Argentina vs France, Tucumán

[Melhor Time]

Phelan has made seven changes. This time it will take more than two intercepts to win I feel as some of the players are so far from making a real Pumas starting lineup. Those in bold being cases in point. The scrum should be better but the issue, for me, is flyhalf with a player who never played in the position for the Harlequins. The Quins used him at 12 and 13 and how he will be playing in the Pro d2 in the new season.

There are positives though - the backrow getting to play together is ideal as is Cubelli at scrumhalf.

Argentina
1 Eusebio Guiñazú (Biarritz, France)
2 Andrés Bordoy (Pau, France)
3 Francisco Gómez Kodela (Biarritz, France)
4 Julio Farías Cabello (Los Pampas XV)
5 Esteban Lozada (Agen, France)
6 Tomás De la Vega (Los Pampas XV)
7 Tomás Leonardi (Los Pampas XV)
8 Leonardo Senatore (Los Pampas XV)
9 Tomás Cubelli (Los Pampas XV)
10 Benjamín Urdapilleta (Oyonnax, France)
11 Manuel Montero (Los Pampas XV)
12 Felipe Contepomi (Stade Français, France)
13 Agustín Gosio (London Scottish, England)
14 Facundo Barrea (Los Pampas XV)
15 Joaquín Tuculet (Grenoble, France)
Reserves: 16 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro (Stade Français, France) 17 Bruno Postiglioni (Los Pampas XV) 18 Santiago Guzmán (Los Pampas XV) 19 Benjamín Macome (Los Pampas XV) 20 Rodrigo Báez (Los Pampas XV) 21 Martín Landajo (Los Pampas XV) 22 Gabriel Ascárate (Los Pampas XV)

[Invictus]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/i...before-country

"Argentina's best player"

[Melhor Time]

Mark who Hinton. Answer = nobody.

Pathetic knowledge. Just some tool trying to talk down the Pumas in TRC.

French team named...Michalak at flyhalf... Urdapilleta vs Michalak.. Dear Lord!
Great looking backrow. de la Vega vs Lapasndry to be key.

Le XV de départ:
15 Dulin ; 14 Fall, 13 Fritz, 12 Mermoz, 11 Huget ; 10 Michalak, 9 Machenaud 7 Ouedraogo, 8 Picamoles, 6 Lapandry ; 5 Papé (cap.), 4 Maestri ; 3 Attoub, 2 Szarzewski, 1 Debaty.Remplaçants: Tolofua, Domingo, Samson, Lauret, Parra, Trinh-Duc, Fofana.

[psychic duck]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/i...before-country

"Argentina's best player"

that's poor knowledge from that journalist

somebody who is paid to write that article should be able to research that Contepomi hasn't "put club before country"

he has basically decided to retire from international rugby, but in the interests for the team has made himself available in June to help lead this inexperienced side of fringe players and reserves whilst the top players aren't there, and he's led this team admirably and it's actually a shame in my opinion he isn't going to be considered for the Rugby Championship as I would select him on form

[Melhor Time]

that's poor knowledge from that journalist

somebody who is paid to write that article should be able to research that Contepomi hasn't "put club before country"

he has basically decided to retire from international rugby, but in the interests for the team has made himself available in June to help lead this inexperienced side of fringe players and reserves whilst the top players aren't there, and he's led this team admirably and it's actually a shame in my opinion he isn't going to be considered for the Rugby Championship as I would select him on form

Bang on the money.

Also he told scrum that Stade Français will release him if Phelan wants him. But he is about to turn 35 so... Fariás said he is likely to retire this year btw.

[Feicarsinn]

Future World Cup winning team? Pull the other one. France are having fun today.

[Melhor Time]

Future World Cup winning team? Pull the other one. France are having fun today.

Not as much as NZ vs Ireland 18 hours ago. More importantly though, not many of these players will be in TRC. maybe 3 of them.

France are awesome tonight and Argentina just tackling. Machenaud playing so well. Looks better than Parra and Yachvilli. Pumas scrum poor and quite a few being made to look aweful. Gosio in particular. ....Intercept try to finish off a dreadful flyhalf performance from Urdapilleta. The Pumas secondrow is up there with the worst I can remember.

[TRF_Draggs]

Did Martin Gillingham just spurn an opportunity to mention Jonny?!?!

