, i have seen 2 tries in 2 years awarded by a TMO when its reasonably clear to see it wasnt a try - and if the TMO cant get it right then god help us!)
[/b]
I think you&#39;re overreacting here. It&#39;s not like all the ref&#39;s are conspiring solely against the Scots. All referee&#39;s make decisions that can cause controversy for some teams, but only some are reeeaaaly bad. Chris White blowing up early when we lost to Italy last year was a **** decision and one to cause a fuss over. Some of the stuff you mentioned in the original post happens to every team. Well, you could say that, or you could also say that the referee&#39;s have a better view of the game on the pitch than we do at home. Sometimes decisions only look controversial because we look at the video replays, the NZ v France forward pass, for example.

lineens weegie army
24-04-08, 06:09 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
and sir speedy - im not just talking about the ML here - we had Jones for a HC match and he had absolutly no control over the game! and even the standard at 6 Nations level can be pretty appauling! (as a Scot, i have seen 2 tries in 2 years awarded by a TMO when its reasonably clear to see it wasnt a try - and if the TMO cant get it right then god help us!)
[/b]
I think you&#39;re overreacting here. It&#39;s not like all the ref&#39;s are conspiring solely against the Scots. All referee&#39;s make decisions that can cause controversy for some teams, but only some are reeeaaaly bad. Chris White blowing up early when we lost to Italy last year was a **** decision and one to cause a fuss over. Some of the stuff you mentioned in the original post happens to every team. Well, you could say that, or you could also say that the referee&#39;s have a better view of the game on the pitch than we do at home. Sometimes decisions only look controversial because we look at the video replays, the NZ v France forward pass, for example. [/b][/quote]



Im not overreacting - I know fine well that other teams fall victim to these decisions as well, but due to other comitments I only ever see 6N&#39;s games involving Scotland (the only other game i saw this year was France v Italy) so I cant comment on other games. Im not suggesting that Scotland are being cheated out of results - were crap and couldnt win if the ref gave countless decisions wrongly our way! - but my point is that in the modern game coaches and players reputations live by their decisions in game, and could be sacked if they dont perform - yet referees can put in a sub-standard performance every week and nothing can be done: If coaches come out and slate them then the coach or player get hammered (which happened in scottish football last week, when an Aberdeen player slated the decision by the ref to disallow a perfectly good goal and is now being punished for it - despite the ref coming out and admiting his mistake!)



And I take your point about the ref seeing a different angle - but some incidents you could watch upside down and still see its a blatant foul (in particular talking about the shoulder charge on Thom Evans on friday!) and the TMO sees the same angles we do so how can he not get it right?

peppers07
24-04-08, 09:33 PM
The Standerd of refing in every top toournament is shocling refs must be made acountable for their desicions

Ripper
25-04-08, 12:50 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
and sir speedy - im not just talking about the ML here - we had Jones for a HC match and he had absolutly no control over the game! and even the standard at 6 Nations level can be pretty appauling! (as a Scot, i have seen 2 tries in 2 years awarded by a TMO when its reasonably clear to see it wasnt a try - and if the TMO cant get it right then god help us!)
[/b]
I think you&#39;re overreacting here. It&#39;s not like all the ref&#39;s are conspiring solely against the Scots. All referee&#39;s make decisions that can cause controversy for some teams, but only some are reeeaaaly bad. Chris White blowing up early when we lost to Italy last year was a **** decision and one to cause a fuss over. Some of the stuff you mentioned in the original post happens to every team. Well, you could say that, or you could also say that the referee&#39;s have a better view of the game on the pitch than we do at home. Sometimes decisions only look controversial because we look at the video replays, the NZ v France forward pass, for example. [/b][/quote]

Hate to dig up this topic, but everyone, including the commentators (specifically Hamish McKay who seems to be blind as a bat) called that pass foward the instant it left the player&#39;s hand. And it wasn&#39;t just the foward pass, but the whole way the second half was reffed is what caused anguish against that little **** Barnes.

An Tarbh
25-04-08, 12:27 PM
I don&#39;t think it&#39;s a case of digging up old topics, it&#39;s more a case of holding a grudge, I still do against that prick Paddy O&#39;Brien for not pinging Smith for blatant hands in the ruck in our pool game against Australia right at the death and the fact that that gob****e is now in charge of refs is symptomatic of the wider problem.