[2014 EOYT] South Africa

[TRF_stormer2010]

VS

November 8: Ireland v Springboks (AVIVA Stadium, Dublin) Referee: Romain Poite (FFR)

November 15: England v Springboks (Twickenham, London) Referee: Steve Walsh (AUS)

November 22: Italy v Springboks (Venue TBC) Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)

November 29: Wales v Springboks (Millennium Stadium, Cardiff) Referee: John Lacy (IRFU)


​

Here we go. Who are in or have been involved, who are injured or otherwise unavaiable and who might be bolters to tour? What might the touring squad size be? How will political pressure (read racial quotas) influence selection if at all? Where do we need to find new talent if at all or simply develop depth?

I will lst the players I feel might or should get a look in and we can whittle it down from there (Probable to make the 36 in green and bold);

PROP
Tendai Mtawarira
Frans Malherbe - out till Feb 2015
Jannie du Plessis
Marcel van der Merwe
Lourens Adriaanse - could miss out due to fitness/injury
Trevor Nyakane
Guthro Steenkamp
Coenie Oosthuizen
have all been involved with the bokke relatively recently
Brian Mujati - probably won't play for us again as he has stated some years ago
Heinke van der Merwe
are some of our forgotten talent based in Europe
Thomas du Toit - possibly too young but very promising
Lizo Gqoboka - see above
Julian Redelinghuys - was the form SA tighthead prior to injury but is back in Curry Cup action, might get a call up if Malherbe and Adriaanse are are already capped fails to regain fitness
are/could/should be in contention


HOOKER
Bismarck du Plessis
Adriaan Strauss
Schalk Brits
Are the current players
Chiliboy Ralepele
has been heavily involved in the past
Craig Burden
Scarra Ntubeni - back to fitness and looking good for WP
Armand van der Merwe - up and coming but I'd be surprised if these players see capsbefore RWC 2015 is history
could be bolters if we were to suffer injury


LOCK
Eben Etzebeth - hasn't been in the best form in general play but still stealing line-out ball from 2
Pieter-Steph du Toit - still very much injured I'm afraid
Victor Matfield - has done enough to deflect fears/criticisms about his age
Bakkies Botha
Lood de Jager - has fallen out of favor but might get a look in again in the heavier European fields where he'd be more suited
Flip van der Merwe - long term injury
Franco van der Merwe - probably not at this stage; too old and has been out too long now IMO
Stefan Lewies - can feel hard done by IMO
Have been involved relatively recently
Andries Bekker - no idea what sort of form or lack thereof he is in
Francois van der Merwe - the RM92 duo of Flip's brother and Kruger have been going nicely. Has HM and co noticed though?
Juandre Kruger
should not be forgotten too easily
Jandre Marais - probably these 5 are too young and Marais and Willemse have decided to move North before staking their claim in SA; we'll prob not see them in green.
Paul Willemse
Ruan Botha
Jean Kleyn
Etthiene Oosthuizen
are youngsters who might get a 'travel along pass'


LOOSE FORWARD
Duane Vermeulen
Willem Alberts - set to regain fitness for the tour and should be hungry for action
Marcel Coetzee
Francois Louw - still injured but should be available. Has possibly been usurped by the more dynamic Coetzee
Schalk Burger - in good form the veteran
Oupa Mohoje - hasn't done anything wrong but he has been outshone by Burger IMO and either needs to up his workrate ala Coetzee/Carr or up the impact he makes with the little he does ala Alberts.
Warren Whitely - the 7's star, form SA SR loosie and current back-up Bok 8 is probably not suited to the heavy European fields.
Juan Smith - off the pace in Argentina but might get a look in
Have been involved with the Bokke recently
Heinrich Brussow - might as well not exist (ITO his rugby)
Siya Kolisi - has been off form since his debut year and recently injured too boot
Arno Botha - long term injury, the question remains whether he can come back in the sort of form that made him Bok starting blindside in his debut year and is there enough time in 2015.
Jacques Potgieter - in good form for the SR champion Waratahs but not interested in plying his trade in (for?) SA.
have been out for various reasons but should be kept in mind (especially Botha if he can regain pre-injury form)
Nizaam Carr - form Currie Cup loosie. Was also in fine form in SR earlier. Probably not big enough for HM's tastes
CJ Stander
youngsters that might get the 'travel along pass'