Urdepilleta... gee whiz, telegraphed by Mermoz.
3-37 now.

[Feicarsinn]

Not as much as NZ vs Ireland 18 hours ago.

France are awesome tonight and Argentina just tackling. Machenaud playing so well. Looks better than Parra and Yachvilli. Pumas scrum poorand quitwe a few being made to look aweful. Gosio in particular.

Oh, how very petty.

I knew my shambles of a team wasn't going to be winning any World Cups though.

[psychic duck]

To be fair, Argentina have been asking for a spanking by playing their reserves this summer.

They got away with it with Italy being crap, then France having a full on brainfart day, but it had to come eventually.

[Melhor Time]

Haha. Wasn´t trying to be petty. I guess I used poor words.

France should pass the 60 mark anyway...

[Feicarsinn]

Haha. Wasn´t trying to be petty. I guess I used poor words.

France should pass the 60 mark anyway...

I was only joking mate, no worries.


47-3 now. I suppose this result had been coming. It would have been nice for Argentina to put out a full strength side at least once before TRC, there's a serious danger that they could go pretty undercooked.

[Melhor Time]

I was only joking mate, no worries.


47-3 now. I suppose this result had been coming. It would have been nice for Argentina to put out a full strength side at least once before TRC, there's a serious danger that they could go pretty undercooked.

All fun and games

Nice to get a try now.... good for it to have been scored by Tomás de la Vega too.

[yoe91]

aahhhh, now THAT's more like it !...

[smartcooky]

Mark who Hinton. Answer = nobody.

Pathetic knowledge. Just some tool trying to talk down the Pumas in TRC.

Actually, Marc Hinton is a very good rugby journalist and was one of the leading advocates in the NZ Media for expanding the Tri-Nations to include Argentina. You might want to consider thinking before biting the hand that feeds you.

Surely you agree with this...

That's a shame for Contepomi is a talismanic figure in the Argentine game and it would have been good to see him there piloting the Pumas as they take on the All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks home and away.

And you have to admit that this is true, even if you don;t like it...

But given that almost all of Argentina's leading players are contracted to clubs in France or the UK, do not expect this to be the last instance of a club's needs being put ahead of the country's.

As a journalist, he pisses all over Neville Nobodies like Stephen Jones, Brendan Gallagher and Mark Reason.

[Tony Manx]

"As a journalist, he pisses all over Neville Nobodies like Stephen Jones, Brendan Gallagher and Mark Reason."

That presumably occurs after they have all been in the bar too long together and before they each write their various reports....or delegate the most sober to write anonymously for all of them?

[Melhor Time]

Actually, Marc Hinton is a very good rugby journalist and was one of the leading advocates in the NZ Media for expanding the Tri-Nations to include Argentina. You might want to consider thinking before biting the hand that feeds you.

Surely you agree with this...

That's a shame for Contepomi is a talismanic figure in the Argentine game and it would have been good to see him there piloting the Pumas as they take on the All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks home and away.

And you have to admit that this is true, even if you don;t like it...

But given that almost all of Argentina's leading players are contracted to clubs in France or the UK, do not expect this to be the last instance of a club's needs being put ahead of the country's.

As a journalist, he pisses all over Neville Nobodies like Stephen Jones, Brendan Gallagher and Mark Reason.

If Hinton is as good as you say then he would have known that Contepomi has made it clear since October that he is not going to compromise the team by playing ahead of younger guys who have futures. He agreed to stay on as captain due to Fernández Lobbe´s World Cup ending injury and Patricio Albacete´s certain participation in the Top 14 play-off´s, which was known in January meant he would not play vs Italy which took place on the same day as the Top 14 Final.

Hinton doesn´t bother even getting into this at all and even says Contepomi is Argentina´s best player. In 2004 perhaps but not in 2012! He is like Jonny Wilkinson - still playing really well and could still lay claim to a starting spot in the test side. But this will just hold back the team, and this is what Contepomi has been foscused on - the team. Think about how good it has been for England to have Farrell given a shot. I am not sure seeing Contepomi, at 35, face Sonny Bill Williams would be all that good of a thing. He can still tackle, kick, run and pass but its one bite too many at the cherry. Above all else, Contepomi is a doctor himself and knows his limitations. Given the alternatives he is not crucial even though he is still playing well.

