The Sharks: 2012

   
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  1. #1
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    The Sharks: 2012

    After the disappointing end to our Currie Cup, we have no choice but to look onwards to the upcoming Super Rugby season. We do have plenty of positives coming out of the Currie Cup, such as:
    -Sibusiso Sithole, this year's Mvovo: Bags of pace, just needs some hands.
    -Jan Andre Marais and Anton Bresler: After losing Mostert and Sykes we have two young second rows to take over.
    -Ross Skeate: Not fantastic but showed that he can be a dependable second row.
    -Marcell Coetzee: Strength comparable to Alberts and Deysel but better pace and handling.
    -Ross Cronje: Had his ups and downs but still relatively young and no need to write him off.
    -Wiehahn Herbst and Eugene van Staden: Both dependable props who have a shot at making the first XV

    There are quite a few negatives as well:
    -Midfield: It’s been our problem for a while now. Terblanche is gone, Joubert is passed it, Bosman is unreliable. We have signed Whitehead but I don’t think that will fix our problem.
    -Jean Deysel: Once a powerhouse blindside, now looking out of his depth at lock. His 7 shirt is now between Alberts and Coetzee and seems to have lost his dynamism.
    -Keegan Daniel: Much like Jean Deysel, he just seems almost out of his depth. He is a penalty machine and a constant yellow card worry. Definitely not a captain.
    -Lineouts: Still painful to watch, no one seems to know what is going on.
    -Scrums: Despite having a Springbok front row, we still get shoved about. Mtawarira is a constant penalty and Jannie seems disinterested at times.

    Time to get the front row sorted out. Tendai and Jannie are Boks, but often seem clueless or disinterested. We have Herbst coming through who looks eager and could be a started next season. Bismarck is undoubtedly our first choice hooker, while Kyle Cooper and Craig Burden will fight over the reserve hooker position.

    Despite losing Muller, Sykes, and Mostert over the past year, we are still doing pretty well with second rows. Anton Bresler and Jan Andre Marais are two young locks with a good future ahead of them. Ross Skeate and Alistair Hargreaves are two of the more senior locks, but are both still in their twenties. Deysel has been tried in the second row but with little success.

    Backrow is where we have most of our depth, without a doubt. Keegan Daniel, Ryan Kankowski and Willem Alberts/Jean Deysel were used for most of the Super Rugby season, but Marcell Coetzee is now pushing for the blindside spot. Keegan Daniel is hardly a guaranteed starter and could face opposition from Francois Kleinhans.

    Since Ruan Pienaar and Rory Kockott have left, we have had no one scrumhalf claim the 9 shirt. Charl McLeod was preferred for most of the Super Rugby season, and we have seen Ross Cronje and Conrad Hoffmann play throughout the Currie Cup. Despite some poor performances, I feel that Ross Cronje will be our best option for 2012.

    We need to decide where to play Lambie. He is in danger of being the next Russell/Steyn. I have always said to play him at 10, and Michalak’s performances seem to support this. Michalak has been a danger all season (to us) and apart from his goal kicking, there is little that he offers over Lambie. Michalak might be better off at scrum half, where the shirt is up for grabs.

    With the emergence of Sbura Sithole, the wings have become even more crowded. JP Pietersen is the only guaranteed starter, with Odwa Ndungane, Lwazi Mvovo, and Sbura Sithole competing for the other side. Odwa Ndungane is favoured by many for his experience, but his (lack of) pace is a poor asset for a wing. Lwazi Mvovo is a more powerful runner whose only issue is positioning in defence. Sithole is by far the quickest of the three but suffers from poor handling.

    Onto the issue of midfield… Meyer Bosman is probably still our best bet at 12. His boot is exceptional and at times looks comfortable in our backline. When paired with Terblanche, he was forced to be a one man midfield, with Stef going missing often. Give him a runner at 13 and he will be better off. Adi Jacobs is reliable but not seen as a starter, unfortunately. Marius Joubert is simply passed it. I’d like to see a young center such as Jordaan given a shot sometime during the season, or perhaps try Louis Ludik at outside centre.

    Utility back Riaan Viljoen will join us next season. I’d like to see him play in his favoured 15 shirt, over the incumbent Louis Ludik. No disrespect to Ludik, who is a reliable fullback, but Viljoen might provide a bit more of an attacking spark from deep, and his boot would be a nice luxury back there.

