[2014 EOYT] England vs South Africa

[Peat]

None of the long term injured will be back for next week.

I think South Africa are the better team if both teams hit their potential but I also think South Africa are the most likely to radically underperform.

 

[glawsfan]

If England are to win this game the kicking needs to be a lot better and perhaps better decision making on when to kick. Some of Care's kicking was awful and I thought he was very poor on Saturday. Luckily for him there's no one really pushing for his spot. Again we also need to get our wingers more involved i think May only had the ball once on Saturday and look what he did get him and Rocko in the 13 channel and get them involved. Also do other people see Farrell as the issue as to why we don't score many tries from open play and that the wingers rarely see the ball? I would love to see Ford start and see if what he does for Bath he can do on the international stage.

 

[goodNumber10]

Daily Fail are reporting that Farrell could play 12 with Ford at 10.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Daily Fail are reporting that Farrell could play 12 with Ford at 10.

Noooooooooooooooooooo!

Our continued hard on for playing players out of position!

I have for a while thought that Lancaster doesn't really know how to pick a decent team.

I still don't think we have improved in the last 3 years at all, maybe it's just Tuesday morning blues but ffs

 

[Peat]

In fairness Farrell's racked up some serious time at 12. More than Henshaw had when Schmidt stuck him in for Ireland.

That might be the only thing I'll say in favour of it.

 

[Patchey]

You know, cynic that I am, the moment that I saw him shifting there during the game I thought 'someone is going to push for this'.

I mean, it wouldn't be the worst thing, but it would be fairly terrible.

That being said, Lancaster stated yesterday that he wouldn't make 'wholesale' changes. Going on past experience I think that'll mean no changes to the starting XV but for injuries and maybe one or two bench changes. While I think most of us would like to see something a little more radical, at least that hints that there won't be a change of 10-12 axis...

 

[j-dawg]

Morgan for Billy, Attwood and Lawes to start again for Lock - hopefully someone has told Lawes it is unacceptable to fall off tackles like he did. Same backline, but with George Ford coming on with 20 to go.

Don't think this Saffa side is the best I've seen, not by a long way, but they are very good. Duane is my pick for IRB player of the year.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Morgan for Billy, Attwood and Lawes to start again for Lock - hopefully someone has told Lawes it is unacceptable to fall off tackles like he did. Same backline, but with George Ford coming on with 20 to go.

Don't think this Saffa side is the best I've seen, not by a long way, but they are very good. Duane is my pick for IRB player of the year.

I agree on both points

1) Vermeulen is my IRB PotY since the weekend doesn't count. Otherwise McCaw might've come in for another one, the *******!

2) SA very much working with a handicap in 2 key areas IMO (not that any team ever runs at full tilt I suppose) and I have had a smirk everytime I've read that old 'oh, the physicality of the Bokke' line. Currently only Bismarck and Vermeulen fall in that category IMO. We have very much moved away from that and for the most part it has been forced onto us;
- ITO a drop in physicality due to injury Alberts>Mohoje/Burger, Anyone>Matfield (we have literally 4 front line locks out though Matfield has done very well for a 37/8 year old), Etzebeth2012>Etzbeth2014 (that long injury lay off has not been kind on the lad's explosiveness) FLouw>Coetzee (though Coetzee has the better work rate the accumalitive effect is a noticable drop in go-forward ball and overall dominance in contact) Malherbe/MvdM>JdP and it's not just in the forwards though that's where it's hurt the most but JPP>Hendricks (though JPP is seemingly back in good nick now). JdV keeps being a bit of a liability in defense and while he is captain, many have been wondering whether the inclusion of Frans Steyn at 12 or moving Serfontein back to 12 and bringing in Jaque Fourie, JdJ or some youngster won't close a hole in the midfield and up the presence at least in that area if not our potency on attack as well. The inclusion of Pollard is a big + over M Steyn though while I'm talking physicality.
- Form has been an issue; Le Roux has been error prone from the get-go but the benefit far outweighed the 3 errors per game.. that balance has been reversing steadily each game which is a worry for us. Etzebeth and JdV haven't been the players they've always been, the less said about our incumbent props the better in this regard while with FdP out Hougaard has mixed the sublime with utter ineptitude.

