I don't know enough players to name any, but I'm interested in who will be around in a few year's time.
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I don't know enough players to name any, but I'm interested in who will be around in a few year's time.
I'm bored so I'll give it a go for Ireland. There may be a greater majority of Leinster players then there should be. Presuming on some retirements.
Props: Healy, Furlong, Fitzpatrick, McGrath, Kilcoyne (probably too early for Ed Byrne Ross could well still be around)
Hookers: Best, Cronin, Strauss/Sherry (depends on whether whoever's coach picks project players)
Secondrows: Ryan, Toner, Tuohy, Henderson (again PO'C could still be around)
Backrows: Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Henry, a huge number of players could be fighting out for this spot e.g. Ruddock, Dom Ryan, DO'C 2.0, Butler, Conan (possibility of Ferris having to retire hopefully not.)
Scrumhalves: McGrath, Murray, Marshall (not great choice here but two are queit young and hopefully come good Marmion may get in ahead of Marshall)
Outhalves: Sexton, Madigan, Jackson
Centres: McFadden, Cave, Griffin
Backthree: Kearney, Fitzgerald, Gilroy, Conway, O'Halloran (huge possibility for change here Fitzgerald's injuries could continue, Bowe could still be able to do a job, Jones may have had a sustained run)
Of course this is open to a huge degree of change but this is who I'm picking at this moment in time. It'll be interesting to see how many are actually in it. Good blend in it with an average age of about 27.
Last edited by big ginger 8; 14-07-12 at 04:25 PM.
I agree with a lot of what big ginger 8 says. Some additions to it:
Prop:
Paddy McAllister (loosehead, Ulster) - potentially a step up from Tom Court but probably two years away from reaching that level.
Jamie Hagan (tighthead, Leinster) - had a poor season but will be approaching his prime in 2015. Ireland aren't blessed for 3s.
Hooker:
Brian Byrne (Leinster) - he'll only be 22/23 in 2015 but, provided Sean Cronin moves back to Munster, could be a bolter. Very talented.
Second Row:
Ryan Caldwell (Bath) - poor disciplinary record mitigated against a high skills level. Seems to be getting his head together in the Premiership.
Ian Nagle (Munster) - should get a chance with Munster by then. If you're a Munster second row, you get capped!
Backrow:
Peter O'Mahony (Munster) - versatile, young, capped already and a leader.
Dan Leavy (Leinster) - best backrow prospect to come out of Leinster since Jamie Heaslip IMO.
Conor Gilsenan (Leinster) - if Ireland want a fetcher, this is your man.
Scrumhalf:
Cupboard is bare. Perhaps John Cooney (Leinster) or Cillian Willis (Sale) because of their age profile but neither are top drawer. There's an insanely talented scrumhalf in school in Blackrock but it's probably too soon for him.
Flyhalf:
I don't rate Paddy Jackson.
JJ Hanrahan (Munster) - could be a 10 or a 12. Has real flair.
Centre:
Harrison Brewer (Terenure College School) - still in school so I'm reluctant to hype him but he has pedigree (son of Mike Brewer), size, power and a good offloading game.
Luke Marshall (Ulster) - strong, skillful and an eye for a gap. Could be a big year for him with Ulster.
Chris Farrell (Ulster) - not much subtlely to his game but is highly rated.
Nevin Spence (Ulster) - stocky, powerful player, bursts through defenders, no passing game to speak of.
Brendan Macken (Leinster) - always makes ground, runs excellent support lines, good offloader, general passing game is improving.
Winger/Fullback:
Shane Layden (Connacht) - had to throw a token westie in! Possibly a bit over reliant on the boot but runs brilliant lines and can be exceptional if he backs himself more.
The scrumhalf you're thinking of is only going into fifth year so yeah I'd doubt he'll be going (O'Farrell I think). I forgot about Hanrahan I'd take him over Jackson. I hadn't heard anything about Cronin back to Munster what's the likelihood? I'd agree a lot of these are possible bolters and was certainly considering some. Brewer could progress quickly presuming he stays in the centre already 104kg and could be in a year lower in school! Also has the hands necessary.
Very difficult to do an England squad - tons of potential players, very few nailed on. However, I'll give it a go.
