Saracens taking Heineken Cup pool match to Belgium

[Nielsch]

People hoping for a disaster probably won't get their way. The Stade Français - Ulster match organized in Brussels a couple of years ago sold over 30,000 tickets before it was cancelled. Combined with the tickets that would have been sold on match day, I'd call that a big success. I don't know why Saracens - Racing Metro would do any worse.

I'll certainly be there. Just like last time, when Brussels was covered with 10 inches of snow.

[Teh Mite]

Sarries season ticket holders should be hacked off about this. Smacks of "pandering to new business while having disregard for existing customers".

[Twebby]

Sarries season ticket holders should be hacked off about this. Smacks of "pandering to new business while having disregard for existing customers".

Sponsored by Sky.

[Peat]

Yes. I've never been to Germany and it'd be a great excuse to go! Looking at the big picture, if it got Leinster a load of cash and 30,000+ potential new fans who'll keep buying Leinster gear, increased TV exposure of the sport in that country and helped the development of German rugby (even in a small way) I'd be delighted.

Moving games from Watford to Wembley or Barnet is very similar to Leinster moving home games to the Aviva Stadium or the RDS. It's the same city. Creating event in Wembley is helping Saraens get their name out there and boosting their profile. Donnybrook became much to small for Leinster but that's because of progressive brand expansion which brought thousands of new fans. That's what Saracens are trying in my opinion.

I can understand the criticism Sarries are getting in the short term (from fans of other teams mostly) but think their long term strategy is to be commended. I want rugby to be a global sport. Saracens see the big picture too.

Watford's not in London. In fact, the fact they're coming back to London is one of the few pluses to their name at the moment.

End of the day I'd like to support a London club. If there had been one not guilty of massive cheating back when I got seriously into rugby, it's quite possible I'd not be an Ulster fan now. My vote, my pound, my loyalty is up for auction here. Sarries would have been a fairly tempting option in that Barnet's a fairly straight forwards journey for me. However, I won't be going now. I dislike the principles of any club that values this sort of stunt over its fanbase. I'm not sure I'm born to be a Quins fan, but I'm edging that way. Because it certainly going to be any of the others.

For all this talk of brand expansion, Sarries still get sub-6k crowds to some of their games. When you consider their league position, and that Quins didn't have an attendance below 10k, it would suggest to me that Saracens should be looking at some fairly hardcore profile boosting and brand expansion at home first and foremost. Their owners can't bankroll them forever.

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

it would suggest to me that Saracens should be looking at some fairly hardcore profile boosting and brand expansion at home first and foremost.

Which they do by playing games in Wembley. Didn't they play a friendly in the City last season too? I could be mistaken on that. Signing a bunch of England and South Africa internationals helps their brand recognition too. Playing in Brussels is merely another step towards boosting their profile.

My vote, my pound, my loyalty is up for auction here.

Saracens are chasing fans just like you in London/the London Metropolitan area, Milton Keynes, Cape Town, Brussels and other places. If they don't get your money, they'll get someone elses.

[Nielsch]

And it's not just Brussels. When a high profile team like Saracens takes a game to Brussels, it's sure to attract a lot of rugby fans from all over Belgium and the Netherlands.

[Teh Mite]

Which they do by playing games in Wembley. Didn't they play a friendly in the City last season too? I could be mistaken on that. Signing a bunch of England and South Africa internationals helps their brand recognition too. Playing in Brussels is merely another step towards boosting their profile.


Saracens are chasing fans just like you in London/the London Metropolitan area, Milton Keynes Cape Town, Brussels and other places. If they don't get your money, they'll get someone elses.

If that example is anything to go by, a place of existence is their only current objective - saints are running the mk fixture (and taking most of the profits from ticket sales too boot). I half suspect its the same score with some of the other stroling minstrel fixtures.

[Amiga500]

As the adage goes... where in London is Saracens?


They are a nomad team, so don't be surprised if they act like it.

[Teh Mite]

As the adage goes... where in London is Saracens?


They are a nomad team, so don't be surprised if they act like it.

St. Albans, if we're being fussy.

[Tony Manx]

I don't know. To me Perpignan playing in Barcelona, Biarritz playing in San Sebastian, Bourgoin playing in Geneva and Stade Francais organising a match in Brussels was perfectly fine in the name of expanding the appeal of the tournament into new territories. Why not Saracens in Brussels then?

Soccer can get away with preseason tours in far flung places because of the massive global appeal of the Premier League, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munchen and the big Italian teams. Rugby doesn't have the pulling power to send second rate teams on tour and draw big money.


Since the NFL have started playing regular season games in London, the Super Bowl has been shown on the BBC and there's a live game each weekend on Channel 4/5. TV rights packages have increased massively. There's talk of an expansion franchise in London in the not too distant future. I'd call that a massive success.


Because nobody would care. People aren't stupid. If there's nothing riding on a game, there's no interest in it. Again using the NFL as an example, they stopped playing preseason games in Europe because nbody cared and NFL Europe was an unmitigated disaster which folded a few years ago. People want to see the best, not some watered down product.

