English dissent towards the ERC now official

[psychic duck]

As has been rumoured for a few months now, the governing body of the Premiership (Premiership Rugby) has released am official statement signalling their unhappiness as to how the ERC currently runs their tournaments the Heineken Cup and the Amlin Challenge Cup, the statements "there is need for urgent dialogue about the future of European Cup rugby".

Whilst the unhappiness of the English teams had been thought for a while, it has also been thought that the French teams and their governing body the LNR are also unhappy at the way the ERC runs their tournaments, after this official statement by Premier Rugby, the French would be likely to support it and the ERRC put under pressure.

Here is the official statement from Premier Rugby ...
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/prem...news/30894.php

Following recent media interest, Premiership Rugby confirms that it has given notice, effective 1stJune 2012, under the terms of the European Rugby Cup (ERC) Accord and understands that notice has also been served by other parties to the Accord. Such notice period expires at the end of the 2013/2014 tournament at which time, therefore, the Accord will terminate.

"We hope that there will now be an urgent dialogue about the future of European cup rugby, including qualification, competition formats and ambition to expand into new markets," said Premiership Rugby Chief Executive Mark McCafferty.

One of the things which looks set to be discussed, is the current format of the competition which allows the Rabo Pro 12 sides who enjoy a much easier passage of qualififcation than the English and French teams, and also there have been complaints that the tournament has been "under exploited" and has potential to be much bigger, and expand into new markets.

[Saintjay]

I think the term dissent is a little bit harsh to be honest. It is the English clubs putting in the two years notice that they intend to leave the compitition as is there right. I think they have a point in my opinion.

Prehaps it could be seen as strong arm tactics and I am not sure how keen the Premiership clubs would be in walking away from the H/C. I am sure it will not go down well with some and be seen as the English throwing toys out of the pram. The point of saying the top six from each league should qualifiy is in my opinion fare and would prehaps give the Rabo a shot in the arm it needs. When you have teams only playing the best players for H/C games and not caring about the league.

Interesting that the talk is of expanding and new markets. I can't help but think that this is a view to playing H/C games abroad Japan etc.

[lucky number 7]

Well if they leave then it would spell the death of the competition in my opinion as I imagine the French would also boycott it.

If they want to look at something look at strengthening their squads in order to allow them to be competitive in the Hcup , as in my opinion their Heineken Cup failings are due to not having as good a teams as they like to believe.

[Saintjay]

Well if they leave then it would spell the death of the competition in my opinion as I imagine the French would also boycott it.

If they want to look at something look at strengthening their squads in order to allow them to be competitive in the Hcup , as in my opinion their Heineken Cup failings are due to not having as good a teams as they like to believe.

I don't think many of the Pro-12 teams have any better strength in deph. They can rest players before H/cup games as they know they will be in it again next year. The premiership teams can't do that as some are fighting for a cup spot and facing opponets that are fighting relegation etc. Or they would be if it had not turned into such a farce.

[lucky number 7]

Leinster for one rarely put their first side out or anything close to it in the pro 12 , I think Sexton had fewer than 10 games under his belt before the final couple of games.

I'm sure that could be said for many of the stronger teams also.it's their depth that allows them the ability to rest their players I believe.

[cyRil]

... and yet are still easily the best team in the league

[lucky number 7]

**** he looks old in that...

[Teh Mite]

Told you.

[Thingimubob]

I think the term dissent is a little bit harsh to be honest. It is the English clubs putting in the two years notice that they intend to leave the compitition as is there right. I think they have a point in my opinion.

Prehaps it could be seen as strong arm tactics and I am not sure how keen the Premiership clubs would be in walking away from the H/C. I am sure it will not go down well with some and be seen as the English throwing toys out of the pram. The point of saying the top six from each league should qualifiy is in my opinion fare and would prehaps give the Rabo a shot in the arm it needs. When you have teams only playing the best players for H/C games and not caring about the league.

Interesting that the talk is of expanding and new markets. I can't help but think that this is a view to playing H/C games abroad Japan etc.

Main problem with this is the fact that you could end up with a HC where one or more of the Pro12 Nations are under represented/not represented at all. For example if you look at the league standings from 2010-2011, 3 Welsh and 3 Irish teams would qualify under those rules, meaning no Scottish or Italian teams in the HC. That's potentially devastating for Scottish and Italian club rugby and which would likely have a knock on effect to the national sides.
And anyway you'd need more than 6 from each league due to the Heineken having 24 teams, 7 could work, with the winners of the Hieneken, Amlin and possibly the LV-Cup getting a place, though still presents the same problems in the Pro12, as if you use the '10-'11 standings, an extra team would just add the Dragons in.

