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    A Political Thread

    Let's give it a go! Here is a thread for all political topics.
    These things can get fiery, so I ask that we establish a few ground rules (please contribute if you can think of any).
    -Firstly, provide sources. This goes for all articles (especially due to rights and all), quotes, figures, etc.
    -No foul language (the forums stance is to avoid it). In this thread swearing (whether self, auto censored, or attempts to get around the censor) will result in a removal of the post. Exceptions are limited to quotes (with sources)
    -No direct attacks on members (this goes for any thread really)

    Anything else? Not trying to create nanny-forum, but I think we can have some good discussion and want to keep things on track.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_Draggs View Post
    Let's give it a go! Here is a thread for all political topics.
    These things can get fiery, so I ask that we establish a few ground rules (please contribute if you can think of any).
    -Firstly, provide sources. This goes for all articles (especially due to rights and all), quotes, figures, etc.
    -No foul language (the forums stance is to avoid it). In this thread swearing (whether self, auto censored, or attempts to get around the censor) will result in a removal of the post. Exceptions are limited to quotes (with sources)
    -No direct attacks on members (this goes for any thread really)

    Anything else? Not trying to create nanny-forum, but I think we can have some good discussion and want to keep things on track.
    Too late!

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    A forum I used to go on had a ban on discussing abortion, because it was the one topic that always led to monkey-like poo-slinging. So I propose that's where we start.

    Pro-choice all the way.

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    No No! Hunting is always the best one to raise a few pulses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j'nuh View Post
    A forum I used to go on had a ban on discussing abortion, because it was the one topic that always led to monkey-like poo-slinging. So I propose that's where we start.

    Pro-choice all the way.
    A bunch of lads on here talking about women-bits, delightful.

    I am more interested in discussing the political landscape personally, so that is where I will contribute.

    Any particular favourites as far as political writers go?

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    Landscape?

    It all kind of merges into one. You have a tory party preaching cuts and a labour party attacking them for it but the Tories have been spending more than labour did. An Economy that is kind of working despite 60 billion going of the interest of our borrowing every year, a liberal party who despite having the full backing of the BBC are no longer of political significance and a party in UKIP that despite the best intentions of the BBC and other liberal media sources are gaining ground peddling a load of easy answers.

    I mean who would want to run the country?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_Draggs View Post
    A bunch of lads on here talking about women-bits, delightful.
    If someone was going to disagree with me, that was going to be my next line. Hmpf.

    Seriously though, what's goading me at the minute, is the Tories first electoral poster:



    - 1.75 million more people in work: Lie. May 2010 - 29.3m in work. August 2014 - 30.7m in work. That's an increase of 1.4m, not 1.75m. They are taking credit for a drop in unemployment before they actually came into power, for some strange reason. Also worth noting that there are currently 1.4m zero hour contracts where someone has worked some hours within a two week reference period, and 1.3m zero hour contracts where the person has worked no hours in the reference period. How is that a workforce to be proud of?
    - 760,000 more businesses: Technically true, but misleading. 707,200 of these businesses are unregistered and have no employees, pay no VAT or PAYE. Puts the above figure into perspective, that nearly half of the increase in workers is down to people working self-employed and on their own. That doesn't scream enterprising to me, but hard times.
    - Deficit halved: Lie. The deficit-by-GDP has been halved, but the actual deficit has only been reduced by a third.

    In case anyone was interested in the strategy that the Tories were going to fight the next election...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_Draggs View Post
    A bunch of lads on here talking about women-bits, delightful.

    I am more interested in discussing the political landscape personally, so that is where I will contribute.

    Any particular favourites as far as political writers go?
    How about you make some statements eh?

    I saw a rather interesting newspaper article the other day suggesting that we are barking up the wrong tree when trying to get the Germans to agree with us on EU reform, simply because they don't want to regard themselves as leaders of the EU, and that we should be looking at working with the Eastern Europeans; who are an increasingly powerful voting bloc, who are worried about the prospects of a brain drain, and who are worried about Russia and wouldn't wish to see the UK edging away from the table. It pointed out that the Netherlands and Poland have been working together since 2009 to stop Poles getting stranded there on benefits; we could emulate such things ourselves.

