Backline Dilemma for Gatland in the British Lions Team

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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    To be fair, this thread is about the back line dilemma and other than sexton and Murray who are nailed on so don't require much debate, there is only really henshaw (who again is most likely to go) and maybe Zebo to discuss. None of the others get close for me. Ringtone as a wildcard maybe?
    Well thank god. Murray doesn't need it.
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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    Historically, three FBs go. So Hogg, Halfpenny and one of Brown, Zebo, Payne I guess if fit. Kearney is crocked. I'd say Brown is third in line.

    They talk about having winning personalities within the wider squad. Don't think there's anyone more competitve. Reckon he'll be picked as a result.

    Let me know if I've missed anyone.
    I'd disagree on Brown as I rate him but he's not a 15 I'd bring. Plus no need to bring a specialist 15 as 3rd choice. He is nowhere near good enough as a winger. Same goes for Halfpenny. They can play there but are 15s so can't see an more than 2 of Hogg Halfpenny or Brown. Liam Williams will go and is a 15
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    Historically, three FBs go. So Hogg, Halfpenny and one of Brown, Zebo, Payne I guess if fit. Kearney is crocked. I'd say Brown is third in line.

    They talk about having winning personalities within the wider squad. Don't think there's anyone more competitve. Reckon he'll be picked as a result.

    Let me know if I've missed anyone.
    What Muffin said basically - Liam Williams will go as a full-back. I also think Daly, who can obviously play fullback too, is more likely than Brown.

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    I think Gatland will think the same too as was evident when Hogg went on tour last time as 3rd choice 10
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    Halfpenny going has to be a joke. Are we going to see lots of Welsh players who arnt in form, haven't won anything and we're beaten by England and Ireland tour above talented English and Irish players.

    I hope not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    I think Gatland will think the same too as was evident when Hogg went on tour last time as 3rd choice 10
    Possibly. But I think gats will want to play Williams in the test team on the wing. I think he'll two out and out fullbacks in Hogg and brown. He has atleast 4 wing/FB hybrids in halfpenny, Williams , Watson and Nowell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    Possibly. But I think gats will want to play Williams in the test team on the wing. I think he'll two out and out fullbacks in Hogg and brown. He has atleast 4 wing/FB hybrids in halfpenny, Williams , Watson and Nowell.
    Yes but he can still cover 15. Halfpenny is nowhere near standard of international wing. Him and Hogg will be 15s. You'll see someone like a Daly who can fill in centre as well as wings. 1 wing who's primarily a wing but can cover 15 and wings.
    Also I know it doesn't count for alot but Zebo would also be used to playing 15 internationally and will probably play next 3 games there.
    But again I think
    Zebo
    Watson
    Williams
    Daly
    Nowell
    Maitland
    Halfpenny
    Hogg
    North

    These are in my eyes the really serious options for 7 spots maybe.
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    No Seymour? Arguably Maitland's ability to cover 15 as well puts him higher on the list, but Seymour's try-scoring record is a lot better at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPM View Post
    No Seymour? Arguably Maitland's ability to cover 15 as well puts him higher on the list, but Seymour's try-scoring record is a lot better at the moment.
    I don't think Seymour will go. No doints about his try scoring or ability. could be completely wrong. I also don't buy in to this Maitland can cover 15 so is higher. Almost every lad there can cover 15 with most covering to higher standard.
    Like I would be very interested to see does an uncapped dark horse go.
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    Seymour is our best winger by some distance. Mainland is solid, good in defence and could cover 15 but we need to be careful and not bring too many utility players. We need specialist wingers and Seymour is top class. Fantastic in the air, great finisher and decent kicker and in defence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint4805 View Post
    Seymour is our best winger by some distance. Mainland is solid, good in defence and could cover 15 but we need to be careful and not bring too many utility players. We need specialist wingers and Seymour is top class. Fantastic in the air, great finisher and decent kicker and in defence.
    As I said it just everyone see's it different. Like in Ireland I don't think anyone would rate him as highly but maybe we don't see him as much or its hard to show it in a team that was struggling internationally
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    Quote Originally Posted by munstermuffin View Post
    As I said it just everyone see's it different. Like in Ireland I don't think anyone would rate him as highly but maybe we don't see him as much or its hard to show it in a team that was struggling internationally
    I'm mainly basing the shout for Seymour on his Glasgow record in recent times but he's looked sharp for Scotland too. He made Swinson's try last week on his own.

    IMO, Hogg at 15 and Williams on one wing should be two of the back three. The other wing is the place up for grabs.

    North is living on past reputation and has been for some time. Physically he is the most gifted and arguably he is the most naturally talented, but form wise, it isn't there and hasn't been for some time.

    But for Watson's injuries, I think he would have been a shoo-in, but now he needs to find form fast and sustain it for Bath post-6N. He's likely to start against the Italians and I would back him to get straight back amongst the tries and keep his place for the Scotland and Ireland games.

