England squad for SA tour

[B10]

My 30 man squad:

Props: Corbisiero, Cole, Doran-Jones, Matt Stevens
Hookers: Hartley, Webber, George
Locks: Parling, Lawes, Palmer, Attwood
Back row: Robshaw, Croft, Morgan, Wood, Clark (or Armitage if RFU allow special circumstances)
Scrum halfs: Dickson, Youngs, Care
Fly halfs: Farrell, Flood
Centres: Tuilagi, Barrit, Joseph, Waldouck
Wings: Ashton, May, Wade
Full backs: Foden, Brown






Admin Edit:
Actual England Squad:
Forwards (23)

Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Carl Fearns (Bath Rugby)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Otago Highlanders)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (capt, Harlequins)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Matt Stevens (Saracens)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (19)

Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Charlie Hodgson (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
George Lowe (Harlequins)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

[TRF_Olyy]

We'll be taking a bigger squad than that, as we have midweeks too. We took 44men to Aus/NZ the other year, so I'd expect around that, made up of EPS+Saxons
I've also heard that Henry Thomas will be going.

This is what I think (it's a mixture of what I want/what I expect ) going off of the make up of the 44man squad (4 hookers, 6 props, 5 locks, 9 back row, 5 centres, 4 flyhalves, 4 scrumhalves, 7 back three)

Props: Corbisiero, Cole, Doran-Jones, Stevens, Marler, Thomas
Hookers: Hartley, Gray, George, Brooker, (I think Webber will still be out then)
Locks: Botha, Lawes, Parling, Palmer, Attwood (though I wouldn't be surprised to see Palmer dropped in favour of someone younger)
Backrow: Croft, Robshaw, Morgan, Dowson, Wood, Clarke, Fearns/Waldrom
Scrumhalf: Dickson, Youngs, Care, Spencer (presuming Simpson is unavailable)
Flyhalf: Farrell, Flood, Hodgson, Burns
Centre: Barritt, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Trinder, Turner-Hall
Back-Three: Strettle, Ashton, Foden, Brown, Sharples, Benjamin, May (Wade could be in for one of Benjamin/May if he gets back playing, and well, by the end of the season - not being in the Saxons will count against him)

[gingergenius]

I'd have:

Corbisiero, Wood, Marler; Hartley, Webber/ Brooker, George, Gray; Cole, Doran-Jones, Stevens

Lawes, Botha, Attwood, Parling, Robson

Croft, Robshaw, Armitage, Wood, Saull, Seymour, Morgan, Waldrom, Narraway

Youngs, Dickson, Care, Simpson

Flood, Farrell, Burns, Lamb

Barritt, Tuilagi, Turner-Hall, Joseph, Twelvetrees

Sharples, Ashton, Strettle, Wade/ Armitage, May, Foden, Brown, Goode

[j'nuh]

Weekend / Mid-week:
1. Corbisiero / Mullan
2. Hartley / Gray
3. Cole / Stevens
4. Lawes / Palmer
5. Parling / Attwood
6. Croft / Clark EDIT: just seen the video of him on Hawkins, don't want him in anymore, so Dowson.
7. Wood (capt.) / Seymour
8. Morgan / Fearns
9. Care / Dickson
10. Farrell / Burns
11. Strettle (assuming JSD's England career is over...) / Wade
12. Barritt / Allen
13. Tuilagi / Trinder
14. Sharples / Ashton
15. Foden / Brown
16. Webber / George
17. PDJ / Marler
18. Robson / Botha
19. Robshaw / Waldrom
20. Youngs / Spencer
21. Flood / Ford
22. May / Joseph

+ S. Armitage if he gets an English contract and Benjamin/Goode

I may be being a little optimistic.

[Peat]

When do we next get to change the EPS?

Also, Olyy - how highly do you rate Thomas' scrummaging? I'll be honest, I kinda fear for the kid over there, and wonder if its a good call.

[stormer2010]

Sheesh, are we getting close to that already!?!

Really looking forward to the tour and how great is it to see mid-week matches back on the menu. The English starting XV looks quality for the most part though I wouldn't be able to comment on form and should be relatively settled as opposed to the likely Bok team. It's anybody's guess which route Meyer will go with selections and being in the middle of Super rugby we'll likely struggle with injuries and getting the team to gel. I expect a pretty conservative approach with one or two new faces on the pitch and two on the bench bench.

[TRF_Olyy]

Also, Olyy - how highly do you rate Thomas' scrummaging? I'll be honest, I kinda fear for the kid over there, and wonder if its a good call.

