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View Full Version : Who Do You Think Will Be in the Wallabies?



InsaneAsylum
14-05-08, 02:29 AM
yes i blatently copied the other thread :)

who do you think robbie deans will pick for the wallabies? will it be the same old faces or will we see lots of new blood?

personally, i think it might look like this:

15. mark gerrard
14. adam ashley-cooper
13. sterling mortlock
12. matt giteau
11. lote tiquiri
10. berrick barnes
9. luke burgess
8. stephen hoiles
7. george smith
6. rocky elsom
5. nathan sharpe
4. dan vickerman
3. matt dunning
2. stephen moore
1. al baxter

reserves from: phil waugh, drew mitchell, kurtley beale, julian huxley, wycliff palu, adam freier, james horwill, hugh mcmeniman, benn robinson, guy shepherdson, mark chisolm

might even throw leroy houston into the mix, and i have no idea about scrum halves, possibly inc phibbs?. i don't rate turner at all... needs more experience at super level as he seems to attempt heroics all the time... kind of like our luke mcalister :D

BLR
14-05-08, 03:04 AM
God that team sucks, here is the people I would throw out.

Mark Gerrard: He has shown in the past he doesn't have what it takes to play Test level, old butterfingers Gerrard, Cam Shepherd has had a rubbish season but seems to finally be hitting form right at the right time. He is the obvious selection.

Adam Ashley Cooper: Horribly over-rated player last year, did nothing last year at all besides that try against the All Blacks. He showed in the game against England why it was a mistake to play him instead of Mitchell, who is ideal for number 11, with Tuquiri (as much as I dislike him) probably needing to play 14.

Stirling Mortlock: This selection shouldn't be automatic, we want to select players on merit not of the fact they are the incumbent or captain. He hasn't played enough this season to justify his position on form. Toss up between Mortlock and Cross, which hopefully would be sorted out in the training camp.

Stephen Hoiles: I don't think he will be chosen, he just doesn't have the build to be a no. 8. It's a toss up between the Palu, Brown and Houston (although Houston should probably be given a shot at Australia A first)

Matt Dunning and Al Baxter: No, we don't want the folding chairs to come back...just no...

Besides that it seems fairly good...how many games has Elsom played this season though? Haven't heard anything about him.....but I suppose there isn't really anyone up to his level in his position...

Maccaweeny
14-05-08, 03:40 AM
Al Baxter does shine at certain times, and he usually keeps his head about him and doesn't do anything that stupid, it's just a pity he's such rubbish come scrum time.

InsaneAsylum
14-05-08, 03:43 AM
i think rocky has been injured, but who will play at 6... i know chisholm could be slotted in there.

what about schifcofske? i like shepherd but, as you said, huxley has been out with the tumour and none of the other fullbacks have been stand outs.

agreed, mitchell has played well

mortlock always rises to the top for the tests, he's an inspirational captain, and can't omit him because he didn't have a great super 14 season. cross has played though. i didn't include him in my list but maybe i should have

agreed we need new props... but who? we need another andrew blades and richard harry combo :)

BLR
14-05-08, 03:58 AM
what about schifcofske? i like shepherd but, as you said, huxley has been out with the tumour and none of the other fullbacks have been stand outs.[/b]
I don't think Schif has sufficient dimension to his game, he can kick alright but besides that what does he really add? He doesn't have much of a running game...

mortlock always rises to the top for the tests, he's an inspirational captain, and can't omit him because he didn't have a great super 14 season. cross has played though. i didn't include him in my list but maybe i should have[/b]
That's why I said both Cross and Mortlock should be given that chance in the training camp to assess thier value head to head....I dissagree Mortlock is an 'inspirational captain', he does the business for the Brumbies but the game against England should have been the time he showed his inspirational qualities instead of joining the rest of the team in crashing and burning. Unfortunately there isn't really much other possible captains...maybe George Smith? Knows the scrum, but at the same time not so much that he wouldn't understand the backs but it depends if he has the balls to yell at his players and tell them to stop playing like girls...

agreed we need new props... but who? we need another andrew blades and richard harry combo :)[/b]
To be honest there isn't anything hugely encouraging on the fringes but it's still plenty of time to the next World Cup, better to start experimenting with a good potential props then keep going with the same old tired combinations, that's why we did so bad in the World Cup, no view to the future...

Maccaweeny
14-05-08, 03:59 AM
Rodney Blake, Shep Shep and Tatafu Polota-Nau would be my front row, with Friar coming off the bench.

I think Chisholm definitely deserves selection, he's been solid this season. Personally i'd rather him over Vickerman, but when it comes to lineout time Vickerman is far superior.

Not sure about #8 Palu, Hoiles, Salvi and definitely Houston have all put their hands up

Fushitsusha
14-05-08, 04:41 AM
God that team sucks, here is the people I would throw out.

Mark Gerrard: He has shown in the past he doesn't have what it takes to play Test level, old butterfingers Gerrard, Cam Shepherd has had a rubbish season but seems to finally be hitting form right at the right time. He is the obvious selection.

Adam Ashley Cooper: Horribly over-rated player last year, did nothing last year at all besides that try against the All Blacks. He showed in the game against England why it was a mistake to play him instead of Mitchell, who is ideal for number 11, with Tuquiri (as much as I dislike him) probably needing to play 14.