SCRUM HALF
Fourie du Preez - Confirmed out for 2014 and recovering from surgery.
Ruan Pienaar - was injured during the RC. I suspect he might have dropped behind Francois Hougaard now. Should probably be fit for November
Francois Hougaard - has had two good games now! The locals have wondered whether it might be now that the Oscar Pistorius trial is behind us. He has the added benefit of partnering Handre Pollard at the Bulls so the two should build up some better understanding.
Cobus Reinach - looked every bit the live wire against the Wallabies in Cape Town but strangely subdued/unsure on the weekend tasked with chasing and then closing out the game against the ABs. The experience can only be good for who I saw as our form 9 this year. Him and Hougaard suit the more ball-in-hand game we are seemingly moving towards. He again has the benefit of a partnership with our 2nd 10 in Lambie.
Currently the scrummies we've seen play. I really can't see the others get a look in at this stage with FdP being FdP and the others looking on the up and up while Kockott is now a Cock.


FLY HALF
Handre Pollard - maybe Steyn's capitulation against Aus in Perth was a blessing in disguise?
Pat Lambie - along with Pollard probably our most 'rounded' 10's ATM. Hope both these two up their gola success % to at least 80% though
Morne Steyn - the one thing you could say for him is he was consistent in what he did. With that not a certainty...
Probably the three that'll get into the 36 man squad and have seen the most recent selection.
Johan Goosen - failed to get on past a run of injuries but still young enough to see a green jersey in the future
Marnitz Boshoff - untimely injury for a solid 10. TBH we probably need to see another good SR season I'd not be surprised if he gets in ahead of Morne Steyn for the RWC squad
Might get in in case of injury to the above three


CENTER
Jean de Villiers
Jan Serfontein
Damian de Allende - the form SA back in SR but failed to show that in green and at 13. TBF he made his mark for the Stormers wearing 12 and 14.
Have done duty in the centers this RC
Jaque Fourie - bit of a question mark and missing out on test season
Juan de Jongh - has been in good leaning too great form and helped the Stromers to some wins in the latter stages of SR and is leading the WP CC ***le charge but sadly overlooked
JJ Engelbrecht - has been rather quite this year
Frans Steyn - has said his heart is not in it any more
Are still alive and one of them will probably crack a nod for the 36 man squad I'd imagine unless JPP is seen as a utility covering 13


WING
Bryan Habana
Cornal Hendricks - if he could defend like he carries and up his work rate off the ball..
JP Petersen - still a rock in defense and carries strongly but needs to regain his swerve in attack
Our incumbent wings
Lwazi Mvovo - in good form and has added to his skill set; not just listering pace. A good utility option now to cover wing and fullback
Will probably travel
Gio Aplon
Seabelo Senatla - was en route to be a Bok bolter prior to injury. Should regain fitness in time. We'll probably see him take over from Habana post RWC2015 only.
Might be picked if we suffer an injury?


FULLBACK
Willie le Roux - a bit hit and miss in 2014. A bit of an enigma but the best bet we've got at this stage. One game he tackles like a champ, next game it goes pear shaped. Same for tactical kicking and play making.
Our only REAL option at this stage sadly
Jaco Taute - has been slowly building into form post that terrible run of injuries and then.. yes, he gets injured again. Thankfully only a week or two and not full seasons this time. Sad that his utilty sees him not get full time at full back
Cheslin Kolbe - too small, too young and currently too injured
Jesse Kriel - probably too young and raw at this stage
SP Marais - injured
Zane Kirchner - Zane Kirchner
Full back a position we are strangely lacking in. I fully expect Lwazi Mvovo to be considered our 2nd option at fullback though.

