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Your not going to understand how insensitive and transphobic this thought process is, it certainly highlights a lack of experience with the issue of trans and vulnerable people.

Trans people have their own thoughts and feelings, they are individuals, they are not a homogenous group with a political hive mind. Most of them have larger issues going on to worry about Trump, and this will blow your mind, some are fans!

But lets be specific, do you believe Kiwiwomble has a legitimacy in fearing mobs of people looking for rainbow lanyards to be violent toward? Infact, lets widen it, does a MAGA fans have legitimate fear of being shot for wearing a red lanyard?
I don't think your in any position to lecture on being insensitive in this.

This is about a forum member raising a concern for there safety. Your option on how rationale it is doesn't matter and mocking them isnt the answer

So yes it raises concerns about how on a professional basis you'd deal with a similar concern raised by a vulnerable person.
 
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**** me I regret daring to post

Literally just saying I feel this lunatic has made thing worse, pointing out this is a horrible thing, comment it's occurred to me violence begets violence and what negative ramifications we might see because the person has done this horrible act…and even those thoughts get critiqued and attacked….thought that was all pretty safe ground for the average person to agree on

Mate, who has attacked you?

You didnt make the point that this shooting doesnt help social cohesion at all, thats what everyone has said, you stated very specifically you felt you would be a victim of violence from the 'oppressor group' if you wore a rainbow lanyard.

You've victimised yourself based on a world view that doesnt exist, even now your trying to portray me as an attacker, for laughing at a silly comment.

But you know what, im sorry ive been so patronising, let me be more empathetic and ask a few questions...

Who are these oppressors in Australia?
 
Your not going to understand how insensitive and transphobic this thought process is, it certainly highlights a lack of experience with the issue of trans and vulnerable people.

Trans people have their own thoughts and feelings, they are individuals, they are not a homogenous group with a political hive mind. Most of them have larger issues going on to worry about Trump, and this will blow your mind, some are fans!

But lets be specific, do you believe Kiwiwomble has a legitimacy in fearing mobs of people looking for rainbow lanyards to be violent toward? Infact, lets widen it, does a MAGA fans have legitimate fear of being shot for wearing a red lanyard?
But to be clear, you were happy to dismiss feelings from the other side of the world because tour friends werent worried as if they spoke for everyone?

To clarify, I sit on the pride committee for a large multi national cooperation and in my experience…some people in the community ARE worried about the few extremists out there being empowered to take revenge

Doesn't take away from your experience…as you say everyone has their own thoughts

Mate, who has attacked you?

You didnt make the point that this shooting doesnt help social cohesion at all, thats what everyone has said, you stated very specifically you felt you would be a victim of violence from the 'oppressor group' if you wore a rainbow lanyard.

You've victimised yourself based on a world view that doesnt exist, even now your trying to portray me as an attacker, for laughing at a silly comment.

But you know what, im sorry ive been so patronising, let me be more empathetic and ask a few questions...

Who are these oppressors in Australia?
You’ve created this straw man, I didn’t say anything about “oppressor group”…that’s all you

I specifically mentioned there has been an increase in violent far right (self proclaimed neo nazis) on the street in Aussie talking about “fighting back” against anything that might be now considered woke or none conservative
 
Next time your trans friends raise a concern for there safety. I trust you'll laugh at them and call them unhinged

I'm starting to question how you are allowed near vulnerable people. I've seen safe guarding concerns raised for less
This is the thing about Harry. He's all "we need to be inclusive and listen to all points of view etc etc" but when someone says something he disagrees with or he finds silly he just takes the **** and mocks them. It's not the sort of behaviour you would hope for in someone who apparently works with venerable people and makes him look like a bit of a twat
 
It's not all him but, in my humble opinion, Trump was the one who changed the game.

Like you I lament the times when people could debate and shake hands but who do you think enabled that complete change? Was it Obama? Biden? Or the guy who came in and tore up the rule book, had a demeaning nickname for all of his opponents and reacted badly to any kind of criticisim? I think I know which guy I would suggest.