Stirling Mortlock: This selection shouldn't be automatic, we want to select players on merit not of the fact they are the incumbent or captain. He hasn't played enough this season to justify his position on form. Toss up between Mortlock and Cross, which hopefully would be sorted out in the training camp.

Stephen Hoiles: I don't think he will be chosen, he just doesn't have the build to be a no. 8. It's a toss up between the Palu, Brown and Houston (although Houston should probably be given a shot at Australia A first)
[/b]

Gerrard has been the best fullback all year. I don't know where you get butterfingers from? He knocked on the ball once against SA in 2006 over the line and somehow he developed a reputation? Otherwise he was the Wallabies top try scorer that year.

He's got the best kicking game out of any Australian player, great positional play, solid runner and calm under pressure.

Adam Ashley-Cooper had a blinder last year. He was the best outside centre in the Super 14 and was solid for the Wallabies when he got an opportunity. I agree he didn't have a good game against England in the QF. However, he's an incredible line breaker. He's got an excellent ability to shrug off multiple defenders and create metres. His best position is outside centre but he still makes a great winger.

As for Mortlock - I think you're being harsh on him. He was one of the few Australian players doing anything against England in the QF. He was making some great line breaks and unfortunately there was no one around to support him to finish off with tries (ala Staniforth in the Bledisloe). Mortlock probably hasn't had the best Super 14 since coming back from injury, but it was the same last year. Yet, he was Australia's best player in the tests. I still believe he's the best outside centre in the world, and is really the only candidate to lead the side.

As for Hoiles - I have a feeling he won't get picked because of his size. Which is a shame. I don't want to see a Tahs dominated backrow because quite frankly they don't cut it at test level. The Brumbies definately have the best looseforward play but it's hard to find room for them in the team due to their general unconventional makeup. Richard Brown has also gone quiet in the last half of the Super 14, otherwise I'd have him automatically selected at no. 8.

I would preferably like to see Deans do something unconventional in the backrow because I find that Elsom and Palu don't really stand up when it counts in the big tests and it leaves George Smith to try and do everything. Maybe Hoiles could play blindside flanker with Palu at no. 8? Maybe Deans will try to bring Brown's early season form out of him? Maybe Deans might've noticed Salvi's great work in recent works?

I don't know, but there needs to be some kind of change there.....

Anyways, here's my team, for now -


1. Holmes
2. Moore
3. Shepherdson
4. Chisholm
5. Vickerman
6. Elsom
7. Smith
8. ?

9. Burgess
10. Giteau
11. Mitchell
12. Barnes
13. Mortlock
14. Ashley-cooper
15. Gerrard

16. Polata-Nau
17. Robinson/Blake
18. Sharpe
19. Hoiles
20. Phibbs
21. Cross
22. Staniforth/Tuqiri


I think a team similar to this could work. It relies on the best of the older players with a few fresh faces. I haven't chosen Waugh because Hoiles can cover all 3 backrow positions, and most of the time acts like another openside flanker. Chisholm has been in top form again and just edges out Sharpe. Outside of Burgess I'm not too impressed with many of the halfbacks, and with Cordingley leaving I've gone for Phibbs because he's tough and a bit more consistent to the others.

With Giteau controlling the backline, and players like Mortlock, Mitchell and Ashley-Cooper outside of him, there's plenty of room for good attacking rugby.

And yes, Tuqiri is lucky to be bracketed there on the bench. I'd rather have Mitchell and Ashley-Cooper in my team anyday.

Fushitsusha
14-05-08, 05:20 AM
I'd actually really like to know what the New Zealand and South African fans think.

Without having the bias towards their favourite teams like us Australians have, I'd really like to know who they'd pick for a Wallaby XV?



And just to broaden things up a bit, here's a pool of 45 players I believe Robbie Deans has the option of picking from -

Props: Holmes, Robinson, Shepherdson, Blake, Kepo, Dunning (why not?)
Hookers: Moore, Polata-Nau, Freier, Faingaa
Locks: Vickerman, Chisholm, Sharpe, Horwill, Chapman
Backrowers: Smith, Elsom, Hoiles, Waugh, Palu, Brown, Salvi, Pocock

Halfbacks: Burgess, Phibbs, Holmes, Lucas
Flyhalves: Giteau, Barnes, Cooper, Beale
Centres: Mortlock, Ashley-Cooper, Cross, Staniforth, T Smith
Wings: Mitchell, Tuqiri, Turner, Ioane, Hynes, Fainifo
Fullbacks: Gerrard, Shepherd, Schifcofske


Wow... I really struggled to pull out some names for the backs... there's quite a few guys I just threw in to make up numbers...

InsaneAsylum
14-05-08, 05:35 AM
is quade cooper classified as an aussie or a kiwi?

i know he group up in the waikato and he's as kiwi as marmite and jandals.

