2012 IRB Junior World Championship

[TRF_nickdnz]

If you don't like booing during kicks at goal come to Ireland.

Yeah, I always find that outstanding. Easily one of the greatest places to host a test match. No booing over kicks or shouting/singing over the Haka. I love that and I know that the players appreciate and respect it. One of the reasons why Brad Thorn went to Leinster and Conrad Smith said if he went overseas it would be to Ireland.

[TRF_Draggs]

Yeah, I always find that outstanding. Easily one of the greatest places to host a test match. No booing over kicks or shouting/singing over the Haka. I love that and I know that the players appreciate and respect it. One of the reasons why Brad Thorn went to Leinster and Conrad Smith said if he went overseas it would be to Ireland.

Except if it is a last minute penalty.
Dan Parks 2010.
Leigh Halfpenny 2012.
Dan Biggar 2012 x2.

[big ginger 8]

Leigh Halfpenny was more because of the anger at Ferris being penalised. It's creeping in more which is annoying but still better than most countries.

[Feicarsinn]

Except if it is a last minute penalty.
Dan Parks 2010.
Leigh Halfpenny 2012.
Dan Biggar 2012 x2.

That's because they were all cheating. Nasty other teams, trying to beat us.




Is this the first time that the JWC champions haven't won all of their games on the way?

[TRF_nickdnz]

Except if it is a last minute penalty.
Dan Parks 2010.
Leigh Halfpenny 2012.
Dan Biggar 2012 x2.

In fairness, I stand outside both Dan Parks and Dan Biggar's house booing and heckling them. "You're ****e. Learn to do something other than kick!".

[TRF_Draggs]

@Nick, Scott Johnson-era Dan Biggar, certainly.
Nu-Dan is lovely.

@Feic, since U20's yes, as NZ were undefeated until this season.

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

What are the main positives for each country who took part? For Ireland, Iain Henderson, JJ Hanrahan and Tadhg Furlong really stood out. That all can play in problem positions for the national team is an added bonus.

[big ginger 8]

Snoop I'd include Gilsenan and Conan in that list in fact the whole pack really surprised me.

[dullonien]

From a Welsh perspective there's not too much to be displeased about.

Front row: outstanding. Rob Evans, Kirby Myhill and Samson Lee were dominant in every game they played. Expect all three to begin to feature for the Scarlets. Sasmon Lee in particular looks to be an excellent scrummaging tighthead, while it seems Myhill has been around for ages already (must be his 3rd year involved with the U20's).
Second row: Matthew Screech is a good mobile lock.
Backrow: couldn't keep up with NZ at the breakdown in the Semi, but still some great performers there. Hamilton will be heavily involved with the Blues next season. There were two good opensides in Ellis Jenkins and Daniel Thomas.
Halfbacks: Tom Habberfield was prominent throughout the competition, good all round player. Most already know about Matthew Morgan, but I was slightly disappointed with him, because I just want to see him tear s**t up.
Centres: Cory Allen was the pick of the bunch, very strong centre who should see gametime at the Blues ahead of Gavin Evans if there's any sense.
Back three: Prydie was impressive throughout. Excellent kicking throughout. Also impressed with Ross Jones who showed some of his counter attacking running skills this championship, especially against NZ in the semi's. Disappointing campaign from Eli Walker, he really isn't progressing like he should.

[TRF_Darwin]

Well, I don't think I've been as frustrated by a referees performance as I was for this game. That's not to say South Africa didn't deserve the win as they played to the referee considerably better and were all in all more physical. But the referee certainly showed he was well and truly out of his depth. The number of times there were no South Africans on their feet at a break down with no call was amazing. Some of his calls were just plain terrible. Two red cards in a U20 match final is pathetic, especially for the incident. We really needed Ofa Tuungafasi on the field as well, as for all his scrum problems he was the only one competing in the rolling malls, which is where South Africa really killed us (the ref didn't help either).

