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View Full Version : Kelleher: S14 is poor, NH better



erwanseb
25-04-08, 02:55 PM
He also identifies the key difference between the seasons in the two hemispheres. “Southern hemisphere rugby is a hundred-metre sprint, whereas northern hemisphere rugby, especially in France, is a marathon. The skill levels and execution have been poor in the Super 14 this season. Quite clearly, northern hemisphere teams have been playing much better rugby.”

Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article3779821.ece)

Steve-o
25-04-08, 03:05 PM
L.M.A.O

jawmalawm24
25-04-08, 03:20 PM
Piri Weepu > Byron Kelleher

Southern Hemisphere Rugby > Northern Hemisphere Rugby but getting better because of all the players that are getting mugged from the down under

BLR
25-04-08, 03:29 PM
I lost all respect for Kelleher when he left Otago, he can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned...

Maccaweeny
25-04-08, 04:25 PM
http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/orly-33775.jpg

crookedson
25-04-08, 04:57 PM
http://www.strangepersons.com/images/content/8531.jpg

Maccaweeny
25-04-08, 05:22 PM
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/random585/lol.jpg

BLR
25-04-08, 05:27 PM
Okay...I think that is enough with the pictures...especially that last one...

crookedson
25-04-08, 06:02 PM
Have you heard of this player called Michael Jordan? Hes a rookie playing for the bulls and everyone is hyping him up to be the greatest nba player of all time. I think hes good, but im not to sure hes good enough to take the bulls to the playoffs. Only time will tell.....

gingergenius
25-04-08, 07:01 PM
OK yeah I'm not going to say anything more than that's now 2 All Black scrum halves who've come North and said it's better.

We may not have it loc'd down internationally but our club sides are sick.

Sir Speedy
25-04-08, 07:06 PM
Can&#39;t blame him for a <strike>correct</strike> opinion.
Ahem.

crookedson
25-04-08, 07:15 PM
Can&#39;t blame him for a <strike>incorrect</strike> opinion.
Ahem.
[/b]

There I fixed it for ya

Sir Speedy
25-04-08, 07:31 PM
Don&#39;t fix what doesn&#39;t need fixing damnit! :huh:

Prestwick
25-04-08, 07:50 PM
You guys just couldn&#39;t leave it alone, could you...

...I&#39;d be careful all you folk in the SH, you might hear the sound of the RFU&#39;s black helicopters....

Bullitt
25-04-08, 07:50 PM
Oh whoopie...


Originally posted by Childish Members
NoooooOOOOOOOOOooooooooo.... YUO R WRONG!!!1!!!1!!!

MY <strike>COCK</strike> HEMISPHERE IS BIGGAH AND BETTAH THEN YOURS!!!1!!!1!!1!!ONE!11!

Yawn.

Ripper
25-04-08, 11:19 PM
You guys just couldn&#39;t leave it alone, could you...

...I&#39;d be careful all you folk in the SH, you might hear the sound of the RFU&#39;s black helicopters.... [/b]

Is Kellehar an All Black great as well?

DonBilly
25-04-08, 11:24 PM
:zzz: :zzz:

Prestwick
25-04-08, 11:47 PM
<div class='quotemain'> You guys just couldn&#39;t leave it alone, could you...

...I&#39;d be careful all you folk in the SH, you might hear the sound of the RFU&#39;s black helicopters.... [/b]

Is Kellehar an All Black great as well?
[/b][/quote]

I don&#39;t know, I didn&#39;t start the thread.

Maybe this question is better directed at the guy who started the thread? Maybe you could just agree with me in saying that this thread shouldn&#39;t have been started at all?

KZNSharksFan
26-04-08, 01:00 AM
You guys can not seriously believe that clubs who actually have to buy "has-been" players to compete, have a serious chance against the likes of the Crusaders or Chiefs or Sharks?

I think most people with even a limited degree of rugby knowledge can see that the S14 teams are better, but that the heineken cup is a better competition.
Can you honestly say that many of those clubs would compete with a realistic chance of winning without all their imports? I think not.

The quality of the play in a Nations domestic scene is a very good indicator of the strength of the National team and vise versa, and given the rather poor record from Europe in the test department over the past four years, it&#39;s clear that the play at domestic level is not as good as other domestic competitions(ie super 14).
In the Heineken Cup, English, French etc players are losing out to foreigners that can&#39;t even be selected for the national team thus further reducing the depth of talent in Europe.
George Gregan has said (admittefly from a 2nd division Toulon point of view) that the play is much slower and less skillful than in S14, but also that the S14 was an inferior competition.