Another thing is the movement of our players overseas. I understand why HM doesn't want to go shopping in Europe for SA talent wholesale but I've been frustrated by some of the selections. Guys I've felt could add hugely but we havn't opted for;

Heinke van der Merwe
I don't know how all our TH's have gone or who'd be considered the best but we have so many TH's in Europe that with both Malherbe and MvdM injured and two other options in SA not getting a look in (Dreyer and Redelinghuys- who has been called up now at least) Mujati, Van Staden, Herbst, Du Preez? There are so many I'm sure I'm forgetting a fair few.
Juandre Kruger has been in fine form and then there is RM partner Francois van der Merwe seeing as Flip and Franco van der Merwe have been out long term and this could confuse the hell out of any foreigners; Van der Merwe is the most prevelant surname in SA among my people- there are almost as many jokes
Rory Kockott
Scott Spedding

All could've covered areas we are struggling with either for depth or form.

 

[Big Ewis]

Can I play my Top 14 flute solo smorter ? ♫ you stubborn Saffers got Kruger or FVdM just waiting for this moment, stubborn stubborn Saffers dooloo loodoolooo ♫
ahhh...such a finely awkward tune.

The hilarious (HAHAHA !!) thing about what you're saying there is that yes France got Kockott and Spedding now in areas you guys lack solutions, AND VdM is actually in the France staff's scope. It's just pretty hilarious it's like France are playing troll. We ought to buy even Matfield off you and make him into a famous chef here with his own show now just to complete the job.

I'll continue in the tone of resounding annoyance this post is in by sticking out this stat. It's a mere reminder, and is some lines below.




England haven't beaten the Springboks...(please scroll further)




in 23 tests. Or 11. Whichever onionrings better.

 

[SomeOke]

Can I play my Top 14 flute solo smorter ? ♫ you stubborn Saffers got Kruger or FVdM just waiting for this moment, stubborn stubborn Saffers dooloo loodoolooo ♫
ahhh...such a finely awkward tune.

To be fair Kruger was never known for his physicality. Our real problem at lock is although we don't lack options, they are all either aging Bakkies/Matfield or very young, Etzebeth, de Jager, Pieter Steph du Toit and Lewies. While all of the latter 4 players I rate highly, realistically they will only really be at their peaks for the 2019 WC being under 23, meaning we will still have to rely on the former for a while longer.

 

[unrated]

Our real problem at lock is although we don't lack options, they are all either aging Bakkies/Matfield or very young, Etzebeth, de Jager, Pieter Steph du Toit and Lewies. While all of the latter 4 players I rate highly, realistically they will only really be at their peaks for the 2019 WC being under 23, meaning we will still have to rely on the former for a while longer.

I honestly believe that if fit. Etzebeth and Pieter Steph du Toit should be our world cup pairing. They threw pollard into the deep end vs the all blacks an Etzebeth is already a starter. so why not do it with PSDT? I just don't have confidence in Bakkies and Matfield competing on the world stage for the biggest honour at their age.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Farrell at 12 would be nuts. Eastmond did nothing wrong and infact set up a potential try that Brown fumbled. We can't keep dropping Eastmond every time something goes ***s up, especially if it's not him to blame. Farrell was poor at 10 and I don't want him at 12 when Eastmond did just fine there. Ford at 10 would be fine though.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I honestly believe that if fit. Etzebeth and Pieter Steph du Toit should be our world cup pairing. They threw pollard into the deep end vs the all blacks an Etzebeth is already a starter. so why not do it with PSDT? I just don't have confidence in Bakkies and Matfield competing on the world stage for the biggest honour at their age.

To be fair, they wanted to do that with PSDT but due to injuries they couldn't.

HM has been vocal that he sees Etzebeth and PSDT as the future for the Boks in the lock position.

