Mr Rolland

**Olliekooga** · 11-03-12, 08:00 PM

After watching Mr Roland today a few things hit me, well 2 at least.

First up with the representative rules for players at the moment why are referees not subject to the same rules. Mr Roland is eligible to play for France through his French father. Before anyone says it I know he had 3 caps for Ireland but the possibility is still there. For my money he shouldnt be able to referee France just as Wayne Barnes doesnt referee England.

Secondly and I'm not suggesting anything untoward but the fact is in the last two games he has refereed France he has given them 2 massive decisions which experts seem to be of a concensus were wrong firstly the Warburton card in the world cup and Sharples card today. Both of those decisions may have a major impact on a top tier tournament not to mention job prospects and players international positions/ call ups.

So two games vs France and 2 potentially massive decisions. This isnt my opinion this is a fact, after all what cant speak, cant lie

To my mind it seems he wants to play a bigger part in a game than a referee should.

What do we think?

**Forum Ad** · 11-03-12 08:00 PM

**TRF_Draggs** · 11-03-12, 08:02 PM

Oooohh, you're gonna get it now!!!
winkyface.

**TRF_Cymro** · 11-03-12, 08:03 PM

*Rolland

**monkeypigeon** · 11-03-12, 08:06 PM

Actually once the media calmed down they all said the Warbuton red was correct.

Today's card was pretty harsh to be fair but not overly controversial....don't think it was even discussed after the match on the TV.

**TRF_Ezequiel** · 11-03-12, 08:08 PM

We have Steve Walsh who is officially an Australian referee now. He still gets to referee the All Blacks. Oh well, just give the refs a break! Rolland is a reliable referee

**Eirian** · 11-03-12, 08:17 PM

I agree with the OP, Rolland should not referee France.

As England went further ahead, slowly his decisions started to favour the French more and more, then he yellow cards Sharples for the same offence as Fofana committed minutes earlier. I mean, come on?

Whether he favours France or not is open to debate, but why would the IRB leave it open to debate when there is such a simple solution, find an alternative ref for the French matches!!

Though, he did do England a massive favour by missing offside penalties in the final French foray today, so who knows.

**big ginger 8** · 11-03-12, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Eirian

I agree with the OP, Rolland should not referee France.

As England went further ahead, slowly his decisions started to favour the French more and more, then he yellow cards Sharples for the same offence as Fofana committed minutes earlier. I mean, come on?

Whether he favours France or not is open to debate, but why would the IRB leave it open to debate when there is such a simple solution, find an alternative ref for the French matches!!

Though, he did do England a massive favour by missing offside penalties in the final French foray today, so who knows.

Fofana went for an intercept Sharples knocked it not even attempting an intercept.

Warburton himself has admitted it was a red. It doesn't matter what the occasion is it doesn't say you can't do this except when it's a big match then it's ok.

Also he ref's France matches precisely because of his father as it means he speaks fluent French.

There are many refs who make the match about themself but I don't think Rolland (not Roland) is one of these.

**cmac95** · 11-03-12, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Eirian

I agree with the OP, Rolland should not referee France.

As England went further ahead, slowly his decisions started to favour the French more and more, then he yellow cards Sharples for the same offence as Fofana committed minutes earlier. I mean, come on?

Whether he favours France or not is open to debate, but why would the IRB leave it open to debate when there is such a simple solution, find an alternative ref for the French matches!!

Though, he did do England a massive favour by missing offside penalties in the final French foray today, so who knows.

The touch judge made the Fofana call and it was midfield with loads of cover and when Sharples did it it was on the wing and had the ball got through it was a two on one for France and it would have taken an almighty **** up. Also you have to think of where Rolland was on the pitch, Sharples was almost completely blocked off apart from his arm so from what he saw it was the right call.

**Peat** · 11-03-12, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by big ginger 8

Fofana went for an intercept Sharples knocked it not even attempting an intercept.

By giving a penalty Rolland has stated he believed Fofana deliberately knocked the ball on.

No problems with Rolland though.

**big ginger 8** · 11-03-12, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by Peat

By giving a penalty Rolland has stated he believed Fofana deliberately knocked the ball on.

