Backline Dilemma for Gatland in the British Lions Team

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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint4805 View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if Ali Price outshines him in the next game at Murrayfield. Great form for Glasgow and now has his chance to show what he can do on the international stage.
    Also majority around him are club mates so shouldn't be too much adjustment of
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    Also majority around him are club mates so shouldn't be too much adjustment of
    True. He has a great understanding with Finn Russell which should lead to him raising his game too along with the rest of the backline hopefully. His only issue might be a lack of Scots in the coaching team who would put his case forward if it's a tight call between him and the likes of Webb or Care. This goes back to Gatland picking Howler as head attack coach which in my opinion could well end up costing the Lions a series win.
    Last edited by Saint4805; 15-02-17 at 08:42 PM.

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    missing 3 points a game is one thing, the bigger risk is having a game where he misses 5-10 points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    Also majority around him are club mates so shouldn't be too much adjustment of
    But this is Gatland we're talking about. He knows Webb and has picked him. I reckon he may well pick Webb over Youngs. (Most likely both but in that order)

    Murray, Webb and either Youngs or Price for me.

    On another note, an outside shout would be Moriarty at 4/1. Competition for back row places is so so competitive, but seeing as Robshaw is 1/3, I'd say Robshaw is only marginally more likely to go on tour as things stand.

    It's interesting to see what the consensus is in the rugby community compared to the bookies. I'm sure there's some value to be had if a cheeky punt is your thing (no that's not cockney rhyming slang).

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    But this is Gatland we're talking about. He knows Webb and has picked him. I reckon he may well pick Webb over Youngs. (Most likely both but in that order)

    Murray, Webb and either Youngs or Price for me.

    On another note, an outside shout would be Moriarty at 4/1. Competition for back row places is so so competitive, but seeing as Robshaw is 1/3, I'd say Robshaw is only marginally more likely to go on tour as things stand.

    It's interesting to see what the consensus is in the rugby community compared to the bookies. I'm sure there's some value to be had if a cheeky punt is your thing (no that's not cockney rhyming slang).
    Unless he plays out of his skin against Wales and England, I doubt that Price will be in the conversation given that it's Gatland we're talking about. It'll be Murray, Webb and either Youngs or Care. Picking Youngs would mean no real dynamic impact option from the bench so it'll be interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint4805 View Post
    Unless he plays out of his skin against Wales and England, I doubt that Price will be in the conversation given that it's Gatland we're talking about. It'll be Murray, Webb and either Youngs or Care. Picking Youngs would mean no real dynamic impact option from the bench so it'll be interesting.
    Agreed. Although out of Youngs and Care, it always appears that whoever starts is a liability and who comes on brings the spark. I guess that's what the reserve SH is supposed to do (and there's more space/tired legs etc), but it's incredibly frustrating as an England fan.

    Youngs is 1/5 whereas Care is 9/2. I'd say that Youngs is certainly more likely as the incumbent for England, but that seems a bit off. Also Halfpenny is 1/5 to make the tour. I'd say he's way more likely to tour than Youngs unless he gets crocked! Hogg, Halfpenny and Brown I guess. Although, could Gatland opt for a couple of wing/FB hybrids instead of Brown and save some places. I.e. Watson, Nowell, Zebo to name just a few?

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    Think regards back 3 you need guys like an Elliott Daly who can play in number of spots. Interesting I read somewhere 7/8 backrows and 5 locks will tour Gatland said.
    Last edited by munstermuffin; 16-02-17 at 09:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    Think regards back 3 you need guys like an Elliott Daly who can play in number of spots. Interesting I read somewhere 7/8 backrows and 5 locks will tour Gatland said.
    The same as 2013 then. I'd be gutted for Robshaw if he misses out again. He's not flashy but England's first two games have shown just how important he can be. Definitely my England and Harlequins cap on here, but what a guy to have on tour! And he's beaten New Zealand too.

    Daly in certainly doing he best to feature. However I'm pretty sure Gatland has his provisional squad nailed down regardless of what he has come out and said. He has form for ignoring form! I'm not sure Elliot Daly would have come into his thoughts until now. Possibly too late? We'll see!

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    I don't know if it too late as Gatland in fairness would be brave to back wildcards. Like I think he showed that in 2013. Style wise he is conservative but has balls when making selection calls I believe regarding squad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    I don't know if it too late as Gatland in fairness would be brave to back wildcards. Like I think he showed that in 2013. Style wise he is conservative but has balls when making selection calls I believe regarding squad.
    Although he didn't really pick any wildcards until injuries made him. Wade was a surprise, but that was due to injury and he played a part of one midweek game. Same with Zebo. His inital squad wasn't really that revolutionary. We certainly have a better group of players this time round. The only real weakness I can see is strength in depth in the centres. And possibly the form of some of the back 3 incumbents (North, to some extent Halfpenny - although I expect Hogg will be the test starter)