    My preferred 22 and reserves for the Super Rugby squad:
    01 Tendai Mtawarira
    02 Bismarck du Plessis
    03 Jannie du Plessis
    04 Anton Bresler
    05 Ross Skeate
    06 Keegan Daniel
    07 Marcell Coetzee
    08 Ryan Kankowski
    09 Ross Cronje
    10 Patrick Lambie
    11 JP Pietersen
    12 Meyer Bosman
    13 Louis Ludik
    14 Lwazi Mvovo
    15 Riaan Viljoen
    16 Craig Burden
    17 Wiehahn Herbst
    18 Jan Andre Marais
    19 Willem Alberts
    20 Frederic Michalak
    21 Adrian Jacobs
    22 Odwa Ndungane
    23 Kyle Cooper
    24 Eugene van Staden
    25 Jean Deysel
    26 Francois Kleinhans
    27 Charl McLeod
    28 Conrad Hoffmann
    29 Paul Jordaan
    30 Sibusiso Sithole

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draggs View Post
    After the disappointing end to our Currie Cup, we have no choice but to look onwards to the upcoming Super Rugby season. We do have plenty of positives coming out of the Currie Cup, such as:
    -Sibusiso Sithole, this year's Mvovo: Bags of pace, just needs some hands.
    -Jan Andre Marais and Anton Bresler: After losing Mostert and Sykes we have two young second rows to take over.
    -Ross Skeate: Not fantastic but showed that he can be a dependable second row.
    -Marcell Coetzee: Strength comparable to Alberts and Deysel but better pace and handling.
    -Ross Cronje: Had his ups and downs but still relatively young and no need to write him off.
    -Wiehahn Herbst and Eugene van Staden: Both dependable props who have a shot at making the first XV

    There are quite a few negatives as well:
    -Midfield: It’s been our problem for a while now. Terblanche is gone, Joubert is passed it, Bosman is unreliable. We have signed Whitehead but I don’t think that will fix our problem.
    -Jean Deysel: Once a powerhouse blindside, now looking out of his depth at lock. His 7 shirt is now between Alberts and Coetzee and seems to have lost his dynamism.
    -Keegan Daniel: Much like Jean Deysel, he just seems almost out of his depth. He is a penalty machine and a constant yellow card worry. Definitely not a captain.
    -Lineouts: Still painful to watch, no one seems to know what is going on.
    -Scrums: Despite having a Springbok front row, we still get shoved about. Mtawarira is a constant penalty and Jannie seems disinterested at times.

    Time to get the front row sorted out. Tendai and Jannie are Boks, but often seem clueless or disinterested. We have Herbst coming through who looks eager and could be a started next season. Bismarck is undoubtedly our first choice hooker, while Kyle Cooper and Craig Burden will fight over the reserve hooker position.

    Despite losing Muller, Sykes, and Mostert over the past year, we are still doing pretty well with second rows. Anton Bresler and Jan Andre Marais are two young locks with a good future ahead of them. Ross Skeate and Alistair Hargreaves are two of the more senior locks, but are both still in their twenties. Deysel has been tried in the second row but with little success.

    Backrow is where we have most of our depth, without a doubt. Keegan Daniel, Ryan Kankowski and Willem Alberts/Jean Deysel were used for most of the Super Rugby season, but Marcell Coetzee is now pushing for the blindside spot. Keegan Daniel is hardly a guaranteed starter and could face opposition from Francois Kleinhans.

    Since Ruan Pienaar and Rory Kockott have left, we have had no one scrumhalf claim the 9 shirt. Charl McLeod was preferred for most of the Super Rugby season, and we have seen Ross Cronje and Conrad Hoffmann play throughout the Currie Cup. Despite some poor performances, I feel that Ross Cronje will be our best option for 2012.

    We need to decide where to play Lambie. He is in danger of being the next Russell/Steyn. I have always said to play him at 10, and Michalak’s performances seem to support this. Michalak has been a danger all season (to us) and apart from his goal kicking, there is little that he offers over Lambie. Michalak might be better off at scrum half, where the shirt is up for grabs.

    With the emergence of Sbura Sithole, the wings have become even more crowded. JP Pietersen is the only guaranteed starter, with Odwa Ndungane, Lwazi Mvovo, and Sbura Sithole competing for the other side. Odwa Ndungane is favoured by many for his experience, but his (lack of) pace is a poor asset for a wing. Lwazi Mvovo is a more powerful runner whose only issue is positioning in defence. Sithole is by far the quickest of the three but suffers from poor handling.

    Onto the issue of midfield… Meyer Bosman is probably still our best bet at 12. His boot is exceptional and at times looks comfortable in our backline. When paired with Terblanche, he was forced to be a one man midfield, with Stef going missing often. Give him a runner at 13 and he will be better off. Adi Jacobs is reliable but not seen as a starter, unfortunately. Marius Joubert is simply passed it. I’d like to see a young center such as Jordaan given a shot sometime during the season, or perhaps try Louis Ludik at outside centre.