From any angle it just looks like past international no.9&#39;s want to be in the paper and that the top 4 S14 teams would likely sh*t all over the top 4 HEC teams from a great height :D

Let the fiery rebuttals begin

Sir Speedy
26-04-08, 01:16 AM
Na, I&#39;ll just say you&#39;re wrong and run away before I&#39;m crushed by 20 responses telling me how I&#39;M wrong. Then we&#39;ll get some NH&#39;ers who&#39;ll come and tell you guys that you&#39;re wrong!
/circle of life.

Prestwick
26-04-08, 01:26 AM
/circle of life. [/b]

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6LzIO2QTBaw&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6LzIO2QTBaw&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


(Obviously trying to sabotage the thread)

Sir Speedy
26-04-08, 01:37 AM
AMAZINGLY, I was thinking of that movie when I typed that. SO THERE!

KZNSharksFan
26-04-08, 01:40 AM
Na, I&#39;ll just say you&#39;re wrong and run away before I&#39;m crushed by 20 responses telling me how I&#39;M wrong. Then we&#39;ll get some NH&#39;ers who&#39;ll come and tell you guys that you&#39;re wrong!
/circle of life.
[/b]

Your rhetoric is astounding, truly demolished my argument. Bravo :bravo:

Sir Speedy
26-04-08, 01:44 AM
It&#39;s what I do. ;)

Incredible Schalk
26-04-08, 12:45 PM
You guys can not seriously believe that clubs who actually have to buy "has-been" players to compete, have a serious chance against the likes of the Crusaders or Chiefs or Sharks?

[/b]

:lol: They would beat the Sharks who are cack at the moment, now replace that with the Stormers :bravo:

KZNSharksFan
26-04-08, 01:19 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
You guys can not seriously believe that clubs who actually have to buy "has-been" players to compete, have a serious chance against the likes of the Crusaders or Chiefs or Sharks?

[/b]

:lol: They would beat the Sharks who are cack at the moment, now replace that with the Stormers :bravo:
[/b][/quote]

Yea i wont argue. Stupid Sharks :wall:

Maccaweeny
26-04-08, 04:55 PM
Can&#39;t blame him for a <strike>correct</strike> opinion.
Ahem.
[/b]

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii92/random585/Justaretard.jpg

Steve-o
26-04-08, 09:50 PM
Maybe you could just agree with me in saying that this thread shouldn&#39;t have been started at all?

[/b]
Agreed.

M Two One
26-04-08, 10:04 PM
I enjoy both styles of play between the two hemispheres. That&#39;s what makes the sport even more interesting and competitive. You can be proud of whichever hemisphere you&#39;re a part of, but there&#39;s no need for ignorant responses to something so unimportant of a statement made by a single player.

KZNSharksFan
27-04-08, 03:59 AM
Hey, hold on, Is that Ogara in Maccaweeny&#39;s post

ade11
27-04-08, 06:23 PM
Super 14 is awesome attacking rugby whilst Northern hemisphere rugby is more about defence. The two really shouldn&#39;t be compared.

Steve-o
27-04-08, 07:25 PM
When SH teams and NH teams play against each other people will start comparing. It&#39;s inevitable. But by now, it&#39;s quite predictable. Predictably inconclusive

Macsen
27-04-08, 07:47 PM
I think NH rugby is better because it is played during the day. Why do those SH teams play at like 3am? Madness!

Bullitt
27-04-08, 07:56 PM
:lol: :bravo:
I think NH rugby is better because it is played during the day. Why do those SH teams play at like 3am? Madness! [/b]

crookedson
27-04-08, 08:47 PM
Please use my signature for future reference when this argument pops up again.

woosaah
28-04-08, 03:03 AM
who plays rugby at 3am? i have never heard of that.

normally games are played local time at 730pm. we have day games as well but they are all spread out throughout the timezones so there arnt any games that play at the same time. making it so everyone can see their team play live whenever they are playing.

BLR
28-04-08, 03:27 AM
who plays rugby at 3am? i have never heard of that.

normally games are played local time at 730pm. we have day games as well but they are all spread out throughout the timezones so there arnt any games that play at the same time. making it so everyone can see their team play live whenever they are playing.
[/b]
I think he was taking the ****, because it&#39;s on 3am thier time....

woosaah
28-04-08, 04:10 AM
i would hope so, cause if he wasnt then we would all be a bit worried.

i hop ehe has heard of timezones :)

Nidhogg
28-04-08, 10:27 AM
Rugby is probably the only sport in the world where hemispheres are used in a nationalistic manner.

erwanseb
28-04-08, 01:57 PM
Given that viewing figures dropped by 21% between 2006 and 2008, something must be wrong down there.