And @stormer2010 I disagree with you about Juandre, Kockott and Spedding, but that is a topic for another thread. Juandre had his chance at Lock for the boks, and he was a consistent underperformer. The June Test Series when England visited SA comes to mind. HM already has a core group to work with for next year's WC, and if injuries are kept to a minimum, our team will be one of the best around.

Our best team is definitely not in England at the moment. PSDT, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Fourie Du Preez are all guys who would be in the starting team was it not for injury...

 

[SomeOke]

I honestly believe that if fit. Etzebeth and Pieter Steph du Toit should be our world cup pairing. They threw pollard into the deep end vs the all blacks an Etzebeth is already a starter. so why not do it with PSDT? I just don't have confidence in Bakkies and Matfield competing on the world stage for the biggest honour at their age.

It really comes down to - is it worth having one player in the side just for the sake of line-outs and leadership. When this was the case with John Smit I said no, but that was because BdP offered so much more, at this stage I'm happy that Victor starting is worthwhile.

 

[goodNumber10]

You know, cynic that I am, the moment that I saw him shifting there during the game I thought 'someone is going to push for this'.

I mean, it wouldn't be the worst thing, but it would be fairly terrible.

That being said, Lancaster stated yesterday that he wouldn't make 'wholesale' changes. Going on past experience I think that'll mean no changes to the starting XV but for injuries and maybe one or two bench changes. While I think most of us would like to see something a little more radical, at least that hints that there won't be a change of 10-12 axis...

hopefully they'll keep the same 15 that started last week... I'd like to see Billy and Wood step down tot he bench, but i can live with the starting as they will hopefully have a point to prove.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Kyle is fully fit and available for selection.

 

[Big Ewis]

aawwww come on @TRF_nickdnz !! oh and to the reason you gave: woof !...

To be fair Kruger was never known for his physicality. Our real problem at lock is although we don't lack options, they are all either aging Bakkies/Matfield or very young, Etzebeth, de Jager, Pieter Steph du Toit and Lewies. While all of the latter 4 players I rate highly, realistically they will only really be at their peaks for the 2019 WC being under 23, meaning we will still have to rely on the former for a while longer.

well Kruger isn't a 2m10 140kg lock who can lift cars with his semi-hard dick, but he's got real skill, great hands and can run. A workhorse. And his enthusiasm is a real plus, for himself and the team he's plays on. Great lineout option too. Plus he isn't exactly a stick physiologically and he's just the perfect age. Around 28: just enough maturity but still young. Plus he's already tasted int'l Rugby and the Springboks...
so what, we got a deal or ??...ok I'll throw in that he said his dream was to win the WC with the Boks. Plus there's no denying he's got a fantastic tan.

 

[SomeOke]

aawwww come on @TRF_nickdnz !! oh and to the reason you gave: woof !... Around 28: just enough maturity but still young. Plus he's already tasted int'l Rugby and the Springboks...
so what, we got a deal or ??...ok I'll throw in that he said his dream was to win the WC with the Boks. Plus there's no denying he's got a fantastic tan.

I don't think he offers as much as you're saying. Also if it was really his dream to play for the Bokke in the WC he wouldn't have moved to Racing just when he was getting caps for the Bokke.

 

[Patchey]

I just read somewhere that the Ford/Farrell combo only lost twice in five years? Is that true?

hopefully they'll keep the same 15 that started last week... I'd like to see Billy and Wood step down tot he bench, but i can live with the starting as they will hopefully have a point to prove.

That would certainly better than some of the ideas the press are talking a about.

As Rats says, BBC now reporting the XV likely to be unchanged.

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't think he offers as much as you're saying. Also if it was really his dream to play for the Bokke in the WC he wouldn't have moved to Racing just when he was getting caps for the Bokke.

well it is though. I know that. He uhm. Told me. Plus he wouldn't have told that to some French journalist asking him questions about his integration in the Racing contingent and France in general...there might be 20 South Africans in the world who read that interview. You can play abroad and get selected by the Bokkke.
And the things I've mentioned are fact, things I've seen every weekend for the past year and a half watching Racing. Then whether he's right or not for the Boks is another story, and I only have so much ink left in my quill.