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Yeah i no its silly considering ive watched it before but are for example wellington exactly the same team as the hurricanes in the super 15 but just a different name and shirt. Or is the itm cup based on younger players. Thats pretty much it.
The ITM cup is like the New Zealand Premiership or French league. The regional Super Rugby sides do not compete, although the same players are involved as part of the feeder clubs (e.g. Nonu plays for Wellington Lions)
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The ITM Cup (previously Air New Zealand Cup) replaces the former National Provincial Championship Division One competition. The NPC competition, played across three divisions, was introduced in 1976, with finals introduced in 1992. Twenty seven teams, each representing a provincial union, make up the competition across three divisions. New Zealand's provincial unions are (from north to south): Northland, North Harbour, Auckland, Counties Manukau, Thames Valley, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, East Coast, Poverty Bay, Hawke's Bay, King Country, Taranaki, Manawatu, Wanganui, Waiararapa-Bush, Horowhenua-Kapiti, Wellington, Nelson Bays, Marlborough, Buller, West Coast, Canterbury, Mid Canterbury, South Canterbury, North Otago, Otago and Southland. The Super Rugby franchises (Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes, Crusaders and Highlanders) are linked to their member unions. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_R...as#New_Zealand
All Blacks 2010 season highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSiDp-xMvV4
OH i see that helps a lot thanks
These players are all professional. But when I was there I noticed that the NPC season is pretty short. What do these players do for the rest of the year?
There's nothing I hate more than a skinny small flanker who is to **** to play anywhere else and to retarded to realise he can't play anywhere. That, and the totalitarian bourgeoisie regime of this forum.
Originally Posted by Jayatron These players are all professional. But when I was there I noticed that the NPC season is pretty short. What do these players do for the rest of the year? Yeah, it doesn't overlap with the Super Rugby season at all and especially with the world cup this year it only has a very small window. Most of them are more like semi-professional, especially in the smaller teams. They would be paid a fair amount for 3 months work but they could not live on it. Most would have other jobs of some description and would spend the rest f the year playing club rugby.
to add to what everyone has said, the 2011 itm cup is a shorter competition because of the world cup year (no semifinals, a few midweek games) it has 14 teams, but is split into a premiership (top 7 teams in 2010 ITM cup) and a championship (the bottom 7 teams in 2010 ITM cup), and all teams play every team within their division once and then four more games against teams from the other division. at the end of round play the top two from each division play a final and the bottom team in premiership gets relegated to the championship and replaced by the team who came 1st in the championship.
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The ITM Cup is New Zealands main rugby competition. There are 14 teams in this years ITM cup, which are then split into two pools of 7 teams. The ITM Cup seems to be changing its format around often in the past years, this year will bring a shorter version because of the world cup. The super rugby franchises are made up of all the ITM cup players, as provinces combine to create a super rugby team, ie the Highlanders are made up mainly of Southland, Otago and North Otago players, but also have players from manawatu and Hawks Bay and other provinces, but they play for Southland, Otago and North otago supporters. The Ranferly Sheild is played for in warm up matchs and in the ITM cup, the team that holds the RS must accept a challenge when they play another team on there own home game, not including finals. These matches often bring in bigger crowds and really hype the competition up, as it is a very hard trophy to win and hold on to.
SR franchises in NZ are starting to become a problem.. At first i thought it was great to support the 'BLUES' in SR.. Until NPC time came.. Then Auckland would play North Harbour..... Now you have 2 sets of fans having to support a faux REGIONAL franchise? Get rid of the 5 SR franchises... Use the top 5 NPC teams in the Top tier of the NPC to play in a HC style SR tournament... Get the crowds back!
^^^^^^^ yeah good point dont think it would work to well tho, would take star players out of the smaller unions, generate too big of a gap between the bigger unions and the smaller ones. ITM cup is optimized at the moment where star players can play for there province and also play for a big franchise team.