NZRU in need of outside help (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/story.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10506445)

Are we watching the fall of the equivalent of the Berlin wall in the world of rugby ?

Prestwick
28-04-08, 02:43 PM
They think they should introduce live sex to Super 14 rugby to spice it up a bit.

BLR
28-04-08, 03:20 PM
They think they should introduce live sex to Super 14 rugby to spice it up a bit.
[/b]
Nah, we save that for our half time shows. ;)

Prestwick
28-04-08, 03:33 PM
Well, I was thinking, as Saracens are now confirmed as the 4th best team in Europe (for the evening that is, that was before we were told that we&#39;d be mixing it up with giants like Gran Parma in the European Challenge cup next year) and as its a foregone conclusion that the 1990s cartoon soccer side, the Hurricanes, will capture fourth place from those holders of chicken drumsticks, the Chiefs...who would win...?

I&#39;m torn, a Saracens and &#39;caines fan...so sad that I would not be able to smack talk, only say teary eyed that Rugby would win!

eoinod
28-04-08, 06:18 PM
Think the S14 is was better. A lot more exciting better running rugby. Those experimental rule changes have made a difference!

stevemagoo
01-05-08, 09:30 AM
http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3...3499057,00.html (http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3551_3499057,00.html)

Interesting article on the ELVs to look at.

I don&#39;t watch any S14, so can&#39;t comment..

Steve-o
01-05-08, 12:46 PM
http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3...3499057,00.html (http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3551_3499057,00.html)

Interesting article on the ELVs to look at.

I don&#39;t watch any S14, so can&#39;t comment.. [/b]



I knew this guy didn&#39;t know what he&#39;s talking about when he said:






This infantilisation of our grand old sport is already in full swing: the ELVs are barely out of their infancy and already they have transformed the Super 14 into a miasma devoid of wit or intelligence. It&#39;s McRugby and it&#39;s just perfect for the mass market.

All the teams share the same gameplan: run, bash, run, bash, run, bash, run, bash.


[/b]



He doesn&#39;t mention that there as more scrums or anything like that. What about the alleged kicking fest we&#39;re having?



If he&#39;d put down stats like the average rucks, average runnings meters gained and average runs with ball in hand from last years S14 and this years S14 then he&#39;d have a good argument.

He&#39;s targeting a negative and un-imformed public



Oh and I just love the whole money rant, denying is money huge motive in rugby nowdays is denying professionalism. Has he cared to look at all the SH players in the NH currently?



What a joke

mark_shaw
10-06-08, 05:50 AM
i just wanna say that coming from playing rugby compettively in nz. and played a higher level in england. i found that even playn a lower level in new zealand was harder, more phycially demanding and better skill. thanks for reading.

C A Iversen
10-06-08, 07:36 AM
I&#39;ve had mates who are only average go to England for their OE and end up captaining teams and having the odd hat-trick of tries. I&#39;m not kidding either, one of them was having a real battle with me for starts in certain back-line positions and I didn&#39;t believe how it was over there till he showed me his girlfriends video camera footage. I was laughing.

I&#39;m sure it&#39;s not all like that, but what an eye-opener. I&#39;d honestly contribute to a fund which brought Prestwick to NZ to play in one of our club sides. A lower division local club, not talking anything major. Even just a similar grade to what he&#39;s ever played in England, he could bring Teh Mite.

They could go home after a season and steam-roll their mates.

Dmx#1
10-06-08, 08:32 AM
Do the english even know what a try is????

Steve-o
10-06-08, 08:39 AM
I played a touring English highschool side back in 2005, can&#39;t for the life of me remember where in England they came from (something -shire, i guess). We ran out winners, something like 58 - 6, spoke to a few of the chaps afterwards and turns out we were suppose to be their &#39;warm up&#39; game before they tour. Their coach chose us because we had about 300 people in our highschool, while they had about 300 people per grade! I wonder how the rest of the tour was lol. Pity for them we had possibly the best natural rugby players I&#39;ve ever played with, playing 8th man and lil &#39;ol me as open side flanker :D

candybum
10-06-08, 09:23 AM
Coming from South Auckland (in nz) and being a non pacific islander... playing down these ways definitely toughens you up!! lol c&#39;mon 160kg prop running at me (70kgs) and making a successful tackle? Balls man balls haha

Which is why im not scared of the westies easties centralies and northees lol

Gay-Guy
10-06-08, 11:24 AM
Well the lower grades in small club teams in NZ have players who know the basics of passing and tackling as a given before they even join up. I suppose it is a bit like how everyone in England can juggle a soccer ball at least 4 times.