As I say, I think is lot of the bad stuff we've seen from the other side has been in response to Trump. I mean, even by your own admission Trump does these inflammatory things precisely to get a reaction from Dems that they, as you say, keep gladly obliging Trump on. Whose fault is that? Who's strategy, by your own admission, is to create annamosity on both sides and stoke division?

I think we agree 99% here...

Trump did change the game, he spurned Democrats, and then spent an entire election cycle naively navigating being called racist, sexist, and homophobic by a lot of people he was friends with, some who handed him awards and praised him for his work with minorities. I think Democrats became vengeful of him, and he in turn became vengeful of them.

I have never seen a reaction from an establishment machine like we saw in 2016 election cycle, every single element of politics, media, celebrity, and creator went after every single element of him. At every step he was mocked, ridiculed and had every shitty thing he ever did used in public to destroy him, I remember arguing with a very lefty friend, who I believed we aligned on most issues, and I said if they were that aggressive from the off, they feared something! He literally called me a nazi a few days later because I didnt agree Trump was a nazi lol.

Where I think we differ, is that i think Trump is original, in his distasteful actions, name calling, memes, behaviours etc, and now in his 2nd term his no holds barred actions, but democrat reaction to him has absolutely bolstered his political career.

The Russian hooker urine stories, the spying on his campaign, their behaviour to Sanders, and promoting Clinton, and their strategy to destroy Trump by any means necesary has created a toxic culture, I honestly dont think Trump wins 2016 against a thoughtful logical Sanders. I think their strategy in 2020 of hiding Biden in the basement was cracking, let Trump hang himself, let those in the middle who decide the president see him for what he is, why in God's name they installed Harris, instead of allowing a primary, where basically anyone beats Trump 2024 ill never know.

Trump is our problem because of democrat hysteria and will to destroy, they arent left, they arent liberal, they are just anti Trump since 2016s humiliation, and its why I have some respect for Sanders and AOC who are at least offering a pathway, I mean its not going to win anything, but they show principles in their stance (even if they are anti Trump too).

My major concern is a Trump legacy, and a generation of conservative rule, that spills into UK politics with the likes of Farage, and lets be honest we are witnessing it, which is far more likely than any of the hysteria about authoritarianism, or Naziism.
 
I think we agree 99% here...

Trump did change the game, he spurned Democrats, and then spent an entire election cycle naively navigating being called racist, sexist, and homophobic by a lot of people he was friends with, some who handed him awards and praised him for his work with minorities. I think Democrats became vengeful of him, and he in turn became vengeful of them.

I have never seen a reaction from an establishment machine like we saw in 2016 election cycle, every single element of politics, media, celebrity, and creator went after every single element of him. At every step he was mocked, ridiculed and had every shitty thing he ever did used in public to destroy him, I remember arguing with a very lefty friend, who I believed we aligned on most issues, and I said if they were that aggressive from the off, they feared something! He literally called me a nazi a few days later because I didnt agree Trump was a nazi lol.

Where I think we differ, is that i think Trump is original, in his distasteful actions, name calling, memes, behaviours etc, and now in his 2nd term his no holds barred actions, but democrat reaction to him has absolutely bolstered his political career.

The Russian hooker urine stories, the spying on his campaign, their behaviour to Sanders, and promoting Clinton, and their strategy to destroy Trump by any means necesary has created a toxic culture, I honestly dont think Trump wins 2016 against a thoughtful logical Sanders. I think their strategy in 2020 of hiding Biden in the basement was cracking, let Trump hang himself, let those in the middle who decide the president see him for what he is, why in God's name they installed Harris, instead of allowing a primary, where basically anyone beats Trump 2024 ill never know.

Trump is our problem because of democrat hysteria and will to destroy, they arent left, they arent liberal, they are just anti Trump since 2016s humiliation, and its why I have some respect for Sanders and AOC who are at least offering a pathway, I mean its not going to win anything, but they show principles in their stance (even if they are anti Trump too).

My major concern is a Trump legacy, and a generation of conservative rule, that spills into UK politics with the likes of Farage, and lets be honest we are witnessing it, which is far more likely than any of the hysteria about authoritarianism, or Naziism.
There's a lot there I agree with and some I don't but don't have time to respond to it all.

