2012/13 H Cup pools

[psychic duck]

Here are pots for the 2012/13 Heineken Cup draw

Pot 1	Pot 2	Pot 3	Pot 4
Leinster (1)	Clermont (7)	Ospreys (14)	Treviso (27)
Toulouse (2)	Ulster (8)	Scarlets (18)	Castres (28)
Biarritz (3)	Leicester (9)	Glasgow (19)	Racing-Métro (29)
Munster (4)	Harlequins (11)	Saracens (20)	Montpellier (30)
Cardiff Blues (5)	Toulon (12)	Connacht (24)	Exeter (34)
Northampton (6)	Edinburgh (13)	Sale (25)	An Italian team TBC

• Each pool will have 1 team from each pot
• No pool can have more than 1 side from the same nation
• Except for one pool which will have two French teams as they have 7 teams qualified

The hardest potential pool:
Leinster, Clermont, Saracens, Exeter

The weakest potential pool:
Cardiff Blues, Edinburgh, Connacht, An Italian team

I bet every team would like a group with the new Italian team in it

Here is the ERC Rankings in full

1. Leinster (40 pts)
2. Toulouse (27)
3. Biarritz (23)
4. Munster (23)
5. Cardiff Blues (20)
6. Northampton (20)
7. Clermont (18)
8. Ulster (17)
9. Leicester (17)
10. Stade Français (17)
11. Harlequins (15)
12. Toulon (15)
13. Edinburgh (12)
14. Ospreys (12)
15. Wasps (12)
16. Perpignan (11)
17. Bath (10)
18. Scarlets (9)
19. Glasgow (9)
20. Saracens (8)
21. Brive (8)
22. Gloucester (7)
23. London Irish (6)
24. Connacht (6)
25. Sale (5)
26. Bourgoin (5)
27. Treviso (4)
28. Castres (4)
29. Racing-Métro (3)
30. Montpellier (3)
31. Dragons (3)
32. Newcastle (3)
33. Aironi (2)
34. Exeter (2)
35. La Rochelle (2)
36. Worcester (2)
37. Viadana (1)
38. Montauban (1)
39. Calvisano (1)

Which teams do you think are most overrated by the rankings?

and which teams are most underrated by the rankings>

[TRF_Olyy]

Cardiff, Edinburgh and New Italian Team please!

[ZeFrenchy]

I think Biarritz is the weakest side on the first pool, and the three french sides on the fourth pool are definitely ahead in level of most sides on the third.

[Thingimubob]

I think Biarritz is the weakest side on the first pool, and the three french sides on the fourth pool are definitely ahead in level of most sides on the third.

I doubt Biarritz are weaker than Cardiff at the moment! As I said in the other thread, major upheaval with 12 players leaving and hardly the most exciting replacements being drafted in, and the new salary cap probably meaning that we wont see anything better signed between now and the start of the HC...

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Connacht have never qualified for the Heineken Cup off their own bat and have one total win in the competition. The rankings are flawed when they're a 3rd seed ahead of the likes of Top 14 semi finalists last season Racing Metro and finalists Montpellier.

[Thingimubob]

Connacht have never qualified for the Heineken Cup off their own bat and have one total win in the competition. The rankings are flawed when they're a 3rd seed ahead of the likes of Top 14 semi finalists last season Racing Metro and finalists Montpellier.

I'm guessing that performances in the Amlin count towards the seedings too? Connacht generally do fairly well in the Amlin as far as I can remember

[TPenn]

I'm guessing that performances in the Amlin count towards the seedings too? Connacht generally do fairly well in the Amlin as far as I can remember

They do, hence Cardiff having such a (ludicrously) high ranking.

Biarritz, Edinburgh and the Italians next season for the Os please.

[Thingimubob]

They do, hence Cardiff having such a (ludicrously) high ranking.

Biarritz, Edinburgh and the Italians next season for the Os please.

Not sure if it's all that ludicrous... since 07 - 08 they've made it to the quarters 3 out of 5 times, once making it to the semis (which gives a pretty decent amount of points in the seedings I think) plus one of the seasons they didnt they won the Amlin which off the top of my head is worth the same as making a quarter or semi final in the Heineken. Think coming second in the pool but not qualifying for the quarters/amlin also gives a point or two (which they did last season), so not as if they havent been consistently earning seeding points. There's a whole page on it somewhere on the ERC website I think.

[Tony Manx]

The draw for the 2012/13 Heineken Cup pools will take place at the Aviva Stadium, Dublin on Tuesday, 12 June at 11.15am streamed live on the ERC web site.....

