[2014 EOYT] Scotland vs New Zealand

[Bean]

if its was close to the end like 7 minutes to go then yes it was the streaker,

Yep, sounds about right.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Nothing fantastic about that game but there has definitely been an improvement under Cotter. Hard luck Scotland, like Ireland last year you were a missed penalty away from history. (inb4 BG8's neg rep for mentioning that Sexton bottled Ireland's best ever chance to beat NZ) Scotland won one big international match this weekend anyway, there's not enough buckfast in the country to handle two!

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Scrappy match from both teams, especially ABs, Scots defense was strong.
DC looked out of sync, TJ and Parsons not so good.
McCaw is an absolute tackling machine, but lacks the ball carrying qualities of Kaino.
Tight five not so good either. ABs C side got lucky with the win, full strength ABs team different story.
Scots should still be proud with the result.

 

[Tony Manx]

Brave, brave performance by Scotland against the AB's "seconds" but hardly showed hardly any real penetration! Great work at the break down, good tackling, lots of effort and some sterling defence assisted slightly by the "poor" (all relative when you talk about them) handling of the ABs. Big Vern done good............

Scrum was interesting as Scotland did not hook and edged the penalty count by collapsing the scrum anyway whereas the AB's hooker had his foot up ready for the scum half to throw the ball at!

Interesting that no penalty was given for that but maybe the old rule against foot up by the hooker died the same time as that for the "squint" feed.

Thought Scotland's best player was Seymour....first time I have seen him but he is quick and slippery and took a good try... Carter was a dis-as-ter and was surprised he lasted as long as he did. Greatest 10 there has been but even he should play himself back into the game after almost a year out in a lesser game than an international.

Scots were on hiding to nothing as if they had won, it would have been denigrated by the "sub standard class" of this AB team and as they lost, really it was probably expected. Still, I think Italy are c****ing themselves and can only be looking forward to getting the wooden spoon in the 6 N as cannot now see anyone they can beat and indeed will be the whipping boys - even to the Scots!!

Pun of the day from the inimitable Brian Moore when Savea kicked on and Hogg took it to ground and Moore said about Hogg......."He did well there under Savea pressure.............."!! I thought it was funny anyway!!!

Now for the French game...................

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pun of the day from the inimitable Brian Moore when Savea kicked on and Hogg took it to ground and Moore said about Hogg......."He did well there under Savea pressure.............."!! I thought it was funny anyway!!!

Haha, I clocked that too

 

[Bazzy]

Such a messy game. I thought both sides played very poorly. The ball must have been bar of soap. Neither side were able to hand onto it for any length of time!

 

[turmeric2015]

Good games from:
- Vito
- Piutau
- Slade (at 10)

Poor games from:
- Parsons
- Slade (at 14)
- Smith (given what we expect from him)

My quick takes:
Yes, Vito was good, shame he went off, thought the ABs lacked punch out wide when he wasn't there!
Piutau, looked like he was going to have a cracker with the way he played the first 10 min, but after that I wasn't that impressed. That being said, I was largely unimpressed by the whole team.
Slade (@14) - I don't like him playing there at all, but he managed it well. If it was a test to see if he can cover wing at a pinch, then fine, he showed he's capable. I hope we never see him there again though.
Thrush - I think he was by far the best player on the field, and easily played his best game in the Black Jersey, I was hugely impressed by him.

TJ Perenara - quite disappointing. Clearance from the rucks was poor, slow ball, average passing at times, box kick still needs a lot of work.
Parsons - ditto. Lineouts bad.
Carter - not that great either. Pretty sloppy at times with his passing, in play kicking, and goal kicking. Presumably he has a lot of improvement in him as he gets more game time, but for me Cruden is #1 on current form!

On a whole, a hugely sloppy performance from the All Blacks, quite disappointing!

Also, (Darwin) I was listening to radio sport this morning, and the panel confirmed the ABs did say this tour was a dress rehearsal for the RWC, with the USA as their last pool game. So I am back to feeling like we were taken for a ride with all this PR BS. From now on they need to concentrate on fielding good, if not their best team every week, stop feeding their supporters BS, because I'm starting to get some nasty memories of 2007.

 

[Mikel92]

In terms of facts and figures, does anybody know how many lineouts were actually mucked up while Parsons was on? I only recall one instance where it was overthrown. And by mucked up I don't mean the locks screwing up, cause that isn't really his fault.

