RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

[Feicarsinn]

Twickenham (25/02/2012 - 16:00)

England		Wales
Ben Foden	15	Leigh Halfpenny
Chris Ashton	14	Alex Cuthbert
Manu Tuilagi	13	Jonathan Davies
Brad Barritt	12	Jamie Roberts
David Strettle	11	George North
Owen Farrell	10	Rhys Priestland
Lee Dickson	9	Mike Phillips
Ben Morgan	8	Toby Faletau
Chris Robshaw (c)	7	Sam Warburton (c)
Tom Croft	6	Dan Lydiate
Geoff Parling	5	Ian Evans
Mouritz Botha	4	Alun Wyn Jones
Dan Coles	3	Adam Jones
Dylan Hartley	2	Ken Owens
Alex Corbisiero	1	Gethin Jenkins
Rob Webber	16	Richard Hibbard
Matt Stevens	17	Paul James
Courtney Lawes	18	Ryan Jones
Phil Dowson	19	Justin Tipuric
Ben Youngs	20	Lloyd Williams
Toby Flood	21	Stephen Jones
Mike Brown	22	Scott Williams

Ref: Steve Walsh

[dullonien]

Considering injuries, I'm expecting the Welsh team to look something like:

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Ken Owens
03 Adam Jones
04 Ryan Jones / Alun-Wyn Jones
05 Ian Evans
06 Dan Lydiate
07 Sam Warburton
08 Toby Faletau

09 Mike Phillips
10 Rhys Priestland
11 George North
12 Jamie Roberts
13 Jon Davies
14 Alex Cuthbert
15 Leigh Halfpenny

16 Matthew Rees / Richard Hibbard
17 Paul James
18 Alun-Wyn Jones / Ryan Jones
19 Justin Tipuric
20 Lloyd Williams
21 James Hook
22 Scott Williams (although I'd like Ashley Beck).

It looks like most of the injured players should be back, the obvious exception being Bennett. Matthew Rees is 50/50. If he's close to 100% then he starts, but if not Owens should start imo. Not sure whether Gatland will put Alun-Wyn straight back into the starting 15, I personally would, because he's needed as another hard grafter to compliment the backrow. Having four backrowers on the pitch messes up the balance somewhat.

Rest picks itself.

[RedCard]

When are both teams due to be named?

Look forward to this match which is a rare thing for a Welsh supporter when playing at "HQ". Still can't get past the lingering fear factor though that England often scrape a win by doing very little. Wales need to keep their self belief and then the game is theirs for the losing as right now it's hard to deny they have the better players at their disposal. Wales need to make sure they take the game to England from the start. England...... well they just need to play a lot better and some of their players find their top form. Should be a good game none the less and realistically I expect a close score....... with a Welsh win.

Not sure if we are to expect changes on both sides so be interesting if the likes of Tuilagi and Morgan come into it or AWJ and the Hooker prob for Wales. Does Ryan Jones drop to the bench even though having done a good job thus far.

Is North going to be fit then? Also, Hooky currently has the pox so not in training and I would think struggling to be upto it for Saturday.

[cyRil]

Welsh team named at 1 I believe?

[RedCard]

No delays this time then? Usually waiting on fitness of someone or other. Probably just make changes before KO like last time with Warbs if needed. Looking forward to seeing the English selection to see if they make the obvious changes..... 8, 9 and centre combo.

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Janmie Roberts, George North; Rhys Priestland, Michael Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Ken Owens, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Ian Evans, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (capt), Toby Faletau.
Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Paul James, Ryan Jones, Justin Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams.

[HenryChinaski]

When are both teams due to be named?

Look forward to this match which is a rare thing for a Welsh supporter when playing at "HQ". Still can't get past the lingering fear factor though that England often scrape a win by doing very little. Wales need to keep their self belief and then the game is theirs for the losing as right now it's hard to deny they have the better players at their disposal. Wales need to make sure they take the game to England from the start. England...... well they just need to play a lot better and some of their players find their top form. Should be a good game none the less and realistically I expect a close score....... with a Welsh win.

Not sure if we are to expect changes on both sides so be interesting if the likes of Tuilagi and Morgan come into it or AWJ and the Hooker prob for Wales. Does Ryan Jones drop to the bench even though having done a good job thus far.

It's not actually that hard to deny.

[bushytop]

Surprised to see Hook in the match day 22 as he's had pox all week. Gutted about Mathew Rhys, lost track of the amount of times he is very nearly fit only for him to remain on the side lines.

Think bringing AWJ is the correct call, great news on North (lets see if both North & Cuthbert can fire during the same game) and happy to see Warbs back... could be huge this weekend.

[RedCard]

It's not actually that hard to deny.

Oh that's right....... I forgot about Dan Cole! ;-)

imo I think it is hard to deny as some of the key English players who are class are not in great form. Tuilagi will get back up there but it will be a lot to expect on first big game back. I can't think of many players from the English team that would get a look in for the Wales team where as the other way around it's different. This isn't the be all and end all when it comes to winning though.

I'm far from writing England off as I've too many bad memories of these matches and England always have that mental edge which Wales have largely lacked.

