A great big Munster thread

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Did you read what Ronan O'Gara had to say about Munster's present backrow?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...e-3078905.html

If you look at the back-row of Quinlan, Wallace, Foley, Jim Williams, that calibre probably isn't there at the minute, to be honest about it.

While there's a lot of truth in his statement, it's hardly a vote of confidence in those around him. It was pointed out aptly on another forum that O'Gara is quick to diagnose problems in others but hasn't exactly applied those same standards to himself. During the 6 Nations for example, he was telling all who'd listen that he's Ireland's best flyhalf. While confidence is necessary in a flyhalf, perhaps O'Gara needs a reality check. The Ronan O'Gara of 2012 isn't as good as the Ronan O'Gara of 2006-2008. He's now a game manager (a good one it must be said) who's incapable of breaking, tackling and bringing those outside him into play. When you pick O'Gara, you need a babysitter at 12 to tacklet for him. Lifiemi Mafi and next season James Downey aren't the creative forces Munster need but they're the big bruisers O'Gara needs so that his limitations aren't exposed.

[big ginger 8]

In fairness he does have a good pass but I get what your saying.

[munstermuffin]

Did you read what Ronan O'Gara had to say about Munster's present backrow?



While there's a lot of truth in his statement, it's hardly a vote of confidence in those around him. It was pointed out aptly on another forum that O'Gara is quick to diagnose problems in others but hasn't exactly applied those same standards to himself. During the 6 Nations for example, he was telling all who'd listen that he's Ireland's best flyhalf. While confidence is necessary in a flyhalf, perhaps O'Gara needs a reality check. The Ronan O'Gara of 2012 isn't as good as the Ronan O'Gara of 2006-2008. He's now a game manager (a good one it must be said) who's incapable of breaking, tackling and bringing those outside him into play. When you pick O'Gara, you need a babysitter at 12 to tacklet for him. Lifiemi Mafi and next season James Downey aren't the creative forces Munster need but they're the big bruisers O'Gara needs so that his limitations aren't exposed.

Snoop he had a point but as you say he has to look long and hard at himself. Too much time spent this week talking in media etc. Our backrow have alot of young guys learning their trade compared with Quinlan, Williams etc who were all really at a higher level for ROG's time. And probably more tougher as they came through AIL as opposed to academy.
But again he needs to cut the lip, as I possibly think he a bit effected by all talk down in Cork and Limerick (based on last Sunday) being fans want money thrown at Madigan in a gamble to get him down. And as you say confidence is key and I think ROG is now feeling the heat of realising he's moving with time and is trying bit too hard to stay in media spotlight.

[Gavin]

Throwing a lot of money to get Madigan would make complete sense for Munster and Ireland. With Sexton the first choice No.10 at Leinster, Madigan won't get as much game time as he could if he joined Munster and ROG was placed on the bench to act in the same way as he does for Ireland. Two young, top quality No.10's would be playing constantly for their clubs and it would make the battle for the Ireland 10 jersey a lot better. In saying that Leinster would be affected, especially during the International window, with Sexton away and Madigan elsewhere.

[big ginger 8]

Madigan at Munster wouldn't work completely different gameplan and different players. I also think his skillset would suffer as Schmidt is one of the best coaches for the basics and Munster don't have an attack coach. It would be like Sexton with Ireland.

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

In fairness he does have a good pass but I get what your saying.

He does have a good pass but he flings them out from 10 metres behind the gain line and since he can't break, defenders just drift onto the outside backs.

If Munster fans want Madigan, they should be careful what they wish for. He's the polar opposite of O'Gara. Everything O'Gara excels at, Madigan needs to work on but Madigan's stengths are in areas where O'Gara is woefully inadequate. Maybe Madigan working with O'Gara for a year would benefit the younger player. Against that, we said the exact same thing 12 months ago about Ian Keatley. Keatley is no better off from his move to Munster than he would be had he stayed at Connacht (in much the same way that Jamie Hagan probably regrets moving back to Leinster).

[munstermuffin]

Throwing a lot of money to get Madigan would make complete sense for Munster and Ireland. With Sexton the first choice No.10 at Leinster, Madigan won't get as much game time as he could if he joined Munster and ROG was placed on the bench to act in the same way as he does for Ireland. Two young, top quality No.10's would be playing constantly for their clubs and it would make the battle for the Ireland 10 jersey a lot better. In saying that Leinster would be affected, especially during the International window, with Sexton away and Madigan elsewhere.