Hooker - Hartley, George, Gray - Lancaster seems to prefer Youngs and Webber, but he's wrong. Honourable mention to Mike Haywood of Northampton, who I believe to be the dog's bollocks, but has a Hartley-shaped problem
Prop - Cole, Thomas, Corbisiero, Marler - So I hope. PDJ, Wilson and Stevens can't be discount as TH, nor can Mullan, Catt and Wood at LH. Knight, Collier, Brookes, Palma-Newport and Sinckler all potential for TH, Mako Vunipola and LCD for LH
Lock - Lawes, Launchbury, Matthews, Parling - That'll do me. Lancaster likes Kitchener, I'm not sure why. Garvey deserves a look-in but its not happening. Attwood, Slater and Kruis are the other big likelihoods floating around. Speaking of which, who saw Kruis bump Skinner like a bitch in the 7s? Beastly. In fact, maybe Kruis for Parling.
Back-row - Robshaw, Croft, Kvesic, Morgan, Clifford - Tons of competition here (sorry Tom Wood). So much I can't be arsed to list all the possible alternatives down the line.
Scrum-half - Youngs, Care, Simpson - More likely to be Lee Dickson, but I pray that the three named can iron out the bumps and present to the oppo every game the stone-cold certainty that they must never allow the scrum-half to break. Lee Dickson's well in the mix - other candidates Harrison, Young, Spencer, Wigglesworth, uhm... it's annoying that all the good scrummies are in a very tight knot of clubs.
Fly-half - Flood, Ford, Burns - Yes. Farrell can learn to do more than kick or GTFO. Heathcote and Cipriani deserve mentions.
Centre - Twelvetrees, Allen, Tuilagi, Jospeh - Oh christ. Please let something good happen here. Lowe and Daly possibles, so too... uhm... ah ****
Back-three - Ashton, May, Foden, Miller - Joseph and Burns add cover here. Plenty of potential, but it all needs to do something or in Wade's case, become an impregnable defensive titan so no one dares question him.
---
To comment on the Irish picks
I'd be hoping that Macklin and Paddy Mac are better players than Deccie Fitz and Court in a couple of years
Keatley deserves a mention - not least because he's probably the most versatile Irish 10.
Bowe will only be 31. Should be in the mix.
If you're counting project players, Payne becomes Irish the year before.
English by birth, Ulster by love of funny accents
Much Ado about Rucking - http://muchadoaboutrucking.blogspot.co.uk/ - cos you just loved reading the post above
Leicester - Youngs, Harrison, YoungOriginally Posted by Peat
Northampton - Dickson
Saracens - Spencer
Harlequins - Care
Wasps - Simpson
Gloucester - Robson
Decent spread imo. Youngs will be called up to England for a long time to come, so Leicester should be able to give good time to two scrumhalves. Reckon that one of Harrison and Young will establish themselves as second-choice and the other will move on (Sale? Worcester? France?).
Blah, Tuilagi is quality, still only 21, will gain a more balanced game in time. How to partner him is the concern, but there are so many options (as long as he keeps getting more time at 12), it should sort itself out in time.Centre - Twelvetrees, Allen, Tuilagi, Jospeh - Oh christ. Please let something good happen here. Lowe and Daly possibles, so too... uhm... ah ****
Do you rate Dan Robson? Everything I've seen of him leads me to believe he's really not that good.
Anyway, Wigglesworth is at Sarries along with Spencer; Karl Dickson's been kept out of the reckoning due to Care at Quins. 7 National candidates at 3 clubs is a poor spread imo, particularly when Simpson has a lot of work to do (so do some of the other names mind). Robson really needs to be playing and showing well at domestic level before he can be considered (not that I've followed this rule myself admittedly).
I refuse to be complacent about Tuilagi developing a balanced game, or us learning to use him effectively. History gives me little reason to be sanguine. My swearing is more to do with the state of 12 however.Blah, Tuilagi is quality, still only 21, will gain a more balanced game in time. How to partner him is the concern, but there are so many options (as long as he keeps getting more time at 12), it should sort itself out in time.