[Gavin]

Pool 1 - Munster, Edinburgh, Saracens, Racing Metro 92
Pool 2 - Toulouse, Leicester, Ospreys, Treviso
Pool 3 - Biarritz, Harlequins, Connacht, Zebre
Pool 4 - Northampton, Ulster, Glasgow, Castres
Pool 5 - Leinster, Clermont, Scarlets, Exeter
Pool 6 - Cardiff, Toulon, Sale, Montpellier

[Tony Manx]

Pool 1 Munster Edinburgh Saracens Racing

Pool 2 Toulouse Leicester Ospreys Benetton

Pool 3 Biarritz Quins Connaught Zebre

Pool 4 N/Hampton Ulster Glasgow Castres

Pool 5 Leinster ASM Scarletts Exeter

Pool 6 Cardiff Toulon Sale Montpellier

[Tony Manx]

Beat Me Gavin!!

[Feicarsinn]

****ing Clermont again.

[TRF_Olyy]

Happy enough with that group.
Montpellier not ideal from the bottom tier, but Cardiff the best from Tier 1.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

[Tony Manx]

Reckon dear old Biarritz have pulled another good draw...............compared to the others that is................we keep doing it! I would like to think qualification is a possibility as one of best runners up unless we lose to another Italian side!! I will still go with Leinster to do it again!

[osulli mi]

What a crap pool for Munster. For that reason alone they'll probably get through, Connacht has a reasonable pool. Group six seems the easiest to get out of.

[welshglory]

Pool 1 is the pool of death imo.
Between Toulon and Montpellier for Pool 6.
Don't think Ospreys will get through pool 2.
Quins should go through Pool 3, but Biarritz or even Connacht could have a go, Zebra will be destroyed.
Pool 4 is another contender for pool of death, can't call the winner of that one.
I think Leinster and Clermont will go through Pool 5, Scarlets have no chance, especially with their pack next year.

[osulli mi]

Pool 1 is the pool of death imo.
Between Toulon and Montpellier for Pool 6.
Don't think Ospreys will get through pool 2.
Quins should go through Pool 3, but Biarritz or even Connacht could have a go, Zebra will be destroyed.
Pool 4 is another contender for pool of death, can't call the winner of that one.
I think Leinster and Clermont will go through Pool 5, Scarlets have no chance, especially with their pack next year.

They'll certainly have to earn their stripes (don't hurt me)

[ZeFrenchy]

My thoughts:
Edinburgh will not progress.
One of the qualified second placed teams will come from pool three. I think there is good chance the second will come from pool 4: Castres don't have the depth to play a good H cup. This means that there is a strong chance one of ASM and Leinster don't go through. Leinster are favourites to qualify, but we may see them eliminated before the QF.
Pool 6 seems like a coin toss. Only teams that are capable of very good and very bad stuff.

[DuncTheDoodle]

Why, why, why do the Ospreys always have to do it the hard way?

[welshglory]

I think we should look to win the Pro 12 again next year and continue to build our squad and finances up so we can bring in some higher quality players (especially in the outside backs).

[HenryChinaski]

Who the hell are zebre!? Romanian?

If quins don't make in through I'm a zebra

[TRF_Cymro]

Who the hell are zebre!? Romanian?

If quins don't make in through I'm a zebra

The new Italian franchise.

[Teh Mite]

Ulster aside, what a boring group.

[psychic duck]

Pool 1 - Munster, Edinburgh, Saracens, Racing-Métro
Racing-Métro won't qualify as they won't take all the matches seriously, but could decide who goes through as they will take points from teams when they take it seriously, but could also give an easy win when not. Munster are favourites with their European pedigree, but are rebuilding for next season so will be weaker than this season, but they have better home advantage at Thomond Park than Edinburgh or Saracens have at their respective grounds so I would back them to go through.

Pool 2 - Toulouse, Leicester, Ospreys, Treviso
Why every time do the Ospreys get stuffed by the draw? This is the hardest group in my opinion, will likely be that Toulouse, Leicester and Ospreys will win their home matches, and losing bonus points and points dropped to Treviso will prove costly, whoever goes through will struggle to get a home quarter final from this pool.

Pool 3 - Biarritz, Harlequins, Connacht, Zebre
This group has a comical look to it with Connacht and Zebre both in it, this pool should see two qualifiers with Biarritz and Harlequins who should both be looking for 10 points and lots of tries against Zebre, and 8 points against Connacht, although they could be Scotland-like in the rain as Harlequins discovered

Pool 4 - Northampton, Ulster, Glasgow, Castres
Castres will typically not give a stuff about Europe although could get a couple of wins at home, but will get thumped away, Glasgow have done well at Pro12 level but consistently disappointed in Europe, I would favour Ulster to top this group narrowly from Northampton.

Pool 5 - Leinster, Clermont, Scarlets, Exeter
This group spells the end for the Scarlets quarter final hopes, Leinster should qualify, and there should be some good rematches with Clermont and will be interesting to see if Leinster can end Clermont home run, Clermont's dismal record away should mean Leinster will top the group and qualify.