1. Do not like Biarritz's matches in San Sebastian and like many BO supporters do not go! I do not not condone any teams using these away grounds for home fixtures even though the prices charged, ie Wembley Saracens matches, are lowered to almost nothing to ensure the grounds are filled with so called supporters...

2. NFL games in London did not introduce games to TV.........I had American Cup Final parties back in the 1980's to watch them on TV live but we all got bored as there were too many breaks and everyone got drunk and fell asleep as much with the beer as the "sport"!!

3. "Nobody would care....." if these so called supporters were at all interested in rugby they would attend pre season friendlies *from all over Belgium and the Netherlands" just to get a glimpse of the stars of the game in the flesh!!!

[Nielsch]

1. Biarritz moves their HC games to San Sebastian cause ERC regulations don't allow them to play in their own stadium (too small). Kinda hard to blame this on your own club tbh. It's the nearest stadium that is suitable.

2. What have your lame parties got to do with TV rights, live coverage of regular season games (not just the Superbowl) and talks about a brand expansion into London?

3. "If these so called supporters were at all interested in rugby they would attend pre season friendlies". Seriously, what's with the anger here? I play rugby, I travel around Europe to visit rugby matches, I pay to watch rugby but if I won't visit a nearby pre-season friendly from a professional club instead of a nearby Heineken Cup match all of a sudden I'm a "so called supporter" who's not interested in the sport? What a load of bollocks.

Seriously, get your head out off your ass.

[Teh Mite]

Pre-season games never draw hugely - last year saints and leinster rematched the HEC final, using 2nd strings, pre-season and didn't pull big crowds. They're doing the same this year and I'll suspect the crowd will be fewer then 10000 at FG. A far cry from a full house in Cardiff.

Sarries are chasing a quick buck, kicking their regular home support (those who maybe cannot afford to travel to Europe for a home game) square in the balls. Even if the crowd is big, full of neutral supporters the atmosphere will be flat. Or even hostile towards them in support of BO.

"Expanding the game" is typical Eddie Griffiths spin and a smoke screen for the real reason they're carrying out the move.Sarries certainly won't pull in new fans abroad whith their gimmicky songs and half-time pop-music acts.

[Tony Manx]

1. Biarritz moves their HC games to San Sebastian cause ERC regulations don't allow them to play in their own stadium (too small). Kinda hard to blame this on your own club tbh. It's the nearest stadium that is suitable.

2. What have your lame parties got to do with TV rights, live coverage of regular season games (not just the Superbowl) and talks about a brand expansion into London?

3. "If these so called supporters were at all interested in rugby they would attend pre season friendlies". Seriously, what's with the anger here? I play rugby, I travel around Europe to visit rugby matches, I pay to watch rugby but if I won't visit a nearby pre-season friendly from a professional club instead of a nearby Heineken Cup match all of a sudden I'm a "so called supporter" who's not interested in the sport? What a load of bollocks.

Seriously, get your head out off your ass.

Seriously I have no anger issues what so ever...............I am trying to have a reasonable discussion!!

Biarritz regularly move Top 14 games to, and, indeed, tomorrow night are playing Bayonne in a pre-season friendly in, San Sebastian!

You made the point that the recent NFL games brought TV coverage into the UK...I was trying to say that they did no such thing but in a humorous way!

I would not call the people who turn up to the odd game no matter who is playing (for instance in Brussels that could be any one of Racing, Stade, Wasps, Saracens etc) that happens to be in their vicinity "supporters" of those clubs playing....I feel "supporters" are the season ticket holders and regular attendees or followers of a particular club the real supporters as they are spending their hard earned cash every season on their club.

You may prefer to differ, as is properly your right to do so and I really do have no problems with that but can assure you that, had my head been stuck up my arse, it would have made typing a tad more difficult than it already is for me!!

[Peat]

Which they do by playing games in Wembley. Didn't they play a friendly in the City last season too? I could be mistaken on that. Signing a bunch of England and South Africa internationals helps their brand recognition too. Playing in Brussels is merely another step towards boosting their profile.


Saracens are chasing fans just like you in London/the London Metropolitan area, Milton Keynes, Cape Town, Brussels and other places. If they don't get your money, they'll get someone elses.

All the London clubs are part of the big days out and all that. What have Sarries got beyond that?

However, I misspoke. I should have ignored the corporate language and said instead - Sarries should be working hard at attracting and keeping fans in the Greater London area. Because that's not the same as profile raising. And, if they are working hard at it, they're failing miserably. And part of that is because they are not focusing on London, and serving the guys who go to game after game, in pursuit of support in Brussels and Cape Town! People don't want to be part of that. My evidence for that is anecdotal, but it's a fairly wide range of anecdote, a lot of it drawn from a club with an affiliate link to Saracens. Who incidentally, don't really put up much advertising posters. And, of course, my anecdotal evidence would suggest that my views are fairly representative of a number of people (including failing to support a London rugby club), and that if they fail to get me, they'll fail to get them as well.

Nielsch - How many people do you know, in your general area, who you think would be willing to travel to London and go watch a Saracens game 2-3 times a season? More? How many of those people, having decided to make such a trip, would insist on going to see Sarries out of loyalty to them having played that game, and not instead go see Quins, who don't play a godawful style of rugby?