Super Rugby play-offs: Crusaders - Bulls in Christchurch (21/07/2012)

[smartcooky]

Remorselessly steamrollered by a clinical Crusaders outfit. The home side went all out to get the lead, and then just kept the Bulls at arms length.

The Bulls were pants. They appeared clueless and at a loss to know how to generate some "go-forward". When Plan "A" (kicking the ball up the middle and chasing it) didn't work they appeared to be unable (or perhaps unwilling) to put Plan "B" into action. Perhaps they don't have a Plan "B'; with a one-dimensional "kick and hope" fly-half like Morne Steyn, I would not be surprised if they didn't.

[welshglory]

Peter Grant should be given a go by Meyer as well. Although his kicking game probably isn't long or good enough for international level.

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Lambie, Goosen and Jantjies are the best 3 fly-halves at the moment, with the latter being the least of the 3 haha.

[Sker]

Yet I can guarantee you M.Steyn will be starting come Rugby Championship...

[welshglory]

Lambie, Goosen and Jantjies are the best 3 fly-halves at the moment, with the latter being the least of the 3 haha.

Goosen's injured though...

[peanuts40]

Would rather have Lambie or Grant at 10. Actually would rather have Frans Steyn at 10, with JDV and JDJ in the centres.

[Sker]

F.Steyn at 10 is a bad, bad idea. It's been tried, it didn't work. He is a beast at 12 and that is where he belongs.

[cyRil]

F.Steyn at 10 is a bad, bad idea. It's been tried, it didn't work. He is a beast at 12 and that is where he belongs.

Was just fortunate for SA that the final nail in his coffin as a fly-half came in a BaaBaa's game and nothing more meaningful and competitive.

EDIT: Or was he playing for the BaaBaa's at 10? I can't remember now, but either way he was diabolical!

[TRF_Ezequiel]

If Morne Steyn and Zane Kirchner are starting in any match during the RC, Meyer proves he is just a moron as P Divvy.

[heineken]

Ugh! What a kak game to watch as a Bulls fan... Well done Crusaders, you were awesome!

Still proud of my team to get this far after so many top guys exiting last year, and after so many people wrote them off in the beginning of the year, to end in the top half of the competition is no small feat. Guys like Morne Steyn should rest now... To play every game week in and week out is bound to take its toll and it showed the last few weeks.

To go to Christchurch and outscore the Saders in the try dept is something to take as a positive, even though that's the only positive thing I saw today...

[TRF_Darwin]

A very impressive win to the Crusaders. I thought they completely outplayed the Bulls - if they keep playing like this over the next couple of weeks Super Rugby title number 8 could be theirs. I was particularly impressed how well the muscled up in the forwards, frequently driving the Bulls backwards in the tackle. Probably my only criticism of the Crusaders was there lack of inventiveness in attack. They really struggled to breach the Bulls defense lines most of the times. They did a great job of keeping hold of the ball, but spent quite a bit of time going side to side (rather than forwards) - the Bulls infringed frequently at the breakdown gifting the Crusaders easy points far too often - I do feel if the Bulls had simply backed their defense the Crusaders would have found it a lot harder to score. Outside of Carter there isn't really any creativity in the backline - Dagg can certainly provide this when on form, but he hasn't really displayed much form at all this season.

I thought both locks were outstanding for the Crusaders. Sam Whitelock was everywhere, and it was great to see him showing some real physicality in defense. Luke Romano looks more and more like an All Blacks every week - he made hard yards with ball in hand, took a number of good takes in the lineout, and like Whitelock made some good hits on defense. Todd and George Whitelock did their jobs well, but the real standout in the forwards was McCaw. He has gained a lot of size in recent years and has developed into a very powerful ball runner, his work at the breakdown is still strong, and he made some great hits in defense. He still looks to have a few good years in him yet!

Ellis was pretty good, as was Carter, though twice he failed to find touch from penalties, which is really unacceptable. I though Crotty was a bit of an unsung hero of the backline - his distribution was very good, but was really stood out was his defense. Numerous times he came up fast and nailed the Bulls players behind the advantage line, which prevented the Bulls from ever really getting any momentum in the backline. Dagg was pretty quiet (but at least made no errors that I remember), and though Guildford did some good things I don't think he did enough to convince the AB's selectors he should be in the AB's squad. He did run a great line to score his try, and I was impressed that he hit hard in the contact again this week (as he can be very passive at times).

I didn't focus too much on the Bulls players, but I was very impressed with J Potgieter.

[Shovenose]

I don't know why people go off at Morne Steyn so much. Darwin said something which was spot on.

