England squad for SA tour

[Saintjay]

Apparently Andy Farrell has walked out on Sarries, wanting to join the England set up.
I hope they tell him to swivel.

According to five live at twelve the RFU would not give up chasing him and it would seem making him a pretty decent offer. It must have been to get him to walk away from Sarries as seems the case here. I would expect to see him back with England by the end of the year.

I do not think he will make the SA tour but England do need a coach. Catt doing both attack and defence is not ideal. Is Farrell the right man for the job with his dull style of rugby that's a different story.

[living sacrifice]

What about farrell as defence coach and catt as attack coach? It's not as if we can't afford a few top coaches??? Could work well together, sarries defence london irishes attack?

[Wilko's left boot]

Having Farrell as just the defence coach wouldn't be too bad, but if it was just one of them to do attack+defence, I would much rather have Catt I think.

[TRF_Olyy]

Knowing our luck we'd end up with Sarries attack and Not Nots defence

[j-dawg]

Hopefully Lancaster will come to his senses and put Tim Payne somewhere in the backline

[Teh Mite]

Where does this myth that Catt is a good coach come from? He's no better then Brian Smith.

[Howzy]

my 30 man squad

backs (19)

anthony allen (leicester tigers)
chris ashton (northampton saints)
brad barritt (saracens)
mike brown (harlequins)
danny care (harlequins)
lee dickson (northampton saints)
owen farrell (saracens)
toby flood (leicester tigers)
ben foden (northampton saints)
alex goode (saracens)
charlie hodgson (saracens)
jonathan joseph (london irish)
george lowe (harlequins)
ugo monye (harlequins)
david strettle (saracens)
manu tuilagi (leicester tigers)
jordan turner-hall (harlequins)
christian wade (london wasps)
ben youngs (leicester tigers)

no banahan?! ;o

[Peat]

Where does this myth that Catt is a good coach come from? He's no better then Brian Smith.

Beat me to it.

There's more evidence of Smith being a good coach tbh.

edit: Just seen Launchbury out, Gibson in. I am sadcat, even if I rate Gibson highly.

[Teh Mite]

I'm still yet to see any evidence that Smith ISN'T an inept tool...

[Peat]

I'm still yet to see any evidence that Smith ISN'T an inept tool...

More highly regarded by LI fans. Also, he did manage to get tries out of a backline containing Hape and Tindall, which is impressive, even if its his own damn fault they were there in the first place.

[SpanishBob]

With Daddy in, there's no hope anymore. Owen will be England's 10 whatever he does as long as Lancaster is the boss. Doors closed for a quality fly half in a few years. What a nonsense, I would probably pick ten or twelve players for the job ahead of Farrell jr. It's hard to find an international fly half with such a poor distribution game. Most overrated player in centuries

[Tallshort]

I'm still yet to see any evidence that Smith ISN'T an inept tool...

Hold on...England scored plenty of tries under Smith it was the slow ball and penalty count that knackered things up

[Patchey]

Farrel Sr. is defense coach would be a good thing.

Are there really 10 to 12 English 10s ahead of Farrel though?

[Teh Mite]

Smith is the guy who encouraged Noon and Tindall in the same midfield. He also advocated kickchase rugby. Pfft.

[SpanishBob]

Well, I guess it's me. I must be blind, but Farell Jr. looks to me mediocre, at best. Toby Flood is the best option by far. Otherwise I prefer Burns, George Ford, Twelvetrees or whoever.
Havving said that I find it difficult to find a 12 with less attack abilities in the Premiership than Farrell, so any other would be just fine. Hape was as good or as average as Farrell.
Why this player is ever considered at intrnational level is beyond me. Therfore I assume I must be completely blind.

[Tallshort]

Well, I guess it's me. I must be blind, but Farell Jr. looks to me mediocre, at best. Toby Flood is the best option by far. Otherwise I prefer Burns, George Ford, Twelvetrees or whoever.
Havving said that I find it difficult to find a 12 with less attack abilities in the Premiership than Farrell, so any other would be just fine. Hape was as good or as average as Farrell.
Why this player is ever considered at intrnational level is beyond me. Therfore I assume I must be completely blind.

Has one of the Farrells knobbed your missus?

[Feicarsinn]

Yeah, I think you're very hard on Farrell. While it's obvious that he's not an international class 12, he gave some very solid performances at 10 in the six nations.

[Patchey]

Well, I guess it's me. I must be blind, but Farell Jr. looks to me mediocre, at best. Toby Flood is the best option by far. Otherwise I prefer Burns, George Ford, Twelvetrees or whoever.
Havving said that I find it difficult to find a 12 with less attack abilities in the Premiership than Farrell, so any other would be just fine. Hape was as good or as average as Farrell.
Why this player is ever considered at intrnational level is beyond me. Therfore I assume I must be completely blind.

I wasn't suggesting he was Gods gift to attacking rugby, just that out of the current crop of English 10s he isn't that bad. I agree Flood is a better option right now (although seemingly out of favour) but Twelvetrees and Ford are lacking in game time and experience even if Ford in particular may have the potential to be a much better player.

Farrel is no 12 though, compared to almost all the other centers in the touring squad he comes off worse.

[racingmetrofan]

Well, I guess it's me. I must be blind, but Farell Jr. looks to me mediocre, at best. Toby Flood is the best option by far. Otherwise I prefer Burns, George Ford, Twelvetrees or whoever.
Havving said that I find it difficult to find a 12 with less attack abilities in the Premiership than Farrell, so any other would be just fine. Hape was as good or as average as Farrell.
Why this player is ever considered at intrnational level is beyond me. Therfore I assume I must be completely blind.

