16 man Ospreys v Leicester incident

[charlieJ]

Hello all
I have just joined the Forum today, so this is my first post.

I would be interested to hear your views and opinions as to what you feel is a just and fair outcome for both teams.
Is the Leicester request to reply the game realistic?

Charlie

 

[Sir Speedy]

Wait, they requested to replay the game? :lol:

How about Cardiff replay the fixture against Sale at Edgeley Park aswell, if we're discussing unjust decisions, or as a matter of fact, any game ever played, since there's surely a wrong decision by a referee in every game?

 

[Olyy]

I'm don't really know the normal protocol for this kind of situation, but i don't think a rematch is the right idea,
Leicester have a right to be upset because potentially a try could've been scored (though i dont think so, as he had an osprey, basically, on each shoulder who would've tackled him), but a replay isn't right imo. Maybe if Byrne had been on for like 5minutes of something, but he was only on for 40seconds
Maybe a fine? Points reduction? I'm not sure, the chances are nothing will come of it

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (charlieJ @ Jan 26 2010, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hello all
I have just joined the Forum today, so this is my first post.

I would be interested to hear your views and opinions as to what you feel is a just and fair outcome for both teams.
Is the Leicester request to reply the game realistic?

Charlie[/b]

Richard Cockerill (one of the most decent and honest blokes in rugby) said that it was irrelevant to the game, and didn't affect a game the Ospreys deserved to win. I agree with him.

At the same time, the Ospreys' cock-up broke a pretty important law of the game. For this, they should recieve a fine. But the result should stay the same.

and welcome btw

 

[Bullitt]

Delicious irony whenever Leicester accuse anyone of cheating.

Even more juicy when they actually are hard done by because of cheating.

 

[charlieJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Jan 26 2010, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Wait, they requested to replay the game? :lol:

How about Cardiff replay the fixture against Sale at Edgeley Park aswell, if we're discussing unjust decisions, or as a matter of fact, any game ever played, since there's surely a wrong decision by a referee in every game?[/b]

I am not suggesting anything regarding unjust decisions, or advocating a replay. How much if any of an advantage was gained by the Ospreys during the short period in question? Might a token fine be just?

There must be some Leicester fans in the Forum that have an opinion.

 

[charlieJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 26 2010, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (charlieJ @ Jan 26 2010, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello all
I have just joined the Forum today, so this is my first post.

I would be interested to hear your views and opinions as to what you feel is a just and fair outcome for both teams.
Is the Leicester request to reply the game realistic?

Charlie[/b]

Richard Cockerill (one of the most decent and honest blokes in rugby) said that it was irrelevant to the game, and didn't affect a game the Ospreys deserved to win. I agree with him.

At the same time, the Ospreys' cock-up broke a pretty important law of the game. For this, they should recieve a fine. But the result should stay the same.

and welcome btw
[/b][/quote]

A fine does seem fair leaving the result to stand.
Thank you for the welcome

 

[elgringoborracho]

On french newspapers they say that the Ospreys face an exclusion of the H-Cup. And Peter Wheeler says that Lee Byrne (the "sixteenth" player on the field) was involved in an action preventing Ben Youngs to possibly score a try.
Although I think the Ospreys should stay in the competition, as it simply was the best team on that day, i have come to fear the decisions of the ERC (being a Paris fan and all).
So hopefully they don't do anything stupid :toss:

Bonus smiley : the banana knight, I didn't know it and it's awesome : :banswor:

 

[dullonien]

They won't be thrown out of the HC! That's obviously just French newspapers making a bigger story out of it than it was. It was a mistake by one of the backroom staff at the Ospreys, not some ploy to prevent a try. They will be handed a fine, nothing more, and nore should it.

 

[munster]

If leicester think that was bad maybe they should take a look at the HC final in 2002...

Apologies for bringing that up but I cant stand Leicester claiming to be cheated against...

 

[elgringoborracho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Jan 26 2010, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

They won't be thrown out of the HC! That's obviously just French newspapers making a bigger story out of it than it was. It was a mistake by one of the backroom staff at the Ospreys, not some ploy to prevent a try. They will be handed a fine, nothing more, and nore should it.[/b]

Well I hope so. Even more so as the team that would benefit from that exclusion is english. Just kidding my rosbif friends.

Nothing to do with that but in what situation would someone need the banana knight smiley? I mean it's really useful on a thread about medieval fruit wars but apart from that I don't see many cases where someone would express a particular feeling thanks to it.

 

[MunsterMan]

I think we should replay the HEC final from 2002 next week, same exact match day squads too. Would be great entertainment.

 

[stormmaster1]

I didn't see the whole match, but it sounds like the better team won (similar to HC final 2002 MunsterMachine).
Ospreys had 16 players long enough for Byrne to be involved in successfully defending a promising tigers attack which could have (but more than likely would not have) resulted in a try. Head coach say it didn't affect result, board staff (wheeler) are annoyed and making a little more of it. His point of view is pretty irrelevant.

From my point of view:
The ref handled it incorrectly as i believe the laws state a penalty against the infringing side should have been awarded. If Tigers had got 3 points, could they have scored again? Can't blame the ref for getting it wrong too much though- how often does this situation arise?
No suggestion of cheating, nothing to suggest anything other than an honest mistake.
That said it needs to be investigated as it's the sort of mistake which shouldn't happen at this level.

