2012 IRB Junior World Championship

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  1. #41
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    No Elliot Daly either. Might be them resting his dodgy knee, might be promotion straight to the senior squad... I think we can probably be sure that no Anthony Watson is injury rather than senior squad considering his age though

    I have to say, although I called it, I'm not convinced by the move of promoting Ford.

    Anyways.

    That's... well, it's not bad, but it's not great either.

    Forwards wise, a lot of them are a year young and it does show. Kyle Sinckler was the pick of the ball carriers in the 6N, he is like a 6ft version of Steffon Armitage. Ben Nutley and Matt Kvesic are the two most experienced players there, both have ranked up a lot of Prem and European appearances already - 15 and 19 respectively - both have made their names as 7s, but I imagine Kvesic will play 6 to accommodate Nutley. Could be other way around. They're likely to play Jack Clifford with him, who's a lanky 8 who runs great support lines, although I'd quite like to see David Sisi in there somewhere, as he is f**king huge. No Billy Vunipola either, no idea why.

    Backs wise, there's a lot of talent there. Ben Spencer's had a fantastic season for Sarries as a distributing 9 and has already played for the Saxons, Dan Robson is a playmaking 9 who offers a lot more sniping. Tom Heathcote's had a real breakthrough season at Bath and is a classy option to have at 10, Ryan Mills has been in the 22 most of the season for Glaws and is an all-round 10/12. Charlie Walker will probably play at 13, he's a bit light but is seriously quick with a great step and has played a bit of 7s for England this year along with a great 6N, while outside him all of Addison, Yarde, Elliot and Bassett have played a lot of club rugby this season with plenty of success. The problem with the back-line is a lack of cohesion and the fact that most of them like to go around people rather than through, it could all get a bit lateral.

    Ultimately, I don't think we have the pack to win it, and we don't quite have the backs to Australia our way out of it.

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  3. #42
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    I'd say Yarde is more than capable of running people over played the senior team in my school in a tournament two years ago and ran through all of them a few times in the final.
    "The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people and so long as men die, liberty will never perish."
    -Charlie Chaplin (kinda)


  4. #43
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    I think we might see 10. Heathcote, 12. Mills, 13. Addison. That's who I'd pick anyway.
    Bell could make a case for 10, but Heathcote's better and Bell has played 15 all season for Leeds. Will probably make the bench though (I'd have Ransom starting at 15).

    It's good to see Harrison in there as well, he's an absolute unit. Can play either side of the scrum (1 usually, but played 3 during the 6 nations and went very well there - probably due to his size/strength. I think loosehead is where his future will be)

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by big ginger 8 View Post
    I'd say Yarde is more than capable of running people over played the senior team in my school in a tournament two years ago and ran through all of them a few times in the final.
    No offence BG8, but there's a bit of a difference between your school and SA/NZ U20s; hell, I'm guessing even the Irish U20s, although I wouldn't be too surprised to learn your school's represented in the squad. Yarde's not small, but he's not built to take the direct route, not like a Tuilagi. Only Sam Hill's really approaching that scale. Between him and Javiah Pohe, I think next year's U20s might be a little bulky in the centres...

    edit: Olyy, are you guessing on Harrison's future due to him being better on that size, or because of a looming impediment to his progress at tighthead at Sale And maybe on Addison, they preferred Walker through the U20s but that's no guarantee, either promises some real gas.

    Also, am I alone in not really rating Ransom...?
    Last edited by Peat; 01-05-12 at 05:43 PM.

  6. #45
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    Yeah stupid example I know but he is a beast built similarly to S. Armitage imo and quiet powerful similar in many respects to Siviatu though obviously nowhere near as good yet.
    "The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people and so long as men die, liberty will never perish."
    -Charlie Chaplin (kinda)


  7. #46
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    Built similarly to S. Armitage?
    Are we thinking of the same player? The 13st something winger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    edit: Olyy, are you guessing on Harrison's future due to him being better on that size, or because of a looming impediment to his progress at tighthead at Sale And maybe on Addison, they preferred Walker through the U20s but that's no guarantee, either promises some real gas.