English by birth, Ulster by love of funny accents
Much Ado about Rucking - http://muchadoaboutrucking.blogspot.co.uk/ - cos you just loved reading the post above
I'll give the Welsh squad a go. Age at the time of the 2015 tournament in brackets.
Props: Ryan Bevington (26), Adam Jones (34), Rhodri Jones (23), Paul James (33), Craig Mitchell (29). Other possibilities are the Scarlets duo Samson Lee and Rob Evans. Gethin Jenkins will be touch and go at 35. His fitness could carry him through.
Hooker: Ken Owens (28), Richard Hibbard (32), Kirby Myhill (23).
Second Row: Ian Evans (30), Alun-Wyn Jones (30), Luke Charteris (32), Bradley Davies (28), Macauley Cook (23). Other contenders are Blues pair James Down and Cory Hill.
Back Row: Dan Lydiate (27), Sam Warburton (26), Toby Faletau (24), Justin Tipuric (26), Aaron Shingler (28), Luke Hamilton (23), Ryan Jones? (34). Not sure about Ryan Jones at 34! Other possibilities are Scarlets backrowers Josh Turnbull, Rob McCusker and Kieran Murphy and the Ospreys' Dan Baker and James King. There's also the nearly qualified two at the Blues of Andries Pretorius and Michael Paterson. Plenty of opensides coming through, but Sam and Justin look nailed on already.
Scrum Half: Rhys Webb (26), Tom Habberfield (23), Lloyd Williams (25). Might be difficult for Habberfild to make it at the Ospreys in time considering Webb and Fotoali'i are there. There are also the Scarlets bunch of Tavis Knoyle, Rhodri Williams and Gareth Davies.
Outside Half: James Hook (30), Rhys Priestland (28). I struggled here, because I'm not sure Priestland will last the long haul, but decided to go with him anyway. Biggar and Matthew Morgan are both definite possibilities. Hook will hopefully grow into the position and be our number one, although this is far from certain.
Centre: Jamie Roberts (28), Jon Davies (27), Ashley Beck (25), Scott Williams (24). Plenty of possibilities here with youngsters coming through at all the regions. I'm starting to get a little excited about Gareth Owen again, but that's massively premature.
Back Three: Leigh Halfpenny (26), George North (23), Alex Cuthbert (25), Liam Williams (24), Harry Robinson (22), Tom Prydie (23). I think we will see a resurgence from Prydie at the Dragons. Stoddart is a big possibility ahead of Prydie.
That's a squad of 34/35. Average age of the squad is 26 without Ryan Jones. Of course a hell of a lot will change between now and 2015. There are plenty of players from the recent U20 squad which I haven't named that will probably have a say. There's probably a lot I've forgotten.
Last edited by dullonien; 14-07-12 at 09:29 PM.
A couple others you haven't mentioned who I think could make 2015:
Marc Jones for Richie Hibbard (TRF_Olyy says he will likely move to Wales at some point to help get an international career)
Hanno Dirksen for Tom Prydie (Dirksen qualifies in 2014, and probably would have toured this summer in place of Brew if he was qualified)
A couple changes I would make to your squad.
Dan Biggar for Rhys Priestland
Also I think Rhodri Jones is in the Wales squad now because he plays both sides, but with two props on the bench rule soon incoming I think he will find it harder to stay in the squad ahead of Samson Lee or Jo Rees.
Jack Dixon/Cory Allen for Scott Williams.
Ross Jones for Liam Williams.
Depending upon Warburton's head, we could see Daniel Thomas or Ellis Jenkins in the back row.
If Screech and Hill develop as expected, I can see Charteris and Davies having less of a presence. Davies is too much of a penalty machine for my liking.
In Shaun we trust
@draggs_XV
Yeh, all very good points. I wasn't sure of Hibbard, although I do like him as a player, but keeps taking a step back every time he gets involved with Wales, be it injury or stupidity. Rhys Williams at the Blues is another, but the Blues management haven't given him the game time he deserves. Not seen a massive amount of Marc Jones tbh.
Dirksen will be a certainty once qualified. I know I shouldn't be excited by the prospect of a South African/American playing for Wales, but it's difficult not to get excited about Dirksen, he's an absolute gem of a player. Also watched an interview where he said he was already learning Welsh, and said a few quick words, better than some. I still think Prydie will be pushing hard. I can see him being first choice fullback at the Dragons, with the kicking duties to boot. First team experience on a consistent basis will help him develop further.
