Irish Summer Tests

**Feicarsinn** · 31-05-12, 05:15 PM

I'm quite baffled by the decision to leave Dev Toner at home. Considering that we've lost our primary lineout operator in the form of O'Connell, I would have thought his height would have been an asset, off the bench at least. Instead we've gone for a 31 year old converted flanker. Bah.

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**Jockstap** · 31-05-12, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tribesmen-ce-123

We used to play nicer rugby back in the days of Eddie O Sullivan.

Out of interest, does anybody know what Kidney and O'Sullivan's win ratio is? We've been losing a lot recently, there can't be that much difference between the two, O'Sullivan's might even be better come to think of it.

**psychic duck** · 31-05-12, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Jockstap

Out of interest, does anybody know what Kidney and O'Sullivan's win ratio is? We've been losing a lot recently, there can't be that much difference between the two, O'Sullivan's might even be better come to think of it.

Eddie O'Sullivan - 78 matches - 50 wins - 64.1%
Declan Kidney - 43 matches - 25 wins - 58.1% (assuming Ireland lose all three All Black matches 54.3%)

**irelandfan123** · 31-05-12, 05:26 PM

We need to steal O'Shea back
Not shocked at McCarthy's inclusion, pissed, but not surprised ........
I would have been happy with Toner or satisfied with Lewis Steveson (who had a decent end to the season...) but picking McCarthy is just retarded

**osullie6** · 31-05-12, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by psychic duck

Eddie O'Sullivan - 78 matches - 50 wins - 64.1%
Declan Kidney - 43 matches - 25 wins - 58.1% (assuming Ireland lose all three All Black matches 54.3%)

I read somewhere as well that when you only consider matches against Tier 1 countries that Ireland's win percentage under Kidney drops to about 48%.

This blog is pretty good as well at pointing out that Kidney isn't doing a good job at all, and points out that the Irish media give Kidney a far easier time than they gave O'Sullivan.

http://whiffofcordite.com/2012/05/09...n-cup-swindle/

**Feicarsinn** · 31-05-12, 05:53 PM

Gerry Thornley loves Kidney. Eoin McDevitt on newstalk managed to get him to admit that he's given Kidney an easier time than he did O'Sullivan. Thornley used to be a good rugby journalist, but his work over that past few years has been sub par. A lot of it stems from the fact that he has a somewhat privileged position with the squad and doesn't want to rock the boat by either criticising established players or the management. Unfortunately he's viewed as the top journalist in the country so his opinion still carries a bit of weight.

**snoopy snoopy dog dog** · 31-05-12, 07:07 PM

Yep, if you want good rugby journalism in Ireland, blogs are the only place to find it. Dementedmole is excellent in my opinion.

**Peat** · 31-05-12, 07:15 PM

Thornley's actually quite intelligent when off the subject of Kidney though.

**Tribesmen-ce-123** · 31-05-12, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by psychic duck

Eddie O'Sullivan - 78 matches - 50 wins - 64.1%
Declan Kidney - 43 matches - 25 wins - 58.1% (assuming Ireland lose all three All Black matches 54.3%)

Says it all really, also under Eddies reign we won three triple crown's in four years, under Kidney's nowt since 09. I think Kidney's outgrown his tenure here, just like O Sullivan did four years ago.

**Squeals** · 31-05-12, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tribesmen-ce-123

Says it all really, also under Eddies reign we won three triple crown's in four years, under Kidney's nowt since 09. I think Kidney's outgrown his tenure here, just like O Sullivan did four years ago.

Yip IRFU never learned from 07 world cup and gave him 4 year contract right before the WC.But they have to be kicking themselves in the balls for getting rid of Gatland. He won his first 6 nations in 08 with wales, squad got older he regrouped and look at the wales squad now.Think aswell he was the closest manager to beating the All blacks in 00/01
Kidney is way too "tried and tested" as he says himself. Its going stale with em. And yes as mentioned already toner should be in the squad. How many times did DOC start this year for munster?? The man is past it im afraid
Personally I would love to see Connor O'shea take over, fair enough it may be bit too early for him to go international but he is a rugby genius and there is no bullshit with em. two full seasons with Quins and both seasons with silverware. Defo on the right path to a great manager.

**big ginger 8** · 31-05-12, 09:00 PM

Gatland wasn't right for Ireland and wasn't as good.

Conor O'Shea will hopefully make a great Ireland coach one day.

I'd like to point out that despite the fact McCarthy is definitely the wrong selection he isn't a bad player. He's been one of Connacht's star players and is a strong carrier, good defender and solid front of the line jumper. Not what we need though we now have all our second rows are better at the front. Ryan will do well enough in the middle though and DO'C always preferred jumping there. Lineout could be a worry nowhere near as big a worry as the scrum but none the less a worry.

