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An Tarbh
07-05-08, 09:15 AM
So with a little over 2 weeks to go to the showpiece event in the European club game who will take the ultimate honour at the Millennium Stadium.

It certainly is the fitting final as both teams have come through their respective pools of death and both won away from home in the knockout stages.

So who's it to be?

Vambo
07-05-08, 10:10 AM
Come on Toulouse :cheers:

peppers07
07-05-08, 10:35 AM
In the London Irish match Yanick jouzion missed a shocking amount of tackles so if Munster run Mafi and Tipoki at him they should get a good few brakes . Heymans also looked pretty shaky on defense. Defensively for Munster the agressive defending of Mafi Tipoki and Howlet will be crucial. Munster should dominate Toulouse up front and win a few turnovers and then they can lanch quick counter atacks taking advantage of Toulouses weak defense

cristihendrix
07-05-08, 10:38 AM
Well, I'm to much of a Ronan O'Gara fan to rout for the Frenchies.

Go Munster!

shazbooger
07-05-08, 06:23 PM
I'm not sure to be honest. If any team can beat Toulouse it's Munster.
I think the crowd will be a factor, and Kidney's last game should also work in Munster's favour.
Outside of that there is **** all to seperate them. I'm going for Munster.

An Tarbh
07-05-08, 06:35 PM
In the London Irish match Yanick jouzion missed a shocking amount of tackles so if Munster run Mafi and Tipoki at him they should get a good few brakes . Heymans also looked pretty shaky on defense. Defensively for Munster the agressive defending of Mafi Tipoki and Howlet will be crucial. Munster should dominate Toulouse up front and win a few turnovers and then they can lanch quick counter atacks taking advantage of Toulouses weak defense
[/b]

I think you're being a bit dismissive of the Toulouse pack there, bare in mind Munster didn't have it all their own way against Saracens and no offense to them but I think it's a step up against Toulouse. I still think Munster are capable of putting in the performance but they're going to need a massive improvement on the semi-final performance.

danny
07-05-08, 07:18 PM
I can see Toulouse winning by 10-15 points. I just think that the forwards will be a match for Munster and then its up to the most dangerous back-line in Europe to produce the goods against a fine defensive Munster backline( no disrespect to their backs but defensively Munster are excellent). Munsters biggest chance is to soak up the pressure and hope that the fragile French temperament breaks under the weight of expectancy. Stick by my prediction though. Should be a good day out for the "fairweather" Munster fans!

Stillknox
07-05-08, 07:49 PM
Toulouse pack are pretty strong this year. Sowerby, Albacete and even Kelleher at scrum half have brought more stability and quality to this team. The defense was catastrophic against the Irish, but they were burned after some injuries and a tough game against Clermont...

Toulouse will certainly make some turnovers until the final to bring a fresher team. But I think it will be a very close game. Toulouse seems to have a strong mental, they are always able to be back in the game after some blows. But if they miss as much tries opportunities as against the Irish, Munster will be remorless and win the game.

Charles
07-05-08, 07:51 PM
Yeah, we all know about Toulouse backs, but their pack is not made of rubber either. Servat is in good form, Hasan or Perugini are very good, Albacete and Pelous are having the season of their lives. And they got 4 loosies: Sowerby Nyanga Dusautoir Kelleher :blink: .

Guy Noves will have them red hot for the occasion, plus I think Byron will be on fire. First season in NH in the greatest club in the World, HC final....
It will be close but on the paper Munster pack is not THAT superior.

Cymro
07-05-08, 10:00 PM
Im split on this ... I hate Munster and I hate Tolouse,

But I want a Mangers Laeague Team to win it but I honestly dislike Munster

oh the confusion!

O'Rothlain
08-05-08, 07:55 AM
Munster.
They Have John Hayes....
How can they lose?
:D
He's my favourite!
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/images/content/john-hayes(1).jpg

peppers07
08-05-08, 10:25 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
In the London Irish match Yanick jouzion missed a shocking amount of tackles so if Munster run Mafi and Tipoki at him they should get a good few brakes . Heymans also looked pretty shaky on defense. Defensively for Munster the agressive defending of Mafi Tipoki and Howlet will be crucial. Munster should dominate Toulouse up front and win a few turnovers and then they can lanch quick counter atacks taking advantage of Toulouses weak defense
[/b]

I think you&#39;re being a bit dismissive of the Toulouse pack there, bare in mind Munster didn&#39;t have it all their own way against Saracens and no offense to them but I think it&#39;s a step up against Toulouse. I still think Munster are capable of putting in the performance but they&#39;re going to need a massive improvement on the semi-final performance.
[/b][/quote]


On paper Toulouse pack is almost as good as munster but has any one noticed how almost the same pack is only average for Ireland and unreal for Munster so you cant really look at on paper. In terms of how good the players in the toulouse pack are I would say they have almost as good a pack (you could say better)but im not looking at it on paper .

I reckon Toulouse will score one maybe two spectacular tries but for most of the match Munsters defence should be on top. Weather Munster will actually score more points im not sure. I voted for Munster to win the poll but that is because im hopefull I really cant call it. Lets Just hope Jouzion keeps missing the tackles

Also would people stop saying Munster performance against the Saracans was crap thats an insult to the Saracans who played unreal. Only some aspects of the porformance were crap. Considering how little ball they had they defended class and when they did get the ball dispite **** passes from O Leary and O Gara the atacked well

An Tarbh
08-05-08, 11:07 AM
Well firstly there&#39;s a bit of a difference between international level and Heineken Cup level, I don&#39;t think given the choice that Noves would have many of the Munster players in his pack, O&#39;Connell and Leamy would be just about it. Collectively they do well as a unit but weaknessess have continued to be exposed this season, the lineout isn&#39;t infallible and the scrum was a shambles against Saracens, both are areas where Toulouse could cause Munster serious problems unless Munster are right at the peak of their performances which they&#39;re going to need to be.

Saying Munster played crap isn&#39;t an insult to Saracens in my opinion, the set piece was poor and both O&#39;Gara and O&#39;Leary were woeful as well, if that happens against Toulouse, which I don&#39;t think it will, then it&#39;ll be an easy win for them.

If Toulouse do get 1 or 2 tries they&#39;ll be well set for victory no doubt aided by the penalty machines in the Munster pack.

erwanseb
08-05-08, 11:26 AM
The main issue for Toulouse will be going though the remaining fixtures of the top 14 without injuries.

An injury to Jauzion, Kelleher or Albacete would seriously undermine their chance.

An injury free Toulouse should win.

peppers07
08-05-08, 11:27 AM
Well firstly there&#39;s a bit of a difference between international level and Heineken Cup level, I don&#39;t think given the choice that Noves would have many of the Munster players in his pack, O&#39;Connell and Leamy would be just about it. Collectively they do well as a unit but weaknessess have continued to be exposed this season, the lineout isn&#39;t infallible and the scrum was a shambles against Saracens, both are areas where Toulouse could cause Munster serious problems unless Munster are right at the peak of their performances which they&#39;re going to need to be.

Saying Munster played crap isn&#39;t an insult to Saracens in my opinion, the set piece was poor and both O&#39;Gara and O&#39;Leary were woeful as well, if that happens against Toulouse, which I don&#39;t think it will, then it&#39;ll be an easy win for them.

If Toulouse do get 1 or 2 tries they&#39;ll be well set for victory no doubt aided by the penalty machines in the Munster pack.
[/b]

I dont think theres that much diference between Heineken cup and international level once you get the qaurter finals or if your in a pool of death.
I only said they were good in some areas against Saracans. I agree the set peice was a shambles and O Gara and O Leary were bad but i doubt they will repeat that performance against Toulouse. Munster have shown that their lineout can be world class against Wasps for example.
As for the scrum i think the Toulouse scrum isnt exactly unreal either. Also if the Toulouse defense is like it was against London Irish (wich im not saying it will be) and Munster take their chances they should get on or two trys as well.

EvanM
09-05-08, 12:54 PM
Go Toulouse !!!!
I think, Toulouse can win !!!

peppers07
09-05-08, 01:00 PM
I hope Tiomas O Leary is given another chance after his poor performance aghainst Saracans because Stringer is crap

An Tarbh
09-05-08, 01:19 PM
I hope Tiomas O Leary is given another chance after his poor performance aghainst Saracans because Stringer is crap
[/b]

He&#39;ll certainly have to impress in the Glasgow game, that&#39;s if he even starts.

shtove
09-05-08, 10:40 PM
Toulouse are favourites, but it&#39;s not clear.