[dullonien]

Great team imo. Ken Owens starting doesn't scare me. He's a good player and has been unlucky not to get more gametime. His lineout throwing can be a little dodgy, but no more than the other options we have at hooker. He's very strong around the park. Rees will always be missed, but Owens has shown for the Scarlets that even when Rees is fit, he plays some part in most games, deservedly so. Big chance for the lad, could be the breakthrough he's been waiting for, because he's got the potential to be our best hooker.

Can't wait for the game now.

[HenryChinaski]

Oh that's right....... I forgot about Dan Cole! ;-)

imo I think it is hard to deny as some of the key English players who are class are not in great form. Tuilagi will get back up there but it will be a lot to expect on first big game back. I can't think of many players from the English team that would get a look in for the Wales team where as the other way around it's different. This isn't the be all and end all when it comes to winning though.

I'm far from writing England off as I've too many bad memories of these matches and England always have that mental edge which Wales have largely lacked.

Of course I'm not denying that Wales should be favourites for this game, but definitely from where I'm standing i think some fo the class recently brought into the England team is being overlooked. As you said RECard, it's a question of form, ando nthat basis alone Wales are big favourites. But I can't help but think sometimes, we won last years tournament, and most changes we have brought in since then have happened because they are bringign in better players: Brad Barritt is a far superior player to Shontayne Hape, and Manu Tuilagi is a far far better player than Tindall. Morgan - as the welsh would have been even more willign to proclaim if he had chosen to play for them - is a hugely superior player to Nick Easter. Robshaw is the standout 6the premiership(shame he's not being played there). If Lawes comes in for Botha, so much the better. Strettle in his current form is no less a player than Cueto. Admittedly Wood and Haskell are losses, as is the form of our halfbacks. I think if Flood starts with Dickson we can win, but if Farrell starts we will surely lose. Shame about Sharples pulled out: does this mean banahan into the 22? If so, I'm putting all my Vcash on Wales right away! My basic point however, is that team cohesion aside, we have more quality than in recent years, whereas opposition fans don't seem to acknowledge this, probabyl because they don't recognise any of the names.

[TRF_Getofmeland]

The Rugby Forum is going to be live from Twickenham on Saturday! So if you gonna be there let me know, and we could have an ad hoc TRF meetup!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TRF_Olyy]

Warburton and Tipuric?

We're going to get bummed so hard at the breakdown, it's going to be ridiculous.

Shame about Sharples pulled out: does this mean banahan into the 22?

Nah, Sharples wouldn't be involved anyway.
I think we'll see:

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Robshaw (C)
8. Morgan
9. Dickson
10. Hodgson
11. Ashton
12. Farrell
13. Barritt
14. Strettle
15. Foden

16. Webber
17. Stevens
18. Lawes
19. Dowson
20. Youngs
21. Flood
22. Brown

[dullonien]

Warburton and Tipuric?

We're going to get bummed so hard at the breakdown, it's going to be ridiculous.


Nah, Sharples wouldn't be involved anyway.
I think we'll see:

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Robshaw (C)
8. Morgan
9. Dickson
10. Hodgson
11. Ashton
12. Farrell
13. Barritt
14. Strettle
15. Foden

16. Webber
17. Stevens
18. Lawes
19. Dowson
20. Youngs
21. Flood
22. Brown

Tuilagi?

[RedCard]

I don't think it's a case of people not knowing certain players. I know the players well enough from the club scene but that's the thing, the step-up is a big deal and many don't make it. It's early days right now for many of these guys and to early to say either way.

Flood, Lawes and Tuilagi will get back up there but game time is against them. Barritt has done a decent enough job in defence but the current partnership is not very creative in attack. Will he or the Golden Child be dropped for Manu? A bit harsh on either I guess but will be the case before the end of the 6N. Last years 6N I actually think they were a better team and the gameplan was a bit more open. They seemed to be building a bit better before the RWC implosion. They'll get right back up there quick enough. Wins are a bonus for England beyond the 2 picked up so pressure is off and I hope we see their game developing game on game. The NH needs the big teams at their best so I hope this is the case.

[bushytop]

Tuilagi?

[RedCard]

Bench probably me thinks.

[HenryChinaski]

Warburton and Tipuric?

We're going to get bummed so hard at the breakdown, it's going to be ridiculous.


Nah, Sharples wouldn't be involved anyway.
I think we'll see:

1. Corbisiero
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Botha
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Robshaw (C)
8. Morgan
9. Dickson
10. Hodgson
11. Ashton
12. Farrell
13. Barritt
14. Strettle
15. Foden

16. Webber
17. Stevens
18. Lawes
19. Dowson
20. Youngs
21. Flood
22. Brown

I think Tuilagi will probably be involved, and I suspect that will be at the expense of Hodgson. Otherwise we'd effectively have 3 10's. I think Farrell will start at 10 with Flood on the bench as you say. Barritt to 12, Tuilagi in at 13.

