[2014 EOYT] France vs Australia

[Big Ewis]

source: Rugbyrama French time (GMT +1)

Location: Stade de France, Paris, France.
Ref: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Date: November 15th 2014



​

Week 3. France's second game of the Autumn. For them, a date with confirmation; a very *****y date. What they've shown all year long has been nothing short of dramatic, and near tragic. For those who have actually watched them regularly; the complete lack of a game plan, any strategy at all, the incredibly awkward play, the jumpy irregularities within every single game, the awful situations they'd get themselves into for no reason, the integral failure and complete sterility on attack, and just simply the complete inability to look like a Rugby Tier 1 nation at times in spite of the players available on paper; after watching the last France v Fiji, one could see it as the end of a cycle perhaps. The changes in the lineup, the long 4month interruption with Test Rugby and this seemingly 'random' regain or drop of form only France could ever conjure may be eventual explicative factors as to a semblance of a return to world Rugby, which we'll find out towards the end of this thread's fixture.
The French staff have specified they wanted to focus on more simple Rugby, and only had about 4 schemes on attack they intended to see perfected as November comes to a term.
This is their first real test with their new look, and while there are areas of concern (scrum was only average against Fiji - FIJI), there have also been genuinely positive aspects intrinsically this past weekend in their first test, regardless of whether the opposition was Tier 2 or not.

For Australia, a fine effort in Cardiff despite a few absent minded lapses on defense; this is a group with a new coach with lots yet to prove and riding on good form. They'll likely be sharper, and typically will be given good chances against this French side the way they've been playing as of 2014.

Nobody's quite sure what will happen, but the certainty is this: this test won't leave anyone perplexed and will give a good indication of where both teams stand right now in the Rugby world chessboard.

 

[goodNumber10]

is, is.... that a football pitch?

on a serious note, just running through the Aussie vs Wales game and they look better than the score suggests, their defence int eh seocnd half was excellent, so i wouldn't be surprised to see the Wobblies turn over les blues!

 

[gaston le gaff]

This should be the first real test for France v Fiji they looked good in parts need a bit more work up front and the backs need to be more precise in attack Lopez a little to much cross field running and giving the ball a little too early he needs to try and cross the gain LINE more often but it was a good start for the 3 match campagn not sure there will be many changes in the team v Australia.

 

[French TommyGun]

Yeah next week will be the real challenge and we still have a lot of work to do if we want come out on top Saturday.
Teddy Thomas was great, a hat trick on his 1st cap you can't really ask for more! I don't want to take anything away from his performance but he looked offside to me on the 1st try only by a nose but still... and he practically jumped out of the way of the 1st Fijian try! Epic missed tackle! Lopez wasn't as good as I thought he would be and Tales outshines him with his chip to Fofana! That try was Pure class
All in all beating Fiji like that was a big confidence boost and it has given us hope for when we take on the Aussies.

 

[Big Ewis]

is, is.... that a football pitch?

haha, it is ! Many apologies for that, but it's a nice banner

Lopez was just about how I expected him. He recognized quickly he was kicking too much and looked to keep in hand in stead but wasn't the line breaker he can be. He did show real class with the foot though, and that form on his goal kicking is just fantastic.

I want to see the same team, except war machine Bastareaud in for Dumoulin. Despite the latter's fantastic game on Saturday, he's got just one cap, we need BastaGros' many services against Australia.
Then Kayser in for Guirado. He's bigger, better at the breakdown, and a very sound hooker otherwise. Guirado's good but doesn't offer as much in "the battle".

I'd also have liked Atonio starting for Mas but it's not reasonable. Again, Atonio=1 cap, we need Mas' experience even if he's 1/10th of what he used to be.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Before seeing the teams I would guess at an Oz win. They will be well preppered for this game and managed to put 33 points on Wales so I can see them winning here. Then again who knows what France turn up, with minimal changes they will be well gelled and should put in a good performance. If i was the French coach Basta would come in, Kayser and Lauret. You need a fetcher to combat with Hooper, end of and if that means dropping a powerhouse like Le Roux then that is needed. I would like to see France win though.

 

[Big Ewis]

Before seeing the teams I would guess at an Oz win. They will be well preppered for this game and managed to put 33 points on Wales so I can see them winning here. Then again who knows what France turn up, with minimal changes they will be well gelled and should put in a good performance. If i was the French coach Basta would come in, Kayser and Lauret. You need a fetcher to combat with Hooper, end of and if that means dropping a powerhouse like Le Roux then that is needed. I would like to see France win though.

good post. Was about to say the same thing: don't need to see the lineups, I see the Aussies winning this. Indeed they managed a fine win in Cardiff, and despite the curse and wtvr it's still a very good win, especially for a team that was supposed to be in transition. France have an entirely new halfback pairing and new elements throughout, however successful those were in the first test, it still was a match against a tier 2 side. I'd like to think France are on a good dynamic, finally, but even if so, then again, they need time to gel like any other team; so had this match happened maybe 3 months from now, I may give France the nod, but the Aussies just know their game, are riding a good confidence wave and are just top opposition globally.