I am still not convinced by Biggar. But nor am I Priestland. I'm still hoping for Matthew Morgan to prove all the critics wrong and carve it up for Wales, but am also scared he'll be another Arwel Thomas.
Rhodri Jones is a good prop, especially on the loosehead side. It all depends if he's required with Bevington and Paul James, not to mention the possibility of Gethin Jenkins still being around. Samson Lee and Jo Rees should provide some much needed cover at tighthead. If both progress as hoped, we could have four good options at 3, which would be awesome.
Scott Williams is still a good player, still developing. Dixon and Allen should be up there though.
We'll have to wait and see re Warburton, but I expect to see him around for a long time.
I agree re Charteris and Davies. But I'm not sure the Blues can realistically develop all three of Cook, Hill and Screech, especially with Reed joining the Blues. I can see one being developed to international standard by 2015, two at a stretch, which is disappointing.
Last edited by dullonien; 14-07-12 at 10:22 PM.
Get Screech and Hill on 'development central contracts' or something.
We and the Turks could do with some second rows (not poaching of course, this is for the sake of the national side).
I just don't see how Scott Williams will fit in. He is an outside centre, but lacks the agility of Jonathan Davies. I still hope that Dixon or Allen will be developed at outside centre, and we get a playmaker at inside centre.
Blues have the shares on Welsh second rows: Davies, Down, Reed, Cook, Hill, Screech.
In Shaun we trust
@draggs_XV
I'm not sure Williams lacks agility. His finish against Fiji (I think) in the WC was excellent, turning the defender inside out. He's got a good step on him, and is quicker than he looks. I don't think he's certain of his place, but will be in the mix.
You would have said that about Ian Evans before his great return to form this season. After getting injured seriously he came back and was poor for a couple of seasons.
That reminds me of another thing to add to the list of the clown B&B's terrible decisions.
So if Dirksen will be a certainty in your opinion who would you put him in for?
Wales will certainly be in good stead come 2015. Of course it'll be an excellent chance for all the home nations (though probably not Scotland).
Looking at the Irish options I think if things work out we may actually have strength in depth. Except at 9 pretty much any injuries there and we are ****ed.
Only seen highlights tbh, which he seemed pretty decent in and I've read other Gloucester fans raving about him. (I can only watch Gloucester matches on tv, live in Sheffield.) Time will tell I guess.
I don't think Wigglesworth is a candidate tbh, and probably not young enough to get much better. I am worried that he'll eat away at time that Spencer could be developing at the Sarries though. Anyway, the top 4 SHs at the minute are Care, Youngs, Dickson and Haydn Thomas, all first-choice at different clubs. Hoping that Simpson will have a good season too. Most second-choice SHs get a decent amount of game time through appearances in the last 20 of matches, and England call-ups will see Harrison/Young and K. Dickson will get regular first-choice game time during the six nations. All-in-all, we have at least 6 decent SHs getting regular game time. Some nations barely have 6 scrum-halves in total!Anyway, Wigglesworth is at Sarries along with Spencer; Karl Dickson's been kept out of the reckoning due to Care at Quins. 7 National candidates at 3 clubs is a poor spread imo, particularly when Simpson has a lot of work to do (so do some of the other names mind). Robson really needs to be playing and showing well at domestic level before he can be considered (not that I've followed this rule myself admittedly).
I refuse to be complacent about Tuilagi developing a balanced game, or us learning to use him effectively. History gives me little reason to be sanguine. My swearing is more to do with the state of 12 however.
Just remember, we did well for ourselves against Australia with Hape and Tindall! We can definitely do worse than Allen-Tuilagi. There is that nagging feeling that Banahan will be called up again though...
Last edited by j'nuh; 14-07-12 at 11:55 PM.
Probably Prydie. Or if Prydie is going well, then maybe Prydie before Liam Williams. Second choice fullback is up for grabs, with Liam Williams, Tom Prydie and Ross Jones looking the three most likely to be in contention come 2015.
I really don't know how well Liam Williams would do with Wales.