 

[TheSaffycen]

What is the schedule for the Bok this tour ?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What is the schedule for the Bok this tour ?

A very good point; I should have lead with that instead of assuming everyone would know;


November 8: Ireland v Springboks (AVIVA Stadium, Dublin)
November 15: England v Springboks (Twickenham, London)
November 22: Italy v Springboks (Venue TBC)
November 29: Wales v Springboks (Millennium Stadium, Cardiff)

A tough tour this year... as every year I suppose.

 

[TheSaffycen]

A bit far off to predict, as we don't know form and teams etc, but you should beat Italy and Wales. Ireland looked really good and with more time with Schmidt they will cause problems, I would predict a win either way by 8 points. I want England to win, so hopefully we will.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So I see England, NZ and Scotland are already up. So why not SA?

I would've, but I try to limit the amount of threads I start...


Agree with most you have mentioned there.

If I may add:

Prop:
Morne Mellett
Caylib Oosthuizen

Hooker:
Callie Visagie

Loose trio:
Marnus Schoeman
Jacques Du Plessis
Lappies Labuschagne

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well, knowing Meyer and knowing it's almost RWC time we aren't likely to experiment so for SA at least I think it's a case of guessing the pecking order which shouldn't be too hard and seeing who is fit leading up to the time.

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah the only game South Africa are sure to win is the one when uhh...when in Rome. I could absolutely see them losing the other 3, would be a bit strange the Boks would lose 3 of 4, but England in England, Wales in Wales, Ireland in Ireland...atm, that's quite the program. Way too far right now to tell, a lot can and will happen from now til then, and we need to see who's available for those specific fixtures, but nevertheless I'll say this for the Cardiff one: those damn Springboks WILL at some point find themselves trailing to an enraged Welsh side and will eventually edge them just at the end. It's been happening for the past decade, why stop now, eh ?
For Eng and Ire, I've no particular comment as of right now..other than I think they'll both be very hard to win for SA, and would envision very tight affairs.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'll add links later on as I am posting from my phone (cable thieves have struck again).

We are touring with a squad of 36 and wwill be without our European players for the lastffixture against Wales as the match falls outside of the IRB test window.
Also interesting to note that all of Matfield, DE Allende, Hendricks and Serfontein have been added as centrally contracted players.

 

[Peat]

Update the list in the first post stormer? Who's likely to be available, who's not, who's improved their position? And add some backs!

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'll add links later on as I am posting from my phone (cable thieves have struck again).

We are touring with a squad of 36 and wwill be without our European players for the lastffixture against Wales as the match falls outside of the IRB test window.
Also interesting to note that all of Matfield, DE Allende, Hendricks and Serfontein have been added as centrally contracted players.

They were actually contracted before the start of the Rugby Championship. And Pollard isn't contracted yet as he still has a junior springbok contract which lapses the end of the year.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Here's the current list of contracted players:

The 20 contracted Springboks:

Willem Alberts (loose forward), Marcell Coetzee (loose forward), Damian de Allende (centre/wing), Jean de Villiers (centre), Bismarck du Plessis (hooker), Jannie du Plessis (prop), JJ Engelbrecht (centre/wing), Eben Etzebeth (lock), Cornal Hendricks (wing), Francois Hougaard (scrumhalf), Siya Kolisi (loose forward), Patrick Lambie (flyhalf/fullback), Willie le Roux (fullback/wing), Victor Matfield (lock), Tendai Mtawarira (prop), Coenie Oosthuizen (prop), Jan Serfontein (centre), Adriaan Strauss (hooker), Flip van der Merwe (lock) and Duane Vermeulen (No 8)

4 guys here who hasn't played in the RC at all:
JJ Engelbrecht
Coenie Oosthuizen
Siya Kolisi
Flip v/d Merwe


