A Political Thread pt. 2

[dirty harry]

I think they're saying that striking a "neutral" country is, in itself, wrong. It can't be justified.

I put neutral in "" as obviously the debate then becomes how do you define neutral.

I read it as intentionally ignoring context or reasoning, and just as 'isreal bad'.

When you have that view, there is no justification for these acts, or for them to even exist really

 

[Welsh Exile]

I read it as intentionally ignoring context or reasoning, and just as 'isreal bad'.

When you have that view, there is no justification for these acts, or for them to even exist really

It's like comparing October 7th to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising or the million other things people like to say without even a basic understanding of the history.

 

[dirty harry]

It's like comparing October 7th to the Warsaw uprising or the million other things people like to say without even a basic understanding of the history.

I honestly thought you were being a bit hyperbolic previously when you were linking Anti isreal comments with anti semitism, im always willing to give speech the broadest possible definition and benefit of the doubt, but im starting to think you just noticed the attitudes before I have starting to.

Im not accusing anyone specific, well 2 recent new (potentially not new) poster aside, but the attitude of Condemnation of isreal regardless of the situation is making lean towards your view

 

[McTallshort]

I remember @McTallshort on here ages ago making what I thought was a fair point in saying why haven't they taken out Hamas in Qatar. Not in a they should do this but rather to highlight the futility of what they're doing. As I say, not a bad point. Now Israel have actually done it the outrage is back.

Taking out the Hamas negotiation team isn't the same as taking out the leadership and you know that. Look do whatever mental gymnastics you need to do on this but the fact that this is the only thing you and your Welsh mate agree on should tell you something.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I honestly thought you were being a bit hyperbolic previously when you were linking Anti isreal comments with anti semitism, im always willing to give speech the broadest possible definition and benefit of the doubt, but im starting to think you just noticed the attitudes before I have starting to.

Im not accusing anyone specific, well 2 recent new (potentially not new) poster aside, but the attitude of Condemnation of isreal regardless of the situation is making lean towards your view

The other thing a think people don't understand, or maybe some do, when they use extreme anti Zionist language is that, pretty much half the population of the worlds Jews live in Israel and the other half are mostly in America and then a small amount scattered around other countries.

By default, ALL the Jews in Israel (and Arabs, Christians atheists etc etc) are Zionists and the vast, overwhelming majority of Jews in America have favourable views towards Zionism. So by all means say "zionists are disgusting, racist, horrible human beings on the planet" but just be aware you're probably talking about 90% of Jews there.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Taking out the Hamas negotiation team isn't the same as taking out the leadership and you know that. Look do whatever mental gymnastics you need to do on this but the fact that this is the only thing you and your Welsh mate agree on should tell you something.

Do you know who the targets were? Are you suggesting that you would not have senior Hamas officials in the negotiating team? Where do you think they get them from, off the steeet?

 

[AlRums]

I think I'll wait and see what the confirmation is. I may even go conspiracy brained and think Qatar were in on it if it turns out they killed all or most of their targets and not a single Qatari national died. But equally if it turns out they bombed the wrong place, killed no Hamas and killed a load of civilians then I'll probably agree with a lot of what you say.

Act of war? Possibly, again I'd wait for the confirmation but you could argue that harbouring the leaders of the enemy you are fighting is also an act of war. I don't remember, and I could be wrong as I was a kid at the time, anyone really complaining about invading Afghanistan when the Taliban refused to give up Al-Qaeda.

5 Hamas, not the leadership and one Qatari, an innocent

Just been confirmed on the BBC feed a posted earlier.

 

[McTallshort]

Do you know who the targets were? Are you suggesting that you would not have senior Hamas officials in the negotiating team? Where do you think they get them from, off the steeet?

BBC had reported it was the negotiation team

 

[Welsh Exile]

BBC had reported it was the negotiation team

Yes, and my point is, is it possible, probable even, that there are also senior Hamas officials in the negotiation team?

 

[AlRums]

From BBC

"Al-Hayya's son and member of Qatari security forces among six killed

As we've just reported, six people were killed in the Israeli strike on Doha, but Hamas claims its negotiating team survived.

