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http://www.espnscrum.com/newzealand/...ry/138448.htmlThe New Zealand Rugby Union are growing increasingly exasperated with the pursuit of their top players by Irish provinces and accused the Irish Rugby Football Union of aiding All Black defections.
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Yeah...it's true.
But they're not coming for money, it's for the lovely weather.
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and people say it's the Aviva clubs poaching all the SH talent
€400k a year is a lot of cake!
Lads that is a whole load of BS. No player is on 400k from their salary with IRFU or provinces. Maybe they are when you add in their sponsor deals but this isn't a hard point.
Yes they come for the money because it so much better in NH but you can hardly blame them for that and how the hell can you single out Ireland in this issue
Well they have ... what you going to do about it
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Its the French who are making all the big name signings.
Originally Posted by TRF_Cymro
Well they have ... what you going to do about it
We know people
Is this news? Irish provinces like having All Blacks in their squads. Well who doesn't?
While I'm not surprised that they picked out Ireland (who do like their SH names) you raise a fair point. The big names are more likely than not going to end up in the Top 14 sides rather than Ireland.
The Scottish.
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Boo ****ing hoo
Money talks if a guy wholeheartedly wants to stay and play for his club he will if he doesn't want to stay at home what use is he to the team?
The only top quality NZ player in ireland at the moment off the top of my head is Dougie Howlet
ss
This is a storm in a teacup.
Honestly - this is the first I have heard about this so-called "exasperation" re Irish Clubs.
Kiwis are used to it.
If its not the Irish, its the French, or the Japanese, or the Welsh, or the English etc.
We will always lose players from NZ, thats just a fact.
No big deal though; more will come through- they always do.
Last edited by FlukeArtist; 18-04-11 at 12:01 AM.
NZ in Ireland (or to come too, that have been brought directly from NZ)
Peter Borlase
Lifeimi Mafi
Matt Berqusit
Erza Taylor
Troy Nathan
Miah Nikora
Fetu'u Vainikolo
John Afoa
Jared Payne
Bernie Upton
Rodney Ah You
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should Nz feel hard done by ?
ss
No but pointing out there are a few NZ players there.
Wales:
Jerry Collins
Marty Holah
Jamie Nutbrown
Tom Willis
Ben Castle
Michael Paterson
Paul Tito
Xavier Rush
Casey Laulala
Ben Blair
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It seems like a lot sure, but it's no worse than the situation in Wales, the only other nation our teams can really be compared to:
Jerry Collins
Marty Holah
Jamie Nutbrown
Kahn Fotuali'i
Tom Willis
Ben Castle
Nigel Hall
Michael Paterson
Paul Tito
Casey Laulala
Ben Blair
Xavier Rush
Regan King
Either way, it strikes me as bit odd that they called us up on it in particular.
I don't think they did mate; as I say- this is the first I have heard of this.
Hall came from Nottingham and King via Clermont and Khan is Samoan
+ plus I posted the list before
Last edited by TRF_Cymro; 18-04-11 at 12:07 AM.
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Lets just put it this way -
Munster signed
Howlett - Was told he was over the hill by NZRU and should look abroad
Mafi - Had no chance of being All Black
Tuitupou - Was in SH already
Borlaise - Massive loss and would've been a starter in All Blacks jersey (Them Franks brothers are lucky
Leinster
Nacewa - Can't play for All Blacks and well they seemed to let him go easy enough
Connacht - It a sad sight if NZRU are accusing Connacht of being a cause
And as for the arrivals not here yet, they might be good but hardly at All Blacks expense
it's probably because both unions discussed it in June so the NZRU are a little hurt or betrayed by it hah, whereas they don't seem to have talked with the French, English, Welsh etc. it's still a little odd considering the calibre of NZ players aren't that high in Ireland. it could also be that the IRFU agreed with the NZRU that the high salaries being dished out weren't right and then they went ahead and did something similar. but if what Munstermuffin said about the salaries is true then again it's pretty strange...
The reason they can point at the IRFU and none of the others is that the IRFU actually helps with the money for overseas signings which no other union does if I recall correctly.
English by birth, Ulster by love of funny accents
Much Ado about Rucking - http://muchadoaboutrucking.blogspot.co.uk/ - cos you just loved reading the post above
Meh. I don't think the NZRU should complain. New Zealand will never be able to offer the financial security that clubs in the NH can. That's a fact. I'm a big Cory Jane fan, but if he no longer feels the pull of the All Blacks is enough to keep him in New Zealand after a RWC, I can understand thay, especially with a child on the way. It's more depressing to me losing John Afoa, as he is starting to show some class, and props only get better with age, which leaving so young in propping terms, I think the NZRU have been in some ways have a right to be annoyed, as NZ will never get to see the best of him.
With that in mind, there are loads of players who leave Samoa, Tonga and Fiji to play in New Zealand, and a part of that is because rugby is a professional game here. Most All Blacks from those countries, have lived here longer than they've played rugby, but there are quite a lot in the NPC and lower devisions that haven't. It's just part of a game being professional, and oppertunities to provide for yourself and your family often will outweigh your own ambitions.