Also here's the link you were talking about, so no need to add it later.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/No-foreign-Boks-for-Wales-Test-20141006

 

[MojoPin]

They were actually contracted before the start of the Rugby Championship. And Pollard isn't contracted yet as he still has a junior springbok contract which lapses the end of the year.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Here's the current list of contracted players:

The 20 contracted Springboks:

Willem Alberts (loose forward), Marcell Coetzee (loose forward), Damian de Allende (centre/wing), Jean de Villiers (centre), Bismarck du Plessis (hooker), Jannie du Plessis (prop), JJ Engelbrecht (centre/wing), Eben Etzebeth (lock), Cornal Hendricks (wing), Francois Hougaard (scrumhalf), Siya Kolisi (loose forward), Patrick Lambie (flyhalf/fullback), Willie le Roux (fullback/wing), Victor Matfield (lock), Tendai Mtawarira (prop), Coenie Oosthuizen (prop), Jan Serfontein (centre), Adriaan Strauss (hooker), Flip van der Merwe (lock) and Duane Vermeulen (No 8)

4 guys here who hasn't played in the RC at all:
JJ Engelbrecht
Coenie Oosthuizen
Siya Kolisi
Flip v/d Merwe


Also here's the link you were talking about, so no need to add it later.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/No-foreign-Boks-for-Wales-Test-20141006

If it falls outside the window, then I wonder if Wales will be in the same boat - there's quite a chunk of our starting XV that currently ply their trade in England and France. As long as it's a good game I'll be happy, but it would have been good to have a full-strength team trying to right the wrongs of their last encounter!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Update the list in the first post stormer? Who's likely to be available, who's not, who's improved their position? And add some backs!

LOL, will do. Although it'd only be educated guesses for the most part. I'll take some time to see what I can read in the local papers and see if I can't talkl to people who'd know more and get back to it ASAP.

I'll add the backs to the OP so long and try and shuffle the players in what I see as the pecking order. I am in two minds whether to cut the list down somewhat.. I'll have a think on it.

Here's the current list of contracted players:

The 20 contracted Springboks:

Willem Alberts (loose forward), Marcell Coetzee (loose forward), Damian de Allende (centre/wing), Jean de Villiers (centre), Bismarck du Plessis (hooker), Jannie du Plessis (prop), JJ Engelbrecht (centre/wing), Eben Etzebeth (lock), Cornal Hendricks (wing), Francois Hougaard (scrumhalf), Siya Kolisi (loose forward), Patrick Lambie (flyhalf/fullback), Willie le Roux (fullback/wing), Victor Matfield (lock), Tendai Mtawarira (prop), Coenie Oosthuizen (prop), Jan Serfontein (centre), Adriaan Strauss (hooker), Flip van der Merwe (lock) and Duane Vermeulen (No 8)

Also here's the link you were talking about, so no need to add it later.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/No-foreign-Boks-for-Wales-Test-20141006

Thanks for clearing it up, Hein. +1. I got a *grimace* 3G dongle from Vodacom. The trouble those damn criminals make you go through!

If it falls outside the window, then I wonder if Wales will be in the same boat - there's quite a chunk of our starting XV that currently ply their trade in England and France. As long as it's a good game I'll be happy, but it would have been good to have a full-strength team trying to right the wrongs of their last encounter!

I know the Welsh contingent in France is not insignificant.