Considering his age it's pretty good. He's no Dan Cole, but usually holds his own. He was getting better every game, up until his knee injury.
He excels in open field though, his workrate is outstanding - like a young Gethin Jenkins in that respect. He's only 21 so his scrummaging will get better with time, and the fact he's had so much premiership experience (at first due to injuries, and then due to merit) will help him.
He was told that he was selected for the Saxons, despite being long-term-injured before the squads were announced, because Lancaster wanted to use him in the summer.
He won't get anywhere near the test side, and will probably warm the bench for the dirt trackers, but would be good to be bringing through another young tighthead (so him or Rupert Harden).

[Peat]

Don't get me wrong, Thomas is a phenomenal player outside the set-piece (particularly given his age) and I look forwards to seeing him with England, and salute Lancaster's ambition here at least, but I do worry that throw in the set piece and its a year too soon - particularly given the injury. If you reckon he's been improving and will handle it, cool runnings. I love the idea that in a couple of years they'll introduce 8 man benches, and we'll be able to select (when fit) Cole, Corbs, Thomas and Marler. That'll f**k people up. Big style.

Do the Saxons have any games of their own this year?

Finally - citing committee might have something to say about Hartley/Clark. Especially Clark.

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, Doubt Clark will be around even if his ban runs out before.
Presumably an extra Saxon will tour, or maybe that young London Irish 7 (Gibson, is it?) or Kvesic.
If Hartley misses it then wed probably see Meats as first choice Booker as he'd be the only one with any caps at all =\

I don't think the Saxons have any games in the summer anymore, just the dirt track team on the main tour.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

[michaelbolton]

Is haskell back in england by then?

mine would be same as ollyy except:
an extra prop (stevens???) for a back row probably dowson
joseph for turner-hall
goode for brown

[TRF_Olyy]

Not sure on Haskell - the Super XV season will be over then, and he'll technically be a Wasps player...
Not sure if he'd miss any training through still being in NZ or what not.
If he was available I'd definitely have him in the squad.

[gingergenius]

I was under the impression Super Rugby went on longer this year, and had a break for the 6N.. if so then Haskell would be out until the AIs. Either way, I've said before he was England's best player of 2011 (imo) so I'd definitely like him to be involved at some point - before the 6N he would have been a shoe-in for my XV wearing 6 (ahead of both Croft and Robshaw). Now Croft's threatened to return to 2009 form and Robshaw's played an excellent role as an extra blindside I'm not so sure...

[stormer2010]

Yeah, Super rugby will only take a break for 3 weeks during the June tests and then there are 3 regular season 'match-weeks' before the play-offs.

I'm sure Haskell should be available for England during this time?

(I distinctly remember there is 3 weeks after the tests against England because the Stormers have 3 'easy' matches against the Cheetahs-away and the Lions and Rebels at home; 12-15 log points at the business end of the competition)

[TRF_Olyy]

Ah, I'd forgotten it was a shortened season last year.
No idea about Haskell then - if it's possible then I say yes yes yes, however I'm not sure if they will use him if it's still in season for him.

[HowieLO6]

I'm no expert on the nefarious dark arts of the front row, but isn't it time for Matt Stevens to be put out to pasture? Granted, he offers a fair bit outside of the scrum, but in light of how dominant a weapon this has, potentially, become, isn't it time to pick those who excel in this over ability in the loose?

[heineken]

I'm no expert on the nefarious dark arts of the front row, but isn't it time for Matt Stevens to be put out to pasture? Granted, he offers a fair bit outside of the scrum, but in light of how dominant a weapon this has, potentially, become, isn't it time to pick those who excel in this over ability in the loose?

Maybe this is his farewell tour in front of his home crowd...

[samhall]

Well its that time near the end of the season where people like to talk about who will go on England's summer tour.

So who is the squad going to be?

i Would sugggest these players should deserve an oppurtunity

Joseph, Wade, Miller, Wood (Gloucester), Johnson (Exeter), Garvey (London Irish), Launchbury, Burns,Armitage (Toulon)

Those are the players on top of the six nations EPS id love to see go.

Any other 45 man squads?

[Saintjay]

Looks like Mike Catt could be the backs coach. Good or bad decision?.

[TRF_Olyy]

Not completely sure, to be honest. A step up from Farrell, for sure.
Could probably do a job in the short term, with Wayne Smith coming in after the tour/when he's free.

[TRF_Olyy]

Tom Wood has been ruled out of the tour with his foot.

David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour David Seymour

[HenryChinaski]

Well its that time near the end of the season where people like to talk about who will go on England's summer tour.

So who is the squad going to be?

i Would sugggest these players should deserve an oppurtunity

Joseph, Wade, Miller, Wood (Gloucester), Johnson (Exeter), Garvey (London Irish), Launchbury, Burns,Armitage (Toulon)

Those are the players on top of the six nations EPS id love to see go.