Haj
14-05-08, 05:43 AM
yes i blatently copied the other thread :)

who do you think robbie deans will pick for the wallabies? will it be the same old faces or will we see lots of new blood?

personally, i think it might look like this:

15. mark gerrard
14. adam ashley-cooper
13. sterling mortlock
12. matt giteau
11. lote tiquiri
10. berrick barnes
9. luke burgess
8. stephen hoiles
7. george smith
6. rocky elsom
5. nathan sharpe
4. dan vickerman
3. matt dunning
2. stephen moore
1. al baxter

reserves from: phil waugh, drew mitchell, kurtley beale, julian huxley, wycliff palu, adam freier, james horwill, hugh mcmeniman, benn robinson, guy shepherdson, mark chisolm

might even throw leroy houston into the mix, and i have no idea about scrum halves, possibly inc phibbs?. i don't rate turner at all... needs more experience at super level as he seems to attempt heroics all the time... kind of like our luke mcalister :D
[/b]





1.

2. Polota nau

3.

4. Vickerman

5. Horwill

6. Elsom

7. Smith

8. Brown

9. Burgess

10. Giteau

11. Tuquiri

12. Barnes

13. Mortlock

14. Mitchell

15. Gerrard



16. Moore

17.

18. Sharpe

19. Hoilles

20. Phibbs

21. Shepherd

22. Ryan Cross



I deliberately left the props blank as it would all depend on which country the wallabies play. Same could probably be said about the loose forwards.





And yes, Tuqiri is lucky to be bracketed there on the bench. I'd rather have Mitchell and Ashley-Cooper in my team anyday. [/b]
i hate tuquiri just as much as most people outside of NSW but i think he's starting to find the form we've been waiting for the last couple years.

I tend to rate ashley cooper in the same pedigree as lachy turner on the wing and fullback ie overated tho i think this will change once ash cooper plays 13 fulltime. He will be a brilliant centre given the oppurtunity.

BLR
14-05-08, 05:57 AM
Gerrard has been the best fullback all year. I don't know where you get butterfingers from? He knocked on the ball once against SA in 2006 over the line and somehow he developed a reputation? Otherwise he was the Wallabies top try scorer that year.[/b]
Gerrard reminds me of Rathbone, had one good year for the Wallabies but since then has been solid enough but wouldn't even get a look in if he was a Kiwi for example, the problem with Australia is that we no longer have the spark that we used to have, and both AAC and Gerrard don't add that too me, solid players but a long way away from being game-winners like our opposition have.

Richard Brown has also gone quiet in the last half of the Super 14, otherwise I'd have him automatically selected at no. 8.[/b]
To be fair the whole Force team have lost something after thier early season tour...I can't put my finger on it but I don't think it's Browns fault as much as it is just our rubbish play, Brown should at least get a bench spot. Deans will surely bring a bit more form out of Brown.

Maybe Hoiles could play blindside flanker with Palu at no. 8?[/b]
That's a pretty decent idea about Hoiles, it would realistically be his only chance to get a run on.

With Giteau controlling the backline, and players like Mortlock, Mitchell and Ashley-Cooper outside of him, there's plenty of room for good attacking rugby.[/b]
I don't think Giteau should be flyhalf, have you noticed the last few weeks he has been 'crabbing' and has lost alot of his attacking spark he had at inside centre. Barnes 10 and Gits 12 is realistically the only option I'd think.

And yes, Tuqiri is lucky to be bracketed there on the bench. I'd rather have Mitchell and Ashley-Cooper in my team anyday.[/b]
Tuqiri will get a run on, he has been impressive all Super 14, he's really answered his critics. AAC should be kept on the bench as a utility and when Mortlock eventually leaves AAC should take his place. Also Tuqiri's newfound leadership will do very nicely for the Wallabies.

I think in the first few tests Deans should experiment with the more fragile players like Quade Cooper. He may have a high error rate but damn does he have a spark in him, a spark which alot of the squad at the World Cup simply didn't show...

PS. Fushi, I am glad you have finally seen the light about Mitchell. :P

Fushitsusha
14-05-08, 06:50 AM
I still have issues with Mitchell but I think he really matured over the World Cup.

As for Gerrard, I do think he's been a bit out of form on the wing in recent years but he's been outstanding at fullback this year and the battle between him and Shepherd this Friday should be interesting.

Personally I'm not a big fan of Palu so I'd like to see someone like Brown given a shot. But as I've said before, I think the formula for a sucessful Wallabies pack involves the Reds scrum, the Tahs lineout, and the Brumbies loose play. I'd really love to find room in the side for Hoiles but sadly I think he'll be utilised on the bench as a utility.

As for Barnes/Giteau. I figure they could interchange in their roles depending on the situation. They could definately compliment each other. So I wouldn't mind who played what position.

BLR, you and I should lock ourselves into a room and I'm sure we could brainstorm an excellent Wallaby side. :D

BLR
14-05-08, 07:27 AM
BLR, you and I should lock ourselves into a room and I'm sure we could brainstorm an excellent Wallaby side. :D
[/b]
We'd either make a great Wallaby side or not come out alive from arguing the points of our favoured players. :P

I just had a bit of an idea. Cam Shepherd at 14 (he played wing last season when he was on fire) and Gerrard at full back. They are both around 24 aren't they so it could be a viable back three of Mitchell, Shepherd and Gerrard that could take us to eh 2011 cup. Unless Lachie Turner or any unforeseen candidates come through in that time that is....