[Tony Manx]

Main problem with this is the fact that you could end up with a HC where one or more of the Pro12 Nations are under represented/not represented at all. For example if you look at the league standings from 2010-2011, 3 Welsh and 3 Irish teams would qualify under those rules, meaning no Scottish or Italian teams in the HC. That's potentially devastating for Scottish and Italian club rugby and which would likely have a knock on effect to the national sides.
And anyway you'd need more than 6 from each league due to the Heineken having 24 teams, 7 could work, with the winners of the Hieneken, Amlin and possibly the LV-Cup getting a place, though still presents the same problems in the Pro12, as if you use the '10-'11 standings, an extra team would just add the Dragons in.

Three points.......

1. What the f......do we want to be playing European Cup games in places like SA, Japan etc for.....how can fans of those clubs possibly afford it? I know everyone here was happy that the Biarritz/Saffers game in Cape Town was called off this season.......

2. The H Cup should be for the best teams in Europe and everyone should have to qualify and not be allowed to compete merely because their country has too few teams/provinces. Concentration should be put by the respective Unions (Scottish and Italian), with assistance from the money raised by the ERC from the running of the competition if needed, on ensuring these Countries have competitive teams but everyone should have to compete to qualify.

3. With the Top French clubs (Toulouse, Clermont, Racing, Toulon, Stade and Montpellier) now moving so far ahead of the rest of the league in financial terms, it is true that they will be in the same position as Ireland being able to have almost one team for each competition. The rest are like the English and Welsh (although with bigger salary caps) and are not able to rest players as they fight for a H Cup place or relegation.

[gaston le gaff]

Hi Tony you forgot BO they are only 0.6 million behind!!!!!!
1.Toulouse 33,1M€ (+3,57M€ par rapport à la saison dernière)
2. Clermont 24,1M€ (+3,15M€)
3. Racing-Métro 22,4 (+3,46M€)
4. Stade Français 21,3M€ (+2,02M€)
5. Toulon 19,7M€ (+0,65M€)
6. Bayonne 17,2M€ (+1,45M€)
7. Montpellier 17,2M€ (+2,19M€)
8. Biarritz 16,6M€ (+1,21M€)
9. Perpgignan 15,3M€ (+1,22M€)
10. Castres 15,1M€ (+1,16M€)
11. Lyon 14,8M€ (Promu)
12. Brive 13,7M€ (-0,35M€)
13. Agen 11,9M€ (+ 2,09M€)
14. Bordeaux-Bègles 8M€ (PromBO they are only

[welshglory]

Guys it has almost nothing to do with the English or French not winning. It's all about the money. The markets and television revenue are much bigger in England and France and they feel they aren't getting a big enough slice of the pie, which is fair enough in many ways. Quite similar to SARU's (South African union) disagreements with SANZAR in fact.

To be honest as an Ospreys supporter i'm in favour of it and i think it would strengthen the Pro 12.

[Teh Mite]

Makes me laugh that teams like Bordeaux are "put together on buttons" when their wage bill is still 50% higher then the English salary cap and more then the sum total of the SRU estates.

[racingmetrofan]

Main problem with this is the fact that you could end up with a HC where one or more of the Pro12 Nations are under represented/not represented at all. For example if you look at the league standings from 2010-2011, 3 Welsh and 3 Irish teams would qualify under those rules, meaning no Scottish or Italian teams in the HC. That's potentially devastating for Scottish and Italian club rugby and which would likely have a knock on effect to the national sides.
And anyway you'd need more than 6 from each league due to the Heineken having 24 teams, 7 could work, with the winners of the Hieneken, Amlin and possibly the LV-Cup getting a place, though still presents the same problems in the Pro12, as if you use the '10-'11 standings, an extra team would just add the Dragons in.

I'm sure it would make players better for Scotland and Italy playing good rugby week in week out rather than in 6-8 Heinekin games a season and getting dicked for the rest.