Well few issues there,
1) Snoop might know better but Madigan has couple of seasons left on his Leinster contract (not 100% sure)
2) Madigan is excelling in Schmidts gameplan and I'd ask can we play that way and would we suit Madigan and vice versa.
3) Have heard Madigan is as cocky and arrogant as ROG and if so I'm sure he'd fancy his chances at possibly pushing Sexton out (or possibly to 12)

Regardless, Madigan may benefit from fact Schmidt seems to get all these guys plenty of gametime to excel and may rotate Madigan in HEC games and big ML games from next season to aid his development and well it strange for Leinster who produced so much crap in 10 shirt for a spell to now really be producing plenty in that position.

[munstermuffin]

He does have a good pass but he flings them out from 10 metres behind the gain line and since he can't break, defenders just drift onto the outside backs.

If Munster fans want Madigan, they should be careful what they wish for. He's the polar opposite of O'Gara. Everything O'Gara excels at, Madigan needs to work on but Madigan's stengths are in areas where O'Gara is woefully inadequate. Maybe Madigan working with O'Gara for a year would benefit the younger player. Against that, we said the exact same thing 12 months ago about Ian Keatley. Keatley is no better off from his move to Munster than he would be had he stayed at Connacht (in much the same way that Jamie Hagan probably regrets moving back to Leinster).

Can agree with that Snoop and well if the 2 lads and Carr stayed at Connacht for extra season they would've got plenty of experience in Heineken Cup and more big games

[Feicarsinn]

If Madigan were to go anywhere in Ireland he should go to Ulster. He just wouldn't suit Munster, no disrespect to either party.

Rog's comment further underline what a massive twat he is. There were two young lads playing in the backrow the other day. They do not need one of the supposed leaders in the Munster team picking on them in their first season in the team. Quite the opposite really. He should get a bit of cop on and keep his gob shut, especially considering he was muck against Ulster.

It's a shame that Keatley has been such a disappointment this season, because I think Rog's attitude is doing Munster no favours at the moment.

[munstermuffin]

Great win and well we a work in progress. But Snoop ROG's problem is Axel has backed youth and if it is himself and Umaga put in next season they will have steel to drop anyone including ROG and he doesn't like that.
Keatley may improve but I think he really needs to step up in same fashion as Madigan and well put scenario where he's good enough for big games.
Just on tonight too POM man of match and super display

[Peat]

If Madigan were to go anywhere in Ireland he should go to Ulster. He just wouldn't suit Munster, no disrespect to either party.

Rog's comment further underline what a massive twat he is. There were two young lads playing in the backrow the other day. They do not need one of the supposed leaders in the Munster team picking on them in their first season in the team. Quite the opposite really. He should get a bit of cop on and keep his gob shut, especially considering he was muck against Ulster.

It's a shame that Keatley has been such a disappointment this season, because I think Rog's attitude is doing Munster no favours at the moment.

Madigan's a class act and would probably improve us, but if we can't develop a fly-half of our out of 3 years (likely to be 4) of supply the Irish U20 fly-half, we shouldn't be allowed to kack-up Madigan either. Munster would just put him in the same position as Keatley. Madigan's in the right place for him at this moment.

In fairness and in criticism to Rogina, it's easy to look great as a kicking fly-half - hell, any flavour of fly-half - when your pack is winning, and not so easy when its not. I don't think he's changed as a player much tbh. Should be saying what he did out loud? Probably not, but its true,

[irelandfan123]

Mick O'Driscoll to retire
http://www.herald.ie/sport/other-spo...r-3082533.html

[lucky number 7]

Mafi's flick pass the other day got me erect

[big ginger 8]

Mick O'Driscoll to retire
http://www.herald.ie/sport/other-spo...r-3082533.html

Thought that was announced a while ago?

Good servant for them over the years.

[cmac95]

I've hated him since him and Buckley lost Ireland the "Aviva" opening match against S.A.

[munstermuffin]

It was common knowledge Big G but it just got the "official" release today.

[Irishflanker]

Anyone have any news on the interviews so far, or really just how much of a chance Rob Penny has of getting the Munster gig?

[psychic duck]

Australia have confirmed Tony McGahan as "Coaching Coordinator", along with Andrew Blades as forwards coach and Nick Scrivener as backs coach

[profitius]

Lots of rumours that Rob Penny will be the new Munster coach. He would be my choice so I hope they're true.