Fushitsusha
14-05-08, 07:37 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
BLR, you and I should lock ourselves into a room and I&#39;m sure we could brainstorm an excellent Wallaby side. :D
[/b]
We&#39;d either make a great Wallaby side or not come out alive from arguing the points of our favoured players. :P

I just had a bit of an idea. Cam Shepherd at 14 (he played wing last season when he was on fire) and Gerrard at full back. They are both around 24 aren&#39;t they so it could be a viable back three of Mitchell, Shepherd and Gerrard that could take us to eh 2011 cup. Unless Lachie Turner or any unforeseen candidates come through in that time that is....
[/b][/quote]

It wouldn&#39;t be a bad back 3... but I&#39;d still rather see AAC on the wing... :P

However, if Deans were to pick something like that... I wouldn&#39;t protest, and I&#39;d be interested to see what results came out...

Lachie Turner has dissapointed me this year... so good last year for the Tahs, but he seems to have put on weight and lost the speed that he had...

Last year I would&#39;ve said that he&#39;d be a definite starter for the Wallabies this year, now he&#39;s going to go back to Australia A....

I really hope that Clyde Rathbone can have an injury free year next year, and not have lost his athleticism... he&#39;s such a great finisher on the wing... I feel that both the Brumbies and Wallabies have missed a good strong speedster on the wing... there have definately been opportunities for the Brumbies this season that if he had&#39;ve been in that position he would&#39;ve scored a try... unfortunately Playford and Fainifo don&#39;t seem to possess that speed...

Rathbone had a mixed 2006, and a nothing 2007 (due to injuries), but he&#39;s definately a player who could really benefit Australia if he got back into form... he&#39;s just able to blast past defenders on the outside or go through them with his strength...

The Wallabies seem to now be short of really exciting wingers... a couple of years ago we apparently didn&#39;t have enough centres, now we&#39;ve tonnes, but no really great wingers...

mackka
14-05-08, 07:52 AM
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Edwards
4. Vickerman
5. Howrill
6. Brown
7. Smith
8. Palu
9. Burgess
10. Barnes
11. Mitchell
12. Giteau
13. Mortlock
14. Tuqiri
15. Gerrard/Shepherd

16. Polota-Nau
17. Dunning
18. McMeniman (if fit. he can play lock can&#39;t he?) otherwise Sharpe
19. Hoiles
20. Waugh
21. Lucas
22. Ashley-Cooper

Don&#39;t know why nobody&#39;s mentioned Edwards for the front row. He&#39;s been great for the Reds. Elsom hasn&#39;t really shown much this season but if he pulls out a big one against the Reds he could take Brown&#39;s spot, forcing him out of the 22. I like the idea of Hoiles on the bench to cover both 8 and 6. A back row of Smith, Brown and Palu is, at the moment, the best formula I think. Brown&#39;s quick and strong in contact and he makes plenty of metres. Palu&#39;s been one of the most damaging runners in the S14 and should definitely be starting. Fushi, have you seen what the Tahs scrum has been doing this season? I think the people claiming that the Reds have the best scrum in Australia are going to get a real shock on Saturday night. Robinson&#39;s not the biggest guy, but he&#39;s so solid and stocky he&#39;s like a boulder. Plus, he&#39;s great around the field and regularly fills in at scrum half with a surprisingly good pass. I still think Giteau does his best work at 12 and would prefer to see him outside Barnes rather than inside him, regardless of where they&#39;ve been playing this season. With those two plus Lucas and AAC on the bench we can go for a 5-2 split all season

Mr. Laxative
14-05-08, 08:49 AM
I have actually been out of the country for 6 weeks and have come back and was a little confused with the Brumbies side. Where is Playford? He was clearly a better wing option than Fainifo and was looking like a certainty for the Wallabies early on. At least that&#39;s what I thought.

InsaneAsylum
14-05-08, 10:12 AM
I have actually been out of the country for 6 weeks and have come back and was a little confused with the Brumbies side. Where is Playford? He was clearly a better wing option than Fainifo and was looking like a certainty for the Wallabies early on. At least that&#39;s what I thought. [/b]

peter playford played "ok i guess" however he&#39;d be more at home in the melbourne rebels side than the wallabies if you ask me..

i miss the rebels :ranting:

Hamster
14-05-08, 12:33 PM
No offence InsaneAsylum but that team u mentioned in your first post was a shocker. Why do u support the Cheifs if ur from Melborune btw?

imo something like this wud be good..

1. Holmes
2. Polota-Nau / Freier (plz not Moore)
3. WOuldnt have a clue, just not Sherperdson or Baxter and I will be happy)
4. Horwill (must go for the future)
5. Vickerman. just ahead of Sharpe.
6. Rocky/Pocock
7. Smith
8. Houston/Hoiles/Palu (toughy, but all good players)
9. Lucas/Burgess
10. Giteua. no doubt bout it
11. Tiqiri (hate to say it but hes playing well)
12. Barnes. Must have him there. Played his f***ing arse off this year.
13. Mortlock/Cross
14. Hynes. Pick him FFS hes been on fire for the Reds. He wont be a starter in bledsisloe etc but shud definetly be picked for the Ireland game.
15. Gerrard/Shepherd. both good players, not sure whos better.

Reserves:
Players ive mentioned above.

Or we could pick for the future straight away, dump gits and have Beale at 10, Turner 11, O&#39;Connor at 12, Horne at 13 lol.

BLR
14-05-08, 12:49 PM
Hamster, not picking Mitchell despite the fact he has been a performer all season in a rubbish Force backline? Look at his metres gained and line break stats and tell me Hynes has played better...