But John.. Its too much of a burden of the finances on of NZRU.. And as can be seen.. Support for the SR franchises seem to be shrinking..Look at the crowds.. Removes an extra tier and then goes back to the importance of the NZ DOMESTIC scene... Increases the tribilism thats ALREADY There.. Not some made up SR franchise rivalries. And talking about increasing gaps.... The GAPS were already there.. Since 1976... There have been 8 different winners.. Waikato, Aucks, Cantabs, Otago, Lions, BOP, Turbos, Counties. HOWEVER.. Since PROFESSIONALISM in 1995.. Only 5 winners... Waikato, Cantabs, Otago, Lions and Cantabs.. The big 5. Auckland - 7 Canterbury - 6 Waikato - 1 Wellington - 1 Otago - 1
yes but what you were saying is to take the 5 top teams and play them in a higher level competition, the ITM cup is about the regions, if a star player new he wouldnt get quality game time in a top level game playing for his region then he would most likly move to a better team to get recognisied for greater honors. and we all know what top 5 teams would be the players options. atleast SR still alows star players to play for there province, and still get selected to play for a joint provincial team, and play high level rugby. thus keeping a higher level of rugby in the ITM cup.
Originally Posted by John101 atleast SR still alows star players to play for there province. but they dont, im thinking Byron and Tom willis from otago to the waikato or any number of guys moving to canterbury or auckland, if more were like cruden and stayed with their home union then no probs but they all feel they care more likely to get pciked for a super team in a winning npc team I think rewarding the five top teams from NPC would give them somehting to play for a reason to spill i pint of blood just to scrape into fifth, at the moment if they lose a couple of games....oh well, we'll re group next year I believe more locals would stay with their teams if they thought THEY could lead THEIR local team into super rugby
Originally Posted by kovana SR franchises in NZ are starting to become a problem.. At first i thought it was great to support the 'BLUES' in SR.. Until NPC time came.. Then Auckland would play North Harbour..... Now you have 2 sets of fans having to support a faux REGIONAL franchise? Get rid of the 5 SR franchises... Use the top 5 NPC teams in the Top tier of the NPC to play in a HC style SR tournament... Get the crowds back! I like the idea of a Heineken Cup style competition replacing super rugby but Australia not having a domestic competition is the biggest hurdle to that one. The problem is if you put the best five ITM Cup teams into a full super rugby competition then at present many All Blacks would miss out on super rugby. The ITM Cup would once more be dominated by five unions or else it would be disastrous for the All Blacks with top players not playing at super rugby level. There is a massive skill difference between the ITM Cup and super rugby.
How about the cowans the gillfords the isreal daggs, how about the rene rangers the jared paynes you cant say that if they new there ITM cup team wouldnt make a HC situation and they had offers from they 5 big teams that they would stay with there home province. what im saying is with the SR they get the best of two worlds
Originally Posted by kovana Get rid of the 5 SR franchises... Use the top 5 NPC teams in the Top tier of the NPC to play in a HC style SR tournament... Get the crowds back! I used to support this idea, but I have come to realise it wont work. If you base it on last year's Top 5 then Canterbury, Auckland, Waikato, Wellington & Taranaki would be your super rugby teams, and any players (including All Blacks) from any of the others Provincial Unions would not be playing super-rugby at all. This would include, among others, the following high-profile players Jimmy Cowan (Southland) Adan Thomson (Southland) Israel Dagg (Hawkes Bay) Zac Guildford (Hawkes Bay) Hika Elliott (Hawkes Bay) Tom Donnelly (Otago)
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Then they should have tried harder....just kidding But I honestly do think that if we gave these teams something real to play for then the level of rugby would improve I think we have been chopping and changing the comps to make them better for individual players for too long, if we concentrate on making a good combo of comps then good rugby should follow, it would also help raise the profile of the different unions which should make it easier for them to find sponserships, Sponsering one team in two comps is more attractive than any of the teams that are only seen for half the year.
Last edited by Jabby; 30-06-11 at 07:54 PM.
Originally Posted by smartcooky I used to support this idea, but I have come to realise it wont work. If you base it on last year's Top 5 then Canterbury, Auckland, Waikato, Wellington & Taranaki would be your super rugby teams, and any players (including All Blacks) from any of the others Provincial Unions would not be playing super-rugby at all. This would include, among others, the following high-profile players Jimmy Cowan (Southland) Adan Thomson (Southland) Israel Dagg (Hawkes Bay) Zac Guildford (Hawkes Bay) Hika Elliott (Hawkes Bay) Tom Donnelly (Otago) The thing is.. Instead of seeing Izzy dagg and Zac guilford for only a handful of games, if at all, in the NZ CONFERENCE (The Premier Cup of The ITM) you will get to see em for the ENTIRE season of the ITM Cup. Same with those other players.. you will still get to see em playing for their NPC teams for the ENTIRE season. Imagine if you will, a WHOLE NPC season where Dan Carter and Mccaw actually play in the Canterbury team for the whole NPC season?