He is a 100% player every match, but I just don't see the cutting edge like I do with a few others. I felt Dale Ford was the better prospect until his injury, and considering he was at fullback over Williams, so did the Turks.
It us Halfpenny's shirt to lose, and considering he is our best back, I don't see it leaving him. Prydie does have a good boot, and we all know how inconsistent Welsh goalkickers are.
Dan Fish seems to have faded into obscurity this year; he was with the sevens this season. With Halfpenny's emergence, he wasn't as desperately required as last year, when Chris Czekaj was the other option (Ben Blair being injured).
I don't think Lloyd will be starter for us. He has good service but is very unpredictable. Definitely better off the bench. If Jonathan Evans gets some time instead of the f*ckle brothers, have a look at him.
In Shaun we trust
@draggs_XV
Yeah, this is annoying. England are famous for playing crappy imports. Wales go and import one player, and he's absolutely quality! I'm excited about seeing him play for Wales tbf, think he could be special.
SA squad Maruis GoosenCoenie Oosthuizen EtzebethKitshoffTaute B. Du Plessis Morne Steyn
Whilst there is a tendency to feel sympathic towards other unions for their loss of Dirksen, he is showing himself to be wholly committed to Wales.
By the time he is eligible to be capped, he will have been in Wales for five or six years. One can't accuse him of going elsewhere purely for a quick cap (...), as he has already been offered international rugby.
@Shove, not sure if serious or...
We all know Butch James is the 2015 SA outside half.
In Shaun we trust
@draggs_XV
With Meyer in charge? Nope Morne Steyn or the Bulls reserve reserve flyhalf who only played ten minutes of rugby. Spies the captain. Naas Botha will be the defence coach and the backline coach with De Villiers the media liaisonWhilst there is a tendency to feel sympathic towards other unions for their loss of Dirksen, he is showing himself to be wholly committed to Wales.By the time he is eligible to be capped, he will have been in Wales for five or six years. One can't accuse him of going elsewhere purely for a quick cap (...), as he has already been offered international rugby.@Shove, not sure if serious or...We all know Butch James is the 2015 SA outside half.
Last edited by Shovenose; 15-07-12 at 02:33 AM.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
In Shaun we trust
@draggs_XV
I'd rather not see Wigglesworth there, but he'll do a job. Thomas is a good shout but seems completely on the outside. The situation's not bad, don't get me wrong, but you can't argue it would be ideal for all the candidates to be starting. Time will tell with Robson.Only seen highlights tbh, which he seemed pretty decent in and I've read other Gloucester fans raving about him. (I can only watch Gloucester matches on tv, live in Sheffield.) Time will tell I guess.
I don't think Wigglesworth is a candidate tbh, and probably not young enough to get much better. I am worried that he'll eat away at time that Spencer could be developing at the Sarries though. Anyway, the top 4 SHs at the minute are Care, Youngs, Dickson and Haydn Thomas, all first-choice at different clubs. Hoping that Simpson will have a good season too. Most second-choice SHs get a decent amount of game time through appearances in the last 20 of matches, and England call-ups will see Harrison/Young and K. Dickson will get regular first-choice game time during the six nations. All-in-all, we have at least 6 decent SHs getting regular game time. Some nations barely have 6 scrum-halves in total!
Just remember, we did well for ourselves against Australia with Hape and Tindall! We can definitely do worse than Allen-Tuilagi. There is that nagging feeling that Banahan will be called up again though...
I still hold the Hape/Tindall 'glory' days in utter awe as an example of how much rugby you can play without using the centres. It doesn't get the praise it deserves, although its understandable why. If Allen holds up well in defence I'll be happy with that - have minor reservations - but it's very slim pickings on inside centre atm. With very little obvious clues of where answers might come from.
On the named Wales squad - I find it highly unlikely any squad will go to the World Cup with only two fly-halves. Hook and two others for me.