Incredible Schalk
14-05-08, 01:08 PM
The Reds and especially Waratahs scrums have been very strong this season, they might as well just use as much of the Tahs pack as possible. Maybe put in Rodzilla instead of fat Dunning?

Fushitsusha
14-05-08, 01:20 PM
I have actually been out of the country for 6 weeks and have come back and was a little confused with the Brumbies side. Where is Playford? He was clearly a better wing option than Fainifo and was looking like a certainty for the Wallabies early on. At least that&#39;s what I thought.
[/b]

Playford injured himself a few weeks back, and will be heading overseas at the end of the season.

The Brumbies have got Mafi from the Tahs to take his place.



they might as well just use as much of the Tahs pack as possible.
[/b]

That&#39;s the last thing we need.

Our scrum will get humiliated (again), and we won&#39;t be able to retain our own ball at the breakdown.

InsaneAsylum
14-05-08, 10:17 PM
No offence InsaneAsylum but that team u mentioned in your first post was a shocker. Why do u support the Cheifs if ur from Melborune btw?
[/b]

no offence taken... it&#39;s good to see different people with different opinions on who should be wearing the green and gold. that was the purpose of creating the post, can&#39;t wait till the tri-nations start.

as for the chiefs, i&#39;m australian, grew up in melb, and i have family and friends from waikato. we have no melbourne team in the super 14 and i have no loyalites with any other australian state. I like the chiefs, so f*** it... i&#39;ll go for them. they are an exciting team and i like the way they play. they also aren&#39;t the most popular or highly rated team in NZ which makes me like them even more! it&#39;s a different story though when the Wallabies are playing.

BLR
15-05-08, 01:36 AM
InsaneAsylum, just go for the Force already and be done with it, hell, we play pre-season matches in Melbourne as well, don&#39;t see your beloved Chiefs doing that. B)

InsaneAsylum
15-05-08, 03:26 AM
InsaneAsylum, just go for the Force already and be done with it, hell, we play pre-season matches in Melbourne as well, don&#39;t see your beloved Chiefs doing that. B) [/b]

HA! go for the club that ruined melbourne&#39;s chance of super 14 action.... NEVER

besides i already have heaps of red black and yellow gear to wear :)

honestly though, as i have no loyalty to states, i like all the aussie super 14 teams equally, as they all have a few of my favourite players in them :)

j1mb0
15-05-08, 06:51 AM
I don&#39;t think Rodzilla should really get a look in for the Wallabies team, he&#39;s at best in the train on squad. He&#39;s been having a pretty low impact all season, being benched behind Dayna Edwards, who I think should definitely be the tight head for the Wallabies. I like the idea of Lucas on the bench, as he allows a 5-2 split because he plays flyhalf. Horwill is should be in the team too, he&#39;s played out of his skin this year. Moore&#39;s been a bit up and down, but I think he&#39;s still the frontrunner for the No.2. It&#39;s a bit of a quandary what to do for No.15, it&#39;ll be interesting to see what happens.

I like mackka&#39;s team, with the exception of Dunning on the bench, but apart from that I reckon its got a lot of potential.

Hamster
15-05-08, 09:43 AM
Hamster, not picking Mitchell despite the fact he has been a performer all season in a rubbish Force backline? Look at his metres gained and line break stats and tell me Hynes has played better... [/b]

Sorry buddy completely forgot about Mitchell there! Was trying to remember who the Force&#39;s wingers were!

Definetly Mitchell as the no.1, I&#39;m still ****** by the fact he didnt start in the WC QF. He should be considered ahead of Tiquri, but I also agree it&#39;s time Hynesy gets his Wallaby debut and he should be in the 22 for the Ireland game imo.

BTW Insane cos your from Melbourne I&#39;m guessing you would be an AFL fan? what team do u go for?

InsaneAsylum
15-05-08, 10:26 PM
BTW Insane cos your from Melbourne I&#39;m guessing you would be an AFL fan? what team do u go for? [/b]

i grew up on afl, following the demons... currently dead last :D

started watching rugby league in the late 80&#39;s then found union in the early 90&#39;s, haven&#39;t looked back.

mackka
17-05-08, 12:41 PM
I think the people claiming that the Reds have the best scrum in Australia are going to get a real shock on Saturday night.[/b]

Woot woot!!!!

Fushitsusha
18-05-08, 01:14 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
I think the people claiming that the Reds have the best scrum in Australia are going to get a real shock on Saturday night.[/b]

Woot woot!!!!
[/b][/quote]

I am shocked that the Tahs outdid them in that department...

I would give that credit to Robinson and Polata-Nau, and would still leave Dunning and Baxter to play club rugby...

haupy
18-05-08, 01:56 AM
I&#39;ll give it a shot :)

1, 2, 3: I really don&#39;t know, probably Polata-Nau as 2 and Rodney Blake with Robinson. This is the area where the Wallabies usually do very poorly and so long as Dunning or Baxter aren&#39;t picked I&#39;ll be happy.

4, 5: Vickerman is a must here in my opinion, partnered by Horwill I would say, but keep players like Mumm and Chisholm in the squad. Sharp really isn&#39;t that great a player, at least I think so.

6, 7: Elsom and Smith to start with Pocock on the bench but Waugh could get a look in here. Chisholm and Hoiles could also cover some of these positions.