Here are the points for France though, reasons going along the notion they can win:
- we've played them 3 times in June, and although they'll be as good, they'll be the same. We're different now.
- France need this badly, and will be thinking about that horrible tour and will take it to heart to correct it.
- if we just produce an effort similar to Test 2 in Aus, the 6-0 one, and our defense can simply be up to the level it should - we now have some real attacking that looked very sharp last weekend and actual continuity there. Even in light of the fact this is Aus, not Fiji, we won't look as perfectly clueless as those last 3 summer tests.

About Lauret vs Hooper, the latter did hurt us a lot indeed last summer, but Lauret isn't in the group so I don't PSA will pick him. They sent Camara back though and took Nyanga in stead, so perhaps they'll be looking to use him. Probably off the bench, they won't want to disrupt a winning formula too much, and Le Roux adds lots of meat to that 3d row.

 

[Jbobo]

Don't anticipate anything other than an Aussie win here, but then again I hope it's a close one.

If France can stay in touch and run them close, i think it will be a good progression for them. Really need to pick up and show what they can do and carry on from the Fiji game.

I'll go for Aussies by 9.

 

[Mikel92]

Watched bits and pieces of last weeks game with Wales/Wallabies. I do think the Wallabies should be able to win. Wales at home, with returning players, roaring crowd, Aus in a transitional period, thought they'd be ripe for the picking. Wallabies have a few great combinations happening right now. Would like to see more of McMahon and Hooper together. Looking at their stats on ESPN, both of them had better tackling statistics than McCaw last week which contributed to a 168 tackle count by Australia. They could be quite a defensive duo.

I can see France running out of ideas and kicking a lot, or just not going anywhere in general. That's just my feeling. I'd back Australia for the win.

 

[French TommyGun]

Well I think France is going to win this one. No fancy reason why, no statistic of past games or players form... just faith. We did it 2 years ago so why not on Saturday? Stranger things have happened!

 

[gaston le gaff]

I,'ll 2nd that if they continue in the same vein and a touch more aggressive they should come out on top , there will be a couple of changes I think but if the back row start to boss the game and Lopez is more direct then France could well make it 2 out of 2

 

[Every Time Ref]

Lopez was just about how I expected him. He recognized quickly he was kicking too much and looked to keep in hand in stead but wasn't the line breaker he can be. He did show real class with the foot though, and that form on his goal kicking is just fantastic.

I have to say, I thought France could have done with a structured kicking game in the first half. There seemed to be a lot of aimless running in innocuous positions to me, some clever kicks to the corner and up-n-unders would have given France some field position and momentum - don't forget, in the period after the break where France scored those two quick tries and almost a couple more, one try and one chance both came directly from dropped up-n-unders. In general I liked the look of Lopez though - first time I'd seen him as I don't watch the Top 14, but played solidly and there were flashes to suggest he can be a dangerous runner, is that correct? as I said, just thought he might have played a better tactical kicking game, but that could easily have come from the coaches.

In general, this is a huge test for France. They looked electric at times with ball in hand, but a top tier nation is going to be different kettle of fish. They went wide quickly in the second half against Fiji which worked; they never had to 'earn the right'. Against Aus they'll need some grunt up front to suck in defense and get themselves good ball before spreading it. There were also moments when the defense was lacking, when the Fijian 13 skipped past six players laterally to create an overlap that was inexcusable, and the French all looked a bit like they didn't really give a toss as they jogged casually back. Again, defense will need to be better, as it will get tested a lot more, and so will that attitude.

If i was the French coach Basta would come in.

Kuridrani will have that Bastareaud on toast ... that's not to say the alternatives are any better, mind

I'm not convinced this French side have necessarily turned the corner just yet (although signs were promising), so I'm going for an Aus win and a fairly comfortable one ... 12-13 points, let's say.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Basta is actually a very good defender. I don't know who would stop Kuridrani at the moment. I said he might struggle v wales and he shut me up, maybe they should bring in Fritz ?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Basta is actually a very good defender. I don't know who would stop Kuridrani at the moment. I said he might struggle v wales and he shut me up, maybe they should bring in Fritz ?

I didn't necessarily mean he would flatten him, my wording was a bit flippant, what I meant was as an all round centre he is far better, far more rounded. Basta's defense is decent but for a big man he still can get run over by steamrollers from time to time ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7gaOrfvzBo

If you're the shape and style of player that Bastareaud is, you need to tackle harder than that to call yourself a "good defender" in my view. To be blunt, I don't rate Bastareaud much. He's a prop who no-one taught to scrummage accidentally standing in the midfield.