Prestwick
10-06-08, 04:33 PM
I played a touring English highschool side back in 2005, can&#39;t for the life of me remember where in England they came from (something -shire, i guess). We ran out winners, something like 58 - 6, spoke to a few of the chaps afterwards and turns out we were suppose to be their &#39;warm up&#39; game before they tour. [/b]

Okay just a question here.

Was this "high school" a Grammar School, a Public School (i.e. Private, fee charging school like Eton or Harrow for example) or a basic, state funded comprehensive school?

If so, that would give us a better clue as to the standard of rugby because the School systems of the UK are incredibly complex and a basic "high school" just doesn&#39;t exist.

Anyway, allow me to fill you in. The best school teams come from the Public Schools. They hire ex-army or Royal Marine Commando guys to be the PE or PT teachers and thus the coaches. Those schools spend their weekends (remember, these are mostly boarding schools) running up hills with bags of rocks on their backs, doing intense cardio work and generally beating the team into a high level of fitness upon which they then go hard into rugby training. These guys are usually where the future England stars come from traditionally.

The competetiveness goes usually beyond hiring ex-millitary to do the training. Theres lots of psychological elements. For example, they&#39;ll introduce visiting teams to the "field" they&#39;ll be playing on. Here, the team have purposely spead broken glass, shrredded coke cans and other sharp and nasty stuff across the field. Obviously, they move to the real pitch (free of anything sharp) but its that first impression which scares the crap out of the visiting team.

Despite this however, unless you&#39;re coming from an area of the UK traditionally strong in Rugby like the South West or the North West of England, then you have a process of teaching 8 - 18 year olds how to suck eggs essentially. This means allot of time is lost while they teach those not clued up on the basics. You just don&#39;t get that with football or even Cricket.

The second tier are the Grammar Schools. Less intense but they still train seriously and can field at least two teams. Pretty reasonable and actually raising the standard of rugby.

The third, final and lowest tier are the Comprehensives. These are the schools who barely manage to get an XV together, let alone more. Training is done by PE Teachers without much clue as to rugby and usually rely on partnerships with the local GP club (Saracens for example have coaching programs with many Schools in Herts & Essex to actually teach the PE teachers actually how to coach Rugby to the pupils). Also, at Comprehensive level, rugby has to compete with football. During the winter, you can&#39;t play on the fields during lunchtime so you play football in the playground. During the Summer, you play football on the fields. The only time when these guys get to even touch a rugby ball is during the winter during PE or if they go and join a local rugby club.

By your description therefore Steve, I&#39;d say you faced either a poor Grammar School team or a Comprehensive team. Most likely the latter.

I&#39;m not saying that your team didn&#39;t deserve to win, just wanted to know what kind of school they came from so we can gauge properly what kind of opposition you were facing back in 2005.

Steve-o
10-06-08, 05:08 PM
Grammar school! That&#39;s it, I think.. They brought a hockey team with if that helps anything. I really can&#39;t tell you if they were from the north, south, west or east (i can understand the significance of that) but their accents weren&#39;t strong. They sounded a bit like that dude on top gear extra (the main host).

Prestwick
10-06-08, 07:58 PM
Yeah, the hockey team is the big givaway. Seriously, the only teams you&#39;ll see from Comprehensive Schools are soccer teams and maybe a strong-ish athletics team. Its only the public and grammar schools that give a toss about Rugby & Cricket.

It is so frustrating because the Public & Grammar schools do try, they try their arses off but usually they&#39;re hamstrung but idiot government legislation and frankly idiot government attempts to cripple them or shut them down altogether, which hinders the development of the next generation of Rugby Stars.

errlloyd
10-06-08, 08:51 PM
Same thing in Ireland, I went to a school that was not competitive in rugby, for those of you who live in Ireland it was the other side of booterstown avenue from blackrock (braces for abuse). It was second tier (in fact played in the 2nd of 3 divisions divided exactly as you say), and yet we had an imported south African coach, a rugby team only weights gym and a shed load of shocking results.

Strangely enough we have the best hockey teams in Ireland, and two amazing Astro Pitches (something must universities only got recently). With an average year size of 150 split 75 female and 75 male, if 25 don&#39;t play sport, 25 play hockey then only 25 can play rugby, and yet it was a large part of our budget.