8: Palu is our best option I believe, with Hoiles on the bench we should have plenty of players that can cover this position if Palu has to leave for whatever reason.

9: Burgess, he gets the ball out quickly from the ruck, exactly what we needed against England and didn&#39;t have with Gregan playing.

10: I like Barnes here, with Giteau at 12 but you could easily swap them around.

11, 14: It&#39;s a pity that Mitchell is injured now as I reckon he&#39;s a great player and should have definitely secured his test spot after his performances in the World Cup but for now have Gerard. As for the other winger, Tiquiri, with turner on the bench to cover a few spots.

12, 13: Giteau or Barnes at 12 doesn&#39;t really make a massive difference in my opinion. Mortlock has done enough since coming back from injury to earn a spot in the run on side, but Cross should get a look in (although he might be injured?)

15: Sheppard, don&#39;t really have a fullback that can make something from nothing like Latham any more but both Shepard and Gerard have good boots on them which is what we need now.


That&#39;s the team that I reckon could serve us well in future years, we need to get some young guys in and train them up for the next world cup.

MFryar
18-05-08, 03:40 AM
No offence InsaneAsylum but that team u mentioned in your first post was a shocker. Why do u support the Cheifs if ur from Melborune btw?

imo something like this wud be good..

1. Holmes
2. Polota-Nau / Freier (plz not Moore)
3. WOuldnt have a clue, just not Sherperdson or Baxter and I will be happy)
4. Horwill (must go for the future)
5. Vickerman. just ahead of Sharpe.
6. Rocky/Pocock
7. Smith
8. Houston/Hoiles/Palu (toughy, but all good players)
9. Lucas/Burgess
10. Giteua. no doubt bout it
11. Tiqiri (hate to say it but hes playing well)
12. Barnes. Must have him there. Played his f***ing arse off this year.
13. Mortlock/Cross
14. Hynes. Pick him FFS hes been on fire for the Reds. He wont be a starter in bledsisloe etc but shud definetly be picked for the Ireland game.
15. Gerrard/Shepherd. both good players, not sure whos better.

Reserves:
Players ive mentioned above.

Or we could pick for the future straight away, dump gits and have Beale at 10, Turner 11, O&#39;Connor at 12, Horne at 13 lol.
[/b]

I think you have got it pretty much spot on.

Horwill needs to be in there - he comprehensively outplayed both bakkies botha and nathan sharpe this season and they had been 2 of the top locks.

Pocock is worth a gamble, especially with Elsom going overseas (if you are going, you shouldnt get to play).

Barnes is unflappable defensively and with Giteau, he gives the backline another quality ballplayer. Not to mention he is getting better and better at popping over the dg when there is nothing on.

Hynes is the form Aussie wing of the comp and deserves to be rewarded with at least the Ireland game, if not a Bledisloe cap. Mitchell is good, probably faster and good in the air but Hynes just has a knack of popping up in the right place to push the attack through the midfield. He combines very well with the centres and did you see some of the hits he put on this season?! Hello Richard Brown! Keep in mind that this is all coming from someone who made the comment last year that Hynes is a tier 2 mediocre player at best and will never wear Wallabies jersey. I am happily eating my words right now...

Shepherd has to be the fullback over Gerrard.

BLR
18-05-08, 04:23 AM
15: Sheppard, don&#39;t really have a fullback that can make something from nothing like Latham any more but both Shepard and Gerard have good boots on them which is what we need now.
[/b]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylGowVghCZ0

01:50. It speaks for itself....



Horwill needs to be in there - he comprehensively outplayed both bakkies botha and nathan sharpe this season and they had been 2 of the top locks.

Hynes is the form Aussie wing of the comp and deserves to be rewarded with at least the Ireland game, if not a Bledisloe cap. Mitchell is good, probably faster and good in the air but Hynes just has a knack of popping up in the right place to push the attack through the midfield. He combines very well with the centres and did you see some of the hits he put on this season?! Hello Richard Brown! Keep in mind that this is all coming from someone who made the comment last year that Hynes is a tier 2 mediocre player at best and will never wear Wallabies jersey. I am happily eating my words right now...
[/b]
Horwill is a thug, if we want someone to get a yellow every game then he is our man...

Hynes will be in Australia A, Mitchell is just too good. Wingers are supposed to play on the wing btw, not the midfield, although Lote has been playing in the midfield all season so I suppose if he does it then it must be the right thing to do. ;)

Dmx#1
18-05-08, 04:30 AM
As long as you dont have Matt Dunning and his mini me Robinson you should be alright in the props department. I&#39;d always thought people would pick Giteau at 10 and Barnes at 12. Barnes wont be as flashy as Giteau but D is solid and I think Giteau is better at controlling the backline. I don&#39;t know maybe I&#39;m wrong Im no expert on Australian Rugby.

mackka
18-05-08, 04:51 AM
Matt Dunning&#39;s mini me Robinson...Im no expert on Australian Rugby.
[/b]

Clearly. Robinson has dominated pretty much every scrum he&#39;s come up against. He and Polota-Nau took the Stormers and Reds to pieces.