For SA I don't really think it'd actually matter all that much; Habana is an obvious loss but less so than in the past while in the forwards we are quite deep and Morne Steyn and Ruan Pienaar havn't been our best for a while now despite their continued selection implying otherwise. Though someone like Marcel Coetzee would become a key player with Louw unavailable and Brussow being all but dead to HM. Our other openside options are either hybrids or very green. I'd say, assuming all current SA based fit players are available for Wales we'd see something like:

1 T Mtawarira (though I'd want to see another)
2 B du Plessis
3 J du Plessis (assuming Malherbe isn't fit)
4 E Etzebeth
5 V Matfield (assuming our other options are still unavaiable)
6 M Coetzee
7 W Alberts (is set to be avaiable for Novemeber as far as I am aware)
8 D Vermeulen
9 F Hougaard
10 H Pollard
11 C Hendricks
12 J de Villiers (c)
13 J Serfontein
14 JP Petersen
15 W le Roux

16 M van der Merwe
17 A Strauss
18 L de Jager
19 Burger / Mohoje / Whiteley / it's anybodies guess really
20 C Reinach
21 P Lambie
22 L Mvovo / D de Allende
23 T Nyakane (though I'd want another)

So not too much hassled by the Euro-based players being unavailable unless we pick up a lot of injuries leading up to Wales.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Here's another nice article: http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Big5SportChallenge/Last-Bok-trial-for-Brussow-20140926

So there is a possibility that Brussouw could still feature for the Boks at the EOYT. Depending on injuries and whatever else.

I'm wondering if HM will experiment, or will he look at getting the RWC squad for next year some valuable game time in the same conditions next year's world cup.

Guys like Pollard, Mohoje, De Allende, Reinach and to a lesser extent, Serfontein hasn't played in the NH with the Boks. I think that HM has now an idea of the squad he want for the WC and it's about getting the playing style more rounded. We have seen this year that there are 2 playing styles that HM has gone with. The dreaded Kick-Chase game and the more attractive running game. With the conditions in NH being less favourable, I'm interested to see if HM will use a 3rd option, or will he try to blend those first 2 styles to a more complete game...

If we look at the players more recently used, it's also interesting to see that there are a lot less NH-based players in the squad. Take the last match against NZ for example, it was only the 2 Toulon guys that was in the Match 23, Bryan Habana and Bakkies Botha.

 

[Peat]

It's possible Ulster would release Pienaar (and General Franco if required) for the out of window test anyway. Nothing to stop us and generally we've been supportive of our boks.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's possible Ulster would release Pienaar (and General Franco if required) for the out of window test anyway. Nothing to stop us and generally we've been supportive of our boks.

Oh Come on!! Give us a break just once! DON'T release Pienaar!

 

[Peat]

Oh Come on!! Give us a break just once! DON'T release Pienaar!

Silence! Obey your Meyerian Overlord and love St Ruan!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Haha.

I want to make another suggestion for the EOYT:

Let Heyneke Meyer sing the South African National Anthem instead of hiring a proffessional to stuff it up...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

FdP is confirmed out. It's probably too much to hope for that Pienaar won't form part of the squad but I trust/hope/pray Hougaard and Reinach would be the prefered candidates.

Considering what that the injury list probably won't look a lot different in 1 month's time what I'd like ITO a matchdday 23 (we can only afford to make rotations for Italy if any);

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Marcel van der Merwe
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Victor Matfield
6 Marcell Coetzee
7 Willem Alberts
8 Duane Vermeulen
9 Francois Hougaard
10 Handre Pollard
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Jan Serfontein
14 Cornal Hendricks*
15 Willie le Roux

16 Trevor Nyakane
17 Adriaan Strauss
18 Lood de Jager
19 Francois Louw
20 Cobus Reinach
21 Pat Lambie
22 JP Petersen*
23 Julian Redelinghuys

I am tempted to start JPP ahead of Hendricks. JdV and Hendricks along with Jannie du Plessis have placed us under pressure in terms of them making mistakes on defense. I expect less open running from us in Europe if HM continues last year's trend of 'tightening up' in November. That'd suit JPP but I'll give hendricks the benefit of the doubt for test 1 and see how he holds up. HM is also a fan of consistency in selection so I think he'd go the same route. I'd bring Mvovo in at 22 for wing/Fb cover so Lambie can focus on just covering 10. I'd drop JdP and call up Redelinghuys while malherbe is out for 2014. What Marcel van der Merwe lacks ITO not being dominant at the scrum- though he can certainly hold his own- he makes up for in general play.