Also, i knwo Botha has had some good games but I really don't think Palmer would be pushed out of the 22 altogether with Lawes back. I think Parling may miss out. I really feel sorry for Robshaw at the moment; if he has a short itnernational career because he wasn't given chances in his prime position then he could feel very hard done by ( by the welsh backrow too)

[mstar]

Guys i am SOOOOO pumped up for this game SOOOOOOOOOOO pumped up i told the wife to p*ss off and spend a load of cash shopping and i need to concentrate watch the game on full volume.
I am SOO UP FOR THIS GAME you won't believe. I can't wait
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Mogs999]

make sure she buys you a big box of tissues lol

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Tuilagi will probably be involved, and I suspect that will be at the expense of Hodgson. Otherwise we'd effectively have 3 10's. I think Farrell will start at 10 with Flood on the bench as you say. Barritt to 12, Tuilagi in at 13.

Also, i knwo Botha has had some good games but I really don't think Palmer would be pushed out of the 22 altogether with Lawes back. I think Parling may miss out. I really feel sorry for Robshaw at the moment; if he has a short itnernational career because he wasn't given chances in his prime position then he could feel very hard done by ( by the welsh backrow too)

Whoops, knew I was forgetting someone. Agree on your 10/12/13 in that case.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Tuilagi in the 22 shirt instead of Brown, though.

I don't particularly rate Botha, and I am a fan of Palmer, however I just get the feeling that Botha would survive over Palmer in this situation. Palmer not being released back to Tigers is telling, I think, as he hasn't played that much for England, so would have benefited from the game time.
Unless they just kept him back in case Palmer got injured for Stade Francais.

Ooooh, I dunno. I'm confusing myself now

[Johnny Bach]

Guys i am SOOOOO pumped up for this game SOOOOOOOOOOO pumped up i told the wife to p*ss off and spend a load of cash shopping and i need to concentrate watch the game on full volume.
I am SOO UP FOR THIS GAME you won't believe. I can't wait
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Tell her to get you a couple of handkerchiefs and a box of anti-depressants for after the game.

[bushytop]

Like most celts the game against England (regardless of how the sides currently stand) is the big one. Just hope the players can keep their calm better than I am right now.

Think the Welsh backrow will dominate the breakdown, think we'll squeak the scrum and we will obviously lose the line out... be interesting to see Englands kicking game in the knowledge of that. Taking everything into account I think with Warbs back Wales will secure the better of the possession and then its up to Phillips to find some urgency and unleash the beasts.

[GarethEWilliams]

I think this game is so tight and a penalty or 2 will decide it, and I have a funny feeling a sin binning will be involved. Keep your heads boys and no silly stuff!!

[mstar]

Don't matter i will still work myself up for it, and i won't be coming on here until Monday 27th as it normally takes me over a day to get over England losing, and i don't want to come on here while all the Wales fanboys tell me how wonderful they are.
Just prior warning :-D

Anyway i really think lancaster is under great pressure for this game because he will be judged by this performance and his selections.
for me the talking points are:
Botha - replace with Lawes? i say NO, as good as lawes is Lancaster will bottle it and start with botha.
Tuilagi - i would say start, in place or barrit? NO.

There will be large phases in the game where england need to defend. Barrit has shown he is a great defensive centre, he has geat technique, game intellgence and positioning.
Dowson or Morgan? well i just think Morgan is good but is he to green for a game like this? i dunno he will be more feared then dowson thats for sure. I would like morgan to start see what he can do.
Dickson for Youngs? well i think youngs has been slowly sliding for awhile is it injury? is it he has hit a plateau and he is finding it hard to express his natural game? i dunno. For me dickson to start.

I really think the game will be won who can play and compose themselves at critical times in the game. In defensive phases who can keep defending without conceding penalties? in attack can patience and bulding up phases of play then going for the kill.

[TRF_SelimNiai]

The big one.

Happy with the team picked and Im confident of a win. Lucky I'm not going to be drinking Saturday, I could be in a bit of a state.

[Tom Davies]

Out of interest, are any England fans expecting Youngs to start at 9? Form doesn't quite merit the selection as far as I can see it, but I'd be interested to know if/why anyone still fancies him instead of Dickson.

[TRF_Olyy]

Out of interest, are any England fans expecting Youngs to start at 9?

I'm not sure.
On form, as you said, shouldn't be anywhere near - However I wouldn't be surprised if he started (being an England fan you get used to poor selections!)

[GarethEWilliams]

I am not drinking either, watching the rugby without a beer isn't quite the same.

Mstar I agree about Morgan. I think he is top draw and the welsh know this. They will be very wary of him and his carrying ability, he could be the difference IMO.

[GarethEWilliams]

I am so nervous a little bit of wee just came out, and it is only Tuesday! 5pm kick off too, not sure what I am going to do all day, think I will stay awake all Friday night and sleep till 4pm.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

[Feicarsinn]

I'm not sure.
On form, as you said, shouldn't be anywhere near - However I wouldn't be surprised if he started (being an England fan you get used to poor selections!)

I think Lancaster will drop him. It's not as if he has any particular reason to be loyal to Youngs, he didn't introduce him to the squad or anything so it's not the embarrassment it would be if it were Johnson dropping him.