    Personally, I regard Europe as a fairly distant third issue at the very least behind the Deficit and Climate Change; there are probably other things that should come first. But then, I live in London, and in London European immigrants have been little but good. I don't live in some small East Anglian town that has changed overnight and maybe if I did my views would be different; I am very uneasy about the way the Londoners I know treat UKIP, which is based on issues that are mostly foreign to them, and leads to the public bloodsport that keeps Farage at the centre of attention 24/7 regardless of whether it's a good idea.

    I think my top five demands for any politician would be
    - Take climate change very seriously
    - Support British manufacturing to the hilt
    - Have the balls to stand up and be sane on immigration
    - Recognise the huge and upcoming issue of rebuilding our infrastructure
    - Eh, put the frighteners up TalkTalk until my connection is good. I don't really have five.

    Basically I want someone to show that they can put the British economy and quality of life back on an even keel. The rest looks after itself. Apart from nature, that kinda needs a helping hand.
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    how about a political discussion (whether they should pay higher taxes for example) on the salaies paid to rugby players in the TOP 14 !!!!!!! only joking!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    How about you make some statements eh?

    I saw a rather interesting newspaper article the other day suggesting that we are barking up the wrong tree when trying to get the Germans to agree with us on EU reform, simply because they don't want to regard themselves as leaders of the EU, and that we should be looking at working with the Eastern Europeans; who are an increasingly powerful voting bloc, who are worried about the prospects of a brain drain, and who are worried about Russia and wouldn't wish to see the UK edging away from the table. It pointed out that the Netherlands and Poland have been working together since 2009 to stop Poles getting stranded there on benefits; we could emulate such things ourselves.

    Personally, I regard Europe as a fairly distant third issue at the very least behind the Deficit and Climate Change; there are probably other things that should come first. But then, I live in London, and in London European immigrants have been little but good. I don't live in some small East Anglian town that has changed overnight and maybe if I did my views would be different; I am very uneasy about the way the Londoners I know treat UKIP, which is based on issues that are mostly foreign to them, and leads to the public bloodsport that keeps Farage at the centre of attention 24/7 regardless of whether it's a good idea.

    I think my top five demands for any politician would be
    - Take climate change very seriously
    - Support British manufacturing to the hilt
    - Have the balls to stand up and be sane on immigration
    - Recognise the huge and upcoming issue of rebuilding our infrastructure
    - Eh, put the frighteners up TalkTalk until my connection is good. I don't really have five.

    Basically I want someone to show that they can put the British economy and quality of life back on an even keel. The rest looks after itself. Apart from nature, that kinda needs a helping hand.
    I think you would struggle to find a politician supporting those 5 ideas. When you say take climate change very seriously, what do you propose?

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    LOL, I'd have loved to see Big Ewis in a thread like this... or maybe not, I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by j'nuh View Post
    A forum I used to go on had a ban on discussing abortion, because it was the one topic that always led to monkey-like poo-slinging. So I propose that's where we start.

    Pro-choice all the way.
    I'm 50/50 pro-choice only in the case of rape. If you are pregnant and had consentual sex that's both parent's baby to deal with as you made your choice (to have sex) and pregnancy is a very likely result so don't murder the child because you have regrets about your decisions IMO.

    There. My views stated and that should get things started I think :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallshort View Post
    No No! Hunting is always the best one to raise a few pulses.
    I've no problem with responsible and well regulated hunting. In SA the hunting industry is well regulated and directly funds conservation without which there probably would not be a single living rhino left in SA as an example and I don't think I am overemphasizing- those rhino poachers mean business. Lets be honest the natural balance has been compromized for the most part even in our less developed areas and needs a hand in controlling numbers as well. Just good conservation practice IMO.