No problems with Rolland though.

Then I guess what cmac said.

**Olliekooga** · 11-03-12, 08:34 PM

I think referees in general quite rightly referee the game according to the game itself in essence refereeing one game differently to the next in recognition that all games are unique. For example profesional referee's have told me that for instance in a bad tempred game they dont want the breakdown going on to long to try to avoid the potential for a flair up and ref it accordingly.

Also I dont think Fofana went for an interception AT ALL. Look how far his hands are apart it was OBVIOUSLY a knock down because another french defender had blitzed out of the line and if that pass went to hand then England would have made a lot of ground or perhaps even scored.

As for Warburton admitting it was a red card what else do you expect. Essentially slag off a ref in public and risk dragging out the incident possibly turning public opinion and referees against him or defuse the situation and not create a fuss over something that cant be changed. Captains example if you ask me.

As for refereeing France cos he speaks French... I havent noticed any other bi-lingual ref's and they do alright with sides who dont speak the same lingo as them.

**monkeypigeon** · 11-03-12, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Olliekooga

As for Warburton admitting it was a red card what else do you expect. Essentially slag off a ref in public and risk dragging out the incident possibly turning public opinion and referees against him or defuse the situation and not create a fuss over somethinnt be changed. Captains example if you ask me.

As for refereeing France cos he speaks French... I havent noticed any other bi-lingual ref's and they do alright with sides who dont speak the same lingo as them.

1. He doesn't have to admit it was a red card, just not slagging the ref is all he has to do.
2. Ever watched an Italy or Argentina match? The lads are always looking around with confused looks on their face because they have no idea why the ref is sticking his arm in the air.

**cmac95** · 11-03-12, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Olliekooga

I think referees in general quite rightly referee the game according to the game itself in essence refereeing one game differently to the next in recognition that all games are unique. For example profesional referee's have told me that for instance in a bad tempred game they dont want the breakdown going on to long to try to avoid the potential for a flair up and ref it accordingly.

Also I dont think Fofana went for an interception AT ALL. Look how far his hands are apart it was OBVIOUSLY a knock down because another french defender had blitzed out of the line and if that pass went to hand then England would have made a lot of ground or perhaps even scored.

As for Warburton admitting it was a red card what else do you expect. Essentially slag off a ref in public and risk dragging out the incident possibly turning public opinion and referees against him or defuse the situation and not create a fuss over something that cant be changed. Captains example if you ask me.

As for refereeing France cos he speaks French... I havent noticed any other bi-lingual ref's and they do alright with sides who dont speak the same lingo as them.

Stop going on about the Warburton red, it was a tip tackle with no thought of the players safety. Red Card.

**Olliekooga** · 11-03-12, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by monkeypigeon

1. He doesn't have to admit it was a red card, just not slagging the ref is all he has to do.
2. Ever watched an Italy or Argentina match? The lads are always looking around with confused looks on their face because they have no idea why the ref is sticking his arm in the air.

Surely this why we have hand signals for penalties.
I look confused after a decision sometimes it doesnt mean I dont speak the lingo and thats with English speaking refs. In a sport where we dont (quite rightly) berate referees a'la girly kick ball (see... french) its sometimes a good way to get your point across

**monkeypigeon** · 11-03-12, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Olliekooga

Surely this why we have hand signals for penalties.
I look confused after a decision sometimes it doesnt mean I dont speak the lingo and thats with English speaking refs. In a sport where we dont (quite rightly) berate referees a'la girly kick ball (see... french) its sometimes a good way to get your point across

It's more to do with the frontrows, where communications is sort of important. But we digress.

**coonor** · 11-03-12, 09:22 PM

First of all the Warburton red card is clearly correct under Law 10 and the IRB Spear Memorandum 2009. He upheld the law that was clearly for both players, coaches and the media and thats that.