Dmx#1
18-05-08, 05:16 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
Matt Dunning&#39;s mini me Robinson...Im no expert on Australian Rugby.
[/b]

Clearly. Robinson has dominated pretty much every scrum he&#39;s come up against. He and Polota-Nau took the Stormers and Reds to pieces. [/b][/quote]

Lol I didnt watch the stormers game so I&#39;ll take your word for it. In the reds game I actually saw Robinson collapse the scrum at least twice. He looked like Carl Hayman once Matt Dunning came on though. Reds dont really have a quality front row imo. Benn Robinson will get his beans if he faces off against Woodcock as his opposite. Benn Robinson is a average scrummager and you should be worried if hes going to be your no.1 prop.

Dmx#1
18-05-08, 05:47 AM
I also have to give props to Tuiqiri who has been on form lately. I usually have fun dissing but I have to give credit when its due. If I was to judge Hynes on one game (reds vs waratahs) I&#39;d say he was a hopeless prat who managed to make up his mistakes with his try. Oh yeah, Robinson is gonna get destroyed if you choose him as your number one prop.

mackka
18-05-08, 08:16 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Matt Dunning&#39;s mini me Robinson...Im no expert on Australian Rugby.
[/b]

Clearly. Robinson has dominated pretty much every scrum he&#39;s come up against. He and Polota-Nau took the Stormers and Reds to pieces. [/b][/quote]

Lol I didnt watch the stormers game so I&#39;ll take your word for it. In the reds game I actually saw Robinson collapse the scrum at least twice. He looked like Carl Hayman once Matt Dunning came on though. Reds dont really have a quality front row imo. Benn Robinson will get his beans if he faces off against Woodcock as his opposite. Benn Robinson is a average scrummager and you should be worried if hes going to be your no.1 prop.
[/b][/quote]

Haha I&#39;m gonna sound like a real tool here but I&#39;m just a massive fan of this bloke.

I remember a few scrums collapsing but they were all on the Reds feed if I remember correctly and Robinson was hardly under pressure so I dunno what it says about his scrummaging. At the end of the day he was instrumental in completely destroying a pack that stood up well against both the Crusaders and Blues. He&#39;s already come up against Woodcock when we played the Blues. I can&#39;t really remember how he went but I&#39;m pretty sure our scrum was very solid that match. I know he doesn&#39;t look like much but I&#39;d be quietly confident come scrum time if we had him in the Wallabies front row.

edit - we won three tight heads against the Stormers.

sanzar
18-05-08, 09:14 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
I think the people claiming that the Reds have the best scrum in Australia are going to get a real shock on Saturday night.[/b]

Woot woot!!!!
[/b][/quote]

I am shocked that the Tahs outdid them in that department...

I would give that credit to Robinson and Polata-Nau, and would still leave Dunning and Baxter to play club rugby... [/b][/quote]
Of course you are. You&#39;ve expected the Tahs to be thumped every week because being NSW means they "must suck". Maybe you need to shake that colossal chip off your shoulder, because it seems to be warping your perspective :P .




Wingers are supposed to play on the wing btw, not the midfield, although Lote has been playing in the midfield all season so I suppose if he does it then it must be the right thing to do. ;) [/b]
Wingers are indeed supposed to play on the wing, but a good winger will go looking for work when work needs to be done. And when you&#39;re as big and powerful as Lote, you&#39;re just wasting time if you spend the whole match on your wing.

Fushitsusha
18-05-08, 11:23 AM
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
I think the people claiming that the Reds have the best scrum in Australia are going to get a real shock on Saturday night.[/b]

Woot woot!!!!
[/b][/quote]

I am shocked that the Tahs outdid them in that department...

I would give that credit to Robinson and Polata-Nau, and would still leave Dunning and Baxter to play club rugby... [/b][/quote]
Of course you are. You&#39;ve expected the Tahs to be thumped every week because being NSW means they "must suck". Maybe you need to shake that colossal chip off your shoulder, because it seems to be warping your perspective :P .
[/b][/quote]

Nooooooo...

Because the Reds scrum have had a consistently strong scrum for a few years now... and have generally stood up against the best scrummaging teams in the competition... wheras the Waratahs have had a scrum that has mixed results...

Obviously Robinson and Polata-Nau make a HUGE difference to the front row, and I&#39;d hope they&#39; in contention for the Wallabies...

One of Connolly&#39;s big mistakes was to give Robinson a chance, and then out of nowhere dump him for Dunning and Baxter who are completely useless...

But thanks for telling me what my intentions are... :P

Dmx#1
18-05-08, 11:38 AM
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
Matt Dunning&#39;s mini me Robinson...Im no expert on Australian Rugby.
[/b]

Clearly. Robinson has dominated pretty much every scrum he&#39;s come up against. He and Polota-Nau took the Stormers and Reds to pieces. [/b][/quote]

Lol I didnt watch the stormers game so I&#39;ll take your word for it. In the reds game I actually saw Robinson collapse the scrum at least twice. He looked like Carl Hayman once Matt Dunning came on though. Reds dont really have a quality front row imo. Benn Robinson will get his beans if he faces off against Woodcock as his opposite. Benn Robinson is a average scrummager and you should be worried if hes going to be your no.1 prop.
[/b][/quote]

Haha I&#39;m gonna sound like a real tool here but I&#39;m just a massive fan of this bloke.