Both sides have defensive weakness in midfield. And Heymans needs to do a lot better - which he can.

Battle in the forwards could go either way.

But Munster are the only team in Irish history who don&#39;t give two fcuks about the French ... or anyone else.

Therefore Munster will win. Simple as. :P

danny
09-05-08, 11:45 PM
Please beat Munster Toulouse so we dont have to see any more stupid,****** up ***** running onto the field at the end of anymore games.

Haysie
10-05-08, 07:19 AM
What time is it on at? I&#39;ll definitely be watching! Bought Setanta Sports specifically for NH rugby :D

peppers07
11-05-08, 06:59 PM
What time is it on at? I&#39;ll definitely be watching! Bought Setanta Sports specifically for NH rugby :D
[/b]

Sorry but all the heneken cup is on sky sports not setanta

el_tk
11-05-08, 10:05 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
What time is it on at? I&#39;ll definitely be watching! Bought Setanta Sports specifically for NH rugby :D
[/b]

Sorry but all the heneken cup is on sky sports not setanta [/b][/quote]

Depends what country you&#39;re in mate

Col
13-05-08, 12:00 AM
What time is it on at? I&#39;ll definitely be watching! Bought Setanta Sports specifically for NH rugby :D
[/b]

Premiership & European Cup are on Sky Sports. I&#39;ve had Setanta Sports for a month hoping to catch a few Magners League matches but very few are broadcast as far as I can tell.

*edit* at least in the UK version of Setanta Sports.

As for the match... Toulouse win if you compare #1 v #1 through to #15 v #15 hands down, injuries aside, however they&#39;re French and have to travel to Cardiff, plus Munster have a team spirit, a defiance of all that they face & resiliance second to none. If O&#39;Gara kicks well, Munster will win IMHO through sheer guts & united cohesion.

M Two One
18-05-08, 08:11 PM
No doubt that it will be Toulouse with yet another title.

StevoIRL
21-05-08, 06:15 PM
Toulouse should just win but it ll be a close one

camelback
23-05-08, 06:55 AM
Go Munster Go ! Because if you don&#39;t win, we&#39;ll hear here in France for 10 years that Toulouse is the best team ever in the universe and more....

I Bleed Black
23-05-08, 08:30 AM
Who is going to the game in Cardiff? St Webby, Prestwick and I will be there so if anyone wants to catch up for a beer before or after let me know.

Gonna be a cracker - And at the Millenium Stadium too - Wicked!

Sir Speedy
23-05-08, 12:24 PM
Toulouse XV:
Heymans; Médard, Jauzion, Kunavore, Donguy, Elissalde, Kelleher ; Dusautoir, Sowerby, Bouilhou, Albacete, Pelous (capt); Perugini, Servat, Human.
Replacements:
Hasan, Poux, Vernet-Basualdo, Millo-Chluski, Lamboley, Nyanga, Courrent, Ahotaeiloa, Fritz

Munster XV:
D Hurley; D Howlett, L Mafi, R Tipoki, I Dowling; R O&#39;Gara, T O&#39;Leary; M Horan, J Flannery, J Hayes; D O&#39;Callaghan, P O&#39;Connell (capt); A Quinlan, D Wallace, D Leamy
Replacements:
F Sheahan, T Buckley, M O&#39;Driscoll, D Ryan, P Stringer, P Warwick, K Earls

ALLEZ TOULOUSE!

danny
23-05-08, 04:15 PM
The two best teams in Europe slugging it out. This is rugby nirvana. Good luck to both sets of players as they deserve real praise for getting this far. My bet is Toulouse a I feel they have the pack to match the Munster eight and if they are on song they will always score plenty of tries. There are superb battles all over the park from the front row through to the wings. I imagine the Munster scrum will come in for a stern examination by the Toulouse front row and that could set the tone for the match. My prediction Toulouse by 10 points.

cacamou
24-05-08, 07:08 AM
toulouse will win for sure !!
check out for Jauzion and Medard and heymans
this will be a good game

and.. munster&#39;s pack is not stronger than toulouse&#39;s. toulouse have a very experienced pack

elgringoborracho
24-05-08, 11:49 AM
I can&#39;t wait for it this is gonna be legen... wait for it !

DARY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rambler86
24-05-08, 12:24 PM
Hi!

In the poll I voted for Touluse, because this team has a incredible group of backs, that could win by themselves the match; moreover in the stade Toulousain plays Totò Perugini, a great Italian Prop.
Anyway Munster in always a great team, with a pack very strong.
I hope to see the match on Tv.

Allez Touluse!

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 02:24 PM
I think these two teams make up a dream final. They are both the best teams in Europe and I expect the game to be a classic if both sides fire on all cylinders!

MunsterMan
24-05-08, 03:03 PM
GWAN MUNSTER

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 04:53 PM
10 - 6 at half-time to Munster.

Try to Leamy, Con O&#39;Gara, Pen O&#39;Gara.

Pen Ellisalde, DG Ellisalde


It&#39;s pretty close at the moment. Ellisalde has missed a drop-goal and a penalty, whereas Denis Leamy missed a try by knocking it on over the line.

Can&#39;t wait for the second half, should be great. :D

Allez les Rouges!

portland18
24-05-08, 04:54 PM
Go Toulouse !!!!
I think, Toulouse can win !!! [/b]

Me too, here is hoping for a good close game too

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 05:17 PM
A yellow card for Pelous for this so violent kick in the ass is it really bull****

but Thanks Donghi

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 05:20 PM
Wow, absolutely forking brilliant try. C&#39;mon Toulouse! 13 - 13

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 05:33 PM
Ellisalde&#39;s missed kicks are looking even more important now... 16 - 13 to Munster - O&#39;Gara pen kick.
And O&#39;Crack-Up has been charged down for the second time. He&#39;s been really lucky this game!

Oooo ooooo, I see what&#39;s happening here; Munster are planning to kill the game for the next 13 minutes...

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 05:46 PM
It looks like playing against the English team...

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 05:51 PM
Pfft, well congratulations Munster. I won&#39;t say any more.

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 06:00 PM
Don&#39;t see the interest to integrate SH players to play this game

Sorry, I might look like a bad looser, but Munster doesn&#39;t deserve this win.
I Won&#39;t judge the style, it would be laughable, but particulary things around rucks that have been judged for TLS as Munster did what they want...

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 06:15 PM
I lied, I will say more. Looking back now, Munster got very lucky. On numerous occasions they just pulled the ball to their side after a Toulouse ruck had been formed, and that &#39;penalty&#39; and sin binning against Pelous was laughable and it won Munster the game in the end.
If it&#39;s any consolation, Toulouse scored a try that Munster couldn&#39;t dream of scoring. Clerc being out was also a key factor, O&#39;Gara constantly marked the winger who had replaced him and he was nervous all night. I wonder whether Skrela coming next season will be a good thing, as Kelleher had a mare early on, so perhaps JBS can go scrum-half and Skrela fly-half. Then again, scratch that, there&#39;s no way Kelleher could ever play as bad as Skrela.
/rant.

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 06:38 PM
I can read many comments on french forums about Ellissalde&#39;s decision to kick when he was a meter from the touchline, the difference is not here.

I can remind how often the referee was shouting "leave it red" so quickly after every black ruck, but never heard so much reactions whem they were red.
Never saw the ball given to TLS despite they moved forward on rucks, with the ball in (finest achievement Ellissalde pulling out the ball on it&#39;s touchline, and a blackscrum to come)
Who I especially appreciated in TLS: Jauzion and Bouillou, excellent in the air, Heyman&#39;s of course but also Donghi who was brilliant facing Howlett. Kelleher, even if he was less performant than in the laests matches, is indispensable in defense.

Cymro
24-05-08, 06:38 PM
I lied, I will say more. Looking back now, Munster got very lucky. On numerous occasions they just pulled the ball to their side after a Toulouse ruck had been formed, and that &#39;penalty&#39; and sin binning against Pelous was laughable and it won Munster the game in the end.
If it&#39;s any consolation, Toulouse scored a try that Munster couldn&#39;t dream of scoring. Clerc being out was also a key factor, O&#39;Gara constantly marked the winger who had replaced him and he was nervous all night. I wonder whether Skrela coming next season will be a good thing, as Kelleher had a mare early on, so perhaps JBS can go scrum-half and Skrela fly-half. Then again, scratch that, there&#39;s no way Kelleher could ever play as bad as Skrela.
/rant. [/b]

*Netural View at the game!

