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All Blacks training squad (excluding Chiefs players) Blues: Charlie Faumuina, Keven Mealamu, Ma'a Nonu, Piri Weepu, Ali Williams and Tony Woodcock. Hurricanes: Beauden Barrett, Dane Coles, Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Conrad Smith and Victor Vito. Crusaders: Dan Carter, Wyatt Crockett, Israel Dagg, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Zac Guildford, Richie McCaw, Kieran Read, Luke Romano and Samuel Whitelock. Highlanders: Tamati Ellison, Hosea Gear, Andrew Hore, Aaron Smith, Ben Smith and Adam Thomson. Still a number of talking points. No Andre Taylor again, I did not expect him to be selected but seemed the media were pciking him before the squad was named. No Elis again, expected this time but still. He's been a lot better than Weepu - not hard to do though NZ has 4-5 better halfbacks than Weepu right now. the non selection of Ryan Crotty, pretty much means they will select SBW and that they will use Ben Smith and Ellison as cover for Conrad Smith. Next most interesting is the non selection of Jason Eaton (and the inclusion of Ali Williams) - Jason will be gutted, I guess many will feel he deserves a recall. With Romano and Williams both kinda injured and Eaton not selected does that mean a call up for Craig Clarke? It's very much an unknown factor who will be picked from the chiefs. Even though they have been NZ's best super team this season. Cruden, Cane, Retalick, SBW for sure but that's only four? Pretty light for NZ's best side. IMO Messam should be selected that will mean either Vito or Thomson will drop out. Tameafuna and Barlow likely wont make it. Same for Hika. You never know.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o.../kakahitsm.jpg "The laughing bear, drives a motorcycle" - Israel Dagg, Sep - 2011 Cometh the hour, cometh the Don!
I was hoping for a bit more of a sea change, i would ranther loose the odd game now whilst sorting some new combos than leave it till a few months out before the next world cup..i mean ali? weepu?it's one thing to include the guys for their experience when you've also got the guys playing better than them but when they are taking the play of someone performing better than them you have to be worried
I dont expect much change. key being a new head coach who has to prove himself. The selection of Coles is interesting. A couple of performances of his towards the end of the season were pretty damn good. In particular that last game against the chiefs. has he leapfrogged hika?
Dane Coles = penalty waiting to happen. He's like a lightweight version of Dylan Hartley and an average scrummager to boot. Selection fail. Ah! just noticed Ali Williams, so this post must be trolling - you got me!!
Squad looks to be: Props - Franks, Franks, Woodcock, Faumauina Hookers - Hore, Mealamu Locks - Whitelock, Retalick, and two of (/including due to injury) Williams, Romano, Clarke Loosies - McCaw, Read, Messam, Cane, Vito, Thomson Halfbacks - Smith, Weepu First Fives - Carter, Cruden Centres - Nonu, Williams, Ellison Outside Backs - Dagg, Jane, Savea, Gear Utility - Smith My preferred 22 would be: Woodcock, Hore, Franks Retalick, Whitelock Messam, McCaw, Read Smith, Carter Nonu, Ellison Smith/Gear, Dagg, Jane Mealamu, Faumauina Romano/Clarke, Cane Weepu, Cruden Williams/Smith
seriously, Ali Williams is just picked so that he and Rob Simmons can go out the back and have tea and scones during the bledisloe matches. As much as i'm a wallabies fan and I want the all blacks to always lose, selections like Ali Williams frustrate the hell out of me considering the immensely good pool of players nz have at their disposal.
Ali isn't one of our two or even three best locks anymore but I think he still has a place in the squad. take him out and the experience pretty much halves. Whitelock and Retalick are both babies like 23 & 21? With Thorn gone, Boric injured and Donnelly not even holding down a starting spot in super rugby. I think we are a bit short on depth. We do have Clarke and Eaton, Eaton never established himself as a test player again after a couple of nasty injuries. Prob too late now. Clarke you would think would be first in if there was an injury but 28 is getting on a bit if he's not bade it yet. I think Hansen in particular believes it takes a few years to develop a lock once you expose them to test rugby. I think that will make it tough for late bloomers to get into the squad. not much to bother about really. Whitelock and Retalick are two of the best and most talented young locks in the world (along side Etzebeth). the Key really is looking after them, grooming them to be world class for the next 10 or so years.