    Beyond that, it's a free for all between Seymour, Daly, Nowell, Maitland and Zebo IMO. I suspect Halfpenny will go as cover for 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPM View Post
    I'm mainly basing the shout for Seymour on his Glasgow record in recent times but he's looked sharp for Scotland too. He made Swinson's try last week on his own.

    IMO, Hogg at 15 and Williams on one wing should be two of the back three. The other wing is the place up for grabs.

    North is living on past reputation and has been for some time. Physically he is the most gifted and arguably he is the most naturally talented, but form wise, it isn't there and hasn't been for some time.

    But for Watson's injuries, I think he would have been a shoo-in, but now he needs to find form fast and sustain it for Bath post-6N. He's likely to start against the Italians and I would back him to get straight back amongst the tries and keep his place for the Scotland and Ireland games.

    Beyond that, it's a free for all between Seymour, Daly, Nowell, Maitland and Zebo IMO. I suspect Halfpenny will go as cover for 15.
    But I'm basing it on people get to tour. After that it'll be guys earning it. Williams is flying it but again form is key. Peaking in March means nothing come June. The key is fetting on plane. As I said I wouldn't have Seymour in my squad. But again none of us will have exactly same squad
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    Fancy a bet on who will make the tour as a back 3 option. Brown vs Daly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinspoonboy1 View Post
    Fancy a bet on who will make the tour as a back 3 option. Brown vs Daly?
    What are the odds on neither?

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    I don't really see the need for Halfpenny. He adds less than most back 3s in general play but is an excellent kicker. So is Sexton, so is Farrell, so he's not so essential.

    At present for the backs in general i think Hogg, Murray, Sexton, Liam Williams, and Farrell have to go in my opinion, unless there is a severe drop in form or injury. Last year i would have backed Youngs to be pushing CM for the starting berth but he hasn't been great for England in the last 2 matches. There are a lot of very good players out of form at present e.g. Youngs, North so i think the fight for places is quite open. Few of the English backs have looked dominant enough to be an automatic pick, but they have the potential for several players to step up and make a claim. Similarly if Wales win their remaining matches and their backs do a bit more then several players could come through- there is lots to play for which is exciting.

    Some of the picks will depend on what style of play Gatland wants to use, e.g. of the England backs Teo would fit better with Warrenball than JJ (not to say either of them are favourites to get a spot on the plane), and i would wonder if he'd prefer a fly-half like Biggar or one like Ford if both were on form?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stormmaster1 View Post
    I don't really see the need for Halfpenny. He adds less than most back 3s in general play but is an excellent kicker. So is Sexton, so is Farrell, so he's not so essential.

    At present for the backs in general i think Hogg, Murray, Sexton, Liam Williams, and Farrell have to go in my opinion, unless there is a severe drop in form or injury. Last year i would have backed Youngs to be pushing CM for the starting berth but he hasn't been great for England in the last 2 matches. There are a lot of very good players out of form at present e.g. Youngs, North so i think the fight for places is quite open. Few of the English backs have looked dominant enough to be an automatic pick, but they have the potential for several players to step up and make a claim. Similarly if Wales win their remaining matches and their backs do a bit more then several players could come through- there is lots to play for which is exciting.

    Some of the picks will depend on what style of play Gatland wants to use, e.g. of the England backs Teo would fit better with Warrenball than JJ (not to say either of them are favourites to get a spot on the plane), and i would wonder if he'd prefer a fly-half like Biggar or one like Ford if both were on form?
    I agree with you on Halfpenny. I think he's went back again but Gatland will pick him. Farrell in my eyes is best goalkicker. Sexton on form is best 10.

    Your last point is 100% bang on. We can all argue x y and z is good. But it's how they're used is key. No point picking a guy like JJ at 13 to bash.
    Another key will be age profile of pack as if he goes for an older pack it would indicate a tempo slower.
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  19. #218
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    Surprised Jared Payne hasn't been mentioned much? Defensively very solid, beaten the AB's, and as a full back for Ulster and as seen for Ireland against South Africa, is a lethal attacking threat. Also has experienced of playing NZ rugby. Current injury is very unfortunate for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UlsterRugby2012 View Post
    Surprised Jared Payne hasn't been mentioned much? Defensively very solid, beaten the AB's, and as a full back for Ulster and as seen for Ireland against South Africa, is a lethal attacking threat. Also has experienced of playing NZ rugby. Current injury is very unfortunate for him.
    I think the issue you've mentioned is his injury. May well tour but needs to do alot to convince Gatland he's on form with so little opportunities. Agreed he'd be up there if he didn't getbsuch a bad injury at an unfortunate time.
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    same issue with someone like Kruis- injured and is vying for a spot in possibly the most competitive position for the Lions

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