Despite the referee, New Zealand played poor and this won't be remembered as a vintage crop of players. They just didn't compete well enough physically. They would almost always go wide, however they rarely let the forwards run off the pick and drive or hit ups. The result was that South Africa could have 13 men in the defense and not worry about losing metres near the ruck. The truth of it is however, is even if the forwards did manage to hit it up, they were being dominated physically anyway. So many of the New Zealand forwards were standing and watching the ball get stolen and on defense they all tried to pilfer the ball (and by pilfer I mean get into a pilfering position even when the ball is a metre and a half away), but they didn't at all try and drive over the forwards to get the ball, something South Africa did very well, even if they were never on their feet.

I thought Martin McKenzie looked outstanding for New Zealand and Jason Emery looked good again, especially in the first half but didn't get enough ball. I was also quite impressed with Bryn Hall, looked quite composed most of the time. Ihaia West also had a pretty good game.Jordan Taufua also was fairly good, however he was pretty much the only running option with the forwards, so he got taken out of the game somewhat.

That's the extent of it. Everyone else was poor. The option taking was often terrible, with lots of aimless kicking easpecially in the first half where we tried some poor kicks in behind and failed. I thought Opetera Peleseuma killed our midfield. Always tried the tricky little passes that never came off and had poor body position in the contact on the rare occasions his passes didn't god wrong. His defense was pretty good, but other than that had a shocker. None of our wingers were at all effective and the breif moment that Marnus Hanley was on the field, in the dieing staged of the match, he kicks it out, in his own 22, when the oppositions biggest asset is the rolling maul, and Hanley is a rubbish kicker, and he had time to run it or at least pass. The option taking was terrible.

The problem with this team, is that they just don't take the right options. They're a bit thick. Ugh. Certainly no one in this team I'd put in the ITM Cup for a few seasons other than Jason Emery for Manuwatu (who could look very sharp with Aaron Smith and Aaron Cruden). We could have really done with TJ Peranara and Sam Cane. We were lacking leadership and couldn't get the basics right.

ANYWAY - Now that I've got that over and done with. Congratulations to South Africa. Quite a few of those forwards look well ready for Super Rugby. I thought Pieter Steph Du Toit was pretty outstanding, certainly very physical. Was also very impressed with Jan Serfontein, looked like a young Jaque Fourie. I thought Nicolaas Van Dyk totally killed Ofa Tuungafasi. Seemed like a total prick, but scrummaged well.

Wasn't overly impressed with the booing of the crowd especially during goal kicking and the haka, it's a U20 match...but I'm under no false illusions that New Zealander's wouldn't have done the same, and probably will during the Irish test in 12 hours. It just always really bothers me. Other than that really good atmosphere. If I didn't have to watch it to Karl Te Nana's commentary, at 4:30am in the morning, with a crap referee, and a poor New Zealand team, whom lost the match, I'd have really enjoyed the game.

Great analysis Nick - I don't have a huge amount to add, as you've covered almost everything I was going to say!

First off, I didn't think the ref was that bad. He certainly wasn't perfect, but I don't think he had any effect on the result of the game. He did completely lose the plot when he red carded the two players for 'hair-pulling' and pushing someone in the face!

Overall I just thought South Africa were the better team. We may have had a slight edge in the backline, but this certainly didn't make-up for the massive dominance South Africa had up front. We really struggled to control their rolling mauls, and they dominated at scrum time (as I thought they would). The time they destroyed our attacking 5m scrum (driving the NZ front-row into the dirt and earning a penalty) summed up the game in many way. No disrespect to South Africa, but this was a poor New Zealand team (easily the worst we have sent to an U20's tournament). What really killed us was our poor option taking - I think describing them as 'a bit thick' is probably a fair analysis. The New Zealand team did show some improvements as the tournament progressed (if we played like we did in the pool stages, South Africa would have put 20-30 on us), but we just weren't good enough.