Pretty much agreed. It was a typical performance from France (or French club, they only show up when they want!!!) Munster played a game that suited Tolouse for a period. I could not understand why they started kicking the ball and then kept on doing it all day.
I was annoyed before getting into this game today! I hope no Munster fan take this to heart but I have to say the few I came across were a bunch of selfish idiots (oh the harshness) and far away from the Irish people Ive met in the past. I have to admit that the fans I were sitting around were rude and once again selfish! If you are told to sit down then you do so not ignore people and stewards who tell you to do so, SIT DOWN! Also a few fans did not have a clue about rugby and were shouting poor and I mean poor abuse to the ref. Voice your opinion but do it when the decision is actually wrong! Also when moving out of the seats it&#39;s ok for you to move but when I had to move to stretch my legs out and then get a mouthful for doing so by leaving my seat is so BLOODY ANNOYING!
Pelous sin binning was a funny one, striking out against an opponent is a card offence but Quinlan&#39;s dramatics made it worse. This is not football my son! If you want to start acting and throwing some stupid moves out there go elsewhere, there is no need for it in this game!
Munster did dominate possession and did the job. It was not attractive and it did make the game very boring. But not every game can be spectacular. But I did find Munster&#39;s negativity had played a part in a very boring game. Especially when they started to close the game out. I just hoped that what happened against the Blue did not occur again!
Rucks were an interesting issue for me. I felt big Nige did a reasonable job here but he could have thrown a few penalties in on both sides but Munster were constantly handling in the ruck! BUT if the ref don&#39;t spot it then its fair game!
TMO did a great job in not awarding the try, he could have easily given it and did not, he clearly dropped the ball. Again the crowd&#39;s reaction was just funny becasue it was just like listening to little moaning baby!
The try scored by Tolouse was against the run of the Munster tide. Time after time Tolouse were holding them out and doing a decent job in defending but Munster kept on pilling the pressure. But the try was a good one, some lovely play and I have to admitt it silenced the Munster crowd! For a period!
I may sound bitter but I do want to congratulate Munster on their victory!

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 06:54 PM
I felt big Nige did a reasonable job here but he could have thrown a few penalties in on both sides but Munster were constantly handling in the ruck! BUT if the ref don&#39;t spot it then its fair game!
TMO did a great job in not awarding the try, he could have easily given it and did not, he clearly dropped the ball. Again the crowd&#39;s reaction was just funny becasue it was just like listening to little moaning baby!

[/b]

This is doubly inexcusable from this ref who already judged Munster&#39;s H cup quarter and semi-finals !!! (here again, quite a special nomination, is the arbitral corps missing so much men ?)

I do not accept the refused try can&#39;t be considered as a compensation, as you can watch it on and on, in slow motion or accelerate, it is not a try (Accepting it would have been the cherry on the cake)

shazbooger
24-05-08, 07:00 PM
Sorry, I might look like a bad looser, but Munster doesn&#39;t deserve this win. [/b] Did Toulouse actually look like scoring themselves at all during this match? One excellent try on the counter but I&#39;m struggling to remember one moment of concerted Toulouse pressure after the opening 20 mins.

Munster did everything they had to do to win. They had complete control of the ball and given that Toulouse spent all day on the wrong side you can hardly expect Muster to come roaring our with an expansive game. As it was the Toulouse pack was dominated all day, their lineout was shakey, they were turned over in one or two scrums at crucial times, and their back row was completely and utterly dominated. The were hammered in the turnover count, and gave away a lot of stupid penalties despite continous warnings from the referee.

Yes, the Pelous yellow was severe but the penalty was not. It did not however win Munster the game, their was a four point swing in Toulouses favour during that 10 mins.

The fact remains that Munster came out of the hardest group in the tournament, they were away from home in both the quarters and the semis, and here today they won. It was fugly but dont go harping on about how fantastic Toulouse were. They didnt exactly bring an expansive game either. Heymans aside they looked less threatening then Munster did for the entire match.


This is doubly inexcusable from this ref who already judged Munster&#39;s H cup quarter and semi-finals !!! (here again, quite a special nomination, is the arbitral corps missing so much men ?) [/b] And the penalty count went against them on both occasions, Munster didnt want him reffing this match either.

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 07:11 PM
1) Did Toulouse actually look like scoring themselves at all during this match? One excellent try on the counter but I&#39;m struggling to remember one moment of concerted Toulouse pressure after the opening 20 mins.

2) Munster did everything they had to do to win. They had complete control of the ball and given that Toulouse spent all day on the wrong side you can hardly expect Muster to come roaring our with an expansive game. As it was the Toulouse pack was dominated all day, their lineout was shakey, they were turned over in one or two scrums at crucial times, and their back row was completely and utterly dominated. The were hammered in the turnover count, and gave away a lot of stupid penalties despite continous warnings from the referee.

3) Yes, the Pelous yellow was severe but the penalty was not. It did not however win Munster the game, their was a four point swing in Toulouses favour during that 10 mins.
[/b]
1) Yep, after Toulouse&#39;s try where Ellisalde completely squandered the game by kicking a poor kick to the far touchline which was collected easily by Marcus Horan over his tryline. A drop-goal here would have made it even

2) Not to mention they had to rely on Ellisalde missing two kicks, dodgy refereeing around the breakdown and an abysmal decision by the touch-judge in regards to Pelous&#39; yellow-card (See point 3).

3) How can you call that a penalty? It was a soft kick (That would definately not hurt anyone in the slightest, childish indeed, but hardly penalty worthy and Quinlan&#39;s reaction could have easily resulted in a reversed penalty for trying to influence the referee&#39;s decision.

Cymro
24-05-08, 07:12 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
I felt big Nige did a reasonable job here but he could have thrown a few penalties in on both sides but Munster were constantly handling in the ruck! BUT if the ref don&#39;t spot it then its fair game!
TMO did a great job in not awarding the try, he could have easily given it and did not, he clearly dropped the ball. Again the crowd&#39;s reaction was just funny becasue it was just like listening to little moaning baby!

[/b]

This is doubly inexcusable from this ref who already judged Munster&#39;s H cup quarter and semi-finals !!! (here again, quite a special nomination, is the arbitral corps missing so much men ?)

I do not accept the refused try can&#39;t be considered as a compensation, as you can watch it on and on, in slow motion or accelerate, it is not a try (Accepting it would have been the cherry on the cake) [/b][/quote]

Sorry what is wong with Nigel O today? Oh sorry just because he was not French? I beg to pardon but he is rated the current best Northen Hemesphire ref! Even other ref&#39;s say hes one of the best!

Also read what I said about the not given try, cause your response made no sense!

MunsterMan
24-05-08, 07:22 PM
Say what you will but you cannot deny Munster deserved it. Like Logorrhea said, one moment of Individual brilliance aside when did Toulouse look like scoring? Munster never went for a Dropgoal, always for seven points. O&#39;Gara 100% in a HEC final again. Quinlan and O&#39;Connell were immense.

Sad to see Deccie and Williams go but hopefully they will bring the same success to Ireland and Australia

Cúige Mumhan Abú

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 07:32 PM
Say what you will but you cannot deny Munster deserved it. Like Logorrhea said, one moment of Individual brilliance aside when did Toulouse look like scoring?
[/b]
They looked like scoring many times at the beginning of the first half and they were inches from it the second half but as I said earlier, Ellisalde squandered that oppurtunity with a sliced kick across field.
And I can hardly blame Munster not attempting a drop-goal when they were already in the lead with minutes left, that&#39;s just common sense. At the resulting kick-off, Toulouse could&#39;ve regained possession and scored.

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 07:37 PM
The cause I&#39;m deceived is because I&#39;m used to loose against England this way but not facing fighting Irish
The cause I&#39;m angry is because some french team are again penalised (generally the more creative ones) much more easily than their opposant who generally have the interrest to do so (retarding or scratching the ball in rucks, 3rd line not correctly in contact with the scrum,...).

shazbooger
24-05-08, 07:39 PM
How can you call that a penalty? [/b] You cant kick an opponent and not get penalised. Your right, it wasnt nasty, but it was damned stupid. Quinlan is that kind of player. He&#39;s the one everyone loves to hate because he gets right in your face and does everything he can to upset you. Similar to Regan or Back. Home fans love him, away fans hate him. Pelous was just stupid for falling for it.

As for the other two points, youve just blamed the referee, the touch judge, and you referenced one poorly executed crossfield kick. You really think thats why Munster won it?

Oh.................. on a side point. In an interview after the match O&#39;Gara confirmed he was screaming for O&#39;Leary to give him the ball for the drop goal, but it was too loud in the stadium. He actually managed to look ****** off while remembering it.