Across the road was/is Blackrock (Brian O Driscoll went there and Luke Fitzgerald practically only just left) and they would historically be one of the best, obviously we would always get hammered by them, but then up the road was Collaiste Eoin, which was a Gael Scoil and so it only played Hurling and Gaelic football. Out of town a bit you got Newpark which was Public (by which I mean Comprehensive, in Ireland thats public) they had a bit of everything, 3rd tier rugby team, but it was a well respected public, further out the public schools rarely have rugby teams.

Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.

Steve-o
10-06-08, 09:12 PM
I blame politics aye.
Thanks for the explanations Prestwick

BLR
11-06-08, 03:42 AM
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.[/b]
We beat the All Blacks in Australia and Rugby Union is far behind AFL, League, Cricket and now League....some commentators even think that Union is in its death throes in Australia, so that ain&#39;t an excuse for having rubbish sporting stocks. ;)

mark_shaw
11-06-08, 05:09 AM
im over this debate. where better then u down here at rugby. your better then us up there at football.

case closed

C A Iversen
11-06-08, 05:11 AM
That verdict sits very comfortably with me, lol.

Jer1cho
11-06-08, 06:31 AM
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.[/b]

Well, South Africa has a population of about 45million. Rugby is 95% a white dominated sport. So take the 5miillion white people in South Africa, and add another million to compensate for the tiny black population that takes interest in rugby.

Then divide that by about half (to compensate for the female white population) and you have 3million potential rugby players... Then, i would say around 1/3rd of them have no interest in the game whatsoever.....

Then boom, you have like 2million people in South Africa to play rugby... So it&#39;s a void argument really...

Gay-Guy
11-06-08, 08:27 AM
Well if we had population size success ratio then Fiji would be the world champions followed by Samoa. However sports is not judged by that....it is simply judged by the winners and the losers.

Ireland could go on about how they do quite well against the AB&#39;s despite their population....but they still lost...NZ could go on about how they beat the British Lions....but really no one cares about the population in the end...all they care about is the final score.



Back on topic.....



If money was not the issue then Kelleher would not have moved up north. No NZ player goes to play NH rugby because they want harder competition. They go for the money. When Dan Carter goes up north it is for the money...though the NZRFU is saying it is because he needs a "sabbatical"....there is no hint that says he is going there to toughen himself up because NZ rugby is not doing it for his playing levels.



There have been NH players who talk about wanting to play in NZ but alas..the money here really does suck majorly lol!

mark_shaw
11-06-08, 08:31 AM
i mean dont get me wrong. i dont want to be narrow minding, but i have played rugby in both hemispheres. and the rugby up there is just a little simple for my liking. sure you might win the odd game against us. but everyone loses. youtube super 14 greatest trys V europes. make ya own mind up. go the under 20s. hammerd ireland today aswell and played f***n well!

sanzar
11-06-08, 10:32 AM
Anyway, allow me to fill you in. The best school teams come from the Public Schools. They hire ex-army or Royal Marine Commando guys to be the PE or PT teachers and thus the coaches. Those schools spend their weekends (remember, these are mostly boarding schools) running up hills with bags of rocks on their backs, doing intense cardio work and generally beating the team into a high level of fitness upon which they then go hard into rugby training. These guys are usually where the future England stars come from traditionally.

The competetiveness goes usually beyond hiring ex-millitary to do the training. Theres lots of psychological elements. For example, they&#39;ll introduce visiting teams to the "field" they&#39;ll be playing on. Here, the team have purposely spead broken glass, shrredded coke cans and other sharp and nasty stuff across the field. Obviously, they move to the real pitch (free of anything sharp) but its that first impression which scares the crap out of the visiting team.
[/b]
****! We have some nut bag rich rugby schools in Aus (notably Kings and Joeys - who both have their own bloody rowing teams + 12 rugyb fields etc), but nothing as psychotic as that... Maybe that&#39;s why England haven&#39;t been awefully successful though? I still remember the dismal failure of the massively militant approach of the 2003 Springboks (players being forced to crawl through jungle naked and at gunpoint etc), which in the aftermath was seen as a cause of widespread burnout and disinterest in the springbok camp.

claytonkp
07-07-08, 10:50 AM
totally agree the new laws **** me off i dont like rugby league and thats what union is becoming.

candybum
07-07-08, 11:05 AM
No its not ya marnus

KZNSharksFan
07-07-08, 11:46 AM
No its not ya marnus
[/b]

Hahahaha! Don&#39;t drink and drive(kiwi joke)

Anyway, the standard of rugby in SH is better than in the NH, basically because I say so. As proof of this watch how Butch James and Victor Matfield played against the AB&#39;s-They were pure arse. I know they had to play with new rules, but *****, how mentally challenging can it be to stand 10 metres back at the scrum???