There were a few positive from the final though. Tupou was very solid, as was Latta before he was subbed off. Taufua looked good again, and Blake played well at 7 - I thought he was very unlucky to be penalized a couple of times, as he got to his feet after making a tackle so quick the ref assumed he was still on the ground when he stole the ball! I though Hall has his second good game in a row. He has a fantastic kicking game - probably as good (if not already better than) as any halfback in NZ rugby. He varied his kicks well, and almost always found space. I know he is from North Harbour, but I wouldn't mind Otago chasing him (he'd be a great to have alongside Brad Webber, who I think we have stolen from Hawkes' Bay), and he would look good in a Highlanders shirt too (backing up Aaron Smith). West had a bit of a mixed game, and Peleseuma was great on defense, but poor in attack. I though Emery and the wings were all very quiet (though didn't get much good ball), while Keresoma looked to lack a few basic handling / defensive skills. McKenzie was undoubtedly the pick of he NZ players. He was great under the high ball, kicked intelligently (off both feet), his handling was superb, and looked great on the counter attack. I expect to see a lot more of him for Southland this ITM Cup season.

Overall congratulations to South Africa. The were the best team in the tournament, and deserved to win - we will be back at the tournament next year to take back our trophy

[Sker]

Our young fly-half is still in high school, could be a prospect for the Stormers in the next couple of years. Imagine how laid that kid is going to get the next few weeks. Paarl girls aren't bad looking either.

[TRF_Draggs]

Our young fly-half is still in high school, could be a prospect for the Stormers in the next couple of years. Imagine how laid that kid is going to get the next few weeks. Paarl girls aren't bad looking either.

Bulls are after him from what I've heard.
Yay, another outside half to turn boring!

[Keithmurdoch]

Jordan Taufua was outstanding again, the rest of our foward play was pretty average really. I thought the ref did us a favour sending Tuungfasi off, getting repeatedly penalised and so, so upright at second phase - which was a problem with most of the pack to be fair, maybe I noticed him doing it because his head stands out. The last year or so of first XV rugby has been marked by some outstandingly drilled foward packs in NZ, where were those guys? It looks as though size was an inordinatly important selection criteria this year and it backfired. Maybe inspired by the instant success of Ben Tamefuna.
The other point I'd make is that Ihia West has a fantastic skill set, but he looks set for a career with the Waratahs unless he sorts out his propensity for kicking away possession at the worst possible times. Frustrating.
Having said that, even if we'd played smarter and had full-time referee we would have struggled against what looks to be a particularly talented litter of Bokklets.

[Peat]

What are the main positives for each country who took part?

That we can probably afford never to play any of the lads from that squad again unless they grow the f**k up
That it'll hopefully persuade the RFU to look closely at, and improve any flaws in, the system
If they do grow up, a lot of them are back again next year

Player wise -

... Sinckler and LCD are some players for 19 year old props

[big ginger 8]

Yeah Sinckler has really impressed me Total Rugby did a profile on him and I wasn't sure how good he'd be but he seems to be excellent around the park for a 3 and pretty strong in the scrum.

[stormer2010]

Congrats SA, just don't forget the man shaming we dished out to you children in the first round.

LOL, yeah, when Ireland dominated us up front I thought that was it for the tournament and we had a bit of a mountain to climb after that. Tough pool. I'll be glad that we won't be in the same pool next year.

Did Abrie Griesel start a match after Ireland?
Seems like SA back play was much better with van der Watt and Pollard as the halfback pairing.

Looking forward to van Dyk and Dell breaking into our squad, Jannie won't be around forever.

@BG8, I hope that is a joke!

Griesel and Jantjies were poor this tournament TBH. We are very lucky that Theron changed up early on and that vd Watt and Pollard stayed injury free.

As for the game I thought it was immense that we had a 'capacity' (pity they didn't open all the seats) crowd and the players didn't dissapoint. Also glad that we won at home. As a proud rugby nation it would really have irked to not win at home and how fitting that we had to go through the 2 old and respected enemies England and NZ to go all the way. I know it wasn't the best u20 side NZ has had yet (arguably the least competitive) as these tournaments but they didn't give up and stayed in touch on the scoreboard despite being dominated up front.
I think it's good for rugby as a competition- even if the u20 isn't the flagship- that someone other than NZ took the honors for a change and we saw some good performances from Wales, Ireland and Argentina who showed that they could mix it up with the best (with England, Aus and France being usual powerhouses not really featuring at the end and Ire/Wal's wins over SA/NZ in the pool stages).

It was a great tournament and I think can only go from strength to strength.