Ireland stealing a Georgian prop

[psychic duck]

GEORGIAN tighthead prop Saba Meunargia has been named in the Ireland Under 18 squad

Meunargia attends Marist College after arriving in Ireland from Tblisi, he is also in the Connacht academy and has played for their A team and plays with the Buccaneers

seeing as Ireland are trying to solve their problems with a Georgian, maybe Ireland can help Georgia in returning the favour and handing Georgia a promising teenage winger?

I hope he turns out to be either an Artemyev and goes back home, or turns out to be a Peter Borlase

FIND YOUR OWN PROPS IRELAND

[heineken]

Oh come on! Really?? Why make such a fuss about a georgian prop?? It's not like they're any good, it's like stealing a Referee from New Zealand...

[TRF_Olyy]

Oh come on! Really?? Why make such a fuss about a georgian prop?? It's not like they're any good, it's like stealing a Referee from New Zealand...

What an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

Georgia are renowned for making very good props. The Top 14 has a number of them, and is considered the league with the best scrummaging in world rugby.

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Good trolling!

Saba Meunargia moved here with his family as a youngster. He goes to school in Marist College, hardly a rugby powerhouse, so it's fair to say he's not here for rugby reasons. How is him potentially playing for Ireland any different from Toby Faletau playing for Wales or any number of foreign born players playing for England? I wish him well in his career regardless of whether he goes on to represent Georgia, Ireland or whoever. If you were being serious, hoping an 18 year old fails is a tad pathetic in my view.

Ireland are finding their own props. Martin Moore who was on last year's u20s team and Tadhg Furlong who's injured but probably would have captained this year's team are very good prospects who are potentially on at least the same level as Mike Ross (which isn't top class but usually more than good enough to hold up a scrum). Then there's Edward Byrne, a stunning prospect at loosehead prop who'll be with the Ireland u19s this year. Think Cian Healy's carrying and defence minus the brain farts (he captains his school), with powerful scrummaging ability and an offloading game. He has a twin brother (Brian, a hooker) who's nearly as good too. Jack McGrath is another solid prospect who's played around 20 times for Leinster.

At the moment it's mainly Leinster who are producing good long term options at prop because they have a dedicated academy scrum guru in Reggie Corrigan and a high quality senior scrum coach in Greg Feek. In the short term Ireland are screwed if Mike Ross gets injured because we've nobody else but with the IRFU's (well intentioned but misguided) policy on foreign players and now advertising for a national scrum tzar, things should improve down the line. We could be talking 4 or 5 years before Ireland have more than one capable tighthead and one and a half capable looseheads.

[heineken]

What an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

Georgia are renowned for making very good props. The Top 14 has a number of them, and is considered the league with the best scrummaging in world rugby.

It was actually meant as a joke Olyy... who cares if Ireland steals one guy to better their squad? England has done that for years, and not just in Rugby...

[monkeypigeon]

I don't like seeing this sort of thing. But I expected to open this and see some 24 year old on the fringes of the Georgian team being plucked via some granny rule the second Ireland got pummelled by England.

The guy played under 17s with Ireland so he's probably been here since he was 16 (at least). Doesn't really look like he was plucked from some sort of super-georgian prop training facility, looks more like a guy who's Georgian moved to Ireland with his family and plays rugby here and played under age rugby here and might be a prop here. Dylan Hartley style.

It doesn't quite seem the grand conspiracy I was expecting.

[Teh Mite]

It was actually meant as a joke Olyy... who cares if Ireland steals one guy to better their squad? England has done that for years, and not just in Rugby...

well that didnt take very long...

[HenryChinaski]

well that didnt take very long...

Haha. "Well wot no1 realises is dat New Zealand actually do dat with the Pacific Islanders 2! Not just us! * Passes on the baton to anyone interested*

[heineken]

Haha. "Well wot no1 realises is dat New Zealand actually do dat with the Pacific Islanders 2! Not just us! * Passes on the baton to anyone interested*

haha, yeah but NZ do it only to the Pacific Islanders...

England does it to every bloody nation who had some sort of connection to England, not just the Pacific Islanders...

Australia and South Africa does it to Zimbabwe, but to be fair, who would say it's a privelage to play for Bob Mugabe...

[Teh Mite]

Depends if hes got a gun pointed at your head or not.

[HenryChinaski]

I had sort of hoped we wouldn't be successfull in passing over the baton...