    Also, am I alone in not really rating Ransom...?
    Ah, but Addison was injured throughout the 6N, but started the first game he was fit again. Either/or though, they're both good players, I'm just a bit biased towards Addison as I see him more (and he had a hand in Millers first vs Gloucester with a great offload).
    I was never a big fan of Ransom before this 6N, but thought he played well.

    Harrison plays looshead for us - i'm not sure he started a game at tighthead for the u20s but definitely played there off of the bench a couple of times.
    I suppose he's like Corisiero - a loosehead who can play tighthead at a push. I don't think he'd play there if you could have two props on the bench internationally.
    Last edited by TRF_Olyy; 01-05-12 at 07:47 PM.

  8. #47
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    Uhm, yeah. Although its not so much weight - Yarde's nearly 14 stone - as body shape, Yarde looks quite trim, SArmitage looks like a baby seal... I'd deffo agree he's got some power to him though.

    Olyy - Fair point on Addison coming back in for the last game.

    And fairly sure Sinckler's started all games this season at TH. Thomas/Harrison sounds a fairly exciting potential combo...

  9. #48
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    Personally, I'm a fan of Ben Ransom. A brilliant counter-attacker..

  10. #49
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    Aus U20 squad:

    Allan Alaalatoa (NSW), Curtis Browning (QLD), LindsayCrook (NSW), Steven Cummins (NSW), Thomas Cusack (ACT), James Dargaville (NSW), Allan Faalavaau (VIC), Con Foley (QLD), Nicholas Frisby (QLD), Liam Gill (QLD), Kyle Godwin (WA), Malietoa Hingano (NSW), Lewis Holland (ACT), Jed Holloway (NSW), Oliver Hoskins (WA), Sam Jeffries (NSW), Silatolu Latu (NSW), Apolosi Latunipulu (NSW), Matthew Lucas (QLD), Leslie Makin (ACT), Sean McMahon (QLD), Benn Melrose (NSW), Maile Ngauamo (QLD), Pettowa Paraka (QLD), Sam Reiser (QLD), Hugh Roach (NSW), Christopher Sautia (QLD), Ulupano Seuteni (QLD)

  11. #50
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    Is this Liam Gil any use seen him for the reds a few times and the commentators have said hes a great prospect but he seems anonymous to me.
    Soon we shall rejoice

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  12. #51
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    IMO He's been playing pretty good for the Reds this season. I'd imagine he'd be a top flanker at this level.

  13. #52
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    Gill is an excellent prospect.
    "The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people and so long as men die, liberty will never perish."
    -Charlie Chaplin (kinda)


  14. #53
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    The Ireland squad (lifted from boards.ie):
    Jake Cawley Old Belvedere Prop
    Tadhg Furlong Clontarf Prop
    Des Merry Clontarf Prop
    Peter Reilly Lansdowne Prop
    James Rael Garryowen Hooker
    Niall Scannell Dolphin Hooker

    Tadhg Beirne Lansdowne Lock
    Iain Henderson Queen's University Belfast Lock
    Alan O'Connor University College Dublin Lock
    Shane Buckley Garryowen Flanker
    Jordon Coghlan University College Dublin Flanker
    Aaron Conneely Corinthians Flanker
    Conor Gilsenan Mullingar / University College Dublin Flanker
    Josh Van Der Flier University College Dublin Flanker
    Jack Conan Old Belvedere Number 8
    Kieran Marmion Corinthians Scrumhalf
    Luke McGrath University College Dublin Scrumhalf
    JJ Hanrahan University Limerick Bohemians Flyhalf
    Paddy Jackson Dungannon Flyhalf
    Cathal Marsh Trinity College, Dublin Flyhalf
    Chris Farrell Dungannon Centre
    Foster Horan Lansdowne Centre
    Sam Coghlan-Murray University College Dublin Wing
    Barry Daly University College Dublin Wing
    Shane Layden Buccaneers Fullback
    Peter Nelson Dungannon Fullback
    Mikey Sherlock Clontarf Fullback
    Stuart Olding Belfast Harlequins Utility Back

    squad of 28.
    4 munster
    5 ulster
    16 leinster
    3 connacht

    Strongest team IMO:
    Nelson, Coghlan-Murray, Farrell, Hanrahan, Layden, Jackson, McGrath; Merrey, Scannell, Furlong, Buckley, Henderson, Gilsenan, Conneely, Conan
    Last edited by snoopy snoopy dog dog; 08-05-12 at 01:51 PM.