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 07:54 PM
<div class='quotemain'> How can you call that a penalty? [/b] 1) You cant kick an opponent and not get penalised. Your right, it wasnt nasty, but it was damned stupid. Quinlan is that kind of player. He&#39;s the one everyone loves to hate because he gets right in your face and does everything he can to upset you. Similar to Regan or Back. Home fans love him, away fans hate him. Pelous was just stupid for falling for it.

2) As for the other two points, youve just blamed the referee, the touch judge, and you referenced one poorly executed crossfield kick. You really think thats why Munster won it?

Oh.................. on a side point. In an interview after the match O&#39;Gara confirmed he was screaming for O&#39;Leary to give him the ball for the drop goal, but it was too loud in the stadium. He actually managed to look ****** off while remembering it.
[/b][/quote]
1) Well like I said, Quinlan&#39;s pathetic football&#39;esque reaction could have resulted in a reversed penalty. Whatever the interpretation, is was not a yellow card, and if Toulouse had their captain on the field during the time where Ellisalde kicked the ball away literally on the Munster tryline, I doubt events would have unfolded in Munster&#39;s favour.

2) Yep. Owen&#39;s missed a few things at the breakdown and dismissed Quinlan not binding in the scrums.

The only positive is that these teams made it to the final instead of a bunch of lesser teams fluking their way through in ****-easy pools. At the end of the day, I knew that a controversial decision would decide it in the end; and it did. What&#39;s-his-face&#39;s try was genius and the passion and determination shown by both teams was more than anyone could have asked for. Congratulations Munster, they certainly won it the hard way through that pool and away in two knockout games. Still, I&#39;m backing Toulouse to go all the way next year! JUST YOU WAIT DAMNIT!!! :%#%#: :%#%#: :%#%#:

:(

Mr.cyclopede
24-05-08, 08:01 PM
Oh.................. on a side point. In an interview after the match O&#39;Gara confirmed he was screaming for O&#39;Leary to give him the ball for the drop goal, but it was too loud in the stadium. He actually managed to look ****** off while remembering it.
[/b]

Could have been the last chance for TLS then, as he&#39;d already been blocked twice in the match



Still, I&#39;m backing Toulouse to go all the way next year! JUST YOU WAIT DAMNIT!!! :%#%#: :%#%#: :%#%#: :(
[/b]

Positive point
Michalak is coming back
Negative point
Skrela is coming !!!!

Sir Speedy
24-05-08, 08:03 PM
Skrela is coming !!!!
[/b]
LOCK UP THE CHILDREN! AVERT YOUR EYES!

Cymro
24-05-08, 09:01 PM
Say what you will but you cannot deny Munster deserved it. Like Logorrhea said, one moment of Individual brilliance aside when did Toulouse look like scoring? Munster never went for a Dropgoal, always for seven points. O&#39;Gara 100% in a HEC final again. Quinlan and O&#39;Connell were immense.

Sad to see Deccie and Williams go but hopefully they will bring the same success to Ireland and Australia

Cúige Mumhan Abú [/b]

Of course Munster deserved it ....

But how can you say Tolouse never looked like scoring ... I can count a few times both in the first half and second half when they came close!

shtove
24-05-08, 11:16 PM
Munster were robbed! Two tries disallowed :bleh!:

Thought we were in trouble when we gave away the penalty before half time, but the cute hoor plays came good - we&#39;ve lost too many times to cynical english play not to pick up a few tips and hints.

Kidney&#39;s half time talk: Lads, at the end of the third quarter just grab your opponent by the neck and throttle him for twenty minutes.

Elissalde wasted THE chance with a poor cross kick. After that it was just a question of keeping possession away from Heymans - brilliant player, Toulouse&#39;s only hope. Jauzion was doing his stuff, but nothing from him at the end.

Thought Pelous was playing great, but the kick in the arse was sooooo stupid from an experienced player.

Again my brother said he was off for a **** and didn&#39;t come back for half and hour because he was too nervous to watch the end. And he&#39;s a very serious supporter.

Gay-Guy
25-05-08, 05:21 AM
Munster have beaten the All Blacks.

This victory to a New Zealander comes as no suprise to a club with a great history as clubs such as Munster or Cardiff or Orange Free State are well remembered and respected in All Black infamous folklore.

The average New Zeander rugby fan 10 years ago would have never heard of the Toulouse rugby club.

So with Munster winning their second title in 3 years....yep that would be expected from a New Zealand standpoint....no real surprise at all.

Congratulations. :cheers:

Incredible Schalk
25-05-08, 09:02 AM
Congratulations to the Munster fans on here. I turned the game off after 20 minutes because i found it frustrating, Tolouse at that time showed nothing with ball in hand. I think Munster have deserved the title more this season, they had an incredibly tough group to start then two away games in the quarters and semis.

rambler86
25-05-08, 09:18 AM
Congratulations to Munster that keep alive the Irish Fighting Spirit and deserved the victory. Unfortunately I couldn&#39;t see the match, but yesterday in cardiff there were a great day of rugby.

In other forum I&#39;ve read that Nigel Owens didn&#39;t arbitrate very weel, what do you think about?

Bye! :)

Mr.cyclopede
25-05-08, 09:47 AM
Munster were robbed! Two tries disallowed :bleh!:

[/b]

Irish joke ?????

Sir Speedy
25-05-08, 09:49 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Munster were robbed! Two tries disallowed :bleh!:

[/b]

Irish joke ?????
[/b][/quote]
That&#39;s what they call, &#39;Rubbing salt into the wound.&#39;

danny
25-05-08, 09:55 AM
Munster were by far the better team. They controlled the ball, won the breakdown battle(as usual) and played a very smart game. Toulouse were quite passive throughout and didnt turn up IMO. How any Toulouse fan can complain about the result is simply sour grapes. Well done Munster you are deserving European Champions. Also congratulations to the Millenium stadium security for not allowing any of the Munster idiot contingent on to the field after the game.

Cymro
25-05-08, 10:12 AM
Munster were by far the better team. They controlled the ball, won the breakdown battle(as usual) and played a very smart game. Toulouse were quite passive throughout and didnt turn up IMO. How any Toulouse fan can complain about the result is simply sour grapes. Well done Munster you are deserving European Champions. Also congratulations to the Millenium stadium security for not allowing any of the Munster idiot contingent on to the field after the game. [/b]

One got passed and duly got nailed by the security guard!

Sir Speedy
25-05-08, 10:22 AM
<div class='quotemain'> Munster were by far the better team. They controlled the ball, won the breakdown battle(as usual) and played a very smart game. Toulouse were quite passive throughout and didnt turn up IMO. How any Toulouse fan can complain about the result is simply sour grapes. Well done Munster you are deserving European Champions. Also congratulations to the Millenium stadium security for not allowing any of the Munster idiot contingent on to the field after the game. [/b]

One got passed and duly got nailed by the security guard!
[/b][/quote]
Clothesline style?

http://www.seacoastnrg.org/img/clothesline.jpg

Stillknox
25-05-08, 03:54 PM
Congrats to Munster for being the ugliest H-Champion ever :)

No, seriously they deserved it. This wasn&#39;t spectacular, this was frustrating, boring, all that you want but they played a clever game, doing just what they needed to beat Toulouse. Typical french defeat by the way... some opportunities, a lightning from one of the most enjoyable player in the NH, who can be brilliant or just silly at anytime, but a lack of strategy & &#39;cool head&#39;. Too many mistakes too, in lineout especially.

Elissalde can make illusion against Cardiff or the Irish but he&#39;s not a true fly half. Say want you want, but at least a guy like Skrela can bring his good tactical kicking skills to Toulouse. Especially if he does his special, the backward kick. Michalak, if he recovers his level of two years ago, can be useful too.

PS: I must say I hate the pick and go stuff, especially at 20 minutes of the end of the game... soon we will see 80min of this or what ?

Cymro
25-05-08, 03:59 PM
Congrats to Munster for being the ugliest H-Champion ever :)

No, seriously they deserved it. This wasn&#39;t spectacular, this was frustrating, boring, all that you want but they played a clever game, doing just what they needed to beat Toulouse. Typical french defeat by the way... some opportunities, a lightning from one of the most enjoyable player in the NH, who can be brilliant or just silly at anytime, but a lack of strategy & &#39;cool head&#39;. Too many mistakes too, in lineout especially.