[TRF_Olyy]

Wasn't there an Ireland U20s prop last year/the year before who was supposed to be the next big thing?
He was English, but qualified for Ireland, but now wants to play for Wales and is at Newport-Gwent Dragons



Edit: Can't find the thread now (think it was Big Ginger 8 singing his praises?), and I think he's been released by Newport anyhow

[Croket66]

Georgian federation works very harldy to be competitive
It's a miracle for Georgia (with 878 senior males players!!!) to have 14 front rowers in Top14 !!
LP : Kakovin (Brive), Kavtidze (Lyon), Khinchagishvili (Brive), Nariashvili (Montpellier), Peikrishvili (Castres), Ratianidze (Lyon), Shvelidze (Montpellier)
HK : Natriashvili (Brive), Bregvadze (Toulouse), Giorgadze (Toulouse)
TP : Jgenti (Montpellier), Kubriashvili (Toulon), Sheklashvili (Agen), Zirakashvili (Clermont)

It's a miracle for Georgia, with 878 senior males players, to have so many rugby-superstars like 3d row Gorgodze (best foreigner of the Top14 last year), props Jgenti and Kakovin (were in the XV of the mid-season by Rugbyrama and Midi Olympique) or future rugby-superstars like Sharikadze (centre, Gloucester U19), Rapava (prop, Saracens academy), Lomtadze (hooker, selected by Yorkshire U20) or Mikautadze (lock, Toulon U23, played some games in Top14 and Amlin Cup this season).

I'm sure, Georgia is the best team in the world if you compare IRB ranking and number of players

So please, Ireland and others Tier1 nations, don't kill georgian federation work, don't poach georgians players

[Feicarsinn]

Yep, Psychic Duck sees to have gone way overboard here. If he's been in the Ireland under 17's he's hardly a product of the Georgian system, much like Artemiev wasn't brought through by Russia. If he chooses to play for Ireland then all well and good, if not fair dues to him too.

[lucky number 7]

He doesn't look all that big at all...

[psychic duck]

Yep, Psychic Duck sees to have gone way overboard here. If he's been in the Ireland under 17's he's hardly a product of the Georgian system, much like Artemiev wasn't brought through by Russia. If he chooses to play for Ireland then all well and good, if not fair dues to him too.

I don't claim to know his full circumstances of when he came over to Ireland, but playing moving from Georgia and playing Ireland under 17's hardly makes him a product of the Irish system, he must have learnt and grown up with the game in Georgia

I repeat: Get your own props Ireland, leave Georgia's less than 900 playing stock alone

You think Ireland should take credit for Artemyev?

[lucky number 7]

I don't claim to know his full circumstances of when he came over to Ireland, but playing moving from Georgia and playing Ireland under 17's hardly makes him a product of the Irish system, he must have learnt and grown up with the game in Georgia

I repeat: Get your own props Ireland, leave Georgia's less than 900 playing stock alone

You think Ireland should take credit for Artemyev?

Faletau is a lovely Welsh name...

Tualangi is a lovely English name...

[welshglory]

I don't claim to know his full circumstances of when he came over to Ireland, but playing moving from Georgia and playing Ireland under 17's hardly makes him a product of the Irish system, he must have learnt and grown up with the game in Georgia

I repeat: Get your own props Ireland, leave Georgia's less than 900 playing stock alone

You think Ireland should take credit for Artemyev?

Chill out, it'll be his choice at the end of the day.

[Feicarsinn]

I don't claim to know his full circumstances of when he came over to Ireland, but playing moving from Georgia and playing Ireland under 17's hardly makes him a product of the Irish system, he must have learnt and grown up with the game in Georgia

I repeat: Get your own props Ireland, leave Georgia's less than 900 playing stock alone

You think Ireland should take credit for Artemyev?

Yes, he played his rugby in Ireland from a young age and came up thorugh the Leinster academy. I have no problem with him playing for Russia, but he is a product of the Irish system.

Answer me this if you will, if we were deliberately going out and stealing this guy, why would he be playing for Marist and Connacht? Surely he would have been sent to one of the big rugby schools in either Munster, Ulster or Leinster instead of an average Connacht school with no particular rugby pedgree? Maybe, just maybe, he's a good player and under 18's offered him a chance to play. He didn't have to take it, no one forced him to play for Ireland.

Do you think Wales shouldn't have capped Toby Faletau or George North? By your logic, shouldn't they stop stealing Tongan and English players?

In any case, Russia benefited from Artemyev's involvement with Leinster and Ireland, there's every chance Georgia could do the same. You're getting incredibly butt hurt over a non issue.

[lucky number 7]

Yes, he played his rugby in Ireland from a young age and came up thorugh the Leinster academy. I have no problem with him playing for Russia, but he is a product of the Irish system.