Hamas says among those killed was the son of the group's key negotiator, Khalil al-Hayya. It lists their names as:

Humam Al-Hayya (Abu Yahya) - al-Hayya's son
Jihad Labad (Abu Bilal) - director of al-Hayya's office
Abdullah Abdul Wahid (Abu Khalil)
Moamen Hassouna (Abu Omar)
Ahmed Al-Mamluk (Abu Malik)​

The sixth person killed, it says, was a member of Qatar's internal security forces, Corporal Badr Saad Mohammed Al-Humaidi"

Apparently they were part of the negotiation team, but bit top negotiater.

Hamas says leaders survive, six others killed in Israeli attack on Doha

International condemnation of Israel’s attack on residential area of Qatari capital mounts.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Saintjay]

You don't have to know how many have been killed after the event.

You should be thinking about it before you plan an operation. If you target a building right next to a petrol station, which this one is, you need to think about collateral damage to neighbouring areas.

Were there Qatarian staff within the buildings?
Delivery persons approaching/leaving?
Innocent's driving past or nearby?
Qatar officials meeting the negotiation team?

This shows indiscriminate actions which have endangered others.

By the way are negotiation teams offering deals a legitimate target?

If not, would strumpet have been right to shoot Putin in Alaska, or authorise an air/missile strike on the Kremlin?

Which ever way you look at it, it's an act of war

If they are Hamas are they still classed as terrorists though? My understanding is Hamas saying all negotiations team, Israel some were.

Those named are via Hamas, who i trust as much as Israel with factual information..

 

[McTallshort]

Yes, and my point is, is it possible, probable even, that there are also senior Hamas officials in the negotiation team?

Well yes of course there would be senior decision makers but that doesn't change what Israel have done in another sovereign nation. You use whatever justification you can I'm sure Harry will agree with you.

 

[dirty harry]

Well yes of course there would be senior decision makers but that doesn't change what Israel have done in another sovereign nation. You use whatever justification you can I'm sure Harry will agree with you.

Im not sure why you constantly need to keep bringing me into your comments your allowed to make comments without my name lol...

If your anti Jewish people, just say so im free speech I'll fight for your right to say so hahaha

99% of the world's Jews are zionists i reckon, and a lot of non Jews are zionists also its starting so sound like a code word...

 

[McTallshort]

Im not sure why you constantly need to keep bringing me into your comments your allowed to make comments without my name lol...

If your anti Jewish people, just say so im free speech I'll fight for your right to say so hahaha

99% of the world's Jews are zionists i reckon, and a lot of non Jews are zionists also its starting so sound like a code word...

Yeah yeah harry saying people are anti Jewish people is like saying everything is far right...

 

[AlRums]

If they are Hamas are they still classed as terrorists though? My understanding is Hamas saying all negotiations team, Israel some were.

My point was, not who were targeted being illegitimate targets. Rather that Israel launched a strike into a neutral country with no thought as to the innocent lives in the vicinity.

Do you really think Israel will compensate the family of the dead Qatari? Can they bring him back?

As I said earlier, if a hit squad went in and eliminated their target unnecessary deaths would have been avoided.

Now Israel have Qatari blood on their hands.

 

[AlRums]

Do you know who the targets were? Are you suggesting that you would not have senior Hamas officials in the negotiating team? Where do you think they get them from, off the steeet?

Taking out the negotiation team just demonstrates no desire to negotiate and a complete no desire for peace

 

[Welsh Exile]

Well yes of course there would be senior decision makers but that doesn't change what Israel have done in another sovereign nation. You use whatever justification you can I'm sure Harry will agree with you.

So you think you can never justify striking a sovereign nation? It’s wrong in itself?

 

[Saintjay]

Surely the Hamas people would have been aware of the Tel Aviv attack and how this would impact negotiations. The same as Israel and there actions.

Neither want peace by the looks of it.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Taking out the negotiation team just demonstrates no desire to negotiate and a complete no desire for peace

I agree and I’ve already said as much. That goes both ways though, doesn’t it.

 

[Saintjay]

Taking out the negotiation team just demonstrates no desire to negotiate and a complete no desire for peace

And Hamas killing 6 jews in Tel Aviv yesterday. Doesn't scream peace either tbh