 

[turmeric2015]

In terms of facts and figures, does anybody know how many lineouts were actually mucked up while Parsons was on? I only recall one instance where it was overthrown. And by mucked up I don't mean the locks screwing up, cause that isn't really his fault.

Granted a lost line out is often not just the fault of the hooker, but most of the time he plays some part.

I can't recall the details of how many line outs were lost when Parsons was on, or how they were lost (one line out lost wasn't actually captured by the coverage I was watching as they were playing highlights of a previous incident). My memory though is he lost 3 out of the first 4 or 5 line outs (I may well be wrong though, so stand to be corrected by the actual stats). Either way, it was one aspect of many, were the ABs fell flat. Not able to retain ones ball at set piece really makes it tricky to get momentum, and the way I saw the game Parsons was a pretty big culprit in that area. Interested in others opinions.

It's a shame for him really, cause I think he would have probably gone a heck of a lot better had the whole forward pack not been changed since the previous game...

 

[Mikel92]

Just in terms of Thrush - a couple people already mentioned it but his stats were easily the best for this game. The most amount of tackles for NZ - 11. One try to his name. 3 defenders beaten. One clean break. Ran 29 meters - the most amount for our forwards.

Cane made the second most amount of tackles. He was solid I thought, a quiet but effective worker. 21 meters gained and a try-assist. Two penalties though.

 

[turmeric2015]

Just in terms of Thrush - a couple people already mentioned it but his stats were easily the best for this game. The most amount of tackles for NZ - 11. One try to his name. 3 defenders beaten. One clean break. Ran 29 meters - the most amount for our forwards.

Cane made the second most amount of tackles. He was solid I thought, a quiet but effective worker. 21 meters gained and a try-assist. Two penalties though.

2 charge downs, and a sneaky try assist as well Not to mention all the ruck work he did. I was super impressed by him. Easily the best player on the paddock. Really stoked for the guy. IMO he is has won him self the back up lock position, although Tuipulotu may be the first choice bench guy due to his running game impact.

 

[nzlizard]

My quick takes:
Yes, Vito was good, shame he went off, thought the ABs lacked punch out wide when he wasn't there!
Piutau, looked like he was going to have a cracker with the way he played the first 10 min, but after that I wasn't that impressed. That being said, I was largely unimpressed by the whole team.

TJ Perenara - quite disappointing. Clearance from the rucks was poor, slow ball, average passing at times, box kick still needs a lot of work.
Parsons - ditto. Lineouts bad.
Carter - not that great either. Pretty sloppy at times with his passing, in play kicking, and goal kicking. Presumably he has a lot of improvement in him as he gets more game time, but for me Cruden is #1 on current form!

Yup Vito looked good for a guy with little rugby
Piutau looked to make some poor choices and run to close to the line for my liking, coupled with lineout issues this was not good.
TJP just too far behind Smith, at least TKB offered something different.
Yup, Cruden has to start next week, just who is on the bench is the question.

In terms of facts and figures, does anybody know how many lineouts were actually mucked up while Parsons was on? I only recall one instance where it was overthrown. And by mucked up I don't mean the locks screwing up, cause that isn't really his fault.

1 over throw I can remember, 3-4 lost in general.

Just in terms of Thrush - a couple people already mentioned it but his stats were easily the best for this game. The most amount of tackles for NZ - 11. One try to his name. 3 defenders beaten. One clean break. Ran 29 meters - the most amount for our forwards.

Cane made the second most amount of tackles. He was solid I thought, a quiet but effective worker. 21 meters gained and a try-assist. Two penalties though.

Have come to expect more from Cane in his appearances so I suppose he was noticed missing at the breakdown winning ball.

 

[turmeric2015]

Yup Vito looked good for a guy with little rugby
Piutau looked to make some poor choices and run to close to the line for my liking, coupled with lineout issues this was not good.
TJP just too far behind Smith, at least TKB offered something different.
Yup, Cruden has to start next week, just who is on the bench is the question.

I am of the opinion that in reality (at this stage) the first five stocks (for big games) are this: In terms of starting Cruden is the #1, Carter is #2, Barrett #3, Slade #4. BUT on the bench Barrett is #1 Slade #2 Cruden #3 Carter #4.