Elissalde can make illusion against Cardiff or the Irish but he&#39;s not a true fly half. Say want you want, but at least a guy like Skrela can bring his good tactical kicking skills to Toulouse. Especially if he does his special, the backward kick. Michalak, if he recovers his level of two years ago, can be useful too.

PS: I must say I hate the pick and go stuff, especially at 20 minutes of the end of the game... soon we will see 80min of this or what ? [/b]

Good post there mate!

The pick and go stuff is not the sexiest thing to watch but it works, again it boars the crap and I did feel once ot twice yesterday Tolouse were not unlucky to be awarded a pen for not realeasing the ball! But this tactic came undone against Cardiff when they started it and came unstuck which lead to a Blues win!

But in all fairness you do what yu need to do to win!

danny
25-05-08, 04:03 PM
Michalak will be more of the same, big talent no head for the big games as he has proved for years. The pick and drive employed by Munster is not really a tactic to condemn as to retain the ball in such a professional manner was a joy to watch. Any decent coach of young players will instill in his charges the importance of good ball protection and Munster won the cup because of it. End of story.

bacon
25-05-08, 04:20 PM
congrats to munster!
thought they deseved it, but JB ellissard(sp?) must be ruing is missed kicks and butchering of their best attacking platform. (the one with the meaningless crossfield in the2nd half)
watch the highlights-good game nice mixture of hard forward graft and sensational back play.

Stillknox
25-05-08, 04:24 PM
Michalak will be more of the same, big talent no head for the big games as he has proved for years. The pick and drive employed by Munster is not really a tactic to condemn as to retain the ball in such a professional manner was a joy to watch. Any decent coach of young players will instill in his charges the importance of good ball protection and Munster won the cup because of it. End of story. [/b]

Sure that the pick and go needs great technical skills, and sometimes it can be entertaining to watch it - for example in the last France/England game, when they scored a try at the last minute. But sometimes it&#39;s just there to kill the game... yesterday Munster has not even tried to score a single dropkick. And to me the fact of diving directly to the grass is opposite to the values of rugby... where is the fighting spirit ?

Concerning Pelous, the yellow card was harsh and Quinlan&#39;s acting ridiculous. But wait, the man has 35 years old, he played 3 World Cups, won 2 H-Cup, has been captain for France and for Toulouse... he must keep his head cool in games like that. Finally, that&#39;s more or less the same debate as the one concerning Zidane&#39;s headbut last year... :rolleyes:

But anyway, Munster deserved it. Even without playing rugby, they nearly scored two more refused try, and the second one was beautiful - Heymans was just burned by Howlett on this one.

danny
25-05-08, 05:04 PM
<div class='quotemain'> Michalak will be more of the same, big talent no head for the big games as he has proved for years. The pick and drive employed by Munster is not really a tactic to condemn as to retain the ball in such a professional manner was a joy to watch. Any decent coach of young players will instill in his charges the importance of good ball protection and Munster won the cup because of it. End of story. [/b]

Sure that the pick and go needs great technical skills, and sometimes it can be entertaining to watch it - for example in the last France/England game, when they scored a try at the last minute. But sometimes it&#39;s just there to kill the game... yesterday Munster has not even tried to score a single dropkick. And to me the fact of diving directly to the grass is opposite to the values of rugby... where is the fighting spirit ?

Concerning Pelous, the yellow card was harsh and Quinlan&#39;s acting ridiculous. But wait, the man has 35 years old, he played 3 World Cups, won 2 H-Cup, has been captain for France and for Toulouse... he must keep his head cool in games like that. Finally, that&#39;s more or less the same debate as the one concerning Zidane&#39;s headbut last year... :rolleyes:

But anyway, Munster deserved it. Even without playing rugby, they nearly scored two more refused try, and the second one was beautiful - Heymans was just burned by Howlett on this one.
[/b][/quote]
The main reason why pick and drive is becoming more and more used when the pressure is on is due to ref`s blowing so early for not releasing. This forces the attacking player to look for contact make a yard without isolating himself from his team-mates. Until the directive on this is changed the pick and drive will remain and probably prosper.

O'Rothlain
25-05-08, 06:59 PM
Well Done, Munster! The forward play during the second half was exceptional. That was the sort of rugby match I love to watch. I can&#39;t believe that some of you found it boring. I mean, I understand, but it was a great day for forwards.
I sort of "borrowed" this youtube clip from rugbydump...
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQC_frrlWUU&rel=0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQC_frrlWUU&rel=0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

danny
25-05-08, 07:16 PM
Well Done, Munster! The forward play during the second half was exceptional. That was the sort of rugby match I love to watch. I can&#39;t believe that some of you found it boring. I mean, I understand, but it was a great day for forwards.
I sort of "borrowed" this youtube clip from rugbydump...
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQC_frrlWUU&rel=0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQC_frrlWUU&rel=0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
[/b]
Im with you as a defender of the art of forward play.O`Connell for President of the United States of America.

Cymro
25-05-08, 08:31 PM
Well Done, Munster! The forward play during the second half was exceptional. That was the sort of rugby match I love to watch. I can&#39;t believe that some of you found it boring. I mean, I understand, but it was a great day for forwards.
I sort of "borrowed" this youtube clip from rugbydump...
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQC_frrlWUU&rel=0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VQC_frrlWUU&rel=0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[/b]

O&#39;Rothlain agree with you, yes it was a masterclass for forwards and it was good to watch in that respect but I paid money to go and watch this game at the stadium and I thought id get a better display for my money. I did find the game boring and it annoys me when a team start to shut out a game like Munster did. But it did show how good the forwards were in being able to keep the ball. But really I do not like the idea of shutting the game out so early in the second half!

Tribute should be paid to the Munster forwards!

I Bleed Black
25-05-08, 09:29 PM
I was there, match was very average - but then again every final will be tight, Also sometimes harder to appreciate a match when not viewed up close through 10 perfgectly placed TV cameras.

but oh what atmosphere!!!!!!! Firstly the stadium...simply magnificent!! Roof clsed and the roaring Munster fans... they now how to have a good time and that showed after the game as well.

As a Kiwi, I have to say our NH brothers (and sisters) really know how to put on a show!

And special mention to the lovely Welsh woman who put us up for the night in Wales 5 mins walk from the Stadium and who had cold beer waiting in the fridge for us when we arrived!!! Top class!!

Steve-o
25-05-08, 11:31 PM
Congratulations to the Munster fans on here. I turned the game off after 20 minutes because i found it frustrating, Tolouse at that time showed nothing with ball in hand. I think Munster have deserved the title more this season, they had an incredibly tough group to start then two away games in the quarters and semis.
[/b]
I gave the game atleast 10 mins more than you. We&#39;re too spoiled to watch games like these

Prestwick
25-05-08, 11:48 PM
I was there, match was very average - but then again every final will be tight, Also sometimes harder to appreciate a match when not viewed up close through 10 perfgectly placed TV cameras.

but oh what atmosphere!!!!!!! Firstly the stadium...simply magnificent!! Roof clsed and the roaring Munster fans... they now how to have a good time and that showed after the game as well.

As a Kiwi, I have to say our NH brothers (and sisters) really know how to put on a show!

And special mention to the lovely Welsh woman who put us up for the night in Wales 5 mins walk from the Stadium and who had cold beer waiting in the fridge for us when we arrived!!! Top class!! [/b]

Yeah, Babs was amazing and said that I had a great smile!

I think the atmosphere made up for the sometimes incredibly cagey nature of the game. Watching the Munster fans going nuts over the incredibly exciting and scintilating pick-and-go tactics (as opposed to the boring, dull, dire and almost identical English pick-and-go tactics) was on the one hand hilarious but when you consider that they have the likes of Doug Howlett at their disposal...incredibly frustrating.

O'Rothlain
26-05-08, 12:27 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Congratulations to the Munster fans on here. I turned the game off after 20 minutes because i found it frustrating, Tolouse at that time showed nothing with ball in hand. I think Munster have deserved the title more this season, they had an incredibly tough group to start then two away games in the quarters and semis.
[/b]
I gave the game atleast 10 mins more than you. We&#39;re too spoiled to watch games like these [/b][/quote]
Please don&#39;t tell me this is a SH>NH comment... <_<

shazbooger
26-05-08, 01:01 AM
The thing about the pick and go. You want the ball, concede the penalty, otherwise Munster have proven they can do it all day. Was it 30+ phases against the Scarlets in the ******* rain earlier this year.

danny
26-05-08, 11:15 AM
The thing about the pick and go. You want the ball, concede the penalty, otherwise Munster have proven they can do it all day. Was it 30+ phases against the Scarlets in the ******* rain earlier this year.
[/b]
Thats right it was a very impressive peice of forward play.
O`Connell coming back has made a huge difference. Looking forward to him playing for the Lions next year and really cementing himself as a true legend of the game.

elgringoborracho
26-05-08, 11:43 AM
Come on guys you can&#39;t be serious! "Very impressive piece of forwar play", as in "I find it exciting when nothing happens and when the ball stays at the same place for 25 minutes" ?
I think Doug must feel really depressed there.