Prestwick
07-07-08, 02:05 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Anyway, allow me to fill you in. The best school teams come from the Public Schools. They hire ex-army or Royal Marine Commando guys to be the PE or PT teachers and thus the coaches. Those schools spend their weekends (remember, these are mostly boarding schools) running up hills with bags of rocks on their backs, doing intense cardio work and generally beating the team into a high level of fitness upon which they then go hard into rugby training. These guys are usually where the future England stars come from traditionally.

The competetiveness goes usually beyond hiring ex-millitary to do the training. Theres lots of psychological elements. For example, they&#39;ll introduce visiting teams to the "field" they&#39;ll be playing on. Here, the team have purposely spead broken glass, shrredded coke cans and other sharp and nasty stuff across the field. Obviously, they move to the real pitch (free of anything sharp) but its that first impression which scares the crap out of the visiting team.
[/b]
****! We have some nut bag rich rugby schools in Aus (notably Kings and Joeys - who both have their own bloody rowing teams + 12 rugyb fields etc), but nothing as psychotic as that... Maybe that&#39;s why England haven&#39;t been awefully successful though? I still remember the dismal failure of the massively militant approach of the 2003 Springboks (players being forced to crawl through jungle naked and at gunpoint etc), which in the aftermath was seen as a cause of widespread burnout and disinterest in the springbok camp.
[/b][/quote]

Well, there is a distinct difference from sending the England team for a nice weekend with the 42 Commando or 3 Para and the South Africans sending them to what was essentially a Recces death camp. We tend to use the forces to observe how a team functions, team building exercises and so on, they don&#39;t really stray far from your average exercise area. In any case, what happened to the Boks in 2003 would be illeigal in the UK under health & safety legislation.

I think the major downfall is that while these guys are in the right shape and frame of mind, there just isn&#39;t the intensive teaching of basic skills.

DonBilly
08-07-08, 10:22 PM
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.
[/b]

UK has a bit more than 60 millions people, 52 miillions of them must be English.

Prestwick
09-07-08, 07:33 PM
France meanwhile have 500 million people: 10 million real people and 490 made up names created to defraud the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).

cyRil
09-07-08, 08:34 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.
[/b]

UK has a bit more than 60 millions people, 52 miillions of them must be English.
[/b][/quote]
3 million in Wales, 6 million in Scotland, 1 million in NI. More, but not by much!!

DonBilly
10-07-08, 02:44 AM
France meanwhile have 500 million people: 10 million real people and 490 made up names created to defraud the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). [/b]

Officially there are 64 million people in France. If the farmers managed to declare 436 millions fake persons to the EU commission this would show the Brussels guys don&#39;t travel that much...



<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.
[/b]

UK has a bit more than 60 millions people, 52 miillions of them must be English.
[/b][/quote]
3 million in Wales, 6 million in Scotland, 1 million in NI. More, but not by much!!
[/b][/quote]

And what about the 1 million Poles?

Prestwick
10-07-08, 03:57 AM
<div class='quotemain'> France meanwhile have 500 million people: 10 million real people and 490 made up names created to defraud the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). [/b]

Officially there are 64 million people in France. If the farmers managed to declare 436 millions fake persons to the EU commission this would show the Brussels guys don&#39;t travel that much...
[/b][/quote]

Of course they do, its just that they can&#39;t see that much from that business class seat whisking them back to their Euro-parliament constituency/luxurious 2nd home apart from nice French countryside.

Incredible Schalk
25-08-08, 12:19 PM
Its just above 5 million in Scotland.

monkeypigeon
18-09-08, 03:10 PM
Stop with population demographics. Them Southern Hemi people are right it makes no great difference. It all goes down to who has the best development system. And it&#39;s clearly done better down under.

Now back to the point. We&#39;ve never seen a Super 14&#39;s team play a HCup team and we probably won&#39;t for quite a while though the idea siunds most delightful. Take four from each hemi and have a quick tourny over two to three weeks (straight into knock out rounds) and see what happens. But it won&#39;t happen.

DonBilly
18-09-08, 03:20 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 18 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=348584')</div>
Now back to the point. We&#39;ve never seen a Super 14&#39;s team play a HCup team and we probably won&#39;t for quite a while though the idea siunds most delightful. Take four from each hemi and have a quick tourny over two to three weeks (straight into knock out rounds) and see what happens. But it won&#39;t happen.[/b]

It happened once, Brive (H-cup winners in 1997) played the Auckland Blues who had won the then Super12, they were dominated and lost by more than 20 points as far as I remember.