[Tony Manx]

Hi Tony you forgot BO they are only 0.6 million behind!!!!!!
1.Toulouse 33,1M€ (+3,57M€ par rapport à la saison dernière)
2. Clermont 24,1M€ (+3,15M€)
3. Racing-Métro 22,4 (+3,46M€)
4. Stade Français 21,3M€ (+2,02M€)
5. Toulon 19,7M€ (+0,65M€)
6. Bayonne 17,2M€ (+1,45M€)
7. Montpellier 17,2M€ (+2,19M€)
8. Biarritz 16,6M€ (+1,21M€)
9. Perpgignan 15,3M€ (+1,22M€)
10. Castres 15,1M€ (+1,16M€)
11. Lyon 14,8M€ (Promu)
12. Brive 13,7M€ (-0,35M€)
13. Agen 11,9M€ (+ 2,09M€)
14. Bordeaux-Bègles 8M€ (PromBO they are only

Bet you we will not be this year...Cap Gemini guy has sold his shares and, I understand, withdrawn their sponsorship. At this time there has been no announcement for a replacement which kind leaves us short of money!! Should not be surprised at lack of announcement.......they do not go in for such trivia!!

[TRF_Olyy]

Leicester don't say they're poor, they say they can't spend their money on players because of the salary cap.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

[welshglory]

To be fair Leicester lose half of their squad during the internationals. I know the Ospreys do as well but they don't complain because they literally don't have any money to spend lol
If Leicester were able to spend more money they could fight on all fronts, same as Northampton, Saracens, Gloucester and Bath.

I've never heard Leicester or Northampton say they are poor, only they're not as rich as the big French clubs!

[Peat]

And 50pc higher isn't double.

Also, Leicester get to pay a lot of players below market rate as they're more likely to win trophies and international caps with Leicester, plus often they're settled there.

[bushytop]

Most people agree that pro rugby players (NH in particular) are playing way too much rugby... maybe this is the ideal opportunity to totally overhaul the NH season.

Read a decent suggestion (either on TRF or elswhere):

Sept - Dec: A scaled down domestic comp (Top 14, Aviva, Pro 12).

Jan - Mar: Heineken Cup /Amlin Group Stage.

Mar - Apr: 6N

May - Jun: Heineken Cup Amlin Knock out stages.

Still seems congested and for teams that don't qualify for HC Knock out stages the season is over but there are positives ie squad juggling for concurrent league & HC competitions so clubs can focus on one competition at a time.

HC qualifying... top 7 from top 14, top 7 from Aviva, 8 teams from Pro 12 (with a minimum of one team qualifying from each country ie this season Lie, Mun, Uls, O's, Blu, Sca, Gla, Tre) and the winner from the Amlin and LV.

Obviously people will find issues but what are other peoples ideas?

[Peat]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying bushytop but the problem is less games = less gate money and the pro clubs do not want that.

[Teh Mite]

Cobblers, the unions create extra fixtures fore money.


The top clubs make most of their income away from rugby, the remainder is made from mostly season ticket sales (which wouldn't drop in price if the number of fixtures were lowered).

[irelandfan123]

It would be fun if an english team won it next 2 years unlikely as it is they would be feeling it

[Howzy]

seen this on bbc sport just shows how good our players really are when coming up against the likes of teams from france, wales and ireland.

[Teh Mite]

nothing non-Celtic fans haven't been saying for a few seasons now.

I expect several rabbo franchise DORs will be up in arms over the new priority changes when it comes into effect, and those who've been resting on their laurels will be shown up.

It'd be worse (ie fair) for them if survival was also at stake in the "domestic" competition rather then just HEC qualification. The coat-tail riding "dominance" would suddenly dry up.

[Tony Manx]

there is no way this squad is double the cost of Leicester's, that table must have budgets for more than just a salary

The figures quoted are the total budgets for the clubs total expenditure as there is a salary cap in place.....see other thread!!

[Teh Mite]

Also in reply to PD: Bordeaux have a salary budget of somewhere between 7.5-8 million.

Pounds that is. Not worthless Euros.

[lucky number 7]

I don't see how this will effect the top teams in the Rabo..

At the end of the day the strongest team will win it and they have done so for some time now.

[Teh Mite]

I don't see how this will effect the top teams in the Rabo..

At the end of the day the strongest team will win it and they have done so for some time now.

If the lower teams start taking it seriously and Leinster suddenly find themselves in 7th...

[lucky number 7]

Our Academy = the shit.

We'll be grand

[psychic duck]

Also in reply to PD: Bordeaux have a salary budget of somewhere between 7.5-8 million.

Pounds that is. Not worthless Euros.

there is no way this squad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_B...quad_2011-2012

could cost nearly double this squad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saracen...#Current_squad

Saracens have 17 internationals in their squad
Bordeaux-Bègles have 9 internationals in their squad (2 of which are from Spain and 1 from Romania and presumably are very cheap)