England 2025/26

[Saintjay]

Its not just the modern game...its happened through the years...

Simple examples
Tana Umaga - Winger who became a centre
Tim Horan - 10, 12, Wing
Ma'a Nonu - Centre / Wing
Heally / Catt played all over the back line
Adam Ashley Cooper - Played all over the back line
Matt Giteau - Played 9/10/12
Shane Williams - Scrum half to wing

Theres a BIG list of players who have covered numerous positions

Ill even throw JPR Williams in there...Full back and Flanker

Probably a big list of those that were meh at it as well.

 

[Geordie]

Probably a big list of those that were meh at it as well.

Absolutely.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm continually baffled by the love-in for Fraiser "glue player" Dingwall that we're all curently enduring; where being slow and zero carry threat is somehow a virtue because he can chuck a nice pass (when they're not being intercepted). Max Ojomoh can do everything Dingwall can but defenders can't afford to just sit off him because he actually poses a threat with ball in hand, and can also bang in defence too for that matter.

If they're playing an extra playmaker against Fiji with M.Smith at FB you might as well try Lawrence 12 and Freeman 13. If they look good, England might just have solved a big problem.

Dingwall is quite fast actually, but not that it matters playing in the 12 shirt. He also hits hard in defence. I’d much rather have Max but not Lawrence (as he’s our best 13) and Atkinson is injured.

 

[Blueblackandwhite]

So a fly half at 15, a wing a 13 and a 13 at 12? That doesn't feel like the solution to any problem.

Not sure there's a 'love-in' for Dingwall TBH? He's not drawing too much heat for an underwhelming performance and an unfortunate intercept but there's been no praise either.

I appreciate his qualities - he usually makes intelligent, unselfish decisions that create space for others. However, it's a huge shame that Atkinson isn't fit to cement his place at 12. I'd have liked to have seen the Ojomoh/Lawrence combo as well but I don't dislike Dingwall as an

He was certainly heralded after the Wales game and on the back of Northampton's run in Europe as being the unseen hand that made everything tick around him. It's interesting to me that a player's obvious flaws are treated as some kind of virtue. I

Agree that it's a real shame about Atkinson, watching a proper running threat who can distribute at 12 was like a breath of fresh air!

Dingwall is quite fast actually, but not that it matters playing in the 12 shirt. He also hits hard in defence. I'd much rather have Max but not Lawrence (as he's our best 13) and Atkinson is injured.

If pace is irrelevant for 12s and Dingwall is quick and a hard hitting defender then why do you prefer Ojomoh? Even with just normal put them to ground sort of takles Dingwall missed a terrible one against Italy away on his debut resulting in a try, and a couple more when we played them at home. Very good club player but I just think you need more if you want to be a top international. I'd rather try Lawrence at 12 if that's the only alternative, if he and Freeman can work together (against conventional wisdom) then we've potentially solved a major problem - you'd probably need a footballing fullback with them though...

 

[BPM]

What are the ‘obvious flaws’?

I don’t regard Dingwall as a ‘top international’ but I think he is a solid all rounder. Arguably, his ‘flaw’ is that he doesn’t have a stand out attribute.

As I said earlier, his strength (IMO) is making good decisions under pressure. That doesn’t look good on the way the stats are usually measured but it’s an underrated skill. Atkinson has the same strength, but carries better.

 

[Geordie]

Just did a quick look at the physical stats.

I had no idea Dingwall was 6'2. The same as Seb Atkinson. But Atkinson is listed as 15 and a half stone whereas Dingwall is only 14 and a half.

That stone could make the difference and at 23 Atkinson could still put a bit on..maybe up yo 16 stone.

 

[Scotty]

What are the 'obvious flaws'?

I don't regard Dingwall as a 'top international' but I think he is a solid all rounder. Arguably, his 'flaw' is that he doesn't have a stand out attribute.

As I said earlier, his strength (IMO) is making good decisions under pressure. That doesn't look good on the way the stats are usually measured but it's an underrated skill. Atkinson has the same strength, but carries better.

Dingwall is a tough one, he is good. That 7/10 player every game which is great sometimes you need that, playmaker, quick and good distributer. That stability can be the 'glue' that can hold a backline together.