Bench cover for 10, 12, and outside backs has become a specialist position in itself IMO. It seems to me the priority is on covering as many positions as possible but first and foremost #10, coupled with pace, composure, and ability to make an impact. Barrett ticks all the boxes, Slade is becoming a close second (just without the speed factor). This leaves the selectors with much more flexibility to stack the rest of the bench with forwards, a half and one other back, likely a specialist 12 or 13.

Therefore my pick, barring injuries, is Cruden starts, with Barrett on the bench. Thoughts?

Same logic follows for lock. I think Thrush has won himself the back up starting position, but I think Tuipolotu is the first choice bench lock (ahead of Thrush) assuming the incumbents are fit!

 

[Mikel92]

Seems as though Hansen has acknowledged that the loss of Victor Vito, who was actually calling the lineouts, had a direct impact on how they went thereafter. Which was kinda my way of thinking as well. There were many elements happening with that set piece. Not really as simple as saying "Parsons done bad".

 

[Jbobo]

Well, this is Wales in for a hammering.

 

[RoosTah]

That was an awful match... don't think I've seen the All Blacks play that bad before. It was like watching the Kangaroos in the League last night - just way below their best.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Seems as though Hansen has acknowledged that the loss of Victor Vito, who was actually calling the lineouts, had a direct impact on how they went thereafter. Which was kinda my way of thinking as well. There were many elements happening with that set piece. Not really as simple as saying "Parsons done bad".

I actually thought the lineouts were ok with Parsons on - they went downhill a bit when Vito went off (not significantly), but that's to be expected when neither Retallick, Whitelock or Read are on the field.

As I said earlier, my biggest gripe with Parsons was his complete lack of physicality. In the NZ EOYT thread I've done a wee bit of analysis of the second tier of hookers in NZ and Parsons made the fewest carries per minute and made the least ground of the main hookers in the ITM Cup. His tackling stats weren't especially impressive either. I would probably rank him behind all of Harris, Marshall, Funnell, Coltman and Dixon.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I thought Scotland played well and should've punished the AB's with a defeat if they could have kept their composure at scoring times.
The AB;s continue to blood inexperienced players and get them a chance to shine (or not shine) under pressure. It does mean we will play scrappy rugby and not be at our best but it is a necessary process to go through to make sure the conveyer belt keeps revolving.
Scotland were a banana skin and Hansen did well to avoid skidding on it.

 

[turmeric2015]

Seems as though Hansen has acknowledged that the loss of Victor Vito, who was actually calling the lineouts, had a direct impact on how they went thereafter. Which was kinda my way of thinking as well. There were many elements happening with that set piece. Not really as simple as saying "Parsons done bad".

Has anyone actually said that though? I haven't read the thread in its entirety, but I haven't read yet someone saying "Parson done bad".

That being said, I think he had a poor debut (as per my original post). I will wait for confirmation on the line out stats, but as I said my memory is that three were lost quite early on in the game on his throw. If that is the case, no matter how you tweak it, that is far from good.
Then, as Fish said, he lacked physicality outside of set piece. He had one good partial turnover early, but then couldn't fully gain possession, so that really became a nothing play. To be perfectly honest I think he is very lucky to have gotten a test cap, and doubt he will get another one, unless they feel the need to trial him again off the bench v Wales.

Again I fully concur with Fish, there are some better hooking options in NZ for the number 3; Harris, Marshall, Funnell definitely and then I would say Coltman Parsons and Dixon are a step behind (in that order). The stats over the last year are a reasonable indication.

Not bagging the guy, he is a good player, and Im happy for him he got a test cap. Just think it was right place at the right time with the injury and him being on JKs BarBars side.....

No doubt, if asked in private, he would not have been thrilled at his performance. 1 chance to make a mark, and I think it was a bit of a lost opportunity.

 

[austingtir]

I honestly think Slade hasnt disgraced himself in this match at all. Whereas Cruden and Barrett have been a bit suspect all season. Carter did not show anything special and was a bit of a disapointment really imo.

At this stage I do think Hansen should be giving Slade and Barrett as many chances as possible... If for nothing more than to wake Carter and Cruden in particular up.

He's got nothing to loose as to me Slade has shown as much form as any other 10 we've had this year.