An arguement that the signings won't really hurt the All Blacks is a little silly however. munstermuffin has said the new signings won't hurt the All Blacks, but they will. Other than the fact, that Afoa and Jane are high quality players, who have taken many years to become as good as they are, it is irrelevant if they are All Black starters or not. It all comes down to depth. The Hurricanes are performing poorly at the moment, but would they be performing as poorly with Jerry Collins, Chris Masoe, Jimmy Gopperth, Paul Titio, Michael Paterson, Liefimi Mafi as back up? Succcess of a country comes down to depth, and having a strong and experienced player pool always helps a national squad, and it is a key difference between New Zealand's back up's, and Ireland's and Wales, where one injury to a player means the backup is usually of a much lower quality.
Last edited by TRF_nickdnz; 18-04-11 at 03:34 AM.
I don't want to make a joke out of a serious issue. But nobody should ever want Paul Tito in their squad. I don't think I've ever been impressed by him.
And you didn't see us complaining when David Gannon was over with Southland in 2009 for the Air New Zealand Cup. I hear he was being paid the equivalent of €7million for that one season.
But the issue with Ireland does seem to be that the IRFU were gobbing off about the Frenchies and then they assist with the bringing of Players to Ireland and high wages (probably exaggerated amounts in the media, but still high) .
Last edited by monkeypigeon; 18-04-11 at 07:54 AM.
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But IRFU fund our clubs unlike others. That should be no reason for singling out IRFU
What about the Leslie brothers and the "kilted Kiwis"?
Either way, there was an article from stuff.co.nz where Pat Lam pointed out the on average S15 teams pay about €100,000 per year. They cant compete with the salaries even on offer in Ireland.
Unrealistic to expect the rest of the world to sit there and leave them alone. Especially as they always beat us, and Paddy O'Brien is their fault.
Last edited by Logorrhea; 18-04-11 at 08:56 AM.
Of course I was referring to the clubs today, should have been clearer.
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can't be anything more than about the IRFU going back on some agreement they made with the NZRFU. Much as being an Irish province puts you at a huge advantage when it comes to churning out top-class HC teams, it's mainly Irish talent that gets them there. As has already been said, Howlett's the only classy New Zealander in Ireland at the moment - the likes of Tuitupou and Mafi you can find ten a penny of in New Zealand, they're hardly going to be missed, and nobody's going to turn up at a club game in NZ specifically to watch them play (besides maybe their girlfriend..)
I look at the All Blacks and I see heaps of players, especially backs, who'd walk into NH international sides and can't even get into the AB touring party. The coaching setup and rugby culture you have down there means you'll never be lacking in depth at international level. Nick Evans and Glen Jackson are arguably the best 10s to play premiership rugby in the past decade, and neither of them have been missed by the All Blacks.
At Super Rugby level? Tough shit. I agree that sides like the Hurricanes would benefit from having the likes of Collins still around, but if they can't succeed when they've got Weepu, Nonu, Gear, Smith, Jane etc etc. then it's them to blame, not Europe.
Nick Evans not being missed by the All Blacks? If there is one player in the world that the All Blacks could use, it would be Nick Evans. Fair points in general though, although the Canes problem comes from not having the forwards to dominate, not the backs.
I don't believe the issue is with Irish Provinces per se poaching NZ talent, its that they are doing so with the financial assistance of the IRFU; that is the bone of contention. Apart from John Afoa, it looks suspiciousy like the IRFU buying players to become future Irish Internationals. As soon as Jared Payne was mentioned, some Irish media already had him the the Ireland squad, and he's still playing here in NZ!!
However, I think FlukeArtist is right. As long ago as 2000 the doomsayers were predicting that the European Clubs would gut NZ of talent and that we would begin a steady slide down the rankings as all the talent ends up in Europe. The British Media made jokes about the last player leaving NZ to turn off the lights. Well the joke is on them, because it hasn't happened, and shows no sign of doing so. New Zealand could field a "second 22" side that could beat any International team in Europe except England and France, who they would likely be the equal of.
However, it is about time that the NZRU took steps to protect their investment. They must be heartily sick of paying to develop these players only to be out-priced by EuroCash.
I would like to see them adopt a similar system, that the military do here, a "return of service" for the money invested. When the military send a member on a course of training, the member must sign a contract guaranteeing they they will not apply for a discharge for a period of time after they return. For example, when I was posted to Moffat Naval Air Station in California in 1985 for a maintenance course on the (then) new Orion Doppler Radar, I had to contract for three years on my return, so that the Air Force got a return on their investment. If I wanted out before that time, I would have to buy out of my contract.
Similarly, I think NZ rugby players should be signing a minimum four year contract before they are even allowed to set foot on the field in an ITM Cup. At this point, they begin to accrue a "dollar value" commensurate with the amount of money the NZRU spend on their development. If they get selected for Super Rugby, they sign another minimum four year contract (which encompasses the ITM Cup contract) and their dollar value goes up accordingly. Get selected for the All Blacks, another four year contract (encompassing the previous two) and a further increase in their value.
If at any time, a player decides they want to play in Europe or another country, they must buy out of their contract, or have their new club buy them out. For example, a player like Jared Payne might have an accumulated value to the NZRU of $350K plus whatever time he had to run on his contract, say another three years at $100K p.a.
Ulster might balk at having to pay a transfer fee to the NZRU of $650K on top of whatever they offer him, but if they decide he is worth it, the NZRU at least gets $650K to help pay for the next cab off the rank.
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