Originally Posted by Larksea Ali isn't one of our two or even three best locks anymore but I think he still has a place in the squad. take him out and the experience pretty much halves. Whitelock and Retalick are both babies like 23 & 21? With Thorn gone, Boric injured and Donnelly not even holding down a starting spot in super rugby. I think we are a bit short on depth. We do have Clarke and Eaton, Eaton never established himself as a test player again after a couple of nasty injuries. Prob too late now. Clarke you would think would be first in if there was an injury but 28 is getting on a bit if he's not bade it yet. I think Hansen in particular believes it takes a few years to develop a lock once you expose them to test rugby. I think that will make it tough for late bloomers to get into the squad. not much to bother about really. Whitelock and Retalick are two of the best and most talented young locks in the world (along side Etzebeth). the Key really is looking after them, grooming them to be world class for the next 10 or so years. wasn't Richie captain at 23? i cant stand this whole picking someone for their experience alone rubbish, just like in the past when a captain has been selected even if not first choice in their position, pick the 22 best players...end of. If you need these guys around then you taken them on as coaches/trainers/motivational speakers
I think experience counts to a certain degree. But luckily, we still have the most capped All Black ever in Richie, and highly capped game general (Dan Carter 85+ caps).
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Originally Posted by Jabby wasn't Richie captain at 23? i cant stand this whole picking someone for their experience alone rubbish, just like in the past when a captain has been selected even if not first choice in their position, pick the 22 best players...end of. If you need these guys around then you taken them on as coaches/trainers/motivational speakers correct, you pick your team in any sport on fitness, ability and form.
this is not a team, it's a squad I don't think it's unusual either I know at the chiefs Romana Graham has basically had a full time job analyzing opposition lineouts, plays an important role and when needed because of injury he is more than capable of playing. I think Ali fits that same role, heck he has more experience with line outs than any of the All Black coaching staff. i think the squad needs Ali right now. The gotya is that they may not need him for the same role next year if he does not improve his game Sam will have another year under his belt and maybe Boric will be back - I actually think Ali can get back some of his form. Needs the blues pack as a whole to improve with him.
Originally Posted by Larksea take him out and the experience pretty much halves. Experience, experience, ex-f*cking-perience... lets take "John Smit" ex SA hooker... all the experience in the world... but can't run for 5min... what good is his experience to you??? what??? is he going to shout across the field to inspire and motivate a youngster??? "Run with it, run with it!!! side step now!!!".... experience in sport is overrated!!! if you have a cool head under pressure from the word go... who needs experience?? wtf is experience??? learning the rules over a period of time? you should know your rules.... or is experience enabling you to keep cool under pressure... taking time, hence experience... look how good certain players are... look at etzebeth... youngster... what 16odd S15 caps to his name... he outperformed experienced players in that S15 semifinal... look at barrett, in that debut test vs Ireland... he was brilliant, came on fokol "experience" at that level... so my question is? would you rather have experience, or someone who can actually keep up with the physicality of the game...
This can't be Naas Botha.........This man is running with the ball...
Barrett had one of the easiest debuts ever. Experience is vital in close match situations.
Originally Posted by big ginger 8 Barrett had one of the easiest debuts ever. Experience is vital in close match situations. so the pressure was not on?? ireland just threw in the towel?? did'nt attack? for barrett to tackle... didn't defend when barrett ran???
He came on after about 20 minutes with N.Z. up by 21 points. His pack were in control and outside him SBW was on fire and he had some of the best outside backs in the world. And yes the Irish players heads definitely dropped. It doesn't get much easier for an outhalf.