Attacking wise you clearly mean being able to run with the ball - which is a bit of an isolated view.

Attacking rugby is being able to get your team in territory (by having a good kicking game), being able to take conversions and penalties, being able to distribute the ball, and then finally individual running skill.

He does the first two very well, the third reasonably, and he is not that good at the last one. However we have a whole host of players who can run with the ball - so it doesn't matter that much.

Yeah, I'm all in favour of a complete ten, like Flood when he is on form, but for now Farrell at 10 has the attributes that are most valuable to us within the team.

[big ginger 8]

Farrell is a poor distributor.

[Teh Mite]

Farrell is begrudgingly a good, boring 10. Like Wilkinson was. Stable, boring, kicking. Unlike Wilko he's actually got a reputation for being a good goal kicker based on form rather them media over-hype.


He's also very shit compared to Ford in the boring stuff and not on the same planet when it comes to a running game. Getting the best from Manu, Foden, Ashton and whoever comes through depends on developing Ford now. And partnering him with Lee Dickson at 9.

[Patchey]

The way things are going with selection they'll probably do something daft like start Hodgson at 10...his selection is one of the bits of the squad that really confuses me.

[Teh Mite]

The "old head", there's always one. Had he not broke his leg in 02 however, its be like the death of a monarch whenever he's not selected.

[Patchey]

True, I always felt he never got the credit he deserved internationally as he was forever playing second fiddle to Wilkinson, which was probably an experience similar to trying to be more popular than God. I doubt he'll be around for the next RWC so I was kind of hoping another, younger 10 would get called up instead.

[SpanishBob]

Attacking wise you clearly mean being able to run with the ball - which is a bit of an isolated view.

Attacking rugby is being able to get your team in territory (by having a good kicking game), being able to take conversions and penalties, being able to distribute the ball, and then finally individual running skill.

He does the first two very well, the third reasonably, and he is not that good at the last one. However we have a whole host of players who can run with the ball - so it doesn't matter that much.

Yeah, I'm all in favour of a complete ten, like Flood when he is on form, but for now Farrell at 10 has the attributes that are most valuable to us within the team.

Well, I have to disagree with that. I think he does well the second, awfuly bad the third and forth (his passingk "skills" and bad timing against Barbarians, for example, were just unacceptble in at this level), and just acceptably the first, and I explain why. Kicking for territory doesn't mean to spoil every counter attack chance that you have by kicking the ball as an automaton, and that is exactly what Farell does. He just kicks, whatever the circumstances are. A decent fly half has to know when to kick and when to play running rugby. If you just kick because you don't have any otherr resource, then your teritorial game is poor. Flood can also take conversions and penalties, his kicking game is good (and he knows when he has to kep the ball in hand), and his distribution game and running rugby is much beter.

You don't play international rugby because you are able to onvert tries and penalties and because your kicking is more or less accurate.

[Peat]

The only international qualities Farrell has are his tackling (for a 10, not a 12), his kicking and - crucially - his temperament. While I don't believe it's really enough, it does mark him out as a prospect, and I've seen worse third choice international 10s. If he doesn't sort things out, he should go down to 5th the moment Burns and Ford sort out their defences.

If he starts ahead of Hodgson/a fit Flood, I will be concerned though.

[Saintjay]

The Springbok squad is:

Willem Alberts (The Sharks, 9)
Bjorn Basson (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 6)
Marcell Coetzee (The Sharks, 0)
Keegan Daniel (The Sharks, 1)
Jean de Villiers (DHL Western Province, 72)
Bismarck du Plessis (The Sharks, 42)
Jannie du Plessis (The Sharks, 30)
JJ Engelbrecht (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 0)
Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province, 0)
Bryan Habana (DHL Western Province, 74)
Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 15)
Elton Jantjies (MTN Golden Lions, 0)
Ryan Kankowski (The Sharks, 19)
Zane Kirchner (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 14)
Juandré Kruger (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 0)
Werner Kruger (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 2)
Patrick Lambie (The Sharks, 11)
Tendai Mtawarira (The Sharks, 32)
Lwazi Mvovo (The Sharks, 4)
Wynand Olivier (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 34)
Coenie Oosthuizen (Toyota FS Cheetahs, 0)
Ruan Pienaar (Ulster, Ireland, 51)
JP Pietersen (The Sharks, 42)
Jacques Potgieter (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 0)
Chiliboy Ralepelle (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 21)
Pierre Spies (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 47)
Frans Steyn (The Sharks, 47)
Morné Steyn (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 34)
Adriaan Strauss (Toyota FS Cheetahs, 9)
Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 11)
Franco van der Merwe (MTN Golden Lions, 0)
Jano Vermaak (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 0)

[SomeOke]

JJ and Wynand above JdJ
Zane above Joe Pietersen and Gio
Jacques Potgieter selected despite being injured for several weeks.
Kanko over Josh Straus?

Don't agree with the above, but I'm ready and willing to be proven wrong.

You can't deny that there does seem to be a bit of a bulls bias.

[Saintjay]

JJ and Wynand above JdJ
Zane above Joe Pietersen and Gio
Jacques Potgieter selected despite being injured for several weeks.
Kanko over Josh Straus?

Don't agree with the above, but I'm ready and willing to be proven wrong.

You can't deny that there does seem to be a bit of a bulls bias.

Seems a number of Bok fans are not happy given how well Stormers are doing. They are of the opinion that it is going to be lots of tactical kicking, kick chase and set piece rugby. This is how Meyers Bulls played and hence the Bulls bias.