[ttankk]

Is Munster Rugby in a crisis?

Many people over social-media, blogs and forums are voicing their concerns at the state Munster Rugby are finding themselves in and how the future looks bleak. I understand that Munster fans (I am one myself) are worried because of the lack of silverware the last few years especially the Heineken cup including this years exit to Ulster which has been disappointing especially with the last Heineken cup triumph in 2008 but we must remember teams must go through change. Players leave, retire and management changes all of which contribute to results on the field. I want to look at the squad we have and I am just going to voice my opinion because I believe Munster are in the process of building a squad with serious strength in dept. I will make my recommendations but again these my opinions I don’t expect everyone to agree.
I am going to start and look at the Munster pack which in the past has always been the focal point of attack for victorious Munster teams. To look at the options of Munster's props would dishearten many fans with the fact that we can’t field a strong enough Irish front three that can compete is upsetting but is rife throughout the Irish provinces. We are lucky to have a dominating tight head prop in BJ Botha who I believe to be a top notch scrimmage. Wian Du Prees for me was an unknown quantity when he first arrived but I feel he has developed well and adapted to suit the intensity of European rugby and comes from a super rugby franchise the cheetahs known for producing props. After that we start to slide in quality, I don’t blame that on the players in question I blame the lack of game time afforded to them over the years. Stephan Archer was talked about for years and really excelled in the AIL but to be honest was never given the exposure at a young age which is needed now a days. Peter Borlase was another New Zealander brought in but wasn’t good enough for super Rugby so what made us think he would be for European is beyond me. Everything I have seen (little due to injury) says flop but hopefully his stint in Connacht will prove me wrong. Finally David Kilcoyne and John Ryan have been putting in some good performances for the A team who are in the final of the British and Irish cup after beating Leinster. Says a lot in my opinion of the youth coming through.
Hooker is a jersey that has been changing hands continuously over the years with the recently retired Jerry Flannery constantly having to battle back from injury. Damien Varley is the outright starter in my opinion but Mike Sherry who I like a lot is not far behind and has been handed the starting jersey over the last while. Then we have Sean Henry who is an average club player and then a young up and coming player in the form of Duncan Casey. May not been known to most but anyone that follows the Irish club scene will know him from Shannon RFC. Has been injured for the later part of the season but one to look out for.

Second row I think is a position of strength for the province with the stalwarts of POC and DOC still putting in international standard performances and then with emergence of Donnacha Ryan pushing for a starting place week in week out at provincial and international level. The retirement of Mick O'Driscoll I think will benefit us and give game time to Ian Nagle who I believe to have some serious potential and Dave Foley highly regarded in the Munster ranks.

The back row is where I will agree with most we may have a problem. David Wallace and Denis leamy are not getting any younger and have both been hit by injuries the last few years. The bright light for Munster being the emergence of Peter O’Mahony but the dilemma being where to play him 6 or 7. I think he fits perfectly into the number 7 mould and should be the outright successor to Wallace at Munster and Ireland if he continues to progress. James Coughlan is a no nonsense sort of player and has been putting his hand up to be included in Declan Kidneys plans for New Zealand. After that we have Niall Ronan who I believe to be a good player not international standard. Billy Holland who has been plying his trade with A’s for most of the season but we do have two young players in the form of Dave O Callaghan and Paddy Butler who both played together at Irish U20 level and both have promising carriers ahead of them providing they can get game time. I would like to the signing of a world class number 8 which I believe would be a great addition to the team.

Now for the backs and starting with nine and ten, people have been saying that Conor Murray isn’t as good as people make him out to be and that Eoin Reddan is better. That absolute nonsense, Reddan Shines because of the higher calibre of Backs he has at his disposal and slightly more experience Back rowers. Murray is the future and will the Irish number 9 for many years to come. Now we do need a top quality back up, O’Leary is leaving and that leaves Duncan Williams who is unproven and the returning Stringer who I love and believe to have one of the best passes in the game but is on his last legs. I’m sorry to say it but ROG has to move aside yes he got us to the knock out stages this year holds numerous personal records but we can’t rely on him anymore. Also it’s preventing us grooming a successor which at the moment looks like Ian Keatley. I think he definitely has potential but needs to be given game time now so that he can work on his weaker aspects such as game management. It’s being done in Leinster with Ian Madigan who I would love to see at Munster. He is ahead of Keatley in development and that’s down to Joe Schmidt who has encouraged him to play without fear and not worry about making mistakes. In my opinion it will be scandalous if he is not included for New Zealand ahead of ROG.