Originally Posted by big ginger 8 He came on after about 20 minutes with N.Z. up by 21 points. His pack were in control and outside him SBW was on fire and he had some of the best outside backs in the world. And yes the Irish players heads definitely dropped. It doesn't get much easier for an outhalf. you might have a point, but take nothing away from barrett, he was been pure class... even if it was a close game, he still would have performed... been doing it all year with a poor to avg forward pack at the canes... aaron smith also made his debut when the pressure was on and he performed, sam cane performed, didn't romano make his debut too :? i don't wane trot too far off topic here, but i feel experience is overated... UNLESS you are cool under pressure from the word go...
The important factor you're forgetting is that these players were surrounded by experience. Smith had Carter etc. It's different if there is a lack of it all around.
experience is so critical, sure there are some players that come into test rugby and and look good from game one. But a lot, I think most of players don't really seem to find their feet till they have 20 or more tests under their belt
A very predictable looking training squad - the only big surprise for me in the inclusion of Dane Coles (who I'm not a big fan of). Ali Williams inclusion indicates that he must be close to being back to full fitness, as I'd imagine they will take 4 locks in the 4Nations squad. Either that or the are seriously considering Craig Clarke, whose inclusion would be entirely justified based on this seasons form. Not surprised to see Weepu included, but I'd imagine he will be under a lot of pressure from Kerr-Barlow to make the final squad. I would have liked to have seen another midfielder in the squad (Crotty would have been my choice). They are obviously hoping that Conrad's Smith recovery will coincide with SBW's departure - however if Smith takes a bit longer to recover I feel they will be left a bit thin in the centres.
Originally Posted by TRF_Darwin A very predictable looking training squad - the only big surprise for me in the inclusion of Dane Coles (who I'm not a big fan of). Ali Williams inclusion indicates that he must be close to being back to full fitness, as I'd imagine they will take 4 locks in the 4Nations s..... Don't call it the "4 Nations" - makes it sound like some boring wet-weather type of play of a competition... It's the "Rugby Championship" good sir.
there will only be two hookers in the actual squad so the chances of coles or hika elliot actually making the squad are slim to none. I think Hansen has talked about Clarke as someone they are keeping a close eye on.
Originally Posted by admartian Don't call it the "4 Nations" - makes it sound like some boring wet-weather type of play of a competition... It's the "Rugby Championship" good sir. I will call it whatever I want I am quite aware of the correct name for the tournament. "The Rugby Championship" is a ridiculous name for the tournament, and until they settle on an accepted abbreviation for the tournament (TRC?) I'm going to continue to call it the 4Nations.... Originally Posted by Larksea there will only be two hookers in the actual squad so the chances of coles or hika elliot actually making the squad are slim to none. I think Hansen has talked about Clarke as someone they are keeping a close eye on. I agree, the chance of Coles or Elliot making the final squad are slim. I'm just hoping that the inclusion of Coles is simply due to the fact they just want to have a closer look at him, rather than that he has gone past Elliot as the third choice hooker...
Originally Posted by TRF_Darwin I will call it whatever I want I am quite aware of the correct name for the tournament. "The Rugby Championship" is a ridiculous name for the tournament, and until they settle on an accepted abbreviation for the tournament (TRC?) I'm going to continue to call it the 4Nations.... All good. Wasn't being serious.
Should've been the Quad Nations...
Originally Posted by admartian All good. Wasn't being serious. I was being serious. Deadly serious. I'm sure you could have felt the anger radiating from me, through the interweb, and onto you
i don't know why they included Argentina in anycase :? fcked up history in the process!!! tri-nations gone if ARG, they might aswell include fiji, Samoa and have a 6 nations...
Originally Posted by TRF_Darwin I was being serious. Deadly serious. I'm sure you could have felt the anger radiating from me, through the interweb, and onto you I had to take a day off work just to recuperate from the burns on my skin. Damn it hurts! Originally Posted by Invictus Should've been the Quad Nations... As opposed to the previous "Thigh Nations"...? (see what I did there?) Originally Posted by Icemn i don't know why they included Argentina in anycase :? fcked up history in the process!!! tri-nations gone if ARG, they might aswell include fiji, Samoa and have a 6 nations... Argentina is legit. I'm hpapy that they're in. Only strengthens rugby as a game worldwide. I wish there were other (Oceania/pacific) nations in the Super Rugby comp.