Any other 45 man squads?

In my opinion Wade's a no-brainer to tour. I know some people believe it's too early, but in my opinion if you're ready to be the top try scorer for the majority of a season, you're ready for anything. Wales recently have shown that young players can step up to international rugby when put in a good team. We shouldn't be wary of doing it just because Mathew Tait was thrown into a sh*te England team with little natural talent. Launchbury should also tour, but in my opinion even though he's a 6 we should factor him in as a versatile lock, since we have plenty of 6's. I won't try and blag the other guys as I haven't seen much of any of them

[Teh Mite]

YOu are BG8, Seymour is a metaphor for "Healy" AICMFP.

[TRF_Olyy]

In my opinion Wade's a no-brainer to tour. I know some people believe it's too early, but in my opinion if you're ready to be the top try scorer for the majority of a season, you're ready for anything. Wales recently have shown that young players can step up to international rugby when put in a good team. We shouldn't be wary of doing it just because Mathew Tait was thrown into a sh*te England team with little natural talent. Launchbury should also tour, but in my opinion even though he's a 6 we should factor him in as a versatile lock, since we have plenty of 6's. I won't try and blag the other guys as I haven't seen much of any of them

If, for the midweeks, we had 11. Benjamin 14. Wade, 15. Miller you'd have the top 3 tryscorers from the prem (1st Miller, 2nd Wade, 3rd Benjamin, who is level with Sharples)

[Wilko's left boot]

Well its that time near the end of the season where people like to talk about who will go on England's summer tour.

So who is the squad going to be?

i Would sugggest these players should deserve an oppurtunity

Joseph, Wade, Miller, Wood (Gloucester), Johnson (Exeter), Garvey (London Irish), Launchbury, Burns,Armitage (Toulon)

Those are the players on top of the six nations EPS id love to see go.

Any other 45 man squads?

Jonny May as well surely?

[TRF_Olyy]

Johnny May's a tough one - he's not really a fullback, he's a winger. There's already Ashton, Strettle and Sharples as givens.
Then there's Wade (hopefully) too - It could come down to him vs Rob Miller for a bench "versatile" spot.
Having said that, May is already in the Saxons and Miller only got called up as an injury replacement for the trip to Scotland so he could be ahead of him from that.


Will be interesting to see what team we put out midweek, presumably it'll be a Saxons side + a couple of bench/fringe EPS players.

I'd like to see something like:

1. Joe Marler
2. ??? We're running low on hookers atm. Are Brooker and Gray injured? I know Webber is. Probably Lee Mears.
3. Paul Doran-Jones
4. George Robson
5. Courtney Lawes/Tom Palmer (whichever isn't in the test side)
6. Carl Fearns
7. Hopefully Seymour, with Wood and Saull both out.
8. Waldrom
9. Ben Spencer
10. Freddie Burns
11. Johnny May
12. Billy Twelvetrees
13. Jonathan Joseph
14. Miles Benjamin
15. Rob Miller

16. Jamie George
17. Henry Thomas
18. Kearnan Myall
19. Matt Garvey
20. Karl Dickson
21. Ryan Lamb
22. Delon Armitage

[j'nuh]

May's a bit weird in that he's got the assets that you would nail down for a winger, but at this point he's got more experience at fullback (because of Olly Morgan's injury really) and from what I gather, he spent a hell of a lot of time at 13 when younger. With JSD and Sharples on the wings at Gloucester, Morgan at fullback and Trinder at 13, there's no natural slot for him in the XV. With Mills covering 10/12 from the bench, it'll be up to May to cover the rest, so I'm guessing he probably won't specialise for a while. Expecting him to do something similar in the England set-up.

[TRF_Olyy]

Smith has turned down the England role to stay close to his parents in NZ.

Also Wood, Croft, Lawes, Sharples, Webber and Simpson will all miss the tour.
I expected Webber and Simpson to be out, and Wood was announced last week, but Croft, Lawes and Sharples all missing out is pretty crappy.

Will be interesting to see who is brought in for them, as they're all EPS players.
Presumably more from the Saxons will tour, but we'll probably see new players brought in as well - hopefully Robshaw will be able to move back to 6 and we can have Armitage or Seymour at 7.

[Teh Mite]

Of those pair it has to be Armitage. Although he always seems to be playing number 8 when I see him on telly.

[TRF_Olyy]

Toulon often put Armitage at 8 on scrums as he's a great carrier off of the back due to being small, round and remarkably fast

[j'nuh]

Also Wood, Croft, Lawes, Sharples, Webber and Simpson will all miss the tour.

+ Clark

Leaves us with 3 backrowers from the six nations squad left. Will be interesting to see who comes in, because at least one of them will be involved in SA.