Answer me this if you will, if we were deliberately going out and stealing this guy, why would he be playing for Marist and Connacht? Surely he would have been sent to one of the big rugby schools in either Munster, Ulster or Leinster instead of an average Connacht school with no particular rugby pedgree? Maybe, just maybe, he's a good player and under 18's offered him a chance to play. He didn't have to take it, no one forced him to play for Ireland.

Do you think Wales shouldn't have capped Toby Faletau or George North? By your logic, shouldn't they stop stealing Tongan and English players?

In any case, Russia benefited from Artemyev's involvement with Leinster and Ireland, there's every chance Georgia could do the same. You're getting incredibly butt hurt over a non issue.

This.

Also I sense a jelly of Irish club success in other posts

[Peat]

I don't claim to know his full circumstances of when he came over to Ireland, but playing moving from Georgia and playing Ireland under 17's hardly makes him a product of the Irish system, he must have learnt and grown up with the game in Georgia

I repeat: Get your own props Ireland, leave Georgia's less than 900 playing stock alone

You think Ireland should take credit for Artemyev?

How do you know this? Please post your evidence for his age upon arrival in Ireland. I see no reason to suppose that he arrived in Ireland aged 16 with significant rugby experience as opposed to age eight and not knowing what his dick was for as vice versa. It is quite possible that he is entirely a product of the Irish schools system. Google points to him having played U15 club rugby in Ireland (http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/9936) so he's been in Ireland for three years at least.

Bluntly, this is good news for Georgian rugby, not bad news. There is plenty of time for the young man to make his choices as to regards his international future but what is important now is that he is playing as much rugby of a high standard as possible and developing. He is doing that. Would anyone rather he was deprived of a chance to play at the highest possible level for U18 rugby players in Europe?

The worst possible case for Georgian rugby is he's not good enough and disappears after schools level. The next worst is that he does eventually declare for Ireland, still leaving Georgia with incredible strength in depth in the front row, and a Georgian name routinely appearing against the best teams in the world, which might help drive up interest. Which isn't that bad I'd thought. Certainly not harmful. And the best is that he chooses to play for Georgia and goes on to be a fantastic player for them, which would be at least partially due to Irish money and time.

note: Continuing the google reveals he played 8 at u15 level. The article's implication and lack of older results would suggest he moved to Ireland at about that age but one can't be sure. However, it seem that he has made the transition to prop in Ireland. Again, one can't be sure.

But in short, this thread is really presumptuous on several counts, and is raising a huge fuss about nothing. And - if he does end up playing for Ireland, then given that he is unlikely to make a full international debut before he is 22 or so, he'll have been in the country for at least seven years at the time. At which point, yeah, that's a fairly hefty portion of development.

[HenryChinaski]

Can I also point out that this guy is a human being who makes his own choices; if he wants to be playing for Ireland, psychic duck, who are you to tell me that he can't?

We always talk about 'poaching' of players from other countries as if the guy has been seized in the middle of the night in his pyjamas by some secret police force. In reality players make their own choices about who they want to play for based on their own experience. Tuilagi learns his rugby through the english schools system for example, if he wants to play for England, let him. The same goes for anybody

[ZeFrenchy]

In France we're counting the hours until Falefa, Toulouse's 22 year old THP is eligible for France. Not proud of it either but, in the end, it's their choice: neither the georgian prop nor Falefa will benefit economically from this, they just want to play in a better team.

[psychic duck]

Chill out, it'll be his choice at the end of the day.

Yes I know, I don't really care, given that he's spent time with Irish scrum coaches he will probably turn out as good as Borlase anyway, nowhere near good enough for a Georgia 15th choice prop

Yes, he played his rugby in Ireland from a young age and came up thorugh the Leinster academy. I have no problem with him playing for Russia, but he is a product of the Irish system.

In any case, Russia benefited from Artemyev's involvement with Leinster and Ireland, there's every chance Georgia could do the same.

very fair point, Artemyev is undoubtedly a better player because of the Irish system to be fair, no chance this young prop will benefit from Irish scrum coaching though

Answer me this if you will, if we were deliberately going out and stealing this guy, why would he be playing for Marist and Connacht? Surely he would have been sent to one of the big rugby schools in either Munster, Ulster or Leinster instead of an average Connacht school with no particular rugby pedgree? Maybe, just maybe, he's a good player and under 18's offered him a chance to play. He didn't have to take it, no one forced him to play for Ireland.

Do you think Wales shouldn't have capped Toby Faletau or George North? By your logic, shouldn't they stop stealing Tongan and English players?