On to this game, I think the yellow card was wrong simply because of the lack of consistency. Since he didn't give Fofana a yellow (admittedly the TJ called it) then he couldn't have given Sharples a yellow in the same situation, having said that everyone that believes or implies that Rolland shouldn't referee France because he has some connection to them is completely idiotic. If we even think about going down a route where people who have some sort of connection to a country cannot referee that nation, we will have serious problems. It will get to a point where refs from a British nation cannot referee another British nation etc. To even imply that Rolland is biased to France shows a lack of consideration or understanding for both him and the whole game.

**Eirian** · 11-03-12, 09:35 PM

Big ginge,

I speak Welsh, does that mean I should referee Wales? Many of the French guys speak English, including the captain, he/they can communicate any problems the referee has to the other players. This often is what happens anyway.

The problem with the Warburton red was that it was no worse than other tip tackles seen in the tournament. By the rulebook it was a red, but let's face it if we played everything by the rulebook we wouldn't watch any rugby, we'd be watching a referee blow his whistle for 80 mins. We rely on referee's to referee reasonably. Although I didn't mention this Warby issue, so don't know why it was brought up tbh, maybe it was responding to OP not me...

cmac,

Sharples was way way WAY closer to catching the ball than Fofana. Fofana's offense was closer to their own try line and I'm pretty sure England had men over too... If you ask me which was the clearer opportunity (though neither where anywhere near cert), from how I remember it, it was England.

**TRF_Cymro** · 11-03-12, 09:36 PM

What Rolland lacked today was consistency. He set out a statement to penalise off the feet and side entry at the breakdown early on ... yet he did not follow through with it. Some of his decisions were baffling as were Clancy's yesterday. But Rolland is an ok ref, he is suffering from as a player you would call 'loss of form'.

**big ginger 8** · 11-03-12, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Eirian

Big ginge,

I speak Welsh, does that mean I should referee Wales? Many of the French guys speak English, including the captain, he/they can communicate any problems the referee has to the other players. This often is what happens anyway.

The problem with the Warburton red was that it was no worse than other tip tackles seen in the tournament. By the rulebook it was a red, but let's face it if we played everything by the rulebook we wouldn't watch any rugby, we'd be watching a referee blow his whistle for 80 mins. We rely on referee's to referee reasonably. Although I didn't mention this Warby issue, so don't know why it was brought up tbh, maybe it was responding to OP not me...

cmac,

Sharples was way way WAY closer to catching the ball than Fofana. Fofana's offense was closer to their own try line and I'm pretty sure England had men over too... If you ask me which was the clearer opportunity (though neither where anywhere near cert), from how I remember it, it was England.

Wasn't responding to you about the tackle.

The French is a big help not all French players can speak it and many not to a good enough standard for the technical things. It also stops the French to use the excuse oh I didn't understand the ref.

**monkeypigeon** · 11-03-12, 09:44 PM

Look, people are losing track of the topic here. Because of his Fench daddy should he be stopped from reffing France games?

I don't think so, you're siting two incidents, one iffy one today and one correct one in the World Cup. Hardly amounts to a good conspiracy theory.

Plus (and this is the important part). He's Irish and therefore perfect.

**Eirian** · 11-03-12, 09:48 PM

I think what drives my opinion about Rolland mostly is the fact that most children grow up to support their father's club/country.

I'm a Welshman living in England. I've met many an English person who have said that they are a Welsh supported because that was who their dad supported

Think about it, as a child growing up watching sport, if your father is supporting a certain club/country it is bound to influence your support. I know his father played for Ireland but that doesn't mean he didn't shout for France.

If you rewatch the game, watch it and pay special attention to the flow of penalties. I did this today after he tickled my suspicions in the WC semi, and maybe I'm wrong, but I did feel as France went two tries behind the penalty count against England started cranking up.

I don't think he does it consciously, but I do feel perhaps it is there, these little margins can make the difference.

**Robert Prosser** · 11-03-12, 10:40 PM

I dont think he is biased towards France should he be reffing them I dont know maybe he should maybe he shouldnt the IRB says he can so he does, he is not a poor ref just not a great one he has made a few mistakes but a lot of correct ones to, so all in all I say lets not berate the refs and when a team loses lets say we losst to the better team I am getting very tired of the ref cost us the game line now its all to common these days.