I was particularly impressed how well the muscled up in the forwards

The Bulls use to do so well and Steyn use to do well because they dominated other teams upfront. But not this year as they have struggled to do it. Carter had so much time because his forward pack dominated. Show me a flyhalf having a great game when his pack is getting a hiding? Most ball he received was under pressure. What must he do? Pass it and put the guy next to him who is in a worse position than him under that pressure or put it to boot to relieve that pressure? Steyn looked a bit better in the 2nd half when his pack started to man up a bit upfront but most of the time they were out muscled by the Crusader pack. Slant me all you want but I said it earlier but that once great Bulls pack is gone and the scrum they use to place their pride and joy on are no more there. Even the Lions dominated them the week before. Same as in the South Africa vs England games. Our pack did not dominate like they would have liked as England stood up well. Steyn looked better but you can not really blame a 10 for having a bad game if his forward pack is getting a hiding. Can anyone tell me how Carter would do behind a losing pack? No one really knows as Carter had always a great pack infront of him. Not saying that he ain't class not at all. Just that he can most of the time express his qualities because his forward pack give him that time to do it.

[TRF_nickdnz]

I don't know why people go off at Morne Steyn so much. Darwin said something which was spot on.



The Bulls use to do so well and Steyn use to do well because they dominated other teams upfront. But not this year as they have struggled to do it. Carter had so much time because his forward pack dominated. Show me a flyhalf having a great game when his pack is getting a hiding? Most ball he received was under pressure. What must he do? Pass it and put the guy next to him who is in a worse position than him under that pressure or put it to boot to relieve that pressure? Steyn looked a bit better in the 2nd half when his pack started to man up a bit upfront but most of the time they were out muscled by the Crusader pack. Slant me all you want but I said it earlier but that once great Bulls pack is gone and the scrum they use to place their pride and joy on are no more there. Even the Lions dominated them the week before. Same as in the South Africa vs England games. Our pack did not dominate like they would have liked as England stood up well. Steyn looked better but you can not really blame a 10 for having a bad game if his forward pack is getting a hiding. Can anyone tell me how Carter would do behind a losing pack? No one really knows as Carter had always a great pack infront of him. Not saying that he ain't class not at all. Just that he can most of the time express his qualities because his forward pack give him that time to do it.

Beuden Barrett in every game this season but your point stands.

The one thing I will say is that no matter how the pack is doing, lately Morne Steyn has been pants. There are teams with much worse forwards than the current Bulls pack, where the flyhalf is able to create considerably more oppertunities than Steyn manages. In 2009 he was very good because like you said, South Africa had a very good forward pack, but he was equally as good because having the ball was a disadvantage, therefore up and unders and average kicks for territory were actually a good thing, as you had Bryan Habana chasing magnificantly and a forward pack (which Heinrich Brussow was the champion of) whom would put the tackled player in a position where they could get a penatly (which Steyn used to be extremely accurate at kicking).

He's a great player under rule interpretations where not having the ball is a good thing as he could place kick as well as anyone, extremely good at drop goals and he had a forward pack to do all the hard work and a scrumhalf who could control a game. Now he's just not especially good, and until he fixes his place kicking issues, he's a one trick pony without his one trick.

[Larksea]

impressive game from the crusaders. one thing that sticks out for me was the best game McCaw has had this season - he's not much of a #8 but around the park he was pretty damn awesome. His hands and his running game, awesome. I thought it was a matter of time before he got back into the swing of things, I think the wait is over. Not Good news for the Bulls.... or chiefs

That said I still think he can and should move to 6, even at the crusaders they have Todd so the move would actually improve the crusaders setup too I think.

Carter too, one of his better games this year, I think come playoff time they step up and must prepare and play as they would a test match.

Romano and Sam W were a very impressive combo as well, also thought Crotty played really well IMO he should be inline to take over Sonny Bills place in the AB squad.

[TRF_nickdnz]

impressive game from the crusaders. one thing that sticks out for me was the best game McCaw has had this season - he's not much of a #8 but around the park he was pretty damn awesome. His hands and his running game, awesome. I thought it was a matter of time before he got back into the swing of things, I think the wait is over. Not Good news for the Bulls.... or chiefs

That said I still think he can and should move to 6, even at the crusaders they have Todd so the move would actually improve the crusaders setup too I think.

Carter too, one of his better games this year, I think come playoff time they step up and must prepare and play as they would a test match.

Romano and Sam W were a very impressive combo as well, also thought Crotty played really well IMO he should be inline to take over Sonny Bills place in the AB squad.