I think the ITM Cup does what it is supposed to do, that is act as a feeder for the five SR franchises and help identify future talent. It reminds me of how in Canada Junior hockey and the Canadian Hockey League is highly supported; however, the teams mostly act as feeder teams for the NHL.
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...but thats not what its supposed to do, as far as im concerned it should be and use to be like the currie cup in RSA, the real comp
Is Alex Bradley still with Waikato yeah ?
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But why some players play for a SR franchise that does not include his union? For instance (this is wikipedia info, so the example may be wrong, but I know it happens) Israel Dagg plays for Hawke's Bay in the ITM so should play SR for the Highlanders, but is in the Crusaders squad.
hawkes bay is more the chiefs not the highlanders from memory (i cant remember the catchment groups up north, or i dont pay attention to them) i dont know the proper answer but i think he was a free agent a few years ago and got picked up by the highlanders. then when his contract was up with them he signed with the crusaders. just because you live in a certain area or play for a club team doesnt make you an automatic pick for them. Its the same with the NBA or other francise sports really.
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Originally Posted by TRF_woosaah hawkes bay is more the chiefs not the highlanders from memory (i cant remember the catchment groups up north, or i dont pay attention to them) i dont know the proper answer but i think he was a free agent a few years ago and got picked up by the highlanders. then when his contract was up with them he signed with the crusaders. just because you live in a certain area or play for a club team doesnt make you an automatic pick for them. Its the same with the NBA or other francise sports really. Isn't it something like the SR franchises can protect a certain amount of players from their smaller domestic unions and then the remaining players become free agents? Hawke's Bay is a Hurricanes franchise I'm pretty sure.
Actually Hawkes bay is a feeder for the Hurricanes.. Hurricanes seem to have the biggest catchment area.. - HB, Manawatu, Naki and wellington.
Originally Posted by Cacambo Isn't it something like the SR franchises can protect a certain amount of players from their smaller domestic unions and then the remaining players become free agents? Hawke's Bay is a Hurricanes franchise I'm pretty sure. That used to be the case, but that has changed recently. Now franchises are free to sign players directly, not matter where they are from.
yeah sorry my bad, like i said i dont follow the northern teams that much (and i currently live in wellington lol)
Super Rugby is broken.. it worked in the first few years when it was only super12 and had good regional representation. Now it has expanded and kills the NPC which is my favourite comp. Also it's hard to cheer for the 'Canes coming from Manawatu when they don't pick any of our players. NZRU should scrap it, have some kind of comp like the super10 from back in the day but that's all. If NPC was our premier comp the crowds would come back to watch all of our top players playing like the old days. It would also stop the likes of Wellingon, Canterbury from poaching young talent from other regions to replace their AB's who hardly ever turn out in NPC. I realise that financially the super15 is lucrative, but it sucks for the fans in NZ.
Also noted that the TV ratings for the NPC seem to be better than most of the SR matches.. Also, southland and Hawkes Bay seem to draw bigger crowds than their representative SR teams of the Highlanders and Canes.
Each franchise can protect 24 players from the draft. However the introduction of direct contracting has made the draft fairly redundant. This allows players to play Super Rugby for whoever they wish whilst staying with their itm province. Main examples of direct contracting have been Thomas Waldrom Stephen Brett Lima Sopaga etc And heres the provincial unions super sides: Blues:Auckland, Northland, North Harbour. Cheifs: Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Counties Manakau, King Country, Thames Valley Hurricanes: Wellington, Taranaki, Hawkes Bay, Manawatu, Waiarapa Bush, Horowhenua-Kapiti, Poverty Bay, Crusaders: Canterbury, Tasman, West Coast, Buller, South Canterbury, Mid Canterbury Highlanders: Otago, Southland, North Otago Missed a few Heartland but there fiarly insignifcant