Actually, I'm quite surprised how much my preferences align with what we can probably expect from HM. It'll get interesting though when the likes of PSdT, Malherbe, A Botha, FdP and JF get fit again; I expect they'll have to earn their starting jerseys off the bench all of them.

 

[SomeOke]

Always a tough tour, and particularly relevant considering where the WC is. I would kill to see de Jongh get some game time, I don't even think it's WP bias, JDV and Jan are great but they don't have the x-factor that Juan brings, he has been quiet in the past but with our new flatter game plan I really feel like he could cut other teams apart. Defensively I think he could be just as good as Serf as well, ultimately our best bet may even be Serf at 12 and Juan at 13 but we can't really drop our captain.

Elsewhere our props probably need some competition but I don't think Malherbe, Marcel and Nkanye are quite ready, hopefully they all get some good game time to develop in SR but for now I'm happy with Beast and JdP for the EotY tests. Eben and Lood aren't in the best form but their more physical style may actually work out better in the North. I'm happy with Victor starting, I just hope he can maintain form until the WC because as things stand, we need him.
Loose trio needs very little work although I'm undecided on who is the better option between Marcel and Willem.

Hougie please keep your form!
For once at fly-half we seem OK with Pollard and Lambie both looking hungry, hopefully they can both build on their relatively good run of form.
I've mentioned my thoughts on the centres (although it's really nitpicking as I'm not really that unhappy with JDV and Serf), and outside backs are good although Habana will need to show he's still up for it over the next year.

It will be interesting, the NH tour has a habit of disappointing me, and making me feel like we've taking a step backwards. It may be due to the fact that it's at the tail end of a very long season, but so is the world cup!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Always a tough tour, and particularly relevant considering where the WC is. I would kill to see de Jongh get some game time, I don't even think it's WP bias, JDV and Jan are great but they don't have the x-factor that Juan brings, he has been quiet in the past but with our new flatter game plan I really feel like he could cut other teams apart. Defensively I think he could be just as good as Serf as well, ultimately our best bet may even be Serf at 12 and Juan at 13 but we can't really drop our captain.

Elsewhere our props probably need some competition but I don't think Malherbe, Marcel and Nkanye are quite ready, hopefully they all get some good game time to develop in SR but for now I'm happy with Beast and JdP for the EotY tests. Eben and Lood aren't in the best form but their more physical style may actually work out better in the North. I'm happy with Victor starting, I just hope he can maintain form until the WC because as things stand, we need him.
Loose trio needs very little work although I'm undecided on who is the better option between Marcel and Willem.

Hougie please keep your form!
For once at fly-half we seem OK with Pollard and Lambie both looking hungry, hopefully they can both build on their relatively good run of form.
I've mentioned my thoughts on the centres (although it's really nitpicking as I'm not really that unhappy with JDV and Serf), and outside backs are good although Habana will need to show he's still up for it over the next year.

It will be interesting, the NH tour has a habit of disappointing me, and making me feel like we've taking a step backwards. It may be due to the fact that it's at the tail end of a very long season, but so is the world cup!

Yes we can drop our Captain. He has been the worst performer IMHO in our backline. And by saying this I mean that the rest has been playing better.

Did any of you guys see Handre Pollard's interview after the AB's game? He is our future captain! He has a good head on his shoulder, sure of himself and very humble.

As for the EOYT, I would like to see a few Currie Cup performers go along, even if they don't get playing time. Perhaps take an extra tighthead prop (or 3) along to get a feel for the conditions and see who performs better. i don't think we need to take an extra loose forward or scrumhalf. Maybe an extra winger? Rosko Specman would be my pick. And I think an extra fullback, Jesse Kriel, SP Marais or Jaco Taute should tag along too...