Pool 6 - Cardiff Blues, Toulon, Sale, Montpellier
The Cardiff Blues are the worst top seeds, and their squad has been decimated by departures of important players, and they have signed average to poor ones to replace them (Ma'afu to replace Jenkins?), going by last season Montpellier will just take a couple of games seriously and won't be much threat away, Toulon would be favourites in this group, but Sale have made some good signings in Richie Gray and Cipriani and could surprise a few, but would need to benefit from some poor Toulon away form to have any chance, Toulon don't lose at home.

[Peat]

Jesus christ pool 2!

[TRF_Draggs]

Pool 1 and 3 wouldn't have been bad for the Ospreys.
Another year of the Turks whinging that if they weren't in the Pool of Death, etc, etc...

[cyRil]

Every ****ing year.

[psychic duck]

Pool 1 and 3 wouldn't have been bad for the Ospreys.
Another year of the Turks whinging that if they weren't in the Pool of Death, etc, etc...

the Scarlets haven't achieved much in Europe since 2007 though, the Ospreys have reached the quarter finals three times since then, and still have cursed luck with the draw every year

Ospreys pool history:

2005/06: Leicester, Stade Français, Clermont
Leicester were the Premiership runners up that year, Stade had been Top 14 and Heineken Cup runners up the previous season

2006/07: Stade Français, Sale, Viadana
Stade won the Top 14 that year, Sale were the reigning Premiership champions the previous season

2007/08: Gloucester, Bourgoin, Ulster
Gloucester topped the Premiership table that season, and the season before, the other two weren't that strong though, probably the easiest one the Ospreys have had

2008/09: Leicester, Perpignan, Treviso
The Premiership and Top 14 champions that season

2009/10: Leicester, Clermont, Viadana
The Premiership and Top 14 champions that season

2010/11: Toulon, Munster, London Irish
One of the richest teams, the team who always reaches the knockout stages, and a tricky team to face as a fourth seed in a group

2011/12: Saracens, Biarritz, Treviso
English champions the previous season, and the Amlin Challenge Cup winners

2012/13: Toulouse, Leicester, Treviso
The Top 14 champions and the Premiership runners up

that is about 6 "pool of deaths" in 8 seasons and compare to ...

Biarritz pool history:

2005/06: Saracens, Ulster, Treviso
the team that finished 10th in the Premiership that season, and Ulster who although winning the Magners League weren't up to European level

2006/07: Northampton, Borders, Parma
the 12th placed team in the Premiership, and Borders and Parma ... yet they still hilariously mucked up the quarter final

2007/08: Saracens, Glasgow, Viadana
the 8th place team in the Premiership, and Glasgow and Viadana ... and still didn't qualify

2008/09: Cardiff Blues, Gloucester, Calvisano
Quite a decent group, with Cardiff nearing the peak of Dai Young's spell in charge, and Gloucester still decent

2009/10: Gloucester, Dragons, Glasgow
just as Gloucester declined after their good team in the mid 2000's, and two teams who have never gotten anywhere in the Heineken Cup, meant they could get a home quarter final thanks to the easiness

2010/11: Ulster, Bath, Aironi
no teams who reached the league playoffs that season

2011/12: Saracens, Ospreys, Treviso
probably the hardest Biarritz have had, which says a lot

2012/13: Harlequins, Connacht, Zebre
the two worst teams in the tournament

[cyRil]

the Scarlets haven't achieved much in Europe since 2007 though, the Ospreys have reached the quarter finals three times since then, and still have cursed luck with the draw every year

Ospreys pool history:

2005/06: Leicester, Stade Français, Clermont
Leicester were the Premiership runners up that year, Stade had been Top 14 and Heineken Cup runners up the previous season

2006/07: Stade Français, Sale, Viadana
Stade won the Top 14 that year, Sale were the reigning Premiership champions the previous season

2007/08: Gloucester, Bourgoin, Ulster
Gloucester topped the Premiership table that season, and the season before, the other two weren't that strong though, probably the easiest one the Ospreys have had

2008/09: Leicester, Perpignan, Treviso
The Premiership and Top 14 champions that season

2009/10: Leicester, Clermont, Viadana
The Premiership and Top 14 champions that season

2010/11: Toulon, Munster, London Irish
One of the richest teams, the team who always reaches the knockout stages, and a tricky team to face as a fourth seed in a group

2011/12: Saracens, Biarritz, Treviso
English champions the previous season, and the Amlin Challenge Cup winners

2012/13: Toulouse, Leicester, Treviso
The Top 14 champions and the Premiership runners up

My Dad and I have this conversation on this day every year, and get to add to it with that season's horrendous group we're drawn in!!