    I am generally against;
    - China bullying small countries (SA is an example)
    - China manipulating their currency
    - China in general
    - Multiculturalism
    - Over-centralized governments
    - Sponsored governments
    Erm, quite a few other things as well.

    Specifically, I would very much like an Afrikaner nation state. I don't feel represented by my government. Actualy, I feel alienated.. and we don't have a 'homeland to go back too'. Anything would be fine; a small part of the desert for instance as long as we have acces to some water and a harbour.
    Last edited by TRF_stormer2010; 14-01-15 at 11:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_stormer2010;701952
    I'm 50/50 pro-choice only in the case of rape. If you are pregnant and had consentual sex that's both parent's baby to deal with as you made your choice (to have sex) and pregnancy is a very likely result so don't murder the child because you have regrets about your decisions IMO.

    There. My views stated and that should get things started I think :P



    I've no problem with responsible and well regulated hunting.

    I am generally against;
    - China bullying small countries (SA is an example)
    - China manipulating their currency
    - China in general
    [B
    - Multiculturalism[/B]
    - Over-centralized governments
    - Sponsored governments
    Erm, quite a few other things as well.

    Specifically, I would very much like an Afrikaner nation state. I don't feel represented by my government. Actualy, I feel alienated.. and we don't have a 'homeland to go back too'. Anything would be fine; a small part of the desert for instance as long as we have acces to some water and a harbour.
    Generally I think there's a difference between a fetus in the first trimester and a child. I feel at that stage a human hasn't developed any sense of identity, contentiousness or other fundamental factors that constitute what it means to be a human. It's more the potential of life than being human in my opinion. While obviously being more developed - I dispatch the potential of human life as regularly as I possibly can, on the good days in a rubber and on the bad days in a tissue. If a woman trips down the stairs while pregnant and loses the child, no one calls in manslaughter as they might if she dropped her child down a flight of stairs. So I think calling it murder is a stretch even if we did consider it a living human.

    What's wrong with multiculturalism? There are many instances where multicultural societies have virtually no conflict and result in a rich a varied shared culture. I think it's only ever an issue in instances where cultures that have a historical conflict are forced to amalgamate without conflict resolution.

    What's wrong with multiculturalism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_nickdnz View Post
    Generally I think there's a difference between a fetus in the first trimester and a child. I feel at that stage a human hasn't developed any sense of identity, contentiousness or other fundamental factors that constitute what it means to be a human. It's more the potential of life than being human in my opinion. While obviously being more developed - I dispatch the potential of human life as regularly as I possibly can, on the good days in a rubber and on the bad days in a tissue. If a woman trips down the stairs while pregnant and loses the child, no one calls in manslaughter as they might if she dropped her child down a flight of stairs. So I think calling it murder is a stretch even if we did consider it a living human.
    Well, I guess that's where your view on what constitutes life and mine differs. Abortion, Euphinasia.. there are just so many issues where the best bet is to just let the issue be and let each person determine his own way. In that sense I am pro-choice in that I am not at all for law and regulation other than having a professional, trained and liable person perform the abortion to come into the issue. I do feel though people should not discount the less tangible side of life and should go through a rigorous consultation process prior to making a decision for themselves that they feel they can live with. I know of a woman who had an abortion only to regret it later on. I am sure there are plenty (maybe even the majority) who are happy with it. It's just a very difficult situation to deal with and one of the reasons I also believe in abstainence outside of a marriage and no rape. Also, I would not be one of those persecuting a mother who lost a child due to an accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF_nickdnz View Post
    What's wrong with multiculturalism? There are many instances where multicultural societies have virtually no conflict and result in a rich a varied shared culture. I think it's only ever an issue in instances where cultures that have a historical conflict are forced to amalgamate without conflict resolution.