    Utility back Riaan Viljoen will join us next season. I’d like to see him play in his favoured 15 shirt, over the incumbent Louis Ludik. No disrespect to Ludik, who is a reliable fullback, but Viljoen might provide a bit more of an attacking spark from deep, and his boot would be a nice luxury back there.

    My preferred 22 and reserves for the Super Rugby squad:
    01 Tendai Mtawarira
    02 Bismarck du Plessis
    03 Jannie du Plessis
    04 Anton Bresler
    05 Ross Skeate
    06 Keegan Daniel
    07 Marcell Coetzee
    08 Ryan Kankowski
    09 Ross Cronje
    10 Patrick Lambie
    11 JP Pietersen
    12 Meyer Bosman
    13 Louis Ludik
    14 Lwazi Mvovo
    15 Riaan Viljoen
    16 Craig Burden
    17 Wiehahn Herbst
    18 Jan Andre Marais
    19 Willem Alberts
    20 Frederic Michalak
    21 Adrian Jacobs
    22 Odwa Ndungane
    23 Kyle Cooper
    24 Eugene van Staden
    25 Jean Deysel
    26 Francois Kleinhans
    27 Charl McLeod
    28 Conrad Hoffmann
    29 Paul Jordaan
    30 Sibusiso Sithole
    Agreed with basically every single thing you said until it got to your selections I just rate Mark Richards is ridiculously under-rated as a wing.....he's not even in your squad. And Hoffmann not in your 22? Come on bro.

    1. Herbst
    2. Bismarck
    3. van Staden
    4. Deysel (Liking him at lock)
    5. Bresler
    6. Daniel
    7. Alberts
    8. Kankowski
    9. Hoffmann
    10. Michalak
    11. Mvovo
    12. Lambie
    13. Joubert
    14. Ludik
    15. Viljoen
    16. Burden
    17. Beast
    18. Skeate
    19. Botes
    20. McLeod
    21. Mark Richards
    22. JP

    I know thats 2 wings on the bench, but who else could be backline reserves

  4. #3
    Lambie Lunatic!

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    Really?

    Herbst ahead of Mtawarira? Herbst is still young, too young for weekly Super Rugby matches
    Ludik ahead of JP? Ludik should play outside center


    If I had to make a match-22, it would look almost the same as Draggs, except for Ross Cronje who is likely to move to the Lions, which sucks because he is our best scrum-half at the moment

  5. #4
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    Dan, I rate Richards very highly as well, but he has been released and has a Blitzbokke contract.
    I really liked the look of him this year.

    I guess you can put Hoffmann in my 22 now, with Cronje gone. Any other scrum halves from U20's to look out for?

  6. #5
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    Jacobus Reinarch is decent by u21 standards, Fred Zeilinga (sp) spent the season with the u21s, even though many of the players in the u19 squad are older than him. They can both play both half-back positions to some degree, having been the first choice pair respectively before Jordaan came in at 10, however Zeilinga appears the brighter talent at this stage, but doubt either will play a role in the Superugby team next season, a little more development and refinement done before greater senior rugby beckons.

  7. #6
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    I am not sure why Jordaan is playing outside half. Is he better off there than centre? He would have a better shot in the long run midfield.
    I've heard of Reinach and Zeilinga, both seem to be good young prospects.

  8. #7
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    Earlier in the season the coach (Sean Everitt) said they wanted to develop Jordaan's skillz at 10, an indication I think that they at least recognize he has performed better at 12, why they are trying to develop him at 10 has not really been explained past the 'we think he is a good prospect there' line.

  9. #8
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    Rory Kockott might return, so that's pretty good news.
    I wonder if Plum will try and play him in midfield.

  10. #9
    Lambie Lunatic!

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    Read about it on his Twitter account. Very curious to see if he is actually coming. With Bondesio and Cronje in Jo'burg, Kockott has more competition there. Having him back would be good. McLeod is not ready for top level rugby and I doubt he ever will be

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_Ezequiel View Post
    Read about it on his Twitter account. Very curious to see if he is actually coming. With Bondesio and Cronje in Jo'burg, Kockott has more competition there. Having him back would be good. McLeod is not ready for top level rugby and I doubt he ever will be
    Kockott is playing for Castres right now, signed on until the end of the season apparently.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychic duck View Post

    meanwhile Lwazi Mvovo is rumoured to be in talks with the Stormers as Conrad Jantjes has left for certain now
    ... Anyone want to have a go at this one?
    Have the Stormers just said "Sod the tight five, firepower out wide!!!"?
    Might as well put van den Heever up front, can't be any worse that what they have.

