Butch or Steyn at 10 [Archive]

cyRil

11-07-08, 12:21 AM

Maybe a backline of 10 - James, 12 - Perc, 13 - Steyn, 15 - Jantjes would have been better?
I think you'd need the controlling influence of Monty there, just incase Butch has another mare, and Steyn has too much talent to be sat on the bench. But then de Villiers is on fire right now, so he'd have to be accomodated! :s
Dropping Jantjes was a pretty stupid thing for PdV to do though as he was the best back for SA last week.

Prestwick

11-07-08, 12:57 AM

InsaneAsylum

11-07-08, 01:39 AM

I wouldn't have Steyn at ten, not unless he learns how to share. He's young and as all young people want to do, he wants to take on the world by himself. He should just relax and some of the older players should remind him of his responsibilities. When he does that his natural talent shines through.

[/b]

exaclty, i think he's got talent, obviously has extraoidinary kicking talent, but just lacks a bit of maturity at test level. give him a few years

KZNSharksFan

11-07-08, 02:17 PM

<div class='quotemain'> I wouldn't have Steyn at ten, not unless he learns how to share. He's young and as all young people want to do, he wants to take on the world by himself. He should just relax and some of the older players should remind him of his responsibilities. When he does that his natural talent shines through.

[/b]

exaclty, i think he's got talent, obviously has extraoidinary kicking talent, but just lacks a bit of maturity at test level. give him a few years
[/b][/quote]

Steyn is a fullback. Though he may want to be a flyhalf, he shouldn't be. FFS I want to be a flyhalf but that isn't going to happen anytime soon now is it.

He needs to play at fullback because when he does play there and someone kicks the ball to him, he f***s them with a dropgoal anywhere <65m. This forces the opposition to kick for touch, where SA's lineout has perennial dominance, thus allowing the game to played in opposition territory, which in turn means that any penalties awarded to SA have a good chance of being turned into points.

Also, once Butch gets used to the new laws and the higher standard of rugby, he'll begin to do what Butch does best, 1)break people 2)begin putting backs into space

shtove

11-07-08, 11:19 PM

Butch had an incredible RWC, but he's not the real deal.

Steyn is the greatest player in the world, but he's got to grow in to it. Last 3N he looked like an idiot at 10, but he'll get there.

KZNSharksFan

12-07-08, 05:20 AM

Butch had an incredible RWC, but he's not the real deal.

Steyn is the greatest player in the world, but he's got to grow in to it. Last 3N he looked like an idiot at 10, but he'll get there.
[/b]

:o :o :o :o :o
Greatest player in the world? What about Carter, McCaw, Habana, Burger, Giteau etc etc. Yes steyn is a fantastic player with mountains of potential but he isn't the greatest player in the world! Carter showed much more talent at steyns age

Steve-o

12-07-08, 06:41 AM

<div class='quotemain'>
Butch had an incredible RWC, but he's not the real deal.

Steyn is the greatest player in the world, but he's got to grow in to it. Last 3N he looked like an idiot at 10, but he'll get there.
[/b]
:o :o :o :o :o
Greatest player in the world? What about Carter, McCaw, Habana, Burger, Giteau etc etc. Yes steyn is a fantastic player with mountains of potential but he isn't the greatest player in the world! Carter showed much more talent at steyns age
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, I agree with KZN as much potential as Steyn has and how highly rated he is no Saffas are labelling him 'the chosen one'.

And Butch not the real deal? He's been showing consistent form atleast 2 years now. Have you seen any Bath games?

Gavin

13-07-08, 08:53 PM

Steyn could become the best player in the world, but it will take time and a few years. To be honesty I wouldn't choose either Butch or Steyn at number ten for the Springboks. Steyn will never become a great fly-half as he is too much like a footballer - he is trying to make a name for himself as an individual, not as a team player. I'd rather prefer Peter Grant at fly-half.

romi

14-07-08, 08:21 AM

Butch at 10 before Steyn.