<div align='center'>http://homepages.nat.fr/~jroca/brive_auckland2.jpg</div>

bates
18-09-08, 03:27 PM
Well, you can&#39;t compare both leagueges with eachother.

If I&#39;m not mistaken, in NZ teams have own youthplayers from their surrounding regions, 95% of the kids play rugby inNZ so there&#39;s a lot of competetion going on there to get into a team and stay in the team. In Europe rugby is a growning sport were Soccer still is the unbeatable n°1.

So it all starts at the beginning, I reckon there are more kids in the UK, Europe who have more technique in soccer than in the SH and the same goes for rugby ( but then the other way around)

It&#39;s a matter of interest.

O'Rothlain
18-09-08, 03:44 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jul 9 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=332842')</div>
And what about the 1 million Poles?[/b]
Yeah, is there some sort of commission to take back Britain and Ireland? I swear there were no English People in London. Dublin is headed there, which I imagine will slowly kill the American Tourism industry, "We went to Ireland to connect to our roots and all we got were Eastern Europeans who couldn&#39;t tell us where to buy a Claddagh ring."

Gay-Guy
18-09-08, 11:42 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Sep 19 2008, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=348586')</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 18 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=348584')
Now back to the point. We&#39;ve never seen a Super 14&#39;s team play a HCup team and we probably won&#39;t for quite a while though the idea siunds most delightful. Take four from each hemi and have a quick tourny over two to three weeks (straight into knock out rounds) and see what happens. But it won&#39;t happen.[/b]

It happened once, Brive (H-cup winners in 1997) played the Auckland Blues who had won the then Super12, they were dominated and lost by more than 20 points as far as I remember.

<div align='center'>http://homepages.nat.fr/~jroca/brive_auckland2.jpg</div>

[/b][/quote]
47 - 11 was the score. Feb 22 1997

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
"It was like spending 80 minutes in a washing machine," Brive&#39;s captain, Alain Penaud, said after the New Zealand side ran in six tries to one.
"It was like being run over by a bus a hundred times."
"The 101st time, the tackling gets a bit clumsy."[/b]

The Blues were bnrought back to earth very quickly the next week when they started the S12 by managing a draw against the Bulls.

Steve-o
19-09-08, 08:35 AM
Lol! A washmachine?
Interesting choice of words

Gay-Guy
19-09-08, 09:41 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Sep 19 2008, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=348753')</div>
Lol! A washmachine?
Interesting choice of words[/b]
One thing I have noticed about the French is that they are very gracious in defeat and give lots of superlatives to describe their conquerors.

Prestwick
19-09-08, 12:06 PM
I šaw the Moštar Bridge yešterday and it made me think...


...čan&#39;t we all get along? :(

(I&#39;d write more but this kezboard requirey a PHD to use...see zou all next week or something!)

O'Rothlain
19-09-08, 03:14 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Sep 19 2008, 06:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=348842')</div>
I šaw the Moštar Bridge yešterday and it made me think...


...čan&#39;t we all get along? :(

(I&#39;d write more but this kezboard requirey a PHD to use...see zou all next week or something!)[/b]
Have you just gone all polish on us?

Charles
19-09-08, 03:21 PM
Nah, evebody goes to Ex-Yugoslavia these days (esp Croatia)...have a nice trip Pres...

Prestwick
19-09-08, 05:31 PM
Yeah, I&#39;m in the former Yugoslavia.

Mostar yesterday, Sarajevo today. Went to the heights overlooking and saw through the aid of binoculars the ability of man to have the power of life and death, of god, gentleman.

Needless to say, it was quite moving, even more to see the inhabitants of both cities carry on with it all with a sense of confidence and optimism that is fundementally humbling.

Very emotional day, lads.

alexrugby
19-09-08, 05:53 PM
And is this because numerous SH players play in NH leagues?

RC
30-10-08, 06:21 PM
But Northern Hemisphere rugby is better than Southern Hemisphere rugby.

DanCarterite
23-11-08, 05:12 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jun 11 2008, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=327719')</div>
The third, final and lowest tier are the Comprehensives. These are the schools who barely manage to get an XV together, let alone more. Training is done by PE Teachers without much clue as to rugby and usually rely on partnerships with the local GP club (Saracens for example have coaching programs with many Schools in Herts & Essex to actually teach the PE teachers actually how to coach Rugby to the pupils). Also, at Comprehensive level, rugby has to compete with football. During the winter, you can&#39;t play on the fields during lunchtime so you play football in the playground. During the Summer, you play football on the fields. The only time when these guys get to even touch a rugby ball is during the winter during PE or if they go and join a local rugby club.[/b]

Beg to differ on the comprehensive being the lowest tier old chap!