 

[French TommyGun]

I didn't necessarily mean he would flatten him, my wording was a bit flippant, what I meant was as an all round centre he is far better, far more rounded. Basta's defense is decent but for a big man he still can get run over by steamrollers from time to time ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7gaOrfvzBo

If you're the shape and style of player that Bastareaud is, you need to tackle harder than that to call yourself a "good defender" in my view. To be blunt, I don't rate Bastareaud much. He's a prop who no-one taught to scrummage accidentally standing in the midfield.

I tend to agree with that. I think Bastareaud's hay day was in the 2010 grandslam . I remember thinking he was amazing But ever since then he hasn't done anything substantial for France and in my opinion isn't a world class centre.
I really want him to prove me wrong but I don't think he will!

 

[Guilty]

Really was not impressed with France over the June tests and I'm really not buying that they are a different team at home talk that I am hearing from the media. Expecting the lads to get it done by 10+ points. France will need to dominate the trenches and control possession to win which I just don't see happening with this outfit. Having said that, the Wallabies would be doing themselves no favors thinking this game is a given because as we all know (especially our Kiwi friends), when the French do decide to play they can beat anybody.

 

[French TommyGun]

Yeah but all you Aussies are forgetting 1 very important factor... we have Serge Blanco on our side
Yeah that's right shaking in ya boots now huh?!

 

[Big Ewis]

I have to say, I thought France could have done with a structured kicking game in the first half. There seemed to be a lot of aimless running in innocuous positions to me, some clever kicks to the corner and up-n-unders would have given France some field position and momentum - don't forget, in the period after the break where France scored those two quick tries and almost a couple more, one try and one chance both came directly from dropped up-n-unders. In general I liked the look of Lopez though - first time I'd seen him as I don't watch the Top 14, but played solidly and there were flashes to suggest he can be a dangerous runner, is that correct? as I said, just thought he might have played a better tactical kicking game, but that could easily have come from the coaches.

In general, this is a huge test for France. They looked electric at times with ball in hand, but a top tier nation is going to be different kettle of fish. They went wide quickly in the second half against Fiji which worked; they never had to 'earn the right'. Against Aus they'll need some grunt up front to suck in defense and get themselves good ball before spreading it. There were also moments when the defense was lacking, when the Fijian 13 skipped past six players laterally to create an overlap that was inexcusable, and the French all looked a bit like they didn't really give a toss as they jogged casually back. Again, defense will need to be better, as it will get tested a lot more, and so will that attitude.



Kuridrani will have that Bastareaud on toast ... that's not to say the alternatives are any better, mind

I'm not convinced this French side have necessarily turned the corner just yet (although signs were promising), so I'm going for an Aus win and a fairly comfortable one ... 12-13 points, let's say.

So you'll watch a casual France Fiji 2014 but you didn't watch New Zealand France in 2013 ? And you don't watch the Top 14, that's totally fine, but you don't watch Saracens European Cup games either ? Lopez was magnificent in that one.

As for Bastareaud it's actually surprising to see him overtaken by Tuilagi both times there, didn't even remember those...there's a majority that seems to think he's not much which is absolutely insane to me, a guy who actually watches every Toulon game and notices all the good things he does for France not just the bad.


@French TommyGun: saying Bastareaud was just good during the 2010 Grand Slam is...let's just say very inaccurate. People forget everything he brings at the breakdown, the good defender he is most of the time, the huge hits he can put in, and the fact that he commands 2 or 3 defenders on him on every single impact.

The fact that France has SUCKED since bringing him back in bleus in 2013 our worst year in history and that PSa and Lagisquet are clueless as to how to run a team and backline is obviously a potent culprit. Watch the games in Toulon. He's one of the very best players in the Top 14.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yeah, when I've seen him play for Toulon he's looked like a quality player, but when he's played for France he really hasn't. I've always put it down to the difference in level, which has caught out plenty of very good domestic league players, but it could be down to the French coaching setup not getting the best out of him. I am talking about him in the context of playing for France though, so if that was the case my point would still stand. As I said, I'm not familiar with French rugby, I don't really know what the options are (although I like what I've seen of Fritz ... not sure he and Fofana belong together though?), I'm not necessarily saying he shouldn't be picked - just my opinion of him as an international player.

PS - I did watch France-New Zealand in 2013; I was already pretty drunk and it was an unmemorable mudfest as far as I recall ... so sketchy on details there, sorry

 

[Big Ewis]

Yeah, when I've seen him play for Toulon he's looked like a quality player, but when he's played for France he really hasn't.

oh, really ?? You're saying a French int'l player looks good when he plays for his club, but not for country ?? nooooooooooooooooo

PS - I did watch France-New Zealand in 2013; I was already pretty drunk and it was an unmemorable mudfest as far as I recall ... so sketchy on details there, sorry

oh, and here: you're saying a PSA-era France game was somehow 'unmemorable' ???? nooooooooooooooooo.......you're just fkn with me !!