But Ojomoh is faster(I think) and a better attacking player. Not seen glaring weaknesses in his defence and an eye for an interception. And good playmaking skills. So I think it will end up between Atkinson and Ojomoh.

Good to have 3 good options.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Agree that it's a real shame about Atkinson, watching a proper running threat who can distribute at 12 was like a breath of fresh air!

If pace is irrelevant for 12s and Dingwall is quick and a hard hitting defender then why do you prefer Ojomoh? Even with just normal put them to ground sort of takles Dingwall missed a terrible one against Italy away on his debut resulting in a try, and a couple more when we played them at home. Very good club player but I just think you need more if you want to be a top international. I'd rather try Lawrence at 12 if that's the only alternative, if he and Freeman can work together (against conventional wisdom) then we've potentially solved a major problem - you'd probably need a footballing fullback with them though...

I prefer Max’s passing and kicking game which makes him a more rounded player in total. But that’s my opinion and I’d still have Seb as first choice.

I think it’s harsh using his game against Italy where the England defence as a whole was terrible and the system made everyone look bad. He’s a very good defender.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What are the 'obvious flaws'?

I don't regard Dingwall as a 'top international' but I think he is a solid all rounder. Arguably, his 'flaw' is that he doesn't have a stand out attribute.

As I said earlier, his strength (IMO) is making good decisions under pressure. That doesn't look good on the way the stats are usually measured but it's an underrated skill. Atkinson has the same strength, but carries better.

Not bothered by stats. Doing the right thing at the right time is way more important.

Understated players are fine, but they have to make the whole function better. Kruis was one example as was the most heralded unheralded player ever, Richard Hill.

I guess the real measure of players is whether the team is worse without them. To my mind that jury is out on Dingwall. Personally I doubt he’s the long term answer and am pretty sure he can’t be unless paired with F Smith. But at least he’s a 12 and I don’t mind him being given a chance.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

My thing with Dingwall is Kelly looked a far more complete version and yet never got the time of day from Borthwick

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

My thing with Dingwall is Kelly looked a far more complete version and yet never got the time of day from Borthwick

To be fair, for the best part of a decade no 12s have really had a chance since 12trees. I don't know what it is about English rugby, I can't think of any other country that has so consistently not filled a position with players who play that position at club level.
It's like successive England coaches feel the 12 role shouldn't exist.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

To be fair, for the best part of a decade no 12s have really had a chance since 12trees. I don't know what it is about English rugby, I can't think of any other country that has so consistently not filled a position with players who play that position at club level.
It's like successive England coaches feel the 12 role shouldn't exist.

I would agree with this. I would say England haven't had a top class inside centre since Will Greenwood. What is it about that position that England just don't produce players? Its it because the position requires a degree of physicality but also handling skills and England dont have those alround skills.

 

[stus768]

Tbf a lot of countries fill that role with players of pacific island heritage. It’s an unusual set of skills and physical attributes and feels like a lot of players with similar attributes get pushed towards forwards roles in the uk

 

[higgik]

Tbf a lot of countries fill that role with players of pacific island heritage. It's an unusual set of skills and physical attributes and feels like a lot of players with similar attributes get pushed towards forwards roles in the uk

Especially back row, where handling and power are key skill sets.
Actually the only differences could be the kicking game and wider vision.
Hence why SB is working with Back Row to hone kicking skills, so they can develop into better hybrid players.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Ford expected to start next week according to TNT commentators. And possibly Steward will come back.

 

[Saintjay]

Isn't Daly meant to be fit by next week. I might have dreamt this.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Isn't Daly meant to be fit by next week. I might have dreamt this.

He is. TNT’s commentators obviously forgot about him or know more than we do.

 

[Which Tyler]

Ford expected to start next week according to TNT commentators. And possibly Steward will come back.

Pretty sure that's not what was said, but what Austin would pick.
Absolutely no hint of an inside line, but a personal opinion / expectation

 

[TommiG88]

Pretty sure that's not what was said, but what Austin would pick.
Absolutely no hint of an inside line, but a personal opinion / expectation

I’ve come to the conclusion that Mike is a bit of a sheep. Someone’s opinion is instantly deemed a fact

 

[NickBD]

That win and Aussie loss guarantees top 6 rankings doesn't it?