O'Rothlain
26-05-08, 02:11 PM
Come on guys you can&#39;t be serious! "Very impressive piece of forwar play", as in "I find it exciting when nothing happens and when the ball stays at the same place for 25 minutes" ?
I think Doug must feel really depressed there. [/b]
Yes. Exactly. It was very impressive.
It&#39;s not like Dougie hasn&#39;t seen the ball. Munster won the European championship because they&#39;ve utilized all aspects of the game this season. They changed gears during the second half and beat the **** out of Toulouse. I definitely find that impressive and it&#39;s one of Munster&#39;s most dangerous pieces of arsenal.

Prestwick
26-05-08, 02:17 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Congratulations to the Munster fans on here. I turned the game off after 20 minutes because i found it frustrating, Tolouse at that time showed nothing with ball in hand. I think Munster have deserved the title more this season, they had an incredibly tough group to start then two away games in the quarters and semis.
[/b]
I gave the game atleast 10 mins more than you. We&#39;re too spoiled to watch games like these [/b][/quote]
Please don&#39;t tell me this is a SH>NH comment... <_<
[/b][/quote]

shh, just let it be. The guy still thinks that only five people turned up for the game and rugby matches in general....

Bullitt
26-05-08, 02:18 PM
I suspect a lot of the reason Munster have the poorest brand of rugby they can has more to do with O&#39;Garas &#39;Wilkinson-esq&#39; flat-out refusal to do anything except hoof the ball as far downfield as possible rather then any suggested tatic.

If they got a decent 10, I bet they&#39;d play better rugby and win a fair bit more.

Sir Speedy
26-05-08, 02:20 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Congratulations to the Munster fans on here. I turned the game off after 20 minutes because i found it frustrating, Tolouse at that time showed nothing with ball in hand. I think Munster have deserved the title more this season, they had an incredibly tough group to start then two away games in the quarters and semis.
[/b]
I gave the game atleast 10 mins more than you. We&#39;re too spoiled to watch games like these [/b][/quote]
Please don&#39;t tell me this is a SH>NH comment... <_<
[/b][/quote]

shh, just let it be. The guy still thinks that only five people turned up for the game and rugby matches in general....
[/b][/quote]
He&#39;s been watching too much of the Magners League. :wacko:

Bullitt
26-05-08, 02:22 PM
:lol:

Steve-o
26-05-08, 02:44 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Congratulations to the Munster fans on here. I turned the game off after 20 minutes because i found it frustrating, Tolouse at that time showed nothing with ball in hand. I think Munster have deserved the title more this season, they had an incredibly tough group to start then two away games in the quarters and semis.
[/b]
I gave the game atleast 10 mins more than you. We&#39;re too spoiled to watch games like these [/b][/quote]
Please don&#39;t tell me this is a SH>NH comment... <_<
[/b][/quote]

shh, just let it be. The guy still thinks that only five people turned up for the game and rugby matches in general....
[/b][/quote]

Oh I see, you can&#39;t dispute the quality of the performance (or lack there of) so you take a dig at the decline in stadium attendences experienced in Oz and to a lesser extent in NZ. You should watch more Saffa games, or should I bring stats into this? This was the worst rugby match I&#39;ve watched this year, and apparently it got worse, so I called it like it is. Deal with it.

Jer1cho
26-05-08, 03:08 PM
Oh I see, you can&#39;t dispute the quality of the performance (or lack there of) so you take a dig at the decline in stadium attendences experienced in Oz and to a lesser extent in NZ. You should watch more Saffa games, or should I bring stats into this? This was the worst rugby match I&#39;ve watched this year, and apparently it got worse, so I called it like it is. Deal with it.


[/b]

* Hears a faint yet distinct sound of a group of cats sounding like they are about to have some sort of territorial dispute *

RRRRRRREEEEEEEMMMMMMRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRREO W

O'Rothlain
26-05-08, 03:52 PM
I suspect a lot of the reason Munster have the poorest brand of rugby they can has more to do with O&#39;Garas &#39;Wilkinson-esq&#39; flat-out refusal to do anything except hoof the ball as far downfield as possible rather then any suggested tatic.

If they got a decent 10, I bet they&#39;d play better rugby and win a fair bit more. [/b]
Can you please explain how a team with the "poorest brand of rugby" became the champions of Europe...

Bullitt
26-05-08, 03:56 PM
10 man, up-yer-jumper, hoof it away rugby. As famously employed by Munster, England, Leicester and Saracens.

Poor because, while effective at winning tight & high pressure games, is about an effective advert for the sport as a photo of Buck Shelfords free swinging bollock.

So therefore, a poor brand of rugby.

O'Rothlain
26-05-08, 04:25 PM
[It] is about an effective advert for the sport as a photo of Buck Shelfords free swinging bollock.[/b]
If you&#39;re trying to sell the sport to a bunch of Rugby Leaguers who don&#39;t appreciate things like rucks, mauls and scrums. For the rest of us who do appreciate those aspects of the game it is very effective advertising.

elgringoborracho
26-05-08, 04:26 PM
<div class='quotemain'> Come on guys you can&#39;t be serious! "Very impressive piece of forwar play", as in "I find it exciting when nothing happens and when the ball stays at the same place for 25 minutes" ?
I think Doug must feel really depressed there. [/b]
Yes. Exactly. It was very impressive.
It&#39;s not like Dougie hasn&#39;t seen the ball. Munster won the European championship because they&#39;ve utilized all aspects of the game this season. They changed gears during the second half and beat the **** out of Toulouse. I definitely find that impressive and it&#39;s one of Munster&#39;s most dangerous pieces of arsenal.
[/b][/quote]

Effective and impressive are two different notions I believe. Now don&#39;t get me wrong, I know Munster can play another rugby, it&#39;s just not the one we saw on saturday.

Bullitt
26-05-08, 04:55 PM
<div class='quotemain'>[It] is about an effective advert for the sport as a photo of Buck Shelfords free swinging bollock.[/b]
If you&#39;re trying to sell the sport to a bunch of Rugby Leaguers who don&#39;t appreciate things like rucks, mauls and scrums. For the rest of us who do appreciate those aspects of the game it is very effective advertising.
[/b][/quote]

When you already know about the game. If a newby who&#39;d never seen the game before turned that on and made forwards-based rugby as the foundation of his opinion, he would soon get very bored with the sport.

Nothing is more beautiful in the world of sport then a well organised rolling maul to somebody with a trained eye and there is indeed a place in our sport for it. However, to take a ball back into a ruck constantly for 15-20 minutes, not even looking to pass further then 10 once, is not only boring for the spectator, it&#39;s boring for the players, it&#39;s boring for the ref, it&#39;s boring for the fans and it&#39;s boring to the kid who&#39;s just decided not to watch the sport any more.

It killed the game and gave it a poor ending.

Still, those 2,000,000 Munstermen who have so far claimed they were there to see Cantillon and co. beat the ABs in 1978 will have enjoyed it. They turn out in numbers and cheer everything when they win.

Prestwick
26-05-08, 05:10 PM
Oh I see, you can&#39;t dispute the quality of the performance (or lack there of) so you take a dig at the decline in stadium attendences experienced in Oz and to a lesser extent in NZ. You should watch more Saffa games, or should I bring stats into this? This was the worst rugby match I&#39;ve watched this year, and apparently it got worse, so I called it like it is. Deal with it.

[/b]

Oh, I don&#39;t disagree with the quality of the game, not at all, definitely not digressing from the fact that the last twenty minutes at least ruined the game, definitely not saying the game was great and that the only spectacular moment was (contrary to what Shalk said) a moment of genius by Toulouse and Cedric Heymans. In short, I say the game was actually, quite rubbish really. Serious. Honest. Hand on my heart.

What I am saying is that despite such games which are tighter than that of the snatch of a medieval virgin, game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations. Deal with that my friend.

EDIT: as another note, we will have to accept that finals will be tight! Thus, they&#39;re rubbish examples to use in arguments over a variety of issues (hint hint, it begins with an E) Period. End of story.