I remember a few scrums collapsing but they were all on the Reds feed if I remember correctly and Robinson was hardly under pressure so I dunno what it says about his scrummaging. At the end of the day he was instrumental in completely destroying a pack that stood up well against both the Crusaders and Blues. He&#39;s already come up against Woodcock when we played the Blues. I can&#39;t really remember how he went but I&#39;m pretty sure our scrum was very solid that match. I know he doesn&#39;t look like much but I&#39;d be quietly confident come scrum time if we had him in the Wallabies front row.

edit - we won three tight heads against the Stormers. [/b][/quote]

Doesnt it makes sense to collapse an opposing scrum rather than your own feed? It makes no sense unless your getting wasted by the opposing players (which I cant recall either team getting a noticable upper hand)
Btw Crusaders front row is cack! Gregg Somerville whos their best scrummager gets owned week in & week out.John Afoa is a very average scrummager, Its his open play abilities that keeps him on the starting lineup, plus Woodcock can make anyone alongside him look good and Mealamu is solid in scrums. I also remember a scrum rotating with Robinsons side getting crunched which happened twice I believe. Its possible Baxter might have been carryingfor once his weight in that game haha. I&#39;ll be brutally honest though i wouldnt know who to pick as your front row.

Hamster
26-05-08, 06:50 AM
I&#39;ll just be happy if Dunning, Baxter or Moore are picked in the game against Ireland and even happier if they dont pick them altogether. Gotta admit there is some good depth and selecting the 30 would be a bit of a headache.


<div class='quotemain'> BTW Insane cos your from Melbourne I&#39;m guessing you would be an AFL fan? what team do u go for? [/b]

i grew up on afl, following the demons... currently dead last :D

started watching rugby league in the late 80&#39;s then found union in the early 90&#39;s, haven&#39;t looked back.
[/b][/quote]

Melbourne definetly needs more rugby fans like you lol.

Jang
31-05-08, 09:45 AM
i reckon kurtley should go fly and giteau centre but not sure if beale is even ok to plai footy from the super 14 final from gettin injured

Fushitsusha
31-05-08, 09:52 AM
Beale isn&#39;t good enough to be in the Wallabies.

I think it&#39;ll be a while before he is even considered, as long as he improves and doesn&#39;t plateau.

jawmalawm24
31-05-08, 10:34 AM
From a kiwi&#39;s point of view I reckon after watching the final that Lachlan Turner definately deserves a good shot at it. He was all over the place chasing the ball, kicking it and scoring tries so I think he&#39;d make a pretty good utility.

BLR
31-05-08, 10:39 AM
From a kiwi&#39;s point of view I reckon after watching the final that Lachlan Turner definately deserves a good shot at it. He was all over the place chasing the ball, kicking it and scoring tries so I think he&#39;d make a pretty good utility.[/b]
The thing is he played good in the final yet didn&#39;t do a thing all season....

Fa'atau82
08-06-08, 01:28 PM
I have noticed this for a while now, but nearly all the top teams use the IRB 7&#39;s to test out new players and the only one that i&#39;d say is a great underachiever is Australia. They suck most of the time and get beaten by teams who really should even test them. Why is this?

Surely in a country as large as Oz, you should have plenty of top quality props, and not using useless duffers like Dunning and Baxter. You might as well cap Barney the Dinosaur and the Michelin man.

Is there an underlining attitude about becoming involved in rugby as a forward as opposed to a back? Why does Australia seem to have this massive problem with the front row in particular?

Seems like a similar problem in England, except we have players coming through although the old farts at the RFU seem to want to stick with the Saga XV.

sanzar
08-06-08, 02:08 PM
We used be pretty handy with the 7s, but somewhere along the way the ARU just stopped caring and it&#39;s funding is all but non-existent now.

And in any case, we&#39;re not exactly bursting at the seems with talent. A large country though we may be, our population is incredibly small in proportion to our size (at a mere 20 million people, several major international cities eclipse us) and rugby has the lowest level of participation out of the four major football codes (RU, RL, AFL, soccer).

Maccaweeny
08-06-08, 02:43 PM
Not to mention the lack of an intermediate comp to bridge the divide between club and professional rugby. There are good players out there, but being &#39;discovered&#39; often has a lot to do with luck. Some players need to mature, yet there aren&#39;t a lot of opportunities for them to do so.

Not everyone is at the top of their game at sixteen, look at Mortlock. He was in the Kings 3rd XV, and while he&#39;s made it big, there are a lot of other players out there who have potential yet not the opportunities to develop it.

That said though, these things have highs and lows, we&#39;ve been in a low ever since 2003. Things will start looking up.

Fa'atau82
09-06-08, 07:42 AM
Sounds like you need to invest in infrastructure, or else you are doomed to 3rd rate vets for years to come.

sanzar
09-06-08, 09:20 AM
Well that&#39;s just the thing. We&#39;ve never had anywhere near the player numbers of countries like England, France SA etc, but through good management and a high level of competitiveness within our own limited pool we&#39;ve somehow managed to stay within the top 5 and have at times managed clear domination as well (&#39;87 we were favourites for the RWC, 91 we earned top spot after NZ were favourites and between 99-02 we the wallbies won every trophy that was on offer).
In contrast, England has by far the largest player pool (6 times both Australia and NZ), yet is consistently one of the most disappointing international sides. So player numbers aren&#39;t everything. If we can start running the game properly again in this country, then things are destined to get better.