I'm very sceptical whether America would've ever voted in Sanders to be honest. You forget, that while I agree there was certainly a strong push back against Trump in 2016, had Sanders been his running mate there would've also been very powerful and influential lobbyists and groups who would've done everything they could to stop the first self proclaimed socialist (actually is he even self proclaimed? I'm honestly not sure but let's say he is) President of the United States. We'll never know how that would've played out, though.

I agree with your final point. We are seeing it and it was always inevitable in my opinion hence why I also think that this Kirk stuff will have significant repercussions, I'm not 100% convinced of that, though. Could just all blow over in a few weeks (once they've caught/killed the assassin.
 
But to be clear, you were happy to dismiss feelings from the other side of the world because tour friends werent worried as if they spoke for everyone?

To clarify, I sit on the pride committee for a large multi national cooperation and in my experience…some people in the community ARE worried about the few extremists out there being empowered to take revenge

Doesn't take away from your experience…as you say everyone has their own thoughts


You've created this straw man, I didn't say anything about "oppressor group"…that's all you

I specifically mentioned there has been an increase in violent far right (self proclaimed neo nazis) on the street in Aussie talking about "fighting back" against anything that might be now considered woke or none conservative

You know what you are right, it was Whych Tyler's comment in which the context of the discussion was around, and i atrributed it to you directly, so i apologise for that element:

I think it's more important than ever to be a visible ally to the oppressed.
Especially if you're from the demographic favoured by the oppressors.


But my point isnt a strawman, your fearing a caricatures of what you think are thousands of neo nazis (are we talking about the recent protests that had what a 20 to 30 NSN members at), and extreme versions of right leaning people in the same way. The paranoia you have about being cornered for wearing a rainbow lanyard isnt rational, the same way im not attacking you.

I genuinely think, and these plums on this thread will attest, bexause ive been banging on about it for months, that you've been conditioned into dehumanising those you deem as opposition, and feel they dehumanise you the same way, based on an extremist minority of the content you consume. Your fear can easily be quelled with some deep breathes, and getting some experience with very good people who hold right leaning, or even pro Trump views.

If you had entered into my thought experiment youd have understood, there are Trump supporters, and right leaning people who feel the same irrational and radicalised views as you right now, and they are as manipulated into this polarisation, as a lot of people.

The sad part is this crumbling of social cohesion seems to be merely a strategy to win votes / make money by any means necesary, and part of me thinks capitalism is part of the problem.
 


This seems to be doing the rounds, odd clip. Why would anyone propose a minute of silence in this forum, but how good does it look to deny a moment of silence?
 


This seems to be doing the rounds, odd clip. Why would anyone propose a minute of silence in this forum, but how good does it look to deny a moment of silence?

Sounded like a stunt to me. She said/implied that it had not been discussed so kinda sounds like a procedural issue but as you say, it doesn't look good which is what I think the main purpose of that clip/stunt was.

EDIT, my bad, should’ve watched it twice. It was denied. Still kind of a stunt as why do something you know has been denied.
 
Sounded like a stunt to me. She said/implied that it had not been discussed so kinda sounds like a procedural issue but as you say, it doesn't look good which is what I think the main purpose of that clip/stunt was.

Thats a very valid point, I thought she said it had been discussed and the president said no though. Seems like its was proposed previously.

Either way, politicians man!
 
Doesn't mean its not a stunt though does it, why would they think it was an appropriate setting, they knew it would be refused, and now european parties on the right have the clip.

Wait for Farage to show it!
Yeah that’s what I said on my edit. Why do something you’ve already asked for and it’s been denied unless it’s a stunt.
 
Yeah that's what I said on my edit. Why do something you've already asked for and it's been denied unless it's a stunt.
Definitely a stunt and whilst the overarching representation of what Kirk's assassination represents, he isn't the first political assassination even this year and, let's be blunt, wasn't exactly noteworthy for his good deeds. He was an intentionally divisive individual who went out of his way to have conflicts. It hardly merits a moment of silence in the EU parliament.
 

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