**Squeals** · 31-05-12, 09:09 PM

Agree 100% MC is unreal for us and did nothing wrong when he came on during 6 nations, but to go to a summer tour is pointless, one of the main reasons these tour exist is to develop young players and Mc aint young
But will stick by what i said about Gatland, they should have given him more time, he only had three seasons at that stage

**killer08** · 01-06-12, 12:08 PM

annoyingly this tour wont get kidney kicked out, nor will the games at the end of the year, gonna have to wait for another bad six nations before we see kidney gone

**snoopy snoopy dog dog** · 01-06-12, 01:46 PM

Kidney will stay until the end of his contract next summer. The IRFU won't want to buy him out of his deal and then have to fork out more money for one of Joe Schmidt, Conor O'Shea or (rather unpalatably) one of Michael Bradley and Mark McCall.

**big ginger 8** · 01-06-12, 02:11 PM

Anthony Foley. Will be Deccie's nomination I'm sure. if Bradley or McCall get it ehich seems likely I'll be very annoyed. McLaughlin would be a good relatively cheap choice.

**Peat** · 01-06-12, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by big ginger 8

Gatland wasn't right for Ireland and wasn't as good.

Conor O'Shea will hopefully make a great Ireland coach one day.

I'd like to point out that despite the fact McCarthy is definitely the wrong selection he isn't a bad player. He's been one of Connacht's star players and is a strong carrier, good defender and solid front of the line jumper. Not what we need though we now have all our second rows are better at the front. Ryan will do well enough in the middle though and DO'C always preferred jumping there. Lineout could be a worry nowhere near as big a worry as the scrum but none the less a worry.

Pretty sure Tuohy takes plenty of ball in the middle for Ulster, although Muller is understandably our go-to man.

I look forwards to him spending a tour holding tackle bags then.

**big ginger 8** · 01-06-12, 04:27 PM

He does the odd time but despite being a very good enforcer he isn't someone I'd want running an international lineout as the the middle jumper generally does. Obviously I'd rather he was ahead of DO'C but Kidney will pick DO'C unfortunately. At least he'll come off the bench and may start a test. Hopefully he adds to his try scoring record vs N.Z.

**osullie6** · 01-06-12, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by big ginger 8

He does the odd time but despite being a very good enforcer he isn't someone I'd want running an international lineout as the the middle jumper generally does. Obviously I'd rather he was ahead of DO'C but Kidney will pick DO'C unfortunately. At least he'll come off the bench and may start a test. Hopefully he adds to his try scoring record vs N.Z.

Does anyone know how the lineout held up in the match against the Barbarians?
I don't suppose that the fact that Tuohy and Ryan started that game with O'Callaghan on the bench means that O'Callaghan has moved down the pecking order? Or am I just being overly optimistic (yet again) about Kidney pursuing a selection policy that is anyway influenced by form, ability and development of future Irish players?

**Peat** · 01-06-12, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by big ginger 8

He does the odd time but despite being a very good enforcer he isn't someone I'd want running an international lineout as the the middle jumper generally does. Obviously I'd rather he was ahead of DO'C but Kidney will pick DO'C unfortunately. At least he'll come off the bench and may start a test. Hopefully he adds to his try scoring record vs N.Z.

He also runs our lineout when Muller isn't there, and obviously Muller is about as good a man to learn from as there is (so's POC mind). Our lineout is one of the few aspects of our game I don't remember imploding during the World Cup. He looks about as good a candidate to run the lineout as is there.

edit: OSullie, judging from the reports the lineout went fine, but the location of Best and Trimble on the bench says that you shouldn't take O'Callaghan being there as a sign that'll he stay there.

**big ginger 8** · 01-06-12, 04:58 PM

I think there is no doubt that Ryan will call the linneout. He did it during the 6n and it's one of the few decisions I'll be happy with. Tbh I also want someone with more experience than calling in an understaffed Rabo game. Against a lineout containing either/ possibly both Whitelock and Williams who despite being in poor form is about 6'10".

**lucky number 7** · 02-06-12, 01:20 AM

I saw Toner in Dundrum the other night..He was seemed easily 2 -3 feet taller than her ..The man is a freak in height. Although he didn't look particularly athletic either it's quite apparent up close why he often gets driven backwards in the collision

**lynam1104** · 02-06-12, 01:38 AM

It's true he seems to lack bulk that is however changing hes been a lot better carrier this year.

Irish Summer Tests

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