I don't know about the Connacht system and what schools have "rugby pedigree"

George North left England 14 weeks old ...
Toby Faletau left Tonga 7 year old ...

that is half the age

How do you know this? Please post your evidence for his age upon arrival in Ireland. I see no reason to suppose that he arrived in Ireland aged 16 with significant rugby experience as opposed to age eight and not knowing what his dick was for as vice versa. It is quite possible that he is entirely a product of the Irish schools system. Google points to him having played U15 club rugby in Ireland (http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/9936) so he's been in Ireland for three years at least.

Bluntly, this is good news for Georgian rugby, not bad news. There is plenty of time for the young man to make his choices as to regards his international future but what is important now is that he is playing as much rugby of a high standard as possible and developing. He is doing that. Would anyone rather he was deprived of a chance to play at the highest possible level for U18 rugby players in Europe?

The worst possible case for Georgian rugby is he's not good enough and disappears after schools level. The next worst is that he does eventually declare for Ireland, still leaving Georgia with incredible strength in depth in the front row, and a Georgian name routinely appearing against the best teams in the world, which might help drive up interest. Which isn't that bad I'd thought. Certainly not harmful. And the best is that he chooses to play for Georgia and goes on to be a fantastic player for them, which would be at least partially due to Irish money and time.

note: Continuing the google reveals he played 8 at u15 level. The article's implication and lack of older results would suggest he moved to Ireland at about that age but one can't be sure. However, it seem that he has made the transition to prop in Ireland. Again, one can't be sure.

But in short, this thread is really presumptuous on several counts, and is raising a huge fuss about nothing. And - if he does end up playing for Ireland, then given that he is unlikely to make a full international debut before he is 22 or so, he'll have been in the country for at least seven years at the time. At which point, yeah, that's a fairly hefty portion of development.

good post Peat, but I have not said I know his circumstances that well from the start

as I have found more about him, I now think Ireland have a right to him, this article (in January 2011) says he moved four years ago so that is five years now

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...t-2500049.html

Can I also point out that this guy is a human being who makes his own choices; if he wants to be playing for Ireland, psychic duck, who are you to tell me that he can't?

We always talk about 'poaching' of players from other countries as if the guy has been seized in the middle of the night in his pyjamas by some secret police force. In reality players make their own choices about who they want to play for based on their own experience. Tuilagi learns his rugby through the english schools system for example, if he wants to play for England, let him. The same goes for anybody

yes fair enough good point, as stated above I changed my opinion as more facts have been found

In France we're counting the hours until Falefa, Toulouse's 22 year old THP is eligible for France. Not proud of it either but, in the end, it's their choice: neither the georgian prop nor Falefa will benefit economically from this, they just want to play in a better team.

would be nice if he could play for Samoa ...

This.

Also I sense a jelly of Irish club success in other posts

I sense a jelly of Georgian props, and that Ireland would get embarrassed by Georgia if they were to play, I reckon Georgia would destroy your mythical "scrummaging beast" Healy who is never better than Gethin Jenkins unlike what Irish fans seem to think, also let me remind you what happened when Gorgodze and your other mythical "rampaging beast" SOB last met

[monkeypigeon]

Yes I know, I don't really care, given that he's spent time with Irish scrum coaches he will probably turn out as good as Borlase anyway, nowhere near good enough for a Georgia 15th choice prop



very fair point, Artemyev is undoubtedly a better player because of the Irish system to be fair, no chance this young prop will benefit from Irish scrum coaching though



I don't know about the Connacht system and what schools have "rugby pedigree"

George North left England 14 weeks old ...
Toby Faletau left Tonga 7 year old ...

that is half the age



good post Peat, but I have not said I know his circumstances that well from the start

as I have found more about him, I now think Ireland have a right to him, this article (in January 2011) says he moved four years ago so that is five years now

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...t-2500049.html



yes fair enough good point, as stated above I changed my opinion as more facts have been found



would be nice if he could play for Samoa ...



I sense a jelly of Georgian props, and that Ireland would get embarrassed by Georgia if they were to play, I reckon Georgia would destroy your mythical "scrummaging beast" Healy who is never better than Gethin Jenkins unlike what Leinster fans seem to think, also let me remind you what happened when Gorgodze and your other mythical "rampaging beast" SOB last met

Fixed that one for you.

[Feicarsinn]

Find me a post where someone says that Healy is a beast of a scrummager. Go on.

[osulli mi]

Wow ranting against Irish rugby without having a clue what you're talking about......classy

[heineken]

Find me a post where someone says that Healy is a beast of a scrummager. Go on.

Wasn't Austin Healy a backline player??

I don't know of any other worth mentioned Healy's...

[TRF_Olyy]

Find me a post where someone says that Healy is a beast of a scrummager. Go on.

Click on "big ginger 8"'s name and then click "view all posts"

[osulli mi]

well said