For 10 Argentina have Hernández who has, at last recovered and was 10 for Racing Métro this season. There is also Mieres who was a standout for Exeter. There is Nicolás Sánchez as a back up, he is also playing in France. Bosch cant be forgotten either.

For 12 Argentina have Fernández and Rodríguez. Two guys who were 12 all season for Montpellier and Stade Français. I wish Hinton had named some of these players. Of course, doing so would tear apart his argument.

There is no question that the situation is tough and Argentina will have issues with players. But Contepomi was not what Hinton says he was. He simply decided on his own that Contepomi wasn´t being released by Stade Français. This is simply not what happened. The same club released a Pumas, Gonzalo Tiesi but resigned another - Martín Rodríguez. Tiesi got released due to hardly making the team as he was injured and has become surplus. Rodríguez was 12 all season for the club and will miss matches from August-October due to TRC then November´tests too. They signed him for two more years the other week and did so knowing he will be unavaliable for three months. The player, himself, said the club is happy for him to play in TRC.

While the UAR is a highly problematic organization it is really doing well with the test players abroad. Again, Hinton makes no mention of this. There will, without doubt, be future occurances of players maybe needing to choose club or country. Two examples are Horacio Aguilla and Manuel Carizza. Horacio Agulla was released by Leicester. But, rivals, Bath are about to confirm his signature. Carizza has been released by Biarritz who were not happy with him playing in TRC. He will go into the PladAR system as he has gone for country over club. The point is that now there is something to fall backon as there are 10 players already under well paid deals with the UAR to stay in Argentina and be professionals. It is, btw, the start of what will be a Super Rugby team.

[ZeFrenchy]

Did Mermoz play as well as it looks in the highlights?

[TRF_nickdnz]

It does seem a shame that Contepomi won't play in the first Rugby Championship. Out of all the players in Argentina, I think he's certainly one of the most deserving to make that milestone, even if it is at 35 years old.

[Melhor Time]

Two examples are Horacio Aguilla and Manuel Carizza. Horacio Agulla was released by Leicester. But, rivals, Bath are about to confirm his signature.

Confirmed now..... http://www.bathrugby.com/news/team-n...ing-ace-agulla

I wonder what Bath will do with Agulla though. He could well be playing 13.

Nick

Thats just it. Roncero is the same. In both cases they will play if they are needed. Roncero more important as the backups to Figallo and Ayerza are not so good.

[psychic duck]

Hinton doesn´t bother even getting into this at all and even says Contepomi is Argentina´s best player. In 2004 perhaps but not in 2012! He is like Jonny Wilkinson - still playing really well and could still lay claim to a starting spot in the test side. But this will just hold back the team, and this is what Contepomi has been foscused on - the team. Think about how good it has been for England to have Farrell given a shot. I am not sure seeing Contepomi, at 35, face Sonny Bill Williams would be all that good of a thing. He can still tackle, kick, run and pass but its one bite too many at the cherry. Above all else, Contepomi is a doctor himself and knows his limitations. Given the alternatives he is not crucial even though he is still playing well.

For 10 Argentina have Hernández who has, at last recovered and was 10 for Racing Métro this season. There is also Mieres who was a standout for Exeter. There is Nicolás Sánchez as a back up, he is also playing in France. Bosch cant be forgotten either.

For 12 Argentina have Fernández and Rodríguez. Two guys who were 12 all season for Montpellier and Stade Français. I wish Hinton had named some of these players. Of course, doing so would tear apart his argument.

How would Contepomi hold back the team? I don't understand the logic, how would the Rodríguez, Fernández and Bosch missing out to him do any harm to the team? It wouldn't.

Also Nicolás Sánchez and Marcelo Bosch have nowhere near been playing as well as Contepomi, who is on better form than all those options named and had a very good first two games of the June series.

Pichot along with the Hernández of 2005-07 has always been Argentina's best back by the way through most of the 2000's, and Contepomi for 2008-11 period when Hernández has been perma-crocked.

While the UAR is a highly problematic organization it is really doing well with the test players abroad. Again, Hinton makes no mention of this. There will, without doubt, be future occurances of players maybe needing to choose club or country. Two examples are Horacio Aguilla and Manuel Carizza. Horacio Agulla was released by Leicester. But, rivals, Bath are about to confirm his signature. Carizza has been released by Biarritz who were not happy with him playing in TRC. He will go into the PladAR system as he has gone for country over club. The point is that now there is something to fall backon as there are 10 players already under well paid deals with the UAR to stay in Argentina and be professionals. It is, btw, the start of what will be a Super Rugby team.