Anyway, moments of the day for me were:

1. me completely buggering up how much the match and train tickets cost. Everyone costs £40 to me.
2. Jaffa Cakes.
3. Nice old ladies.
4. Brains SA.
5. Gay shirts.
6. Hilarious and blatant Irish hypocrisy over pick-and-go. Remember, if its pick and go done by guys in a white or Bok green jersey then its BORING! BOOOO!
7. Neither Saintsfanwebby nor IBleedBlack knowing the words to any songs by the Proclaimers.
8. Pretending to be Munster fans the next morning.
7.

Cymro
26-05-08, 05:14 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>[It] is about an effective advert for the sport as a photo of Buck Shelfords free swinging bollock.[/b]
If you&#39;re trying to sell the sport to a bunch of Rugby Leaguers who don&#39;t appreciate things like rucks, mauls and scrums. For the rest of us who do appreciate those aspects of the game it is very effective advertising.
[/b][/quote]

When you already know about the game. If a newby who&#39;d never seen the game before turned that on and made forwards-based rugby as the foundation of his opinion, he would soon get very bored with the sport.

Nothing is more beautiful in the world of sport then a well organised rolling maul to somebody with a trained eye and there is indeed a place in our sport for it. However, to take a ball back into a ruck constantly for 15-20 minutes, not even looking to pass further then 10 once, is not only boring for the spectator, it&#39;s boring for the players, it&#39;s boring for the ref, it&#39;s boring for the fans and it&#39;s boring to the kid who&#39;s just decided not to watch the sport any more.

It killed the game and gave it a poor ending.

Still, those 2,000,000 Munstermen who have so far claimed they were there to see Cantillon and co. beat the ABs in 1978 will have enjoyed it. They turn out in numbers and cheer everything when they win. [/b][/quote]

I agree with your post, it was not a attractive game and Ellisade was right in his comments found here:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12321_3612511,00.html


"It&#39;s getting like basketball where the only option is to make a technical error and take the points. That&#39;s not rugby, it&#39;s nothing."[/b]

and


"You had one guy diving alone on to the ground, another on top. At the end, I told him there were only blues (Munster) on the ground, no reds (Toulouse), no tackler and tackled, so I was not breaking the rules. But my English isn&#39;t super."[/b]

His first comment is very true, what Tolouse should have done was infringe, and I remember watching him screaming at Nigel about the rucking situation he is outlying in his second quote. Munster were diving over the top of the rucks and once or twice I felt a penalty could have been given.

I can understnad showing young forwards how to control the ball like Munster, and saying this is how its done, but it&#39;s not helping the game in the long run. It does ruin the viewing of the game and the Munster fans will just say its only because you did not want them to win, which is utter ******** in my book. I was hoping to see Howlett scoring and running through the Tolouse defense and watch an attrative game, the roof was closed so that the chance of rain turning into the game into a forwards one was quashed.

But the moral of the story is, you do anything to win and Munster did that!

Prestwick
26-05-08, 05:31 PM
I can understnad showing young forwards how to control the ball like Munster, and saying this is how its done, but it&#39;s not helping the game in the long run. It does ruin the viewing of the game and the Munster fans will just say its only because you did not want them to win, which is utter ******** in my book. I was hoping to see Howlett scoring and running through the Tolouse defense and watch an attrative game, the roof was closed so that the chance of rain turning into the game into a forwards one was quashed.

But the moral of the story is, you do anything to win and Munster did that!
[/b]

I was totally wanting to see Howlett score as well. It isn&#39;t helping the game that teams like England, Munster, Wasps and South Africa are doing the bare minimum to get by, grinding out results and tightening games with a vice like grip.

Forward play can be so much more positive. Look at what Sheridan and Shaw did against Australia in the World Cup, taking the ball forward, making hard yards, keeping the momentum going. This is how it should be done.

And for this BOTH hemispheres need to play their part. Remember that it took two to tango in order to make the World Cup Final such a cagey 80 minutes. South Africa were just as much to blame as England were. Everyone needs to come together to foster better practice and a much more positive vision for forwards in Rugby Union.

Steve-o
26-05-08, 05:56 PM
What I am saying is that despite such games which are tighter than that of the snatch of a medieval virgin, game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations. Deal with that my friend.

[/b]

Ok so Prestwick wants to run his mouth again.

Super 14 2008

Average attendence (before semi finals): 21 978



H-Cup 2007-08

Average attendence (before semi finals): 10 003



So as you can see the growth of the H-Cup is relative. Nigeria&#39;s economy might be growing faster than the United States, but it does mean it&#39;s bigger. Rugby has been the no.1 sport in AUS, NZ and SA for awhile so growth we have to stop sometime. In Europe rugby is gaining popularity (which is really good for rugby as a whole, very good news. I like. I like-a-alot. Hand on my heart) so growth will be bigger.

Let&#39;s not get into this Prestwick, growth of rugby is good, just don&#39;t act all high and mighty just because rugby growth is booming up there, you still got a long way to go.




Everyone needs to come together to foster better practice and a much more positive vision for forwards in Rugby Union.
[/b]

ELV&#39;s???

Cymro
26-05-08, 06:00 PM
<div class='quotemain'>


What I am saying is that despite such games which are tighter than that of the snatch of a medieval virgin, game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations. Deal with that my friend.

[/b]

Ok so Prestwick wants to run his mouth again.

Super 14 2008

Average attendence (before semi finals): 21 978



H-Cup 2007-08

Average attendence (before semi finals): 10 003



So as you can see the growth of the H-Cup is relative. Nigeria&#39;s economy might be growing faster than the United States, but it does mean it&#39;s bigger. Rugby has been the no.1 sport in AUS, NZ and SA for awhile so growth we have to stop sometime. In Europe rugby is gaining popularity (which is really good for rugby as a whole, very good news. I like. I like-a-alot. Hand on my heart) so growth will be bigger.

Let&#39;s not get into this Prestwick, growth of rugby is good, just don&#39;t act all high and mighty just because rugby growth is booming up there, you still got a long way to go.

[/b][/quote]

When quoting facts please state where you got them from?

Also rugby in the NH is growing, attendances are on the rise and as much as I hate to say it a bit of its down to England&#39;s 2003 rugby world cup success!

Bullitt
26-05-08, 06:12 PM
<div class='quotemain'> Everyone needs to come together to foster better practice and a much more positive vision for forwards in Rugby Union.[/b] ELV&#39;s???[/b][/quote]

http://www.orlyowl.com/upload/files/STFU.PNG

Prestwick
26-05-08, 06:17 PM
Ok so Prestwick wants to run his mouth again.
[/b]

What? Not for the first, but definitely not the last time: what the hell are you talking about? Why do you always do this, be so confrontational? I&#39;m stating cold hard facts, something you&#39;re failing to do.

The average for the HEC was actually per round at about 12 - 13,000. These figures were picked up from the clubs and the ERC. Leicester, Gloucester, Munster, Ulster and the French clubs sold out with attendances of 17,000 to 12,000. Also remember that clubs like Viadana and Glasgow have small stadia which even when at full capacity bring down the average.

When the new generation of 20 - 30,000 seater stadiums come on stream, the averages will only get bigger. Fact. End of story. Finito. Das Ende. NH Rugby is at a position where they are turning people away at the gates and games have been sold out months in advance.

To be perfectly blunt, your figures mean absolutely nothing when the fact remains that attendances are at record levels and that sell outs are the norm rather than the exception in NH Rugby.

Yes Steve, lets not get into this, just take my point that game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations at face value instead of trying to use it as a point of confrontation. And considering that the GP Final is going to be a sell out at 82,000, I see absolutely no reason why you need to be so haughty and aloof about NH Club Rugby.

EDIT: To be fair to Cymro, he is being very modest. Two Grand Slams within five years surely didn&#39;t do Welsh provincial and club attendances any harm?

Steve-o
26-05-08, 07:02 PM
I&#39;m only confrontational when stuff like this gets dragged on with provoking sarcasm. And i&#39;m not gonna get dragged into this any further since you never consider the facts and views I or anyone else brings to the table.
The basic facts are there, take it or leave it. The cold hard numbers are there Prestwick.
If you wanna say more drop me a PM, this is not the place.

Cymro
26-05-08, 07:20 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
Ok so Prestwick wants to run his mouth again.
[/b]

What? Not for the first, but definitely not the last time: what the hell are you talking about? Why do you always do this, be so confrontational? I&#39;m stating cold hard facts, something you&#39;re failing to do.