  13. #12
    Lambie Lunatic!

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    I've heard that Adrian Jacobs' contract won't be re-newed and he will be leaving the Sharks at the end of the year. Another back who won't be in Sharks colours again is Stefan Terblanche. Paul Jordaan is added to the Super Rugby squad and together with Tim Whitehead and Marius Joubert he will be 1 of 3 players able to play there. Louis Ludik is also eyeing that position with Riaan Viljoen probably being our no. 1 full-back

  14. #13
    Lambie Lunatic!

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    I guess I was right... Jacobs is out of the Super Rugby squad. The squad who will go on training camp is going to be announced soon. No official reports so far, but this looks to be the group of people included:


    Props: Beast Mtawarira, Dale Chadwick, Jannie du Plessis, Wiehahn Herbst, Julian Redelinghuys. (Eugene van Staden will return in January)
    Hookers: Bismarck du Plessis, Craig Burden, Kyle Cooper
    Locks: Ross Skeate, Alistair Hargreaves, Anton Bresler, Jandre Marais, Pieter-Steph du Toit
    Loose Forwards: Keegan Daniel, Jacques Botes, Willem Alberts, Jean Deysel, Ryan Kankowski, Marcell Coetzee, Tera Mtembu
    Scrumhalves: Charl McLeod, Conrad Hoffmann, Cobus Reinach
    Flyhalves: Fred Michalak, Pat Lambie, Jacques-Louis Potgieter
    Centres: Meyer Bosman, Marius Joubert, Tim Whitehead, Paul Jordaan
    Wings: JP Pietersen, Odwa Ndungane, Lwazi Mvovo, Sbura Sithole
    Fullbacks: Louis Ludik, Riaan Viljoen, Gouws Prinsloo

  15. #14
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    So what is Pieter-Steph du Toit like? Anyone have any stats on him? I will admit I had never heard of him until this squad was announced.

    Seems like Plum and Hargreaves don't see eye to eye so we could see Jesus in the second row a bit more. In all fairness, he was pretty decent during the CC and certainly a better option than Deysel.
    Not sure what has happened to Deysel lately, but I would rather start Coetzee on the blindside over Jean right now. Hopefully Daniel can get himself sorted out, specifically with penalties. I am not sure if he is captaincy material. I'd consider someone like Kankowski who has been with the Sharks for a while and is returning to form it seems. I would not select either du Plessis, as they really don't seem like captains. We need them to keep their abrasiveness on the field. I'd also consider appointing Lambie vice captaincy. He is undoubtedly a potential future Sharks (Bok?) captain, and I think could handle the responsibility in running the backline.

  16. #15
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    Pieter has started most of the games for the u21s, unfortunately the match day programs do not go as far as listing the stats for the junior teams.


    :/

    That reminds me that I left them all in SA :/

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordHope View Post
    Pieter has started most of the games for the u21s, unfortunately the match day programs do not go as far as listing the stats for the junior teams.


    :/

    That reminds me that I left them all in SA :/
    According to someone on Sharksworld he is 198cm. Not sure about his weight though. Hopefully Bresler and Marais will have a bigger role in the S15 this year. I really liked the look of Anton this year, and I have no clue why Plum opted for Deysel over him.

  18. #17
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    Originally it was because all the other locks bar Skeate I thin were broken, if we had just one, just one extra fit lock, we could have avoided this/ that mess.

  19. #18
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    Wandile Mjekwvu and Morgan Newman have been part of the Sharks preseason training.
    Don't know too much about Newman, but I remember Mjekevu being one of the only decent players in the Lions in 2010.
    Big lad, seems like he could be an outside back in the mould of JP. Apparently he can play centre; we need a big, fast player in midfield that isn't nearing retirement.

  20. #19
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    Jacques-Louis Potgieter is headed to Bayonne.
    I had high hopes for him but he never really settled in, all the best to him. Now Mike Phillips has a new halfback friend!