English by birth, Ulster by love of funny accents
Much Ado about Rucking - http://muchadoaboutrucking.blogspot.co.uk/ - cos you just loved reading the post above
Tough for NZ, because there's always the odd bolter from the U20s, but
1. ??? Jesus I don't know, that's a terrible start. maybe Fraser Armstong and Wyatt Crockat? on the bench Ben Franks
2. Hika Elliot and Motu Matu'u (google him)
3. Owen Franks, Ben Tamefuna, Charlie Faumuina
4. Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick
5. Jarrod Hoeata, Anthony Borich
6. Victor Vito, Richie McCaw
8. Keiran Reid, Luke Whitelock
7. Sam Cane, Luke Braid, Avie Savea?
9. three of TJ P, Piri weepu, TK Barlow and Aaron Smith. Whoever misses out plays for the next heineken cup champions I reakon.
10. Beuden Barret, Lima Sopoanga, Aaron Cruden (actually maybe Perpingon will will the Heineken cup)
12. Ma'a, SBW or Ryan Crotty
13. Conrad Smith (c), Richard Kahui
11. Savea, Gear, Stowers, Poki, Peateau, whatever really.
14. Jane, Dagg
15. Smith, Taylor
Don't know where you've got your judgement of Haywood from. He likes to put in some big hits around the park but he always seems like a very chilled out young guy to me. In all honesty his skill set has the potential to see him surpass Hartley in the next 3 years. Recovering from a series of dislocations to his shoulder suffered last season at the moment. Whilst I rate him very highly and could well see him starting for England one day if he keeps progressing, I don't know if 2015 will be enough time to get himself established in an England squad in such a compeitive position.
I agree, it is very hard to pick a NZ squad due to the high level of talent we have available, and the fact we don't know which players will have left the country (or come back to the country) by then! I won't try to name a 30-man squad, but I might just add a few more suggestions:
1. Toby Smith is and outstanding prospect, and Reg Goodes looks the goods too...
2. Hardest position to pick IMO. Liam Coltman is a great prospect, while Quentin MacDonald could be good if he sorts out his injury problems.
4. & 5. Moli and Luatua are good young prospects, though Luatua may well be playing 6....
8. Brad Shields is an outstanding prospect at either 6 or 8.
12. & 13. Jason Emery could be a great option in a few years. Francis Saili is another.
Steven Lutaua could be fantastic, unfortunatley at the moment I think the only way for him to progress as a lock (he's a lock, make no mistake) is to go south to a fracheise that's not ruined, like the Chiefs or the Highlanders or Crusaders. He has all the skills if he has the nads to leave home. Its such a pity that the Blues are the new Waratahs.
I'm not convinced of this. Apparently he has played more as a 6 than a lock at high school, but was put at lock for the NZ Under 20's side. He states his preferred position is flanker, and his lack of height will count against his chances of playing test rugby as a lock. I'd predict he will start at 6 for Auckland during the ITM Cup, and looks to be the incumbent blindside for the Blues next season too - though it does depend on the Blues locking options.
Last edited by TRF_Darwin; 15-07-12 at 09:22 AM.
I'll have a go at Wales
1. Ryan Bevington, Rob Evans, Gethin Jenkins, Rhodri Jones, Paul James
2. Ken Owens, Emyr Phillips, Marc Jones, Richard Hibbard, Kirby Myhill
3. Adam Jones, Samson Lee, Joe Rees, Rhodri Jones
4. Bradley Davies, MacCauley Cook, Ian Evans
5. Alun Wyn Jones, Luke Charteris, Cory Hill
6. Dan Lydiate, Aaron Shingler, Rob McCusker, Josh Turnbull
7. Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Dan Thomas, Josh Turnbull
8. Toby Faletau, Kieran Murphy, Dan Baker, Rob McCusker
9. Rhys Webb, Rhodri Williams, Lloyd Williams, Tom Habberfield, Tavis Knoyle
10. James Hook, Rhys Priestland, Dan Biggar, Matthew Morgan, Jordan Williams, don't forget Steven Shingler or Jason Tovey
11. George North, Luke Morgan, Eli Walker if he get's his act together, Aled Brew if he does well in Biarritz
12. Jamie Roberts, Ashley Beck, Adam Warren, Jonathan Davies
13. Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Adam Hughes, Adam Warren
14. Hanno Dirksen, Harry Robinson, Alex Cuthbert, Liam Williams, Tom Prydie
15. Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams, Ross Jones, Tom Prydie, Steffan Jones
Bonus: Gavin Henson
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