The average for the HEC was actually per round at about 12 - 13,000. These figures were picked up from the clubs and the ERC. Leicester, Gloucester, Munster, Ulster and the French clubs sold out with attendances of 17,000 to 12,000. Also remember that clubs like Viadana and Glasgow have small stadia which even when at full capacity bring down the average.

When the new generation of 20 - 30,000 seater stadiums come on stream, the averages will only get bigger. Fact. End of story. Finito. Das Ende. NH Rugby is at a position where they are turning people away at the gates and games have been sold out months in advance.

To be perfectly blunt, your figures mean absolutely nothing when the fact remains that attendances are at record levels and that sell outs are the norm rather than the exception in NH Rugby.

Yes Steve, lets not get into this, just take my point that game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations at face value instead of trying to use it as a point of confrontation. And considering that the GP Final is going to be a sell out at 82,000, I see absolutely no reason why you need to be so haughty and aloof about NH Club Rugby.

EDIT: To be fair to Cymro, he is being very modest. Two Grand Slams within five years surely didn&#39;t do Welsh provincial and club attendances any harm? [/b][/quote]

:bana:

Maybe I was being modest yes the grandslams have probably helped but clubs like Cardiff offer cheaper tickets now and the crowds at the Arms Park have steadily risen, I gather similar scheme&#39;s have been put in place with the Scarlets and Ospreys.

I was on the HEC site and was looking through the attendances and there were small ones and as Prestwick stated the small attendances were down to the fact that some of the teams mentioned above have smaller gounds, but given a few years they will have the bigger stadiums. The reason for that are that rugby is growing bigger and bigger day by day. At the outcome will be the fanbase will become bigger and these older stadiums will be replaced by bigger ones.

Its down to supply and demand really.

The Millenium Stadium has a capacity of 75,000, now with the Blues moving to Leckwith with Cardiff City FC and the stadium there is 20,000 so the Blues will be upgrading by around 6,000 seats, that means rumours are flying around that the Arms Park will be knocked down and the Millenium Stadium will expand by another 15,000 seats, because the demand is being there. Could you imagine 90,000 Welsh fans screaming for the team?

danny
26-05-08, 07:47 PM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Ok so Prestwick wants to run his mouth again.
[/b]

What? Not for the first, but definitely not the last time: what the hell are you talking about? Why do you always do this, be so confrontational? I&#39;m stating cold hard facts, something you&#39;re failing to do.

The average for the HEC was actually per round at about 12 - 13,000. These figures were picked up from the clubs and the ERC. Leicester, Gloucester, Munster, Ulster and the French clubs sold out with attendances of 17,000 to 12,000. Also remember that clubs like Viadana and Glasgow have small stadia which even when at full capacity bring down the average.

When the new generation of 20 - 30,000 seater stadiums come on stream, the averages will only get bigger. Fact. End of story. Finito. Das Ende. NH Rugby is at a position where they are turning people away at the gates and games have been sold out months in advance.

To be perfectly blunt, your figures mean absolutely nothing when the fact remains that attendances are at record levels and that sell outs are the norm rather than the exception in NH Rugby.

Yes Steve, lets not get into this, just take my point that game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations at face value instead of trying to use it as a point of confrontation. And considering that the GP Final is going to be a sell out at 82,000, I see absolutely no reason why you need to be so haughty and aloof about NH Club Rugby.

EDIT: To be fair to Cymro, he is being very modest. Two Grand Slams within five years surely didn&#39;t do Welsh provincial and club attendances any harm? [/b][/quote]

:bana:

Maybe I was being modest yes the grandslams have probably helped but clubs like Cardiff offer cheaper tickets now and the crowds at the Arms Park have steadily risen, I gather similar scheme&#39;s have been put in place with the Scarlets and Ospreys.

I was on the HEC site and was looking through the attendances and there were small ones and as Prestwick stated the small attendances were down to the fact that some of the teams mentioned above have smaller gounds, but given a few years they will have the bigger stadiums. The reason for that are that rugby is growing bigger and bigger day by day. At the outcome will be the fanbase will become bigger and these older stadiums will be replaced by bigger ones.

Its down to supply and demand really.

The Millenium Stadium has a capacity of 75,000, now with the Blues moving to Leckwith with Cardiff City FC and the stadium there is 20,000 so the Blues will be upgrading by around 6,000 seats, that means rumours are flying around that the Arms Park will be knocked down and the Millenium Stadium will expand by another 15,000 seats, because the demand is being there. Could you imagine 90,000 Welsh fans screaming for the team?
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, sounds horrific!

shtove
26-05-08, 08:01 PM
I agree completely with everything everyone has said on this thread. Including myself, because I&#39;m being magnanimous.

The last word should go to Munster&#39;s kiwi contingent, who expressed their disgust at how their boring team won the most boring competition in the world. And the Munster fans roared their agreement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdLPlJCi8s

Howlett then picked up a car and tossed it the length of O&#39;Connell St, where it smashed through the window of a French brasserie and landed on an Aussie international prop who was sipping a glass of Perrier.

Cymro
26-05-08, 08:32 PM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Ok so Prestwick wants to run his mouth again.
[/b]

What? Not for the first, but definitely not the last time: what the hell are you talking about? Why do you always do this, be so confrontational? I&#39;m stating cold hard facts, something you&#39;re failing to do.

The average for the HEC was actually per round at about 12 - 13,000. These figures were picked up from the clubs and the ERC. Leicester, Gloucester, Munster, Ulster and the French clubs sold out with attendances of 17,000 to 12,000. Also remember that clubs like Viadana and Glasgow have small stadia which even when at full capacity bring down the average.

When the new generation of 20 - 30,000 seater stadiums come on stream, the averages will only get bigger. Fact. End of story. Finito. Das Ende. NH Rugby is at a position where they are turning people away at the gates and games have been sold out months in advance.

To be perfectly blunt, your figures mean absolutely nothing when the fact remains that attendances are at record levels and that sell outs are the norm rather than the exception in NH Rugby.

Yes Steve, lets not get into this, just take my point that game attendances in the NH are at record levels in all HEC nations at face value instead of trying to use it as a point of confrontation. And considering that the GP Final is going to be a sell out at 82,000, I see absolutely no reason why you need to be so haughty and aloof about NH Club Rugby.

EDIT: To be fair to Cymro, he is being very modest. Two Grand Slams within five years surely didn&#39;t do Welsh provincial and club attendances any harm? [/b][/quote]

:bana:

Maybe I was being modest yes the grandslams have probably helped but clubs like Cardiff offer cheaper tickets now and the crowds at the Arms Park have steadily risen, I gather similar scheme&#39;s have been put in place with the Scarlets and Ospreys.

I was on the HEC site and was looking through the attendances and there were small ones and as Prestwick stated the small attendances were down to the fact that some of the teams mentioned above have smaller gounds, but given a few years they will have the bigger stadiums. The reason for that are that rugby is growing bigger and bigger day by day. At the outcome will be the fanbase will become bigger and these older stadiums will be replaced by bigger ones.

Its down to supply and demand really.

The Millenium Stadium has a capacity of 75,000, now with the Blues moving to Leckwith with Cardiff City FC and the stadium there is 20,000 so the Blues will be upgrading by around 6,000 seats, that means rumours are flying around that the Arms Park will be knocked down and the Millenium Stadium will expand by another 15,000 seats, because the demand is being there. Could you imagine 90,000 Welsh fans screaming for the team?
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, sounds horrific! [/b][/quote]

<_<

Prestwick
26-05-08, 08:41 PM
Its great that we&#39;re all talking about how big the strides that NH Club Rugby is making in such a short space of time. With the average Club rugby stadium in the UK topping a size of 15,000, its an obvious clue that the game is incredibly popular across the land.

The cold, hard facts and numbers reflect this, and boy does it feel good!


I agree completely with everything everyone has said on this thread. Including myself, because I&#39;m being magnanimous.

The last word should go to Munster&#39;s kiwi contingent, who expressed their disgust at how their boring team won the most boring competition in the world. And the Munster fans roared their agreement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdLPlJCi8s

Howlett then picked up a car and tossed it the length of O&#39;Connell St, where it smashed through the window of a French brasserie and landed on an Aussie international prop who was sipping a glass of Perrier. [/b]

It was dead boring. Not as boring as how I smashed my finger playing street rugby with drunk Munster fans.

Munster did earn the win. Winning a game reffed by Nigel Owens is virtually impossible these days...

O'Rothlain
27-05-08, 12:51 AM
*This article can be found here: http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Ot...unster-tactics/ (http://sports.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/05/26/Rugby-ODriscoll-defends-Munster-tactics/)</span>[/i]
</span>