  21. #20
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    As long as lwazi mvovo is starting they'll do well.
    Quote Originally Posted by big ginger 8 View Post
    . OMFG!!!! Your the king of trolls and i'm fat and childish.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadginator View Post
    As long as lwazi mvovo is starting they'll do well.
    I think Sithole will pass him this year. Sithole has better pace and might be able to step and not just blast down the touchline like Mvovo (or walk down it, like Ndungane).
    Sibusisu's defence is questionable, but no worse than Mvovo.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draggs View Post
    Wandile Mjekwvu and Morgan Newman have been part of the Sharks preseason training.
    Don't know too much about Newman, but I remember Mjekevu being one of the only decent players in the Lions in 2010.
    Big lad, seems like he could be an outside back in the mould of JP. Apparently he can play centre; we need a big, fast player in midfield that isn't nearing retirement.
    Newman is a solid enough player at Vodacom cup level. Holds his ground well in defense and though I wouldn't call him a play-maker he usually looks to distribute. A bit like Andries Strauss IMO though I'd prefer Strauss. Mjekevu is tall and very quick. A bit frail though IMO and prone to injury. Still VERY young and a little bit of meat on those bones and I can see him do very well. Deceptively strong but gets found out (ITO size) if not on the move. Personally, I'd like to see him play at wing for a few years before coming inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draggs View Post
    Jacques-Louis Potgieter is headed to Bayonne.
    I had high hopes for him but he never really settled in, all the best to him. Now Mike Phillips has a new halfback friend!
    JLP picked the wrong franchise to play his rugby if he wanted to make it in SA. Flitted around after leaving the Cheetahs and didn't get a look-in. Best of luck to him.

  24. #23
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    Adi Jabocs is gone - good thing.
    Stef gone - good thing.

    Riaan Viljoen - good buy and I rate him highly, he could be used at 12,13 or 15 and I hope they use him
    Louis Ludik could be useful at centre, time will tell
    Lambie is a marvellous 15 and should stay there, but logically a fine 10 as well if needed
    Sithole can grow into a world class wing this season given enough game time and a bit of tlc

    When it comes to the loosies Jacques Botes is the name everyone forgets, has he ever had a bad game, compare his try scoring frequency to anyone in that forward pack, you might be surprised at the results
    Young Marchell Coetzee to grow into the no 7 jersey with Willem Alberts at 8 and 6 is open but I will lay Jacques Botes above Keegan Daniel any day


    ***EDIT****

    Keegan was just appointed captain for 2012 - http://www.supersport.com/rugby/super-rugby/news/120116/Daniel_to_captain_Sharks
    There sinks my predictions and opinion to the bottom of the ocean
    Last edited by Gena_ZA; 16-01-12 at 02:28 PM.

  25. #24
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    Totally agree regarding Jacobs and Terblanche moving on. Now just Marius Joubert. Jacobs got a bit of a raw deal at the Sharks the last season IMO but his departure though it could hurt the Sharks short term is good in the long run.

    Also agree regarding Daniel as captain; doesn't have the cool head I'd prefer but he always gives it 110% and that is good (leading by example ala Schalla) though he tends to be a bit greedy with the ball IMO. That said he'll be keeping one of Deysel, Botes, Kankowski, Alberts or Coetzee on the bench all 5 of which are probably better bets as loose forwards.

    Still Sharks are the only SA team I can see go all the way if they can sort out their midfield (and it works.. easier said than done) and not move players about constantly.

  26. #25
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    I've always been impressed by Keegan Daniel, I didn't see him play much last year but in 2009 and 2010 he had one of the best work rates, ran and tackled hard and deserved his caps with the Springboks

  27. #26
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    I think Lambie as VC would have been a decent choice. He seems like a leader on the field and is undoubtedly a future Sharks captain.
    Daniel has a hot head, and I would have considered Skeate as the captain. Kanko doesn't really seem like captaincy material, while Deysel and Alberts are always injured.

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    A little disappointed that Daniel has been named captain, not sure if he should even be in the starting XV. Our loose trio should include Botes, Coetzee and Alberts. Also feel losing Jacobs is a bad thing, as he was always a good impact player and our only attacking option in the midfield. Will be interesting to see how our backline plays out with the team having quite a number of players who can play more than one position. Happy with the departure of Terblanche and JLP, hopefully Bosman and Joubert will go soon as well. Really don't know why we ever got rid of Barrit and Murray, they may of not been the greatest midfield, but were a much better one than the one we have now.

    As much as i love the Sharks, not yet buying into the hype that they are South African's best chance at winning. I think we just have fewer problems than both the Stormers and Bulls.


  29. #28
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    I think Coetzee offers more in the 7 shirt than Alberts or Deysel. I'd like to see him at 8 with either though. Botes is a good player, always gives 100%. Hopefully we will see a bit of Kleinhans this season.

  30. #29
    Lambie Lunatic!

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    Sharks re-sign key players

    Several senior players have opted to renew their contracts including the likes of Springboks Patrick Lambie, Beast Mtawarira and brothers Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis.
    http://superxv.com/news/super15_rugby_news.asp?id=33532

  31. #30
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    Great news re the du Plessiss's's's's and Lambie.

    Hopefully Beast will scrum properly this year.

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