Agreed. I think if his running game has improved to be a strong ball carrier, than #6 is the way to go at the Crusaders and All Blacks. He had a very good game against the Bulls at #8 and he's shown he's still very good at stealing the ball, but a lineup in the All Blacks with Cane and in the Crusaders with Todd, is a better lineup than without them.

[Larksea]

McCaw is quite clearly and openly resisting moving to 7 he's pretty honest to the public that 7 is where he wants to play so I bet behind closed doors he's even more so, playing #8 is ok because it's only short term to cover but a move to 6 would be more permanent - most loose forwards can cover 6 if need be so injury cover there is not his job. So I guess you can't blame Hansen and Blackadder for standing by him in that respect. But ignoring all that 6 is clearly the obvious and logical position for him.

shame really because with Kaino gone and a huge amount of young 7's around and the world cup a few years away the timing and situation could not be more perfect for him to make that move.

[Shaggy]

McCaw is quite clearly and openly resisting moving to 7 he's pretty honest to the public that 7 is where he wants to play so I bet behind closed doors he's even more so, playing #8 is ok because it's only short term to cover but a move to 6 would be more permanent - most loose forwards can cover 6 if need be so injury cover there is not his job. So I guess you can't blame Hansen and Blackadder for standing by him in that respect. But ignoring all that 6 is clearly the obvious and logical position for him.

shame really because with Kaino gone and a huge amount of young 7's around and the world cup a few years away the timing and situation could not be more perfect for him to make that move.

Yes, from a Crusaders point of view, perhaps 6 would be a better long term move for Ritchie, but, as the last few seasons have shown, you really need four or five good loose forwards, getting regular game time, as the seasons are so long that one player cannot be expected to start all matches, and still maintain good form or go through injury free ... so Ritchie is likely to split his time between 6,7, & 8 anyhow.

As for the AB's Vito, and your guy .... what's his name ... oh yeah, Messam .... or even Brad Shields are likely to occupy the blind side flankers jersey over the next few seasons ... Thomson's a possibility too, although he's over 30 now, and we might not get as many years service out of him

[smartcooky]

I don't know why people go off at Morne Steyn so much. Darwin said something which was spot on.



The Bulls use to do so well and Steyn use to do well because they dominated other teams upfront. But not this year as they have struggled to do it. Carter had so much time because his forward pack dominated. Show me a flyhalf having a great game when his pack is getting a hiding? Most ball he received was under pressure. What must he do? Pass it and put the guy next to him who is in a worse position than him under that pressure or put it to boot to relieve that pressure? Steyn looked a bit better in the 2nd half when his pack started to man up a bit upfront but most of the time they were out muscled by the Crusader pack. Slant me all you want but I said it earlier but that once great Bulls pack is gone and the scrum they use to place their pride and joy on are no more there. Even the Lions dominated them the week before. Same as in the South Africa vs England games. Our pack did not dominate like they would have liked as England stood up well. Steyn looked better but you can not really blame a 10 for having a bad game if his forward pack is getting a hiding. Can anyone tell me how Carter would do behind a losing pack? No one really knows as Carter had always a great pack infront of him. Not saying that he ain't class not at all. Just that he can most of the time express his qualities because his forward pack give him that time to do it.

I don't know that it is so much that they "go on" at him.

Morne Steyn is a good, workmanlike fly-half, but he has limited skill set, and those limitations were cruelly exposed on Saturday.

He's fine as long as his forwards are going forward and putting him on the front foot; he can sit back in the pocket and kick the Bulls into good field position. However, when his forwards are unable to achieve parity, and instead, are being shoved all over the park like they were on Saturday night, he doesn't have the necessary skills to deal with it. #10's like Dan Carter, Jonny Wilkinson, Freddy Michelak, Toby Flood etc, while they don't necessarily have "great games when their pack is getting a hiding" they at least know how to deal with the situation, ridng out the storm, but Steyn appeared all at sea until, as you correctly point out, he started to look good in the second half when his forwards managed to gain some ascendency.

[Icemn]

if i were a saders fan, i would not have been impressed with the saders performance...

the bulls were at times not even present yet the saders failed to dominate... the 1st half the saders should have scored 4 tries atleast...

the bulls were nowhere... but to be fair the bulls did deny the saders quick ball hence the kickable penalties, those could have been tries but still

i just felt that the bulls made the saders look good in a way...

if the bulls got rid of morne a little sooner (2007) then the bulls could have done a lot better... they looked better when the replacement flyhalf came on...

crusaders will have to improve on last weeks performance...