Now to the centres, I am one of the many Irish people who have always said Earls should stick to the wing. I must admit though I am being converted the man has bulked up and worked hard on his defensive side of things and has pace to burn at outside centre. Inside centre again looks like it will be filled by another New Zealander in Casey Laulala or James Downey an old school centre. Both in the last few years of their carriers though. I do believe we have some young Irish players with real potential coming through in the next year. Danny Barnes has shown glimpses of what he is capable of in the last year or two and after a stunning u20 six nations JJ Hanrahan who can play outhalf but is looking like having the ability to be top class centre will definitely be seeing senior action next season. The wings is another position I believe we don’t need any help in just some patience with possibly the greatest ever overseas signing Howlett returning next year who will nurture and help with the development of Simon Zebo and Luke O’Dea. Zebo has shown a real nose for the try line and a change in speed not seen in Munster for a while; with some work needed defensively he is not far off international standard. Luke O’Dea who has signed a pro contract for next season after a handful of tries in his debut season has really shown promise. He is clinical has real speed and a serious tackler for his size, a real prospect for the future. Also John Murphy is not a bad player to have in your squad. Full back then is a position I think again with a little patience could prove to be so strong over the coming years with Felix Jones really starting to develop into a good looking fullback after returning from injury. We also have ever consistent Denis Hurley and the young Sean Scanlon.
So to finish, do I believe we need to make major chances and go into panic mode and buy buy buy? NO, I think with a little patience and support I can really see Munster becoming a dominant force again in the League and Europe. Just to add who I would like to see as the next munster coach , Axel is a great choice but I feel still needs guidance. Most important is no matter who comes in a quality backs coach is essential to get the best out of the young backline we have which posses bags of potential.

Out

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I hope Rob Penney stuck around after the Baby Blacks demolition of Samoa and watched Ireland v South Africa. If he did, he'd have seen a hugely promising performance from JJ Hanrahan. He's good enough to start at 12 immediately in my opinion and long term, could be an option at 10 for both his province and his country. When he attacks with the ball, he's reminiscent of Felipe Contepomi. He has kinks in his game (carrying the ball under one arm, sitting too deep when under pressure) but the tools are there for him to become a cracking player.

[munstermuffin]

I hope Rob Penney stuck around after the Baby Blacks demolition of Samoa and watched Ireland v South Africa. If he did, he'd have seen a hugely promising performance from JJ Hanrahan. He's good enough to start at 12 immediately in my opinion and long term, could be an option at 10 for both his province and his country. When he attacks with the ball, he's reminiscent of Felipe Contepomi. He has kinks in his game (carrying the ball under one arm, sitting too deep when under pressure) but the tools are there for him to become a cracking player.

Snoop agree 100%. He isn't a complete 10 but I really think with gametime in Rabo he could really fast track himself in to a quality player. JJ had a good season this year but can have bad games too and if he finds consistency he is certainly an option.

[big ginger 8]

Despite going well at 10 today I'd like to see Hanrahan develop more as a 12. Obviously he should still be able to play 10 but we're low on 12's and he's the sort of 12 I like to have.

[Feicarsinn]

Muster have appointed Niall O'Donovan as team manager. It's a classic Munster appointment, in that it's very much in house. I do not approve.

Also, there are some disturbing figures coming out of the province about their finances. Apparently they made a loss of 1 million quid. Ridiculous in the circumstances, but hardly surprising. Looking at their recent imports in comparison to both Ulster and Leinster you would have to imagine that things aren't running all that smoothly down south. And they still owe the IRFU 10 million quid for Thomond Park.

[irelandfan123]

Its gunna be strange with Paulie not captaining anymore, even for an Ulster fan, its strange ..... Now the 3 last captains of Ireland don't even captain their province

[big ginger 8]

It's the right decision not having frontline internationals as captain with them not available for so long.

[osulli mi]

Plus Doug is the man

[big ginger 8]

Plus Doug is the man

He's also 34 and just back from a long term injury. But Munster didn't really have many options.

[osulli mi]

Still a boss

[big ginger 8]

Still a boss

Not denying that.