  15. #54
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    Sweet jesus; are Leinster really that far ahead at U20 level?

  16. #55
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    Strangely, at u20 level this season, Connacht won the championship beating all of Leinster, Munster and Ulster. In general though, Leinster are miles ahead of the other provinces in underage rugby.

  17. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy snoopy dog dog View Post
    Strangely, at u20 level this season, Connacht won the championship beating all of Leinster, Munster and Ulster. In general though, Leinster are miles ahead of the other provinces in underage rugby.
    I know that Leinster generally win everything at that level, with the odd success from the others; but 16 players in a squad good? Is Irish age grade rugby really well served by basically picking the entire Leinster side, and then the best from the rest? A lot of those Leinster kids will get lost in the system at a guess, because there's too much input, and even allowing for overflow the experience will be wasted. Is Barry Daly really that much ahead of Robert Henshaw, Stephen MacAuley or Rory Scholes, to pick three talented players who are far closer to first team reckoning, for instance? I've honestly no idea, it just looks really weird and unhelpful, and was curious to see what you guys thought.

    You'll also note two of the guys I named are U19 this year - atm, Ireland only have 4 guys returning next year. Given how good this year's U19s are, and the advantages in returning players, I'm slightly surprised they haven't axed some of the squad guys in favour of younger bucks too.

    Also, Van Der Flier should really be a winger with that name. What's the story there? Immigrant parents, over at school, shameless poach?

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    I know that Leinster generally win everything at that level, with the odd success from the others; but 16 players in a squad good? Is Irish age grade rugby really well served by basically picking the entire Leinster side, and then the best from the rest? A lot of those Leinster kids will get lost in the system at a guess, because there's too much input, and even allowing for overflow the experience will be wasted. Is Barry Daly really that much ahead of Robert Henshaw, Stephen MacAuley or Rory Scholes, to pick three talented players who are far closer to first team reckoning, for instance? I've honestly no idea, it just looks really weird and unhelpful, and was curious to see what you guys thought.

    You'll also note two of the guys I named are U19 this year - atm, Ireland only have 4 guys returning next year. Given how good this year's U19s are, and the advantages in returning players, I'm slightly surprised they haven't axed some of the squad guys in favour of younger bucks too.

    Also, Van Der Flier should really be a winger with that name. What's the story there? Immigrant parents, over at school, shameless poach?
    I don't really want to hijack this thread so I'll answer the bulk of it in the Leinster thread.

    I'm surprised that Kyle McCall and Danny Qualter didn't make it. Neither are from Leinster!

  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    I know that Leinster generally win everything at that level, with the odd success from the others; but 16 players in a squad good? Is Irish age grade rugby really well served by basically picking the entire Leinster side, and then the best from the rest? A lot of those Leinster kids will get lost in the system at a guess, because there's too much input, and even allowing for overflow the experience will be wasted. Is Barry Daly really that much ahead of Robert Henshaw, Stephen MacAuley or Rory Scholes, to pick three talented players who are far closer to first team reckoning, for instance? I've honestly no idea, it just looks really weird and unhelpful, and was curious to see what you guys thought.
    I see your point but surely the team is picked on the basis of who the best players are. There's definitely merit in selecting guys because you think they have a better chance of making it through the system but it seems like it'd be very unfair on the players who weren't picked even though they were the best in that position in their age group. Also at what point would you decide you've enough players from one of the provinces and you should start looking for others? There's definitely a lot of sense in what you're saying bit I can't see how it'd be made work in practice.

  20. #59
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    I'm guessing McCall and Qualter are injured. I'll take the rest of it to the Leinster thread as well.

  21. #60
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    Some very talented prospects in the Irish team yet our defense will still make painful watching against England and South Africa.
    "The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people and so long as men die, liberty will never perish."
    -Charlie Chaplin (kinda)


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