**lucky number 7** · 11-03-12, 11:30 PM

For **** sake this can of worms again.... Yes..he's going out to screw everyone who play against France it's as simple as that isn't it..Take off your tinfoil hats and stop the whinging .. he's consistently a top knotch referee.

**TRF_nickdnz** · 12-03-12, 12:59 AM

By that logic Hape shouldn't have been allowed to play against New Zealand, having lived and having family from here. He may want to make England lose...

**TRF_Olyy** · 12-03-12, 01:24 AM

and, ironically, one of his vaguely acceptable games in an England shirt was against the All Blacks

**TNT88** · 12-03-12, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by Olliekooga

What do we think?

The OP is so pathetically wrong it doesn't warrant a thoughtful response because you will probably just ignore it anyway.

Thread should have been locked immediately to prevent the average IQ of this forum dropping.

**Feicarsinn** · 12-03-12, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by lucky number 7

For **** sake this can of worms again.... Yes..he's going out to screw everyone who play against France it's as simple as that isn't it..Take off your tinfoil hats and stop the whinging .. he's consistently a top knotch referee.

Meow!

**Zed** · 12-03-12, 06:52 AM

Yeah I thought the winger getting binned was a terrible decision. Worst case - penalty. It actually looked more like he was trying to catch it.

Steve Walsh has reffed wit the ABS playing?? When??

**TNT88** · 12-03-12, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Eirian

I think what drives my opinion about Rolland mostly is the fact that most children grow up to support their father's club/country.

I'm a Welshman living in England. I've met many an English person who have said that they are a Welsh supported because that was who their dad supported

Think about it, as a child growing up watching sport, if your father is supporting a certain club/country it is bound to influence your support. I know his father played for Ireland but that doesn't mean he didn't shout for France.

If you rewatch the game, watch it and pay special attention to the flow of penalties. I did this today after he tickled my suspicions in the WC semi, and maybe I'm wrong, but I did feel as France went two tries behind the penalty count against England started cranking up.

I don't think he does it consciously, but I do feel perhaps it is there, these little margins can make the difference.

Start refereeing rugby in your local comp and then see what it's like to be on the other end of silly claims like this.

"Your father played for club X therefore you favored them in that Under 7s game, I watched closely and saw it".

Ask yourself why anyone would want their team to win a single game due to dodgy refereeing. That would just hurt the club in the long run, because whatever they are not doing well enough to win games wont be exposed.

Do you know anyone who sits down to watch rugby games and hopes/prays the referee doesn't let the best team win? Even the most bias fans would get bored of the sport if this was the case.

Refs, especially those on live TV probably just want to get all their decisions correct and go home knowing they did their best to ensure a safe game of rugby was played.

**smartcooky** · 12-03-12, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Olliekooga

After watching Mr Roland today a few things hit me, well 2 at least.

First up with the representative rules for players at the moment why are referees not subject to the same rules. Mr Roland is eligible to play for France through his French father. Before anyone says it I know he had 3 caps for Ireland but the possibility is still there. For my money he shouldnt be able to referee France just as Wayne Barnes doesnt referee England.

Secondly and I'm not suggesting anything untoward but the fact is in the last two games he has refereed France he has given them 2 massive decisions which experts seem to be of a concensus were wrong firstly the Warburton card in the world cup and Sharples card today. Both of those decisions may have a major impact on a top tier tournament not to mention job prospects and players international positions/ call ups.

So two games vs France and 2 potentially massive decisions. This isnt my opinion this is a fact, after all what cant speak, cant lie

To my mind it seems he wants to play a bigger part in a game than a referee should.

What do we think?

Who he is eligible for is irrelevant. Regulation 8 applies to players only; not coaches, not administrators and not referees.

Alain Rolland referees under the IRFU banner and therefore he cannot referee any game involving any Irish national team.

It makes sense for him to referee France because he speaks fluent French as well as English.

There is nothing sinister here... no conspiracy theories please. Leave them to the nutters who believe in the second gunman, the faked moon landings and the UFO coverup.

Mr Rolland

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