Probably generally correct but my comprehensive was a tad different, one of our PE teachers was Dave Alread, who went on to be Englands kicking coach, we had a couple of really good Welsh PE teachers too, and we did regularly win the Southwest regional finals.

Gay-Guy
23-11-08, 10:05 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Apr 26 2008, 02:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=317446')</div>
He also identifies the key difference between the seasons in the two hemispheres. "Southern hemisphere rugby is a hundred-metre sprint, whereas northern hemisphere rugby, especially in France, is a marathon. The skill levels and execution have been poor in the Super 14 this season. Quite clearly, northern hemisphere teams have been playing much better rugby."

Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article3779821.ece)[/b]
I swear it is the other way around. What is Kelleher talking about?*The 3 teams to play the AB&#39;s so far went guns out all blazing in the first half and then ran out of puff in the second. *While NZ played it like THEY were running a marathon with steady play and only picking it up near the end. *Also if any team looked like they were playing like its a 100 metre sprint it was France this weekend. *They would have done better if they had calmed down and not tried to score every time they had the ball from a ruck. *Patience would have won them the game...especially since the Wallabies were playing jittery rugby.

nam97
23-11-08, 10:10 AM
f*** me, how much weight has Kelleher put on since going up north? He looks like a fat slob these days, I&#39;m surprised he was rated the best player in the Top 14 last season. He was nothing short of average in the Super 14 and I reckon he was lucky to make the All Blacks last year. He&#39;d be 3rd (at best) in the pecking order if he came back to NZ.

Gay-Guy
23-11-08, 11:13 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wairarapa_cullen @ Nov 23 2008, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=362409')</div>
f*** me, how much weight has Kelleher put on since going up north? He looks like a fat slob these days[/b]
Well it seems he got paid well...good on him ;)

Prestwick
23-11-08, 12:53 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wairarapa_cullen @ Nov 23 2008, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=362409')</div>
f*** me, how much weight has Kelleher put on since going up north? He looks like a fat slob these days, I&#39;m surprised he was rated the best player in the Top 14 last season. He was nothing short of average in the Super 14 and I reckon he was lucky to make the All Blacks last year. He&#39;d be 3rd (at best) in the pecking order if he came back to NZ.[/b]

Knowing Stade Tolouse&#39;s somewhat dubious and frankly bemusing ways of picking and buying players, I&#39;m honestly not surprised.

Simply put, one of most financially powerful clubs in France (if not Europe) and..well..their buying policy leaves a bit to be desired ;)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gay-Guy @ Nov 23 2008, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=362408')</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Apr 26 2008, 02:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=317446')
He also identifies the key difference between the seasons in the two hemispheres. "Southern hemisphere rugby is a hundred-metre sprint, whereas northern hemisphere rugby, especially in France, is a marathon. The skill levels and execution have been poor in the Super 14 this season. Quite clearly, northern hemisphere teams have been playing much better rugby."

Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article3779821.ece)[/b]
I swear it is the other way around. What is Kelleher talking about? The 3 teams to play the AB&#39;s so far went guns out all blazing in the first half and then ran out of puff in the second. While NZ played it like THEY were running a marathon with steady play and only picking it up near the end. Also if any team looked like they were playing like its a 100 metre sprint it was France this weekend. They would have done better if they had calmed down and not tried to score every time they had the ball from a ruck. Patience would have won them the game...especially since the Wallabies were playing jittery rugby.
[/b][/quote]

I think he was talking about Club Rugby. Livremont is trying something which appears to be a completely hyperactive form of Rugby and is something completely different to what most Top 14 teams are coaching their players.

What Kelleher was referring to was the fact that the season in the NH is a marathon, you&#39;ve got your league, your domestic trophy, the Heineken Cup/Heine-kiddy cup and then, if you&#39;re good enough, you have your International Rugby.

Going all out, week in and week out will mean you&#39;ll end up with 15 exhausted players come the vital crunch games in January for the Heineken Cup. Things have to be paced for a much longer period of time.

International rugby, with players from different clubs who usually play different styles trying to unite under a single, national coach to play one distinct style at a far higher level of intensity is different.

Can the NH players hack it at International Level? No, I don&#39;t think they can.

Can a club hack it against an International Team? As Munster vs the ABs proved, yes, yes you can.