Jer1cho

14-07-08, 08:26 AM

Steyn, simply because butch doesn't have another world cup left in him. Steyn has another 3...

savundra92

14-07-08, 11:11 AM

I think Peter Grant or Ruan Pienaar could play a 10 but between Butch James and Francois Steyn, if Butch went to fly half, he would need Montgomery at full back for kicking duties. If Steyn was at fly half, I would put Conrad Jantjes at fullback.

orkoza

23-07-08, 03:32 PM

Who's your pick?

I dont see Steyn at 10 and think he would be better at 13. Thats just me. What do you think?
[/b]
i agree Steyn at this moment is not a better flyhalf than butch, maybe in a few years when steyn's desicion making making has inproved and his tactical kicking. At this moment i would like to see him on 12, de villiers on 13, in previous years the ausies and nz has shown the value of a 12 that can kick in gitau, mauger, and mccalister.

rsea

23-07-08, 09:16 PM

Steyn, simply because butch doesn't have another world cup left in him. Steyn has another 3...
[/b]
x2

shtove

23-07-08, 11:47 PM

in previous years the ausies and nz has shown the value of a 12 that can kick in ... mccalister.
[/b]
Good player, but Steyn would have been the one for that last minute drop against France ... There goes the RWC.

Sir Speedy

24-07-08, 02:33 PM

<div class='quotemain'>in previous years the ausies and nz has shown the value of a 12 that can kick in ... mccalister.
[/b]
Good player, but Steyn would have been the one for that last minute drop against France ... There goes the RWC.
[/b][/quote]
The forwards really should have given the ball to him when they were a few metres from the line, not 45 metres away later on. Oh well, too late now.

bates

29-07-08, 08:44 AM

Steyns got enough talent to play any position in the backline but like anyone else he'll need more than 1 game in the position to get it right.
[/b]

second

Lioneye

29-07-08, 09:14 AM

Well Butch isn't in the best of shape this Tri Nations for some reason. I'd say go with Steyn.

Zel

10-08-08, 12:31 PM

Easilty Butch... Backup Grant... and then Pienaar.. (I know he hasn't played there much but from what I've seen, very capable!)

Steyn is gifted but should be played at centre or fullback..

thomas

10-08-08, 12:44 PM

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Butch had an incredible RWC, but he's not the real deal.

Steyn is the greatest player in the world, but he's got to grow in to it. Last 3N he looked like an idiot at 10, but he'll get there.
[/b]
:o :o :o :o :o
Greatest player in the world? What about Carter, McCaw, Habana, Burger, Giteau etc etc. Yes steyn is a fantastic player with mountains of potential but he isn't the greatest player in the world! Carter showed much more talent at steyns age
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, I agree with KZN as much potential as Steyn has and how highly rated he is no Saffas are labelling him 'the chosen one'.

And Butch not the real deal? He's been showing consistent form atleast 2 years now. Have you seen any Bath games? [/b][/quote]

Steyn somehow makes me think of JM Hernandez of the Pumas, same hability to play great at fullback and FH, and Stade Francais's (former) coach Fabien Galthie said once about Hernandez that he was awesome FB but a bit risk-taking at FH ... playing too much for himself, trying to make a difference on his own,

This goes well for Steyn as well, the guy should be forbidden to play anywhere else than FB, because THERE, and only there can he brings the danger, and plays the most of his skills for the boks (or the Sharks)

steynboi

10-08-08, 01:25 PM

butch.

drop jantjes put montgomery at 15 and leave steyn at center. when monty retires move steyn to 15 and bring in another center like fourie.

ollybarkley

15-08-08, 03:03 AM

I'm in agreement with a lot of the other posters here.

Steyn IMO is a FB or a 13, where he can run with ball in hand and play off the cuff. I too equate him with Hernandez of the Puma's, in that he is a prodigious talent, but he can also go rogue on you, and at 10 you can't have that.