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    Although he didn't really pick any wildcards until injuries made him. Wade was a surprise, but that was due to injury and he played a part of one midweek game. Same with Zebo. His inital squad wasn't really that revolutionary. We certainly have a better group of players this time round. The only real weakness I can see is strength in depth in the centres. And possibly the form of some of the back 3 incumbents (North, to some extent Halfpenny - although I expect Hogg will be the test starter)
    While that's true he may benefit in that aspect from previous tours. And you are right there is a better pool of selection options
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    Although he didn't really pick any wildcards until injuries made him. Wade was a surprise, but that was due to injury and he played a part of one midweek game. Same with Zebo. His inital squad wasn't really that revolutionary. We certainly have a better group of players this time round. The only real weakness I can see is strength in depth in the centres. And possibly the form of some of the back 3 incumbents (North, to some extent Halfpenny - although I expect Hogg will be the test starter)
    I think Maitland might edge out Zebo. Can cover 15, playing for Sarries, knows NZ rugby and is also a kiwi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint4805 View Post
    I think Maitland might edge out Zebo. Can cover 15, playing for Sarries, knows NZ rugby and is also a kiwi.
    Zebo may not tour. But I'd say he's alot more flexible than Maitland and has a good kicking game for a 15. And to be fair is in top form regardless of being 15 or wing. Not that it will matter much as I'm sure Halfpenny and Hogg will tour and be 15s and Williams is ahead of both as a 15 too
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    Zebo may not tour. But I'd say he's alot more flexible than Maitland and has a good kicking game for a 15. And to be fair is in top form regardless of being 15 or wing. Not that it will matter much as I'm sure Halfpenny and Hogg will tour and be 15s and Williams is ahead of both as a 15 too
    Zebo will for sure be on the standby list and may well get a call to fly out as a replacement like last time. There will be injuries with such a brutal schedule and 15 starting the first test will probably have at least one or two who are not in contention right now.

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    But he may well tour. I don't know how Gatland will see it. For example I may see great things in a player and you don't see anything in him. That comes from how you see the style that should be used. And I genuinely can't judge how Gatland will go. Will he be naive to think you'll just bash through kiwis. I hope not
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    Zebo may not tour. But I'd say he's alot more flexible than Maitland and has a good kicking game for a 15. And to be fair is in top form regardless of being 15 or wing. Not that it will matter much as I'm sure Halfpenny and Hogg will tour and be 15s and Williams is ahead of both as a 15 too
    I don't think Williams is ahead of Hogg at FB. Especially as Gatland like Howley loves Liam on the wing. Test back 3 for me is Hogg, Williams, Watson.

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    Backline Dilemma for Gatland in the British Lions Team

    I don't see much in Zebo as a winger. I don't think he's got either the pace or the power/strength to really be a quality finisher. For the Lions wing I'd have him behind the England 4 (Nowell, Watson, May, Daly), North, Williams, Maitland, Seymour and Byrne as a bolter. At FB he's behind Hogg, Williams, Halfpenny, Payne (if fit), Daly, Maitland and maybe Brown IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    I don't think Williams is ahead of Hogg at FB. Especially as Gatland like Howley loves Liam on the wing. Test back 3 for me is Hogg, Williams, Watson.
    Sorry meant Williams is ahead of Zebo and Maitland
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyBeastTeague View Post
    I don't see much in Zebo as a winger. I don't think he's got either the pace or the power/strength to really be a quality finisher. For the Lions wing I'd have him behind the England 4 (Nowell, Watson, May, Daly), North, Williams, Maitland, Seymour and Byrne as a bolter. At FB he's behind Hogg, Williams, Halfpenny, Payne (if fit), Daly, Maitland and maybe Brown IMO.
    You're severely underrating him here (overrating Maitland and Daly too) and have completely disregarded his aerial, passing and kicking play as well as his attacking intelligence which he's in the top two of any of the wings named and up there amongst the 15's too. He'll play the rest of the season at 15 and if Gatland brings three 15's again they should be 3 of Hogg, Williams, Halfpenny and Zebo unless Payne plays there which he won't. He's also a proven finisher, scoring every 3.75 games in Ireland sides that rarely scored out wide and he averages a try every other game for Munster too.

    He wouldn't be in my squad because his defence and maturity need to improve but he's certainly a contender.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyBeastTeague View Post
    I don't see much in Zebo as a winger. I don't think he's got either the pace or the power/strength to really be a quality finisher. For the Lions wing I'd have him behind the England 4 (Nowell, Watson, May, Daly), North, Williams, Maitland, Seymour and Byrne as a bolter. At FB he's behind Hogg, Williams, Halfpenny, Payne (if fit), Daly, Maitland and maybe Brown IMO.
    And thats my point. In my eyes he's a natural finisher and has a record to back it up. He's Munsters record try scorer and 1 of best try/games ratio going. But that's my point on we will see different things.
    On Byrne I think even Alpha, his biggest fan, will admit Byrne is nowhere near Zebo now. May pissibly be sooner rather than later as will Sweetnam but both will rightfully be nowhere near Lions.
    FWIW I'd have Zebo ahead of alot on your list for wing and at 15 too. I don't think Maitland or Seymour will be near Lions tour
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

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