No it is not "doing really well", I don't call being forced to name an absolutely pants side that got trounced by France and now made the Pumas drop to eighth in the rankings "doing really well".

Also Carizza's name is still circling around the Scarlets a bit, see the Transfer Rumour Mill thread.

It does seem a shame that Contepomi won't play in the first Rugby Championship. Out of all the players in Argentina, I think he's certainly one of the most deserving to make that milestone, even if it is at 35 years old.

Exactly, Contepomi representing the Pumas in the inaugural 4 Nations would be a great finish to his Pumas career.

[Melhor Time]

Contepomi holding back the team is, in his words, down to him being aged and Argentina needing to move forward. Fernández being the guy for 12 with an eye to the future.

Incidently, a reliable source tells me Martín Rodripguez Gurruchaga is being prepared to be Argentina´s 13 this year.

No it is not "doing really well", I don't call being forced to name an absolutely pants side that got trounced by France and now made the Pumas drop to eighth in the rankings "doing really well".

Please don´t put words in my mouth.

[luchito]

No it is not "doing really well", I don't call being forced to name an absolutely pants side that got trounced by France and now made the Pumas drop to eighth in the rankings "doing really well".

You are being too harsh on the UAR in this aspect. The European clubs force the players to rest but they would have rested anyway if this arrangement didn't exist. Most of them haven't take a break in more than a year. They went straight from the World Cup to their clubs so more than a month of vacation for them seems right. Now we play every year a tournament which is more competitive and physically exhausting than a World Cup so they need to have fresh legs for it.

The downside is clearly not see some of the Euro players who didn't have many minutes like Bustos, Sanchez, Galindo, etc. Also the June matches will be used to see and evaluate new players so some embarrassing results against top nations will occur.

We need to maintain solid relationships with the European clubs. Our local players do not have first class competition, so if we want them to develop as "top" players, we need them to emigrate. The Pladar system is a great advance for Argentina but it is not enough. Super Rugby sides recruiting Argie players will be ideal because of calendar purposes but that market is closed for now. Having a Super Rugby franchise is still a long shot because of trips and time zones. So we need to give Euro clubs incentives to recruit our players.

[psychic duck]

While the UAR is a highly problematic organization it is really doing well with the test players abroad.

Please don´t put words in my mouth.

I didn't, I read this quote that the UAR is doing "really well with the test players abroad", and assumed you meant they have organised a good arrangement with the European clubs, did you mean something else?

You are being too harsh on the UAR in this aspect. The European clubs force the players to rest but they would have rested anyway if this arrangement didn't exist. Most of them haven't take a break in more than a year. They went straight from the World Cup to their clubs so more than a month of vacation for them seems right. Now we play every year a tournament which is more competitive and physically exhausting than a World Cup so they need to have fresh legs for it.

The downside is clearly not see some of the Euro players who didn't have many minutes like Bustos, Sanchez, Galindo, etc. Also the June matches will be used to see and evaluate new players so some embarrassing results against top nations will occur.

We need to maintain solid relationships with the European clubs. Our local players do not have first class competition, so if we want them to develop as "top" players, we need them to emigrate. The Pladar system is a great advance for Argentina but it is not enough. Super Rugby sides recruiting Argie players will be ideal because of calendar purposes but that market is closed for now. Having a Super Rugby franchise is still a long shot because of trips and time zones. So we need to give Euro clubs incentives to recruit our players.

You make the point yourself there, the current arrangement seems so inflexible regarding players, whilst somebody like Agulla, Leguizamon and Rodríguez have played all season for their clubs and in the World Cup for Argentina, there are others like Vergallo (getting hardly any game time for Toulouse), Bustos (second choice behind Jgenti at Montpellier), Figallo and Fernández Lobbe (only returned for the final month or so of the season) who should be able to be to play in the June matches

I don't see any reason at all why a player in Vergallo's circumstance shouldn't be able to play in these matches, thus showing the reason why the arrangement is too rigid and not flexible enough for common sense.

[ZeFrenchy]