Butch has struggled this 3N, but you do know that he has the experience to get teh job done, which can't be said about too many of the current options. What is needed is a decision on whether you want to try and win now, or develop a new 10 for WC11.

Grant, RPiennar, or even Morne Steyn if he hadn't left for Leicester would be options in that sense, in my opinion, although I think of the 3, M. Steyn is my favourite. I view Grant as too limited and RPiennar a better fit at 15 then 10.

Think Percy is holding on right now, but that Jantes should be wearing the #15 jumper, as he has looked good in the matches that I have seen. Think Percy is lacking a yard of pace at this point.

finki

17-08-08, 07:12 AM

James is now better.

blougeorge

09-10-08, 02:28 PM

I think steyn should play 10 beacause of his massive kicking boot.

Canuck-Backrow

09-10-08, 09:44 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steynboi @ Aug 10 2008, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ('index.php?act=findpost&pid=340579')</div>
butch.

drop jantjes put montgomery at 15 and leave steyn at center. when monty retires move steyn to 15 and bring in another center like fourie.[/b]
I totally agree

Jantjes is shit imo

Prestwick

09-10-08, 09:54 PM

Surely Butch James should get the nod at ten thanks to his now comprehensive world wide Rugby education playing for some of the worlds most illustrious club sides in South Africa and the North.

I definitely think he has what it takes and it'll be his skill and intelligence that'll get Bath to the final stages where, hopefully, he'll help to complete Dan Carter's rather rude reality check that is being thrown head first into a raging Heineken Cup competition...

ChiefsFan

10-10-08, 09:39 AM

Neither.

Peter Grant should be the No.10. How old is he?

Prestwick

10-10-08, 12:52 PM

Well according to Heyneke Meyer, Derick Hougaard should have been the number one fly-half for South Africa.

Your thoughts?

Jer1cho

10-10-08, 01:47 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Well according to Heyneke Meyer, Derick Hougaard should have been the number one fly-half for South Africa.

Your thoughts?[/b]

Was that before Brian Lima ended his career in 2003? Because after that tackle i swear he was never the same again... Have a look at how far away from the action he stands so that he can hoof the ball away with lots of time before getting flattened... Seriously though, he is crap. Morne Steyn, Peter Grant, Butch and Steyn are better than him.

Boggle

10-10-08, 01:50 PM

I never understood why people thought Derrick Hougaard was a brilliant flyhalf, he's always seemed pretty crap to me.

he doesn't actually -do- anything other than place kick at goal.

Prestwick

10-10-08, 02:14 PM

So thats why Leicester Tigers were happy to buy him up.

Place kick at goal seems to be basically all that Tigers want in a fly-half usually. In any case, they have Flood for the more dynamic stuff which knowing Tigers usually extends to amazing things like "passing" and occasionally running past a player instead of straight into him.

Going off topic but I'm still shocked that Tigers haven't bought Tindall and Nonu and attempted to pair the two block-heads together....maybe someone at Tigers HQ was drunk and thought Nonu had changed his name to Mauger?

Steve-o

18-10-08, 06:10 AM

Meyer's always had a 'thing' for Hougaard. Nobody else really rated, alot of Bulls fans have slowing started losing faith in him since 2005, or atleast the one's I know. Morne Steyn's emergence has been a breath of fresh air for the Bulls backline, and they've got a very able replacement in their new up and coming flyhalf (I think the name's Burton?).

BTW I think the CC final next saturday will make or break M.Steyn's chances of touring with the Boks in the EOY tour. Well atleast I think so, I still think Grant is more favoured by PdV though

savundra92

06-01-09, 05:54 PM

Ruan Pienaar ahead of Butch or Steyn. Butch is good but SA need a young player for the future. That is where Steyn is good. but i think incide centre is more suited to steyn. Pienaar can play fly half and he my 1st choice at five-eighth.