    What's wrong with multiculturalism?
    I think you'll find that either the minorities then have adapted hugely or have been accommodately hugely to what would be a very accepting culture in the first place or that there have been some sort of enough cmmon ground to start off with and even then some flexibility on all party's side. Generally compromize also happens only if there is a balance of 'power' and/or massive common ground. Erm, I think my sentence has gone wrong but I hope my intended meaning is still there somewhere.. So, nothing wrong with the idea of it in essence if a happy marriage is possible and no-one feels marginalized but some cultures just clash and that is largely my own personal experience. And that is what my post above was; my view based on my own experiences rather than a general consideration which I am happy to accept if that is what others want for themselves you won't find me trying to force them into another way but at the same time I feel I have my own views. I do think it's a beautiful ideal though so in some sense me being a seperatist is a cop out. I love diversity but wnat it seperate if that makes sense; I love pumpkin, love lamb, love spinach but enjoy them seperately so savour each flavor individually and appreciate each one's richness on their own terms in their own context. In that sense I would rather visit different cities with their own flavor than it being a case of seen one mixed city, seen them all to take it too extremes to illustrate even if the reality is somewhere in between in most cases.
    Last edited by TRF_stormer2010; 14-01-15 at 11:01 AM.

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    Let's be honest politicians are not in charge. The whole world is run by shady organisations..... or aliens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
    Let's be honest politicians are not in charge. The whole world is run by shady organisations..... or aliens
    Agreed on the decisions being made behind the scenes. And leaders who are in the way get moved out of the way. Look at Gaddafi. I had no love for the man and he was a tyrant but that didn't make any difference up until he made a move for something that would actually benefit Africa; a move to a continental currency backed by gold. He didn't last long after that; bad for business.

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    There's a double standard when it comes to multiculturalism where minorities are expected to fit in and adapt to their host nation's culture, whilst simultaneously they are being rejected by the majority for being too different. How can you fit in when things such as burqa bans, white flight (and ghettoisation), institutional racism and racism in general exists? Why is the onus upon the poorer and voiceless racial communities to fit in and not on the majority to be more accommodating?

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    Quote Originally Posted by j'nuh View Post
    There's a double standard when it comes to multiculturalism where minorities are expected to fit in and adapt to their host nation's culture, whilst simultaneously they are being rejected by the majority for being too different. How can you fit in when things such as burqa bans, white flight (and ghettoisation), institutional racism and racism in general exists? Why is the onus upon the poorer and voiceless racial communities to fit in and not on the majority to be more accommodating?
    The typical answer would be because they chose to live there.

    Personally, I think a government is stupid if it tries to regulate culture. Football is part of working class British culture. If they stopped playing football and took up Croquet should the government force them to keep watching football? Any attempts by a government to make people adhere to one culture very clearly goes past what a government should be doing. If you want to be successful in a new country then you will have to adopt some of that country's culture anyway.

    I think that immigrants should just be expected to adhere to the laws of a particular country and this includes accepting the freedom to criticise religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j'nuh View Post
    There's a double standard when it comes to multiculturalism where minorities are expected to fit in and adapt to their host nation's culture, whilst simultaneously they are being rejected by the majority for being too different.
    If you don't respect the nation's culture then don't go there. Hence why you won't see me in Saudi Arabia or wherever any time soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psychic duck View Post
    If you don't respect the nation's culture then don't go there. Hence why you won't see me in Saudi Arabia or wherever any time soon.
    that makes absolutely no sense.
    Last edited by goodNumber10; 14-01-15 at 01:07 PM.
    And like that he was gone...

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodNumber10 View Post
    that makes absolutely no sense.
    But it makes perfect sense; Duck knows enough about Saudi Arabia (as an example) to know that he does not care to adhere to generally accepted values over there so he stays away since he won't fit without something somewhere having to give.

    In the same vein I have my own set of values but you won't find me moving to Swaziland and then insisting on poligamy being outlawed or gay persons to not be murdered (not law but communities would turn a blind eye). Yet the 'West' has to accept the reverse?
    Last edited by TRF_stormer2010; 14-01-15 at 01:34 PM.

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