Ospreys probably need to accept some blame and punishment, but i don't know what it will be. options include
1. ban from the game completely forever. probably the safest and fairest option B)
2. Fine. previous form for this: england in 2003 WC, but player didn't get involved in the play iirc.
3. suspension from HC, this season or next season. a bit harsh.
4. dock them some points. this would equate to being thrown out of this years competition. i think this would be more fair in a league setting (e.g. Magner's) rather than costing them a qf spot.

So they'll get a slap on the wrist and a fine. Especially when you consider the QFs and SFs have already beend drawn.
hopefully a system will then be put in place to avoid this happening again.
Good luck to Ospreys, i hope you lose valiantly in the final to Clermont

 

[stormmaster1]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jan 27 2010, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think we should replay the HEC final from 2002 next week, same exact match day squads too. Would be great entertainment.[/b]

healey's too busy embarrasing himself in skintight clothing jumping through walls on national tv. so nevermind

 

[dullonien]

Completely agree with your assesment there stormmaster1.

It's a mistake that should not slip through the net at this level. I heard the Ospreys lady arguing to the ref (when he went over to give her a bollocking) that she had gone through the 4th official, however this was probably her trying to pass on the blame. This kinda thing shouldn't be down to the ref (or opposition) to keep track of. It's poor from the Ospreys backroom staff (there are lots of them on the touchline afterall) that they didn't notice Sonny hadn't come off the field.

The fact that this isn't the first time (England 2003), means this needs to be looked into to put measures in place so that it doesn't happen again. But to be honest, every team should be able to handle that simplest of tasks themselves, fools!

 

[Bullitt]

Here's an idea... Put a cage around the pitch!

No really, then there's only one way on and one way off.


Or maybe a picket fence?

 

[GJ#1]

The last time this happened was funnily enough against the Ospreys, in last years HEC Group match against Treviso.

Same cock up, but by Treviso.

Result ... nothing ... no fine, no ban nothing.

All I see happening is a slap on the wrist and a fine!

 

[charlieJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormmaster1 @ Jan 26 2010, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I didn't see the whole match, but it sounds like the better team won (similar to HC final 2002 MunsterMachine).
Ospreys had 16 players long enough for Byrne to be involved in successfully defending a promising tigers attack which could have (but more than likely would not have) resulted in a try. Head coach say it didn't affect result, board staff (wheeler) are annoyed and making a little more of it. His point of view is pretty irrelevant.

From my point of view:
The ref handled it incorrectly as i believe the laws state a penalty against the infringing side should have been awarded. If Tigers had got 3 points, could they have scored again? Can't blame the ref for getting it wrong too much though- how often does this situation arise?
No suggestion of cheating, nothing to suggest anything other than an honest mistake.
That said it needs to be investigated as it's the sort of mistake which shouldn't happen at this level.

Ospreys probably need to accept some blame and punishment, but i don't know what it will be. options include
1. ban from the game completely forever. probably the safest and fairest option B)
2. Fine. previous form for this: england in 2003 WC, but player didn't get involved in the play iirc.
3. suspension from HC, this season or next season. a bit harsh.
4. dock them some points. this would equate to being thrown out of this years competition. i think this would be more fair in a league setting (e.g. Magner's) rather than costing them a qf spot.

So they'll get a slap on the wrist and a fine. Especially when you consider the QFs and SFs have already beend drawn.
hopefully a system will then be put in place to avoid this happening again.
Good luck to Ospreys, i hope you lose valiantly in the final to Clermont[/b]

Excellent assessment, what you say makes good sense. Personally l feel little was gained but mistakes were made that shouldn't have been in a game played at this level. A fine seems fair along with a review of the system in an attempt to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

Moving rugby forward by improving standards all round by working at eliminating seemingly basic errors can only be, imo for the good for the sport. Players coming on and going off the field of play is not a rare occurrence these days.

Thanks for excelent reply btw.

 

[Nickdnz]

Little if no advantage was gained by Osprays having 16 men on the field. The time period the player that 16 players were on the field was minimal. Small fine would easily compensate.

 

[erwanseb]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Jan 27 2010, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Wait, they requested to replay the game? :lol:

How about Cardiff replay the fixture against Sale at Edgeley Park aswell, if we're discussing unjust decisions, or as a matter of fact, any game ever played, since there's surely a wrong decision by a referee in every game?[/b]

There are a few issues and questions there:
1. Is it a wrong decision by the referee or by the Ospreys. ?
2. Was the referee deliberately misled by the Ospreys who claimed Leicester had 16 men too on the pitch?
3. Did Leicester have effetively 16 men on the pitch too ?
4. Why no penalty was awarded to Leicester when the mistake was discovered ?
5. Did the mistake have a significant impact on the final result ?

The answer to these four questions will determine the outcome, based on my review of the game and various opinions and articles, my answer would be:
1. The Ospreys
2. Yes
3. No
4. I do not know
5. No, there was addtional cover so I do not believ a try would have been scored but a penalty kick should have been awarded, kickable ??

Based on 1 and 2, I believe that either a replay or a Leicester win may come out of it.

Now, things are pretty simple here because the result of Leicester vs Ospreys does not have any bearings on who is the best runner up and in which order. It is either Leicester or Osprey.

Now imagine that the outcome of this game could change who the best runner up is, ie a Leicester win could trigger the